MP Burn for Summoners

This needs to be somehow changed. If someone just built a summoner straight up tank with HLT and def, they could completely wreck a team just by standing around all the action and draining all their MP within 10 seconds. I don't have any particularly good ideas since I'm not too familiar with the summoner's other skills, but this one is definitely problematic.

Since summoners almost literally have nothing else in pvp. I don't see a point in nerfing MP Burn, unless they reduce all the cast times of the summoners spells to instant speed :|

Since summoners almost literally have nothing else in pvp. I don't see a point in nerfing MP Burn, unless they reduce all the cast times of the summoners spells to instant speed :|

So it's not a problem that one person can completely make all their opponents useless?

So it's not a problem that one person can completely make all their opponents useless?

make them useless then what? Use 2second cast time skills to kill them? Summoners have to rely on their team mates to do any damage from what I've seen so far. If you're having a problem with MP burn stack more int and play hit and run. If you're getting caught by magnet then do in it's range. :|

Edited by StormHaven, 22 October 2011 - 01:36 PM.

make them useless then what? Use 2second cast time skills to kill them? Summoners have to rely on their team mates to do any damage from what I've seen so far. If you're having a problem with MP burn stack more int and play hit and run. If you're getting caught by magnet then do in it's range. :|

You make it sound that the summoner has no teammates. Having zero MP just makes you an easy kill for the other team. Combined with the AoE slow they have, it makes it really difficult to get out since you can't dash without MP. Summoners play an extremely strong support role in a team with their current skill set -- much stronger than they should.

Stacking int is not a solution when their MP burn is based on a percent of your max MP. If it gets changed to a percent of current MP, it might be slightly better, but not really sure on how that'll work out.

Edited by Yurai, 22 October 2011 - 01:41 PM.

I agree MP burn is overpowered, but all of our other skills are underpowered.

I do hope they balance MP burn, but, they also need to give us something else to do in PVP, other than just "get close and don't die."

I think the biggest problem with the MP burn is its *huge* AoE. Even most long-distance attacks in the game don't put you out of range of the burn's AoE, meaning that it's almost impossible to attack a summoner without sacrificing half or all of your MP. It might not be so bad if you could just keep your distance and whittle away at them, but that's pretty difficult or impossible for most classes with the skill's current range.

The 10% per second rate is OP, too, so maybe you could cut that to a lower rate.

An alternative would be to make MP burn a skill with a short duration and a slightly long CD (say, 10 s duration and 30 s cooldown). That way, they would still be able to use the skill to decimate opponents, but it would have to be a tactical thing, giving opponents a chance in between burns to attack and try to eliminate the summoner before they can throw up the burn again.

I agree that cast times for summoners seem a bit long, too, although TBH I haven't dabbled with them much. Maybe shave .5 seconds off of all of the longer cast times? Not sure how about cast times beyond the first and second job skills, so I can't say for sure what I feel would be fair.

I agree MP burn is overpowered, but all of our other skills are underpowered.

I do hope they balance MP burn, but, they also need to give us something else to do in PVP, other than just "get close and don't die."

I can agree with that. IMO, the design behind the summoning system really isn't that great. Perhaps they can do something like RO where the homunculus(?) can have user coded AI scripts so that the player can get a play style more suited for them.

I'm not sure about the higher level summoner skills, either, but the lower level ones do have some pretty ridiculous cast times on them.

Edited by Yurai, 23 October 2011 - 11:02 AM.

Just a suggestion but, would it be better if this skill worked a bit like Mesmerize for Hunters and Revenge for Knights? As in like, give it a certain percentage of success rate and a certain percentage of MP burned based or not based on the damage dealt by the opponent. Or would that make it worse?

A flat minus MP rather than % MP burn could would blow through low INT characters, the best suggestion would be to lower the aoe range of the skill

A flat minus MP rather than % MP burn could would blow through low INT characters, the best suggestion would be to lower the aoe range of the skill

Then why did you suggest to stack INT in your first post? You change your mind too much.

Then why did you suggest to stack INT in your first post? You change your mind too much.

I'm not going against my first post about stacking int. I still think ppl should just stack more int to help the burn not be as bad/ It may be % MP burn but if you have 15k mp its not gonna hurt you as much as someone with lets say 9k mp.

Edited by StormHaven, 23 October 2011 - 12:03 PM.

I'm not going against my first post about stacking int. I still think ppl should just stack more int to help the burn not be as bad/ It may be % MP burn but if you have 15k mp its not gonna hurt you as much as someone with lets say 9k mp.

How does that matter at all if you're going to be OOM in 10 seconds regardless?

How does that matter at all if you're going to be OOM in 10 seconds regardless?

If you're gonna stand in the AoE range for 10 straight seconds you've got bigger problems....

Uhm I have practically 15k mp. It hurts you just the same.

And you know it affects you even if the summoner is in the air or say... their teammate has you locked down.

No moe mp

If you're gonna stand in the AoE range for 10 straight seconds you've got bigger problems....

I'm sorry what? This logic is bad awful. If I can make you *entirely* useless within 10 seconds of you STANDING there we've got problems. It doesn't have to be straight seconds either. 5 seconds alone is 50% of your mp. I'd venture to say that 95% of all offense skills are within mp burn's range as well.

Guess it's just me then I haven't had any problems running out of mana in group pvp with summoners and lockers in it. 11kmp np?
key to avoiding mp burn in group pvp: stay away from magnet and go after the summoner first.

Edited by StormHaven, 23 October 2011 - 01:53 PM.

Guess it's just me then I haven't had any problems running out of mana in group pvp with summoners and lockers in it. 11kmp np?

Did you make any direct attacks on the summoner? Then again, pf should have the least problems with summoner. Speed+ set and forget skills.

11kmp np?

Stacking int is not a solution when their MP burn is based on a percent of your max MP. If it gets changed to a percent of current MP, it might be slightly better, but not really sure on how that'll work out.

I'm guessing he's saying that because he has such high mp, 20% is really all he needs or something. I'm not debating this with anyone anymore. It needs a nerf, cast times need to be slashed.

Edited by Jumpluffspore, 23 October 2011 - 01:56 PM.

Ok since it's not getting through. If one person has $10 and another person has $20 and you take away 10% of their money, who still has more money?

Ok since it's not getting through. If one person has $10 and another person has $20 and you take away 10% of their money, who still has more money?

In ten seconds you lose all of your money anyways.

In ten seconds you lose all of your money anyways.

I was JUST going to post that exact sentence, I hate you.

That is a good point, Storm. 10% of a higher MP amount will take away a much smaller chunk. This would be fine if the effect wasn't a continuous one. I think the point Yurai and the others are making is that, while it does indeed take away a percentage, it's not what's taken away per second, but rather that all of your MP is virtually gone in an instant rather than gradually. If you get knocked down a single time and a Summoner comes near, you will have no MP. There is an absolutely miniscule threshold of time between Full MP to No MP when dealing with Mana Burn.

That is a good point, Storm. 10% of a higher MP amount will take away a much smaller chunk. This would be fine if the effect wasn't a continuous one. I think the point Yurai and the others are making is that, while it does indeed take away a percentage, it's not what's taken away per second, but rather that all of your MP is virtually gone in an instant rather than gradually. If you get knocked down a single time and a Summoner comes near, you will have no MP. There is an absolutely miniscule threshold of time between Full MP to No MP when dealing with Mana Burn.

A response from you that isn't sarcastic or giggle-inducing. I believe this Prinz is broken.