Mini Valks #3

Those mini valks would never be FFA. If it does, it would cause huge uproar and people will qq more to get it change back.

Please explain why you feel this way, or you are contributing absolutely nothing to this thread.

Let's try this again. I will attempt to remove all personal factors and bias from this post, and leave only the opposing arguments. I fully intend to keep posting this until it is answerered, once and for all, by Heimdallr, Oda, or Corvus.

The reason I refuse to send in a ticket is because
1: It will not get answered by one of the three people above
2: It will not be answered fully if not by one of the three people above
3: It will not be posted here, on the forum, for everyone to see the answer, regardless of what it may be.

The Debate: Mini Valks can or cannot be competed for.

Definition of competition:
Opposing players attempting to do whatever possible in order to obtain loot rights to the monster. Competition is not to be confused with Skill abuse.

Definition of loot rights:
The ability to obtain the loot before another player
Things that factor into obtaining loot rights: Taking damage from and dealing damage to the monster, and obtaining the first hit. If you are dead when the monster dies and would have had loot rights, the next in line gets them.

Definition of Skill abuse:
Anything intentionally done to prevent the opposing competitor from being able to deal damage to the monster.
Examples of this are Pnuemas to block Acid Bomb, Safety Wall for Gfist, Healing the monster, And many other tricks too numerous to list.

The Argument:

Against Competition/"KillStealing"
1: Competition is only for MvPs
2: Mini Valks are not MvPs
I'm kinda tired and think that is it. Let me know if I missed something and I will gladly add it.

For Competition
1: 100 Valhalla's Flower are required to make the God item Brynhild.
1.1: Valhalla's Flower can only be obtained (Excluding buying from Players) from:
1.11: Valk Randgris (8 Hour Spawn)
1.12: Mini valk (2 Spawns every 1.5-2 Hours)
1.13: Endless Tower Mini Valks (1 Per Instance)
1.14: Endless Tower Mini Valk set 1 (5 Per Instance)
1.15: Endless Tower Mini Valk set 2 (1 in 7 chance for 5 Per Instance)
1.26: Endless tower has a Four day Cooldown, and requires a group to complete efficiently, making this not a viable way to obtain Valhalla's Flower
2: If you are able to compete and successfully obtain loot rights, you deserve the loot.
3: Mini Valks are a Higher Tier than Mini Bosses
3.1: Much harder to kill (Comparative to other mini bosses.)
3.2: Value of items (Stated above)
3.3: Rare Spawn items need to make a God Item
4: God items are to be competed for in order to be made. This is why WoE exists, and is what the game revolves around. Brynhild is a god item, is no different, and is not exempt. There is no logic or reason behind obtaining ownership of these monsters simply because you walked onto the screen first. If you are able to be beaten in getting loot rights, which were created with the sole purpose of settling disputes such as this, then you do not, by the mechanics of the game, deserve the chance at getting the items from it during that kill. You were already given a major advantage by getting the first hit (Has the most priority in deciding the loot rights), you have had more time than the copetition to deal damage. If you do not obtain the loot rights, it is because you did not do enough damage in order deserve them more than your competitor. You have equal opportunity, as does your competition, to try again with the next spawn.

This is all I can think of at the moment, my mind is on other things IRL Related.

If something in this post is against the rules, please inform me with a link to the rule (In a post/list by a GM/CM) so that I may remove it without this topic being censored a fourth time. I fully intend to press this issue until it is resolved by one of the three people mentioned, on this forum, for all to see.

For those wondering, this took about 30 minutes to write. I went to college.

If this took you 30 minutes to write, I dare say your college education was money wasted.

Serious criticism, only because you brought it up.

If this took you 30 minutes to write, I dare say your college education was money wasted.

Serious criticism, only because you brought it up.

Wrong. Only reason it took that long is because I doublechecked things that I knew were right, but didn't want someone like you posting a snide remark about how I made an error. Also, it was paid for by the taxpayers. So thanks bro.

Edited by shado, 16 February 2012 - 02:45 AM.

Please try real hard to discuss the topic and not how you feel about the people discussing it with you. Thanks.

Edited by Maka, 16 February 2012 - 02:30 AM.

This thread needs to be closed, the answer was obtained from the GMs.

The moderators have confirmed the rule. Mini Valks are not FFA. That is all that needs to be said here.
Not every rule needs to be questioned or argued needlessly. If you don't like it, then suck it up and/or play another game.

should i add to the question to the gms.

its ilegal to mob drop someone that is tanking the mini valks to try to get it killed? cuz i got some proofs of someone doing it and ready to send my ticket
its sad that players can drop this low just cuz of greed

should i add to the question to the gms.

its ilegal to mob drop someone that is tanking the mini valks to try to get it killed? cuz i got some proofs of someone doing it and ready to send my ticket
its sad that players can drop this low just cuz of greed

If you hog the mobs without the intent to kill and you drop it on someone and flee by any means (moving out of screen, teleporting, hiding), you can definitely get banned for that. I remember when Geffen 1 Dungeon has this issue 5 years ago and Gravity was handing the temp ban card like no tomorrow to offenders. It is player harassment and can result not just a temp ban but a perma one with repeated offenses

So it has henceforth been answered, 1. They are not FFA. Done question answered.
2. Shad you still bring up a point, so why does this certain monster drop this item? Well its part of the game I guess... which u happen to play, and thus for when u downloaded the client abided by the rules? Or was there a special "Click here to be special claus i missed?"
3. Your point was valid but has henceforth been explained by Heim/Oda. If this monster was considered anything higher Tier'd it would ezily be exploited by anyone, including us if not you.
4. I guess getting the GM's to change a rule for you didn't work, im sorry it came to this, and from what i hear it has been a good "Competition" going on for the Mini Valks considering you have the Timer atm so there you go?.... QQ more Bro?

So it has henceforth been answered, 1. They are not FFA. Done question answered.
2. Shad you still bring up a point, so why does this certain monster drop this item? Well its part of the game I guess... which u happen to play, and thus for when u downloaded the client abided by the rules? Or was there a special "Click here to be special claus i missed?"
3. Your point was valid but has henceforth been explained by Heim/Oda. If this monster was considered anything higher Tier'd it would ezily be exploited by anyone, including us if not you.
4. I guess getting the GM's to change a rule for you didn't work, im sorry it came to this, and from what i hear it has been a good "Competition" going on for the Mini Valks considering you have the Timer atm so there you go?.... QQ more Bro?

I think if someone is going to make the point that the rarity of a monsters drops necessitate a reexamination of our current policy, I think it would be unfair to call this straight QQ. Perhaps it would be fruitful to focus on the SUGGESTION/PROPOSAL aspect or better to come up with other ways, through quests, increasing spawn or whatever to find other avenues to get those items.

I think if someone is going to make the point that the rarity of a monsters drops necessitate a reexamination of our current policy, I think it would be unfair to call this straight QQ. Perhaps it would be fruitful to focus on the SUGGESTION/PROPOSAL aspect or better to come up with other ways, through quests, increasing spawn or whatever to find other avenues to get those items.

I think the current spawn is fine, maybe add one or two more on the same or a twice as long spawn. I just wouldn't want the items to be devalued since they were made easier to get. If we could actually war over the current mini spawn without getting banned, it would be just fine.

Edited by shado, 16 February 2012 - 08:22 AM.

what about the players than dotn want to war about it? racing to get it first before anyone else is more war than enough for me, leave another war stuff for woe or pvp rooms

what about the players than dotn want to war about it? racing to get it first before anyone else is more war than enough for me, leave another war stuff for woe or pvp rooms

The only reason you are saying that is because right now you are undergeared and would lose..

Please don't post biased opinions but logical ones. Myself and my guild members have left you alone to kill the minis you find first until this is clarified, and would ask that you argue with reason and not bias.

Edited by shado, 16 February 2012 - 09:38 AM.

paying for gear/bombs/vip/gums paying attention and sacrificing part of my time, just to get ksed or almost killed by random asshle (not pointing at anyone just what i think of players that have to play in a ilegal way to be able to gain anything) is not part of what i think its fun, and i know many do agree with this, again you are the biased here that just want to ks anyone cuz cant stand that someone beat you to find a valkyrie.
also not undergeared able to take valkyries in matter of seconds alone, you can act and say all you want about how you are better.
rules have been like this cuz is the most efficient way to handle all this issue without that much chaos.
oh yeah i have been taking pictures of every valkyrie i fight just in case someone trys to play smart about it.

The only reason you are saying that is because right now you are undergeared and would lose..

Please don't post biased opinions but logical ones. Myself and my guild members have left you alone to kill the minis you find first until this is clarified, and would ask that you argue with reason and not bias.

HOW bout u stop QQ'ing then cause ur the one who started this thread and you got an answer so why drag it out more than it already has been. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions biased or logical they are permitted to post so please stop telling people how to post cause you only make yourself look bad.

paying for gear/bombs/vip/gums paying attention and sacrificing part of my time, just to get ksed or almost killed by random asshle (not pointing at anyone just what i think of players that have to play in a ilegal way to be able to gain anything) is not part of what i think its fun, and i know many do agree with this, again you are the biased here that just want to ks anyone cuz cant stand that someone beat you to find a valkyrie.
also not undergeared able to take valkyries in matter of seconds alone, you can act and say all you want about how you are better.
rules have been like this cuz is the most efficient way to handle all this issue without that much chaos.
oh yeah i have been taking pictures of every valkyrie i fight just in case someone trys to play smart about it.

You are missing the point entirely. You can't honestly try and tell me that I am ksing you when I have stood on screen and let you kill them without touching them at all.

Also, please stay on topic here and stop trying to start a flame war. What you are trying to say that ksing is what I am disagreeing with, and is the reason for this topic to be open to give GM's info that it should change.

Again, the discussion should shift from the (thread killing) killstealing arguement and looking at other ways to earn the items (why not some kind of instance with valks at the end?) instead of talking about the killstealing incident which is really not productive here.

A 50-floor version of ET would be fairly cool, but I'm not sure what you would put in it to make it any different than ET itself..

A 50-floor version of ET would be fairly cool, but I'm not sure what you would put in it to make it any different than ET itself..

One version of ET is enough!!!

Perhaps a instance with a limited amount of Valks and other angel type mobs spawned that you can enter maybe every 3-4 days. This would lessen the impact on the economy but give people a way to get what they need for brynhild creations without all the drama caused by the situation with shado.

@shado
For having a College Degree you lack alot of consideration of the thoughts of others as everyone has their own opinion and you have told multiple people they aren't contributing to the topic or to just not post. Last I checked you weren't a Forum Moderator or a GM so you don't have the authority to tell people how to post. Please take this advice as it will help you make many friends in RO, since right now you stand to lose alot of friends with that tone. No one wants to be friends with a bully, which essentially what you are in my perception.

Edited by rivermans, 16 February 2012 - 05:37 PM.

repeatable quest with some cd that in the end lets you access a quest map for your own party (no ks or any rule breaking this way)which has 1 or more valks with normal drops?
sounds good but looks like ab job change.
also could be part of vip summoner (which could add some other mini bosses to it like valks and porings)
even vip summoner could get a short quest to use it, and some reward at the end besides the boss.

mini's would be nice in summoner too

repeatable quest with some cd that in the end lets you access a quest map for your own party (no ks or any rule breaking this way)which has 1 or more valks with normal drops?
sounds good but looks like ab job change.
also could be part of vip summoner (which could add some other mini bosses to it like valks and porings)
even vip summoner could get a short quest to use it, and some reward at the end besides the boss.

This is a good line for you guys to brainstorm on. Something that would be a fair instance, take some coordination and party play, that would have mini valks either at the end or along the way.

This is a good line for you guys to brainstorm on. Something that would be a fair instance, take some coordination and party play, that would have mini valks either at the end or along the way.

Endless Tower already has 5 with a chance at 5 more. :S

i know its a bit off topic, but this topic made me think: how about a God Dungon?

http://forums.warppo...alhalla-dungon/