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Best weapon for Swirling Petal, Kunai Explosion?


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#1 TheKraven

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:50 PM

What is it?
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#2 Riakuta

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:38 PM

+7 Grimtooth Expert Archer 4 Expert Archer 4 / Quadruple Kingbird Main Gauge.
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#3 Furan

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Ummm, swirling petal requires a Huuma Shuriken class weapon no?
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#4 gicko

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

Petal huuma shuriken[2], is good for swirling petal because of its slots and bonus 20%dmg for Swirling petal
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#5 Riakuta

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

Ummm, swirling petal requires a Huuma Shuriken class weapon no?


Oh sorry, I thought the question was Exploding Kunai. I have not gotten to test the Shuriken skills yet.
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#6 waka

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

the RWC ring + RWC dagger is not too shabby (considering putting in a AS into one)
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#7 TheSquishy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

But what about the size penalty on daggers?
Aren't the only optimal in specific situations?
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#8 TheAzureLight

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

Petal huuma shuriken[2], is good for swirling petal because of its slots and bonus 20%dmg for Swirling petal

Where would you get that weapon?
Edit:Nvm saw the weapon crafter in the Ninja Guild :I
And you have to be lvl 110 to even use it ._.

Edited by TheAzureLight, 11 February 2013 - 01:08 PM.

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#9 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

+7 Grimtooth Expert Archer 4 Expert Archer 4 / Quadruple Kingbird Main Gauge.

I wonder which is actually better, grimtooth with EA8, or Kingbird RWC Knife?

+12 Grimtooth is 264 ATK with +16% ranged, and a +12 Kingbird RWC Knife and Ring is 310 ATK with +10% ranged and +10% vs all race.

Edited by Jaye, 11 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#10 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

I wonder which is actually better, grimtooth with EA8, or Kingbird RWC Knife?

+12 Grimtooth is 264 ATK with +16% ranged, and a +12 Kingbird RWC Knife and Ring is 310 ATK with +10% ranged and +10% vs all race.


The question is which is better +6% Ranged vs +10% to All. Do Earth Charms or Throw Kunai include bonus Atk from Str. & Last, but not least am I a ripe or rotten Tomato.
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#11 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:03 PM

The question is which is better +6% Ranged vs +10% to All. Do Earth Charms or Throw Kunai include bonus Atk from Str. & Last, but not least am I a ripe or rotten Tomato.

No, +6% Ranged vs +10% to All and +46 ATK.
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#12 MrTyranitar

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

I'd agree with Jaye that the Kingbird RWC weapon is likely a better choice than a Grimtooth.
Grimtooth will cut your defenses by 66%, which isn't too nice to have when your reductions are going to be small anyway (due to a lack of a shield). Trying for EA enchants can get rather costly, too.
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#13 DrAzzy

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

I wonder which is actually better, grimtooth with EA8, or Kingbird RWC Knife?

+12 Grimtooth is 264 ATK with +16% ranged, and a +12 Kingbird RWC Knife and Ring is 310 ATK with +10% ranged and +10% vs all race.


Does kunai explosion not get the str bonus to weapon attack? If that's the case, it's bizzare.

Otherwise, the above comparisons between RWC knife and Grimtooth are meaningless unless you have 0 str, since most of the RWC knife's atk is equip attack, and hence not modified by str bonus.

With 100 str, grimtooth should get a str bonus of 90, while RWC knife will get a str bonus of 25. This is 65 more atk for the GT, which brings it to 329 atk, vs 335 for the RWC knife, a difference of less than 2%. With more str, the GT should be better than RWC knife...

I would expect that for a ranged skill, +16% ranged is pretty similar in terms of damage output to +10% ranged +10% all race, since +% vs race/type/element only effect weapon and equipment atk.

Edited by DrAzzy, 13 February 2013 - 11:22 AM.

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#14 Kadelia

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:06 PM

Does kunai explosion not get the str bonus to weapon attack? If that's the case, it's bizzare.

Otherwise, the above comparisons between RWC knife and Grimtooth are meaningless unless you have 0 str, since most of the RWC knife's atk is equip attack, and hence not modified by str bonus.

With 100 str, grimtooth should get a str bonus of 90, while RWC knife will get a str bonus of 25. This is 65 more atk for the GT, which brings it to 329 atk, vs 335 for the RWC knife, a difference of less than 2%. With more str, the GT should be better than RWC knife...

I would expect that for a ranged skill, +16% ranged is pretty similar in terms of damage output to +10% ranged +10% all race, since +% vs race/type/element only effect weapon and equipment atk.

I think you're missing that the cards and the earth charms all affect the equip atk of the rwc knife, whereas the str based damage isn't increased by the earth charms

Edited by Jaye, 13 February 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#15 Riakuta

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

I think you're missing that the cards and the earth charms all affect the equip atk of the rwc knife, whereas the str based damage isn't increased by the earth charms


Actually Earth Charms do not effect Equipment Atk at all, but that being said the bonus from RWC Knife is considered Weapon Atk not Equipment Atk.
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#16 DrAzzy

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

What sort of modifier do the earth charms give?

IIRC, it's been stated as a "+15% weapon attack" bonus - if this is the case, it clearly favors grimtooth.

If it's actually implemented as a +15% vs all effect (which I think is the most likely case), then it would effect the entirety of the damage that's been included in the above calculations (ie, all of weapon attack and equip attack, but not status attack) - unless you're saying that str bonus isn't effected by +% atk effects? (I can't find any references suggesting this is the case - can you?)

If it's something else, what exactly is it?

Actually Earth Charms do not effect Equipment Atk at all, but that being said the bonus from RWC Knife is considered Weapon Atk not Equipment Atk.


What methodology did you use to determine these facts?

You're proposing not one but two unprecedented effects in one sentence, so I feel like we need to back this up.

Edited by DrAzzy, 13 February 2013 - 01:21 PM.

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#17 Riakuta

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

What methodology did you use to determine these facts?

You're proposing not one but two unprecedented effects in one sentence, so I feel like we need to back this up.


I had a +9 Heroic Backpack on with a Bloodied Shackle Ball = +80 Equipment Atk. When I remove my weapon and use Throw Kunai my damage doesn't change between using 0 Earth Charms or 10 Earth Charms.
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#18 Kadelia

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

It is +15% equipment attack, I use (exclusively) the RWC knife and the earth charms add substantial damage to my kunai skills (like 20% overall increase in damage).

Edited by Jaye, 13 February 2013 - 01:53 PM.

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#19 DrAzzy

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

I had a +9 Heroic Backpack on with a Bloodied Shackle Ball = +80 Equipment Atk. When I remove my weapon and use Throw Kunai my damage doesn't change between using 0 Earth Charms or 10 Earth Charms.

It is +15% equipment attack, I use (exclusively) the RWC knife and the earth charms add substantial damage to my kunai skills (like 20% overall increase in damage).


I cannot reconcile these two statements!
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#20 Kadelia

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

Sounds like we need to test more extensively in a controlled environment.
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#21 DrAzzy

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

Sounds like we need to test more extensively in a controlled environment.

Yup.

Also, my source says 15% weapon atk PER CHARM.

which is (quick back of the eyelid calculation) about the right ballpark if it only effects the weapon attack of the RWC dagger...

This leads to the conclusion that a grimtooth should BURY the RWC dagger for kunai ninja....

Of course that's just if my proposal is correct, which needs to be tested.

Edited by DrAzzy, 13 February 2013 - 02:04 PM.

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#22 Kadelia

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:50 PM

Yup.

Also, my source says 15% weapon atk PER CHARM.

which is (quick back of the eyelid calculation) about the right ballpark if it only effects the weapon attack of the RWC dagger...

This leads to the conclusion that a grimtooth should BURY the RWC dagger for kunai ninja....

Of course that's just if my proposal is correct, which needs to be tested.


Thing is, I use the 9 charms and my 50 atk RWC dagger's damage goes from 20k to 26k (etc) with throw kunai and 68 ATK shouldn't be that much, for one. For two, people using grimtooth would get three times that bonus, so 225 ATK, they should be seeing closer to a 60% increase in their overall damage (like if they had 20k damage, it'd jump to 32k), and I have not seen the charms jump anyone's damage that much before, so that would be really surprising to me.

Edited by Jaye, 13 February 2013 - 02:51 PM.

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#23 Sully

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

I use 2 Grimtooth, both EA 5,4
But i would like to know what is better? +12 Quad AS Main Gauge (x2)
Or x2 +9 Grimtooth EA 5,4 (x2)
Or any other options to make it better? :D thanks
EDIT: and what are the required stats for kunai explosion for best dmg o;

Edited by Sully, 13 February 2013 - 06:53 PM.

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#24 Riakuta

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Thing is, I use the 9 charms and my 50 atk RWC dagger's damage goes from 20k to 26k (etc) with throw kunai and 68 ATK shouldn't be that much, for one. For two, people using grimtooth would get three times that bonus, so 225 ATK, they should be seeing closer to a 60% increase in their overall damage (like if they had 20k damage, it'd jump to 32k), and I have not seen the charms jump anyone's damage that much before, so that would be really surprising to me.


25k to 44k = 19k Damage Increase.


I use 2 Grimtooth, both EA 5,4
But i would like to know what is better? +12 Quad AS Main Gauge (x2)
Or x2 +9 Grimtooth EA 5,4 (x2)
Or any other options to make it better? :D thanks
EDIT: and what are the required stats for kunai explosion for best dmg o;


Using a Grimtooth in the offhand does not make a difference unless you are auto attacking because the attack from it is not counted towards skill damage so you are better off using a Quadruple Kingbird Main Gauge in Off Hand and Grimtooth Expert Archer 5 Expert Archer in the Main Hand.

Dex and Str.
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#25 Sully

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

25k to 44k = 19k Damage Increase.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zMbNztAHjY&feature=youtu.be



Using a Grimtooth in the offhand does not make a difference unless you are auto attacking because the attack from it is not counted towards skill damage so you are better off using a Quadruple Kingbird Main Gauge in Off Hand and Grimtooth Expert Archer 5 Expert Archer in the Main Hand.

Dex and Str.

Ahhh ! That makes sense! Thankyou
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