Re-done Summoner Skill build

So I hit level 75 and did a few more changes to my skills. I just like to get some feed back from others whether they play summoner class or not. So pretty much my skills are built around pvp and pve. http://irowiki.org/~...103321550113533
So please comment, both negative and positive comments are accepted ^^

are u aiming for a pvp build or pve?

Well comment on it seperately, Like problems with it pve-wise and problems with it pvp-wise.

pvp-wise...get rid of mana burn, its cheap.....what moves do u use in pvp?

Edited by JustinLe, 30 November 2011 - 09:47 PM.

Er... mana burn definately is a must for higher level pvp, plus most people will just hit a shaman into the air which will cause mana to not affect them anyway. But for pvp my main catch is rolling stone, then that will be followed be spike wave or mega spike wave. Then spell trap to hold them in place, followed by another rolling stone. Impact pressure is used to push enemies away and homing shot/ air smash is used as filler damage till galgon stuns the opponent or till a teammate locks the enemy.

Er... mana burn definately is a must for higher level pvp, plus most people will just hit a shaman into the air which will cause mana to not affect them anyway. But for pvp my main catch is rolling stone, then that will be followed be spike wave or mega spike wave. Then spell trap to hold them in place, followed by another rolling stone. Impact pressure is used to push enemies away and homing shot/ air smash is used as filler damage till galgon stuns the opponent or till a teammate locks the enemy.

I say get rid of spell trap and spike wave.....the opponent can still attack and even get out of spell trap with certain moves like burrow or somthing or high movespeed. Spike wave or mega spike wave takes to long to cast....2 secs if i recall...and takes a Huge load of sp which can be better invested into new skills probably when shamans get their fourth job skills

Yea, I've been curious at what skills we get for our 4th job change. But I think we won't be getting them anytime soon. I was also dissappointed by our cp sets... but for spell trap and spike wave, in 1v1 they have their uses. I mostly use them to set up as traps to position oppenents to a different area where Im setting up my main catch( rolling stone). They may use up sp but without those skills I feel very limited in what I can do in terms of offense... But yea, I've been keeping my last reset scroll for the 4th job change skills >.< I thought they would be coming in this patch.

While we're discussing shaman stuff, I was wondering what your doing with your gear? I really have no idea where to go with my gear... My original thought was movement speed, however, I feel we lose out on aim since( to my knowledge) none of our sets offer movement speed as an option.

Yea, I've been curious at what skills we get for our 4th job change. But I think we won't be getting them anytime soon. I was also dissappointed by our cp sets... but for spell trap and spike wave, in 1v1 they have their uses. I mostly use them to set up as traps to position oppenents to a different area where Im setting up my main catch( rolling stone). They may use up sp but without those skills I feel very limited in what I can do in terms of offense... But yea, I've been keeping my last reset scroll for the 4th job change skills >.< I thought they would be coming in this patch.

While we're discussing shaman stuff, I was wondering what your doing with your gear? I really have no idea where to go with my gear... My original thought was movement speed, however, I feel we lose out on aim since( to my knowledge) none of our sets offer movement speed as an option.

Not really much we can do about movespeed....if u wanna stack mvspeed u can use legend of combo, mutisha shoulders, aram ,lava, verduous accesories. For gear..i think best would be the set from black claw nest..its lv 76 armor i believe and has decent stats

Yea, I think Ill mix the elga set with 3 pieces of chaotic cerberus so I can have crit dmg. Anyways thanks for your input ^^

If you have pride... don't use mana burn. I play as a twin and I refuse to use op skills such as weave, and ghost fighter. Im still debating if infinite kicking as op or not. It is easily dodgeable, but I may be biased like you.

Edit: do you really try to catch ppl with rolling? Long cooldown, and long cast time, plus its easily avoidable.
Edit: (took out advice) I probably shouldn't give advice. The girl that gave u advice earlier would probably kill me. You should try suicide bombing and tell me how it is with your maxed golgon.

Edited by tainguyen, 01 December 2011 - 01:14 AM.

In my opinion Weave is an essential skill for twin fighters, because with weave > Health and evade if used right plus it sets you up for perfect counter attack opportunities. However, I do think that it should be limited in use against the less pvp heavy classes. >.< You'd be surprised at how much you can catch with rolling stone =p Um... I've actually never tried impant unsummon just because I mainly use my summons to heal or in 1v1 my golgon works as my main catch( slow as it may be >.<)

Weave is essential... but using it with breathing, cooldown is reduced by 1.5. In combination with fusion, cooldown is reduced by 2.2 secs. The main problem with this is we have 2 weaves, giving the opponent a small time frame to counter. If you know how to use weave correctly, it is just as bad as parry.... at the same time, our only good catching move is power fist and infinite kicking, which involves a lot of timing and prediction without weave. Twins are cursed!
I see, but its kinda scary missing with rolling... 26 sec cooldown till you can use it again. Also... if you pvp a twin, they are impossible to kill, they can just weave out your locks ~(-3-)~

In my opinion Weave is an essential skill for twin fighters, because with weave > Health and evade if used right plus it sets you up for perfect counter attack opportunities. However, I do think that it should be limited in use against the less pvp heavy classes. >.< You'd be surprised at how much you can catch with rolling stone =p Um... I've actually never tried impant unsummon just because I mainly use my summons to heal or in 1v1 my golgon works as my main catch( slow as it may be >.<)

Theres a difference between essential and cheap....Weave and mana burn are both cheap..100% block is cheap and making ur opponent unable to cast skills cuz they run out of mp is also extremely cheap. If ur going to pvp, at least pvp fairly. And if the only way u can win is by using mana burn or weave then pvp is not the thing for u......A classes weakness doesnt not give an excuss for using cheap op moves

Edited by JustinLe, 01 December 2011 - 11:31 AM.

While what justin said is true, I believe you can pvp very well without mana burn. If you can catch ppl with rolling stone, your in good shape. Catching ppl with rolling stone by itself is pro, and needs timing and ALOT of prediction (1v1). You being able to do that, id hate to see you considered cheap against other ppl (edit: cheap by using mana burn).

Edited by tainguyen, 01 December 2011 - 12:08 PM.

Im not really getting why you call these moves cheap. Weave takes skill to master, yes its 100% block rate but then again fighters a squishy plus thats not the move most people seem to have a problem with. Its like two of their kicking moves where the power was alot. When you compare this to Pally's block its not cheap at all. And yes Ill agree that mana burn is OP right now. However, skilled players don't exactly stand in it for 10 seconds, and as I said before hitting the shaman into the air will take away mana burns affect anyway. <-- This source being from a harle I practice with in 1v1 pvp.

i am god with weave. I pvp a lot so my timing with this is fairly good, as i burrow a lot back in the day. its in a way, more worse than parry if you can execute it correctly instead of spamming it.

As for 10 secs in mana burn... you need to think more about mana burn with other skills. Spell trap, rolling, mega. between these times, the opponent is vurnable and cant move AT ALL (with some exceptions), all you have to do is stand and cast skills as mana QUICKLY depletes them. This makes one catch, GAME OVER.

In order to make mana burn less op, id consider perhaps lessing the radius on mana burn to 1-2 person length away, or changing its effect to increase mana cost for the opponent.

I see where your coming at, i am not the best, but i pvp fine without mana burn, as for twins, i pvp fine without weave. Playing difficulties is just different when you take certain skills out. Take the easy way out? or take the hard way? Go ahead and use mana burn, just make the imbalance in pvp even larger.

Im not really getting why you call these moves cheap. Weave takes skill to master, yes its 100% block rate but then again fighters a squishy plus thats not the move most people seem to have a problem with. Its like two of their kicking moves where the power was alot. When you compare this to Pally's block its not cheap at all. And yes Ill agree that mana burn is OP right now. However, skilled players don't exactly stand in it for 10 seconds, and as I said before hitting the shaman into the air will take away mana burns affect anyway. <-- This source being from a harle I practice with in 1v1 pvp.

This pretty much explains why Mana burn is cheap, as most people agree http://forums.warppo...-for-summoners/

I agree, it takes INSANE SKILLs to use a skill that makes me impervious to any damage at all when im being attacked
And because twins are squishy, they are more than welcome to use a skill that makes them invincible? Sounds VERY logical

Mmm, I believe Storm made an excellent point "If you're gonna stand in the AoE range for 10 straight seconds you've got bigger problems...." But back on topic, it really seems that the only negative aspect of my build would be I wasted sp on mana burn and both spike waves and spell trap. So then what do you guys use as offense in pvp? Im much more curious to hear what you use in team pvp rather than 1v1.

I use spell trap. Spike wave is also good as a combo holder.

Standing in the aoe for 10 secs... if your inside a combo chain, this isn't hard to achieve. Spell trap duration, about 2 secs. Rolling stone duration about 1.3 secs. Mega spike wave, about 2-3 secs.... in between time to caste, .9 sec, 1.1 sec, and 2 sec for cast time. This all adds close to 10 secs. In total, they will be in the aoe for about 6-10 secs, depending on your timing.

Edit: I use a completely different build than you. So far its all experimental, if anything, ask justin for advice.

Edited by tainguyen, 02 December 2011 - 03:11 AM.