Wanderer/Maestro corner

People are overreacting about SR. Yes it's weaker, but I still use it and kill fine with it (of course the mvps I soloed are more difficult now).

i'm going to assume you have a relatively fair amount of agi in your build, like mine. i'm also going to assume that you have an OAB. however, not every wanderer/maestro build has the luxury of having that much agi. simply saying something like people should add agi to their build for leveling, then change it later with reset stones and such, is not a legitimate way to deal with the problem/changes.

i also doubt that a lot of new players would have the luxury of having an OAB either, considering how much it tends to sell for. it's not acceptable to simply say, get the money somehow and buy one, hunt for your own, or just deal with it. i didn't even get my hands on mine until about a month or so ago. with the upcoming 14.1 patch, elven bows should help this problem better with their lower price range, but i'm also suspecting vendors will start increasing the prices on them too. it's kinda stupid to balance a skill around having a single piece of gear, and i think it's fairly backwards to fix most of the skill's glaring problems with future gear updates as well.

Things I like about post balance performers:

Voice Lessons
It now affect more skills like Destruction Song. This is a step in the right direction.

Windmill Rush & Moonlight Serenade
Now that they increase your attack and magic attack formulas directly, they become better in higher damage modifier skills.

Swing Dance
A nice buff that Wanderers desperately needed.

Harmonize
This works better overall now that it is an official debuff. Now we can more easily bring people regular people below 100 in stats and thus affect their status immunity. Worse versus Double Megs, but oh well, it is a GOD item.

Reverberation
Removing the placement limit was a good thing.

Severe Rainstorm
Twelve hits for all 5 levels, nice!

Deep Sleep Lullaby
Nice new graphical effect!

Gloomy Shyness
I'm glad it is more of a de-buff now.

Chorus Skills
On the right path as far as buffing is concerned. Max ability can now be reached with less performers.

Dances with Wargs
Wowsers, nice buff for Rangers. Finally a buff worthy of partying a performer. Pays for the damage reduction of SR IMO.

Song of Destruction
Nice Change to the success rate. I like the flat damage, and it's enough now to let everyone know that they've been debuffed. The cool-down has been lowered as well.

Sinking Melody
Creative new effect. The SP drain is pretty nasty when it succeeds.

Warcry from Beyond
The HP reduction could be pretty nasty here as well.

Things I don't like about post balance performers:

Windmill Rush & Moonlight Serenade
Because Severe Rainstorm always had a pretty low skill mod but hit 12 times, Windmill seems to become less effective hurting Maestros. Not having Windmill always hurt Wanderers when it came to damage dealt.
Windmill and Moonlight are still overshadowed by Striking (even if the Sorcerer only has level 1 of the endow skills). Plus Striking gives CRIT. What's worse is that Striking and Moonlight can stack, but Windmill and Moonlight can't.

Swing Dance
It's still a shame that because Swing Dance and Windmill don't stack, people will still opt for the latter, leaving Wanderers in the dark again, just like with Moonlight.

Echo Song
Still far out gunned by Windmill.

Metallic Sound
I'm still not happy they took away the chaos affect from before iRO got Renewal.
Damage is still way too low if it's meant to be an attack skill.
And if it's not meant to be an attack skill, then the SP drain hasn't changed and still sucks.

Reverberation
Because of the global skill delay the removal of the limit on Reverberations only helps people in strings, which usually leaves Wanderers out...
Damage is still split, which still sucks as much as before because the damage modifier wasn't increased.

Siren's Voice
Wow, 2 second duration on a 150/50 character if you have level 5? 0 duration on a 150/50 character if you have level 4 or less? Worthless.

Death Valley
Still worthless because of the prerequisite of the terrible skill Circling Nature.

Deep Sleep Lullaby
Success rate toned down a bit too much. I know this skill was annoying, but the addition of Lauda Ramus', the refresh rune's, and Lion Howling's removal of the skill in addition to the other Performer skills should have been enough.
Still can't use it in PvM. That is terrible.

Circling Nature
Words can't begin to describe my detest for this skill.
Still can't use it in PvM.

Hundred Spear (Gloomy Shyness)
It sounds SO terrible, that I'm afraid to give Gloomy out for fear that RKs might want to use the skill.
Sucks that you can strip your allies mount with this, but it's not a big complaint.

Chorus Skills
Not far enough. Who's gonna have 7 performers in a party? Seriously...

Dances with Wargs
It takes 6 performers to beat one AB with Sacrament? Really?

Lerard's Dew
Still a silly effect IMO that under performs versus Lutie (though you could stack them).

Sinking Melody
Not that the skill was any good before, but now it's worthless in PvM.

Unlimited Humming Voice
Not usable in siege? Yeah, still blows.

Things I'm unsure about with post balance performers:

Lover's Symphony
I'm curious as to how this will play out for immunity to Frozen and Stone Curse. Maybe it won't at all and will still be useless...

Metallic Sound
I'm anxious to see if that new accessory (I forget the name), will make this skill viable. I know they nerfed the item already on kRO.

Severe Rainstorm
I'm not as upset by the damage nerf as other people (in fact not at all, I welcome it), but the re-use delay is a serious cramp in this skills side considering how poorly it performs outside of PvM.

Dances with Wargs
Does this mean we'll be partying with Rangers or will Rangers just drag two performer slaves? I'd guess the latter.

Warcry from Beyond
Does this reduce monster HP? I haven't tried it.

WoE
I'm curious to see how our role will change. Sinking, Warcry, and Sound of Destruction will probably be the most used skills now, but Sinking and Warcry are so easily countered by enemy performers. We also might make Warg Bite Rangers viable in siege so we may be using a lot of DwW as well. It will be interesting.

Things I'd like to see done:

Voice Lessons
They need to go further and throw VL modifiers into more skills. Especially the Chorus skills.

Windmill Rush & Moonlight Serenade
I think they need to go a bit further with that A and B grouping and split up Maestro and Wanderer solo skills so they can stack. If you're taking a Maestro and Wanderer in your party, you should be allowed to get both plus 1 Chorus skill.

Reverberation
Remove the split damage.

Metallic Sound
Either increase the damage or increase the SP drain.
If not, add some other effect like bleeding (ears) or confuse or something.

Echo Song
The defense bonus needs to be buffed big time to to make it worthwhile compared to Windmill.

Moonlight Serenade
Wanderers need a big buff here. It should be giving Striking like MATK or better.

Dominion Impulse
It's more useful now with unlimited Reverberations, but it needs some other effect. Perhaps a (Voice Lessons * 5)% increase in activated Reverberation damage.
If not, allow this skill to increase the range of activated Reverberation to a larger area like 9x9.

Severe Rainstorm
Lower the re-use delay back to pre-patch levels. Lower the SP cost now that it's weaker.

Song of Despair
Does it affect allies still in PvM. If it does, that needs to change.

Siren's Voice
There needs to be some fixed minimum duration for this skill (Voice Lessons / 2 seconds), and even with 150/50 deductions, each level of the skill should provide at least 0.5 seconds of extra time (that would be 7.5 seconds with VL 10 and level 5). That may seem like an eternity, but with all the AoEs in WoE, Siren's never lasts more than a second or two anyway.

Circling Nature
Allow this to be used in PvM.
Allow some modifier that raises the HP recovery (Voice Lessons, Music Lessons, Instrument/Whip level, anything).
For each monster or enemy player on screen, reduce the SP cost by 4, and take it from them instead (up to 10 enemies for a 0 SP cost).
If you buff it, increase the re-use delay to 30 seconds and lower the duration to around 15.

Death Valley
Reduce the Circling Nature requirement to level 1, unless you do my Circling Nature changes .
Incorporate Voice Lessons into the HP gained formula (HP revived with equals the dead's (maxSP * Voice Lessons)%, for example. Something like this would make us useful in parties with mages.

Deep Sleep Lullaby
Allow use in PvM.
If the success rate is going to stay so low, then remove the chance to Deep Sleep your allies.

Improvised Song
Change activated spell level to 4 + 1 * ( Skill Level learned), not skill level used (therefore, using level 1 if you know level 5 still gives you level 9 of the mage skill). And then:
Change level 1 to pick a random skill between: Fireball, Firewall, Fire Pillar, Thunder Storm, Napalm Beat
Change level 2 to pick a random skill between: Cold Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Fire Bolt, Soul Strike, Napalm Beat
Change level 3 to pick a random skill between: Frost Driver, Jupitel Thunder, Napalm Beat
Change level 4 to pick a random skill between: Lord of Vermillion, Meteor Storm, Storm Gust, Napalm Beat
Change level 5 to pick a random skill between: Water Ball, Safety Wall, Napalm Beat

Lerard's Dew
Change the effect to increase health regained from pots. Make it increase heath recovered from red-white pots by (Voice Lessons / 4)% . It's a perfect way to help balance out potting vs damage dealt in WoE and allow a player to provide that balance instead of flooding the server with yggs or green ale.

Sinking Melody
Find a way for this to be used in PvM. Perhaps a silence effect on monsters since it drains SP?

Unlimited Humming Voice
Let it be used in siege.
Force all performers on the screen to share the same re-use delay.
Increase the re-use delay to the recall time: 5 minutes.

Chorus skills in general
They're almost all improved, but it needs to go further since there's no logical reason to have 7 performers in a party in PvM or in PvP/WoE.
Allow the max effect to be reached at 4 performers (a quartet), or allow the skill to be used with allied performers on screen in WoE.
If is can be used with allied performers in WoE, make them share the re-use delay.
Put the AoE around each performer so that 2 performers 7 cells away will cover a larger area.
Add a Voice Lessons modifier to buff all of these possibly.

Conclusion:
This is basically the list of suggestions I gave last year. kRO has done very little to improve the class (DwW, Sinking, and Warcry are the notable exceptions), and in fact has hurt the class in other ways (making DSL and Siren's Voice worthless). I can't believe it took a year just to get this much...

Edited by Akin, 15 December 2011 - 10:27 AM.

Moar stuff:

Freeze Resistance (Unbarring Octave)

And again the gap against male and female performers gets wider and wider. Now people without marcs/glorious will be frozen, but can't be stunned as always, as the only way for a performer to decrease enemy's stats is with... Harmonize. O_O

Great Echo

Aka "Arrow Vulcan with a bow". It's not fast enough for replace Rainstorm as main damaging skill, and maybe it is not intended to. But five seconds is too high, thinking about the hard setup to cast it. [Yes 2 performers to deal the same damage as a 9x9 Arrow Vulcan]

Edited by asayuu, 15 December 2011 - 11:43 AM.

Excellent summarization there Akin.

I still see many uses though for Maestro in WoE even with the skill nerfs. Not so much for Wanderer now though.

Moar stuff:

Freeze Resistance (Unbarring Octave)

And again the gap against male and female performers gets wider and wider. Now people without marcs/glorious will be frozen, but can't be stunned as always

heh yeah. Though this now reminds me of how things used to be pre-trans WoE, when people had just begun to start to create WoE vit based characters. We were still able to stun and interrupt wizzies but that was about all by then etc, but compared to bards often freezing the entire screen due to people not all having marcs, that was still far less useful (and another example of the male skill vs female skill that has always defined the performer class, and attitudes of the devs when it comes to females in general.)

Edited by lainee, 15 December 2011 - 12:01 PM.

incoming rant and walls of text.

i used to play wiz/hwiz years ago before renewal hit. oh god, being on the receiving end of dazzler spamming drove me crazy. even though it was mostly classes like wizards that were kept in constant stun lock, that was also back when wizzies played a far greater role in WoE, albeit a boring one. so dazzler always had its uses before renewal. i hated that skill back in the day, but it still doesn't deserve to be nerfed to the ground like it is now though. hate how kRO caved in to jRO's demands for stat-based immunities rather than develop a system like diminishing returns.

and i still hate how gravity decided to make 3rd classes basically trans class 2.0 instead of designing 2 new branches for each class.

about the whole difference and gap between male and female performers thing, it serious reminds me of how WoW used to balance paladins and shamans prior to their first expansion. they were supposed to be opposites of one another, but also balanced around each other since they used to be exclusive to one of the two factions. they had similar abilities to one another, but worked using different mechanics (both could buff, but one was more offensive and the other more defensive in playstyle). by the end of WoW's original run, the devs realized that it was getting too hard to balance both classes around that philosophy, and that it was beginning to hold each class back. so when the expansion came out, they allowed each class to exist on each faction and began to treat them as separate entities, instead of two halves of one class.

when kRO was developing 3rd classes and renewal, they seriously should've got rid of the gender restriction on bards and dancers, and made them separate classes. maestros and wanderers could have then been developed with completely different skills in mind, instead of haphazardly trying to make them opposite but equal to one another... even though maestro/wanderer only have a grand total of 6 skills between the two that are unique.

for the sake of example, let's say maestros ended up being the class that buffs and supports allies while standing in the back row. let's then say wanderers would be frontline fighters of a sort, while not doing godly amounts of damage or being tanks, would focus on debuffing large groups of enemies while fighting. doesn't that kind of seem like the purpose of having a skill like slow grace? each class would then have a vastly different array of skills to augment their styles of play, while retaining the ensemble skills and chorus skills to maintain some sense of cohesion between the two. obviously that's a pipe dream at this point, and my example may not be the best idea either, but imagine the possibilities if they were actually designed as separate classes.

So how badly wrecked did Siren's Voice get? I didn't get to do much testing, so I'm still unsure about this one.

And again the gap against male and female performers gets wider and wider. Now people without marcs/glorious will be frozen, but can't be stunned as always, as the only way for a performer to decrease enemy's stats is with... Harmonize.

I still see many uses though for Maestro in WoE even with the skill nerfs. Not so much for Wanderer now though.

incoming rant and walls of text...

Yeah, I completely agree that Wanderer's need something to bring them up to par with Maestros. I honestly think what that thing is in the short term is a split of the Wanderer/Maestro solo skills into skills of their own that can stack.

So instead of:
< Group A >
Swing Dance
Lover's Symphony
Moonlight Serenade
Windmill Rush
Echo Song
Harmonize
<Skills in Group A will not stack; These skills will overwrite each other.>

It would be:
Group A-1 = Swing Dance, Moonlight Serenade, and Lover's Symphony.
Group A-2 = Harmonize, Windmill Rush, and Echo Song.
<Skills in Group A-1 will not stack, skills in Group A-2 will not stack, but skills in Group A-1 will stack with skills in Group A-2>

Dances with Wargs may be good enough now that people would want two performers in the party and if Wanderer's can do something besides GK (inferior to Strings), and besides just being a warm body for DwW (i.e. give ether Swing Dance or Moonlight), all while tossing around Reverbs and Despair and DSL (if they will allow it in PvM). Then we may be able to strike a balance. Better yet, if you do this, give Death Valley to Maestros, and Circling Nature to Wanderers (with the changes to CN I proposed above) as 4th solo skills; now you have a Maestro and Wanderer duo that can work together to provide almost as much support as a priest, while also providing secondary damage. Obviously, in a pick one or the other situation, the Maestro will most often win just because of Strings. I don't really know a way of fixing that without severely nerfing strings. To be honest, when 3rds first came out, I thought they would give the fixed cast reduction skill to Wanderers, but they gave it to ABs instead.

Giving Wanderers a different HP mod and making them more battle to the Maestros support would also be a good option. I could easily see giving way more attack to whips, and increasing their range to 5 cells.

So how badly wrecked did Siren's Voice get? I didn't get to do much testing, so I'm still unsure about this one.

I haven't tested it myself, but if the formula for the duration is correct, level 5 provides a 2 second duration, and levels 1-4 provide a 0 (yes zero) second duration on characters that are 150/50. If this is true then it's basically only good for PvM.

Edited by Akin, 15 December 2011 - 05:49 PM.

What`s your opinion to make Gypsy Kiss be more effecient? IMHO they`re should increase SP cost of most skills across the 3rd job class board. All classes should feel SP limitations as Gravity made this with Gunslinger class(probably only class that require not only Int and Magnificat, but Gypsy kiss to not to forced sit every few minutes of active skillspam Lvling and PvP).

That might not be a bad idea actually. It reminds me of the synergy people talked about when Renewal hit, by providing party bonuses based on the diversity of the party.

GK is fine as it is i think, but the problem is that it's about the only skill a dancer has that everyone can gain a clear benefit from. meanwhile, bards have strings and IR (if they party with agi classes). Slow Grace could use a slight buff to make it feasible for PvM use, and i think that could be achieved by making it reduce flee in addition to its normal effect.

@Akin
i think a good way to make dancers more desirable for parties without nerfing strings, is to rework certain skills like Focus Ballet. if Slow Grace was actually buffed to add a flee reduction, the effects of current Focus Ballet would become redundant, and i don't believe people grab the skill anyways... So instead, rework Focus Ballet to work like a mini AoE lex, but obviously not as powerful. even a 1.5x damage boost would be too powerful i think, but maybe something like a 1.2-1.3x damage boost in either a 3x3 or 5x5 area. the concept i'm running is a bit rough, but it's a start at least.

a few other skills from the bard/dancer tree should be looked at. Both Unchained Serenade and Hip Shaker are the prerequisites to each class' performance skills, but outside of that, has no uses anymore that i can think of. Both skills could be reworked to have a base effect of 1/2/3/4/5% damage to HP or SP, respectively. nothing too spectacular, considering each effect occurs every 3 seconds, but that kind of change would add extra utility and would still be an improvement over their current effects. Perfect Tablature is another skill that should probably be looked at, but i can't think of anything atm.

About Focus Ballet: Let it be Ranged Damage increaser for Performers, Rangers, MADO Mechanics and Gunslingers - let it do (1*Skillpoints of Focus Ballet+(Dance lessons)/2+Dex/10)% Ranged damage increase.
About Slow Grace: Let it reduce normal attack damage of monsters(including Boss protocol, but not MvP) in the PvM by (1.5*Skillpoints of Slow Grace+Dance Lessons+Agi/10)% damage reduction.

I just want Severe Rainstorm back to the formula it had before... Sure I'm still able to kill but soloing now is impossible. I HAVE to have a healer with me now.

I haven't tested it myself, but if the formula for the duration is correct, level 5 provides a 2 second duration, and levels 1-4 provide a 0 (yes zero) second duration on characters that are 150/50. If this is true then it's basically only good for PvM.

That's unfortunate.

Thanks Akin.

I`m thinking that Swing Dance of Wanderers should provide an unique bonus to party, like Bard`s Magic Strings, let`s say this skill will be only skill in the game that cut off up to half of other skills Reuse delay.

Edited by Lucentos, 16 December 2011 - 04:08 AM.

lol I think I'd rather see strings lose it's ability to remove global cast delays so it would only reduce cast times. Then all delays and cool downs can be re-adjusted with that in mind for dps.

now that Swing Dance has been fixed, it's effect doesn't need to be changed. i would like to see a slight tweak in the skill though, to make it stack with other aspd increasing skills. this would make the skill a universal buff that everyone could gain benefit from (gain benefit meaning it affects their aspd, not necessarily that they can make good use of it). currently, the only classes i can think of that could gain a benefit and make use of the skill's effect are GXs, SCs, Battle ABs, Rangers, battle sorcs?

to prevent the classes with buffs such as Two-Hand Quicken from hitting 193 aspd that easily, a clause could be added to Swing Dance's formula that gives only x% of its effect to targets that have those skills learned.

i also support breaking wanderer and maestro skills down into their own buff groupings. that way, each class could actually combine their skills and work together instead of fighting with each other over which skills to use. i thought that was supposed to be a point of the bard/dancer team?

edit: it just suddenly occurred to me that bards have IR (lol i even mentioned it earlier...). that means they can cover the role that Swing Dance plays, though in a more cumbersome manner. good god, talk about undercutting the abilities of wanderers even further...

Edited by ultra39, 16 December 2011 - 09:52 AM.

@Akin
i think a good way to make dancers more desirable for parties without nerfing strings, is to rework certain skills like Focus Ballet. if Slow Grace was actually buffed to add a flee reduction, the effects of current Focus Ballet would become redundant, and i don't believe people grab the skill anyways... So instead, rework Focus Ballet to work like a mini AoE lex, but obviously not as powerful. even a 1.5x damage boost would be too powerful i think, but maybe something like a 1.2-1.3x damage boost in either a 3x3 or 5x5 area. the concept i'm running is a bit rough, but it's a start at least.

a few other skills from the bard/dancer tree should be looked at. Both Unchained Serenade and Hip Shaker are the prerequisites to each class' performance skills, but outside of that, has no uses anymore that i can think of. Both skills could be reworked to have a base effect of 1/2/3/4/5% damage to HP or SP, respectively. nothing too spectacular, considering each effect occurs every 3 seconds, but that kind of change would add extra utility and would still be an improvement over their current effects. Perfect Tablature is another skill that should probably be looked at, but i can't think of anything atm.

Well if they will finally let us use DSL in PvM, then we'll have our 1.5x lex Personally though, I think the answer could be simply increasing the HIT and FLEE of monsters to the point where having Focus Ballet or Perfect Tablature would be a benefit to the party. This game is really lacking when it comes to challenge in PvM as it is.

a boost to monster hit and flee could be nice, but it'd have to be done in a tasteful manner. the boosts couldn't be too great to where Focus Ballet and/or Perfect Tablature should be absolutely required. nobody likes to see a bunch of misses going off of their attacks, and it'd be rather unjustified if they bothered to grab dex. now the people who run minimal dex builds, it'd be perfectly fine to make them suffer consequences. are there any classes that still run those 30-40 base dex builds like in pre-renewal? anyway, both skills could also still end up being ignored, due to the existence of a few skills that never miss. people would probably fall back on those skills, and Perfect Tablature still wouldn't help anyone unless they already had the agi/flee/p.dodge to begin with.

the more i think about it, the more i'm liking the idea of changing Focus Ballet into a mini AoE lex. if wanderers were given an HP boost and made to be more like battle debuffers, having a constant 1.2x damage increase would provide a nice boost to a party's damage output; skills that hit multiple separate hits and AoE skills would definitely benefit the most from this. it shouldn't be that unbalanced either, especially since it'd require putting oneself in harm's way.

overall benefits i'm seeing from this kind of a change:
- could make people drop the complaining about rainstorm's new damage (though the solo crowd still wouldn't be appeased).
- could make wanderers a viable choice for end-game parties, especially those who like to min-max everything.
- i'm thinking wanderer gameplay would become more dynamic than what it currently is.

as for Perfect Tablature, i'm leaning towards it should be changed to something like Blinding Mist, where it could allow the "dodging" of skills. not trying to muscle in on the territory of scholars/sorcs here, but Perfect Tablature's effects aren't exactly desirable for end-game stuff like bio3, PvP, WoE, etc., right? as long as its effect would only be a chance to "dodge" single-target skills, and at a much lower rate than Blinding Mist, i think Perfect Tablature's viability would increase while remaining similar in concept to what it originally was, and all without pissing off the scholar/sorc crowd.

a boost to monster hit and flee could be nice, but it'd have to be done in a tasteful manner. the boosts couldn't be too great to where Focus Ballet and/or Perfect Tablature should be absolutely required. nobody likes to see a bunch of misses going off of their attacks, and it'd be rather unjustified if they bothered to grab dex. now the people who run minimal dex builds, it'd be perfectly fine to make them suffer consequences. are there any classes that still run those 30-40 base dex builds like in pre-renewal? anyway, both skills could also still end up being ignored, due to the existence of a few skills that never miss. people would probably fall back on those skills, and Perfect Tablature still wouldn't help anyone unless they already had the agi/flee/p.dodge to begin with.

the more i think about it, the more i'm liking the idea of changing Focus Ballet into a mini AoE lex. if wanderers were given an HP boost and made to be more like battle debuffers, having a constant 1.2x damage increase would provide a nice boost to a party's damage output; skills that hit multiple separate hits and AoE skills would definitely benefit the most from this. it shouldn't be that unbalanced either, especially since it'd require putting oneself in harm's way.

overall benefits i'm seeing from this kind of a change:
- could make people drop the complaining about rainstorm's new damage (though the solo crowd still wouldn't be appeased).
- could make wanderers a viable choice for end-game parties, especially those who like to min-max everything.
- i'm thinking wanderer gameplay would become more dynamic than what it currently is.

as for Perfect Tablature, i'm leaning towards it should be changed to something like Blinding Mist, where it could allow the "dodging" of skills. not trying to muscle in on the territory of scholars/sorcs here, but Perfect Tablature's effects aren't exactly desirable for end-game stuff like bio3, PvP, WoE, etc., right? as long as its effect would only be a chance to "dodge" single-target skills, and at a much lower rate than Blinding Mist, i think Perfect Tablature's viability would increase while remaining similar in concept to what it originally was, and all without pissing off the scholar/sorc crowd.

So Focus Ballet should give all enemies in the range of dance +(SkillLvl + DanceLessons/2 + Dex/10)% damage and Perfect Trablature should give (SkillLvl + MusicLessons + Agi/10)% chance to avoid singletarget attack?

something like that, more or less i guess. those formulas look pretty good. Perfect Tab could probably use a LUK component somewhere though. while i would love to have changes like these, i'm still not sure how the majority of the community would view them; too OP? just a little game breaking? still not useful enough? etc.

each skill should also have special clauses in their formulas and effects to prevent them from becoming too unbalancing.
things such as:
- Focus Ballet's damage boost wouldn't be able to stack with others, such as Lex Aeterna, Deep Sleep effect, etc. Would have lower priority than either effect.
- Focus Ballet's damage increase would be capped at a maximum of 20/25/30%, depending on which value most people think would be balanced.
- Perfect Tablature's effect will not stack with Blinding Mist. If allowed to work in conjunction, each skill's "dodge" chance would be calculated separately per attack.
- Perfect Tablature's effect will also be capped at a maximum of 50% (i'd see only an extreme AGI/LUK build being able to reach this cap).
- Both skills only affect a 5x5 cell area instead of 7x7 like the other solo performance skills.

something like that, more or less i guess. those formulas look pretty good. Perfect Tab could probably use a LUK component somewhere though. while i would love to have changes like these, i'm still not sure how the majority of the community would view them; too OP? just a little game breaking? still not useful enough? etc.

each skill should also have special clauses in their formulas and effects to prevent them from becoming too unbalancing.
things such as:
- Focus Ballet's damage boost wouldn't be able to stack with others, such as Lex Aeterna, Deep Sleep effect, etc. Would have lower priority than either effect.
- Focus Ballet's damage increase would be capped at a maximum of 20/25/30%, depending on which value most people think would be balanced.
- Perfect Tablature's effect will not stack with Blinding Mist. If allowed to work in conjunction, each skill's "dodge" chance would be calculated separately per attack.
- Perfect Tablature's effect will also be capped at a maximum of 50% (i'd see only an extreme AGI/LUK build being able to reach this cap).
- Both skills only affect a 5x5 cell area instead of 7x7 like the other solo performance skills.

I`m thinking that only 30% damage limitation for Focus Ballet and 50% dodge for Perfect Trablature will be sufficient.
By the way i thinking that Sound of Destruction should remove 2nd job performance effects from enemy players completely, no more Magic Strings postcast effect should remain after Sound of Destruction.

WoEd last night, to me it didn't seem like deep sleep affect anybody when i used it. I was at a loss of what to even do with my wanderer anymore.
i didn't get much chance to try anything else out. Song of despair seemed to work part of the time, same as before. Sirens voice didn't last too long. Swing dance, I didn't see much of the results, but is it just me or does the song not last quite as long?

I want to see Hermod's Rod working again D:

OH COME ON WE HAVE A PORTABLE GTB BUT IT SEEMS WE CAN'T USE IT DUE TO HARD REQUIREMENTS D:

Yes hermod is the worst skill a performer can ever have. IT'S WORSE THAN CIRCLE OF NATURE!

Mechanics are complaining about their Neutral Barrier "nerf", which does not work with magic anymore. Is that a open gap we can request to make Hermod work properly again and act as a "magic neutral barrier"? [and of course, remove all the bad things and requirements, neutral barrier does not have anything except requiring the barrier builder thing and fuel. No full dispells, no skill block only for party members, no portal requirement, no restrict only to WOE castles IN WOE TIMES... Well you got it]

Also "cap". This is a relative term. As the bard/dancer solos are affected by stats, the "cap" would be considered "how much reduced with skill 10, lessons 10 and stat on 150"

This "added damage" function of Focus Ballet could be something like Windmill Rush [and Moonlight Serenade] did pre-patch, and affect all classes, why not? 30% on GoH's mod would push it to "only" 5030%. Affecting enemies would convert the skill to a renewal-Kaite clone, but with 30% instead of 400%. A good debuff but 30% is too few if it works this way. 100% would be acceptable. It would not double, only add 100% to the mod. The GoH would go to 5100%.

And for Perfect Tablature... OP. Blinding Mist and Magnetic Earth were not supposed to stack for some reason. Think about 50% chance to dodge any single-target skill when Magnetic Earth already render "all" the AOEs useless.

35% "LUK" cap may be enough. Few people would really push LUK to 150 to have that much effect.

But I liked both ideas.

Lutie should heal more overtime, or even heal 5x more in targets affected by Circle of Nature, making the skill useful for something~~~~~

by cap, i meant the maximum value the effect could attain. like with Lucentos' example formula for this new Focus Ballet, let's assume the wanderer had a total dex of 300. Focus Ballet should then make all targets take 45% additional damage, but because of the cap, it would still only be 30%. assuming 1 dex, targets would still take 15% additional damage. as for how the skill would work, it'd be a damage multiplier. the 30% additional damage translates to all targets in range receiving 1.3x more damage than normal (essentially throwing an effect like Lex Aeterna on targets for as long as they remain within Focus Ballet, but never stacking with Lex Aeterna). it's for that reason why i'm still considering whether or not this would make it OP, and personally, still leaning towards a 20% (1.2x damage multiplier) cap instead.


Perfect Tablature
(SkillLvl + MusicLessons + Agi/10 + Luk/10)% <- (added a luk component to Lucentos' formula)
as for Perfect Tab, the maestro could only have it give a 50% dodge chance if they grabbed a total of 150 agi and 150 luk, making the build so specialized that this would probably be the only thing it could do (probably would die very easily too, unless it was a 120/120/80 build). no matter how much more they could possibly increase their stats, the dodge chance would never exceed that 50%. the cap could be lowered, but i kinda like having the possibility of being able to get it that high if someone wanted to make that kind of an extreme build. on a more realistic build, the skill would fall under granting only around 20-30% chance to dodge. Blinding Mist is still a 75% chance too, right? as long as the two could never stack (either: 75% + 30% = 105% -or- 75% * 30% = 97.5%), it doesn't sound that OP... in theory at least.


Hermod's Rod... i almost forgot this skill even existed. i think it'd be fair to fix the skill and let it fill the gap that Neutral Barrier left behind. if not, at least just remove it from the skill list at this point.

By the way easy fix to make Wanderers more useful will be make Swing Dance affect Aftercast delay, like Magic Strings. This will bring both genders in the almost same position about usefulness in PvM, MvP, PvP and WoE.