remove debuff

It is just that in its entirety. You call it harassment to have it fall on your side of the situation. How can a skill that is given to you and made by the developers and to be used for the sole purpose of debuffing people... how is using something 100% for its purpose harassment? You haven't stated why you think it is harassment rather than just flipping my words around. You can say KSing is harassment, but it isn't against the rules... and neither is debuffing. If debuffing is harassment then me being pkd in a pk zone is harassment simply because I don't like it.

Some peoples mains are their debuffers. I'm not saying they won't change it, I'm saying they shouldn't. It gets annoying when a game keeps changing over and over again, because people would rather whine to get their way over choosing to work through it and overcome it. If the game keeps going this way, it will truly ruin because the whiners will always get their way, and the game won't be looked at as unique or what is best for the game overall, but rather than doing whatever possible to please people.... heck make IM free then, that would please everyone right? Complain enough, and call it harassment you might just get your way.

So aruas are different because you pay for them? People can use aruas all day long, and keep using them the same way they can use debuff(in the sense to use them to just keep annoying another player and beating them in some way). Just because its a consumable doesn't mean it can't just as easily be annoying and used over and over and over and over again. So that makes absolutely NO sense.

I'm a troll because I don't and refuse to agree with you? I'm sorry but I'm not a person that gives in just because that its the easier route. I as a person was never raised to take the easier route or to whine until I get my way. If I dislike something, I make valid suggestions and/or work through the problem. If every single person in this game hated debuffers, then sure get rid of them. The fact is, there are debuffers(if there wasn't this thread wouldn't exist), so people enjoy doing it. There are no rules against it, so hate it or not it should stay. I would rather discuss this in a manner without names(i.e. troll) given to each other, as it will not be something I participate in.... but it seems as though you would rather on focus putting in a subliminal or light way of making fun or calling me a name rather than truly thinking out what you are saying. Most if not all of your responses were banter rather than valid suggestions.

Give me an actual reason why debuffing should be gone? Not liking it is not a valid reason, or otherwise we should start getting rid of EVERYTHING people in this game don't like.......

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 13 April 2013 - 01:24 AM.

If you didn't understand the reasons with the 2 previous pages, their is nothing more I can do to help you. Sorry.

Alright, I guess the discussion has ended. You still haven't given one reason other than you simply dislike it. If you would like to continue the conversation PM me, otherwise I'll consider you just trying to troll and one up me in which I will not participate in.

debuff skill was debated long ago, and debuff was nerfed just like artis' sleep... if debuff should be removed entirely, so should artis' sleep

He's right, if you cannot pull it from the prior two pages...you're likely beyond help understanding.

Let me put it simply though.

1. Some players use it specifically to make people rage---ergo harassment. Many of these players will openly admit they do it to annoy people. They are targeting specific people. Yes, pk in some senses can be a form of harassment if they are targetting the same particular person over and over. However, pking is pushing the cycle of the pvp side of the game, and not hindering it. You get pked as a noob leveling..hold a grudge against a person or clan...join enemy clans.. Commence the warring. Debuffing is hindering it.

2. Debuffing stops wars! And that is fine for a few people..But for the very large pvp crowd it blows. I said it before..I'll say it again, wars go down the wayside once someone brings in a debuffer to win. Pking starts wars and makes people war more(Or have to call help..which ends up in warring..and entertainment).


Debuffing doesn't make people want to war someone more--It makes them want to afk and not bother buffing the buffs they are going to lose in thirty seconds or less.



Arti sleep isnt 100%, and its over once youre touched. It can be a good addition to war to make it interesting if its used right.

Agree with the point that debuff hinders motivation to war.
I don't expect a lot of rage if they just went and removed it.

I think it's all base on the situation really:

1. In TG war, mages only serve as a debuffer. And its not even about rebuffing buffsets, I could care less if I don't get buffsetted but to just lose 2-3 buffs immediately changes the whole game. Especially in a hectic war, good luck having to ask constantly for a rebuff while your cleric is healing him/herself as well as others in the group.

2. In GA, mages are much more effective in my opinion because of the style of play. The single target point which is the crystal requires all players to fight within that area to attack/defend which usually results in perma mute. Especially with a decent group, I'm always happy to have a mage be able to sneak in close and aoe mute everyone. Whenever I'm against that, I personally find it pretty challenging.

This is semi off-topic but I think it relates to the situation of changing mage. You see, no one in tg uses bourgs for wars yet a team with bourgs in CD is always favorable. Why? Because it's all based on what the intended game play is. TG has factors of wider fighting area, unlimited players, and no food restrictions which favors range and speed. CD has limited players, red pot restriction, and a common goal to attack or defend different chokepoints which favors a diffferent set of skills.. in this case mages/aoe's.

So basically how I feel is that it really depends on what the intended goal is and what limitations are set within the area of play.

Edited by tENLAVUU, 13 April 2013 - 12:14 PM.

If you take out debuff because it annoys people then you might as well take out pvp all together, because there is so many other things about pvp people complain about. PVP maps that shouldn't be pvp zones, being killed when "chilling in tg", should I keep going on with the list? You are still saying get rid of it because people don't like it, and want to call it harassment. If I'm in TG and you kill me and it annoys me, then I'm calling harassment.....makes no sense. The skill is there to use, for the sake of being used, if you don't like it... don't go to pvp zones where you can be debuffed... problem solved. I hope some of you never become politicians or in the military, because you can't just simply tell the enemy "please oh please just stop using that, or get rid of it, then war will be ok again".....?

Debuffing stops wars because people would rather quit the war, come on forums and whine about the skill rather than figuring out ways to beat the debuffers. <<< Seem familiar? It makes people want to give up and you are right, that is the sad truth I'm stating. Just like people would rather buy and sell IM rather than farm, craft, etc. anymore. However that is an entirely different subject in which I won't get on in this topic. Over the years players have seemed(even myself, so I'm not necessarily pointing fingers) to have gotten lazier and lazier over time, and would rather go the easy route anymore.

Sleep is no different but everyone is okay with that. It takes two good arti's to keep sleeping someone, while the other allies of the arti's just kill the person who keeps being slept. There is no chance there either, but that is okay?

@tenlavuu - - When do you feel(if you do in any case) debuffing is a quality skill that should be used? Or are you on the side it should be taken away all together as well? I know you are a player who overcomes obstacles rather than just asking to get rid of it, so your answer truly interests me to be quite honest. Your last response is hinting at the idea of when it is useful or not, but I'm not seeming to get what side you are on.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 13 April 2013 - 12:17 PM.

If you take out debuff because it annoys people then you might as well take out pvp all together, because there is so many other things about pvp people complain about. PVP maps that shouldn't be pvp zones, being killed when "chilling in tg", should I keep going on with the list?

couldn't agree more.. just get rid of that dumb kiddish e-ego booster feature :-)

Death to PvP ftw !

selfbuffs and my mage, that's how I roll

If you take out debuff because it annoys people then you might as well take out pvp all together, because there is so many other things about pvp people complain about. PVP maps that shouldn't be pvp zones, being killed when "chilling in tg", should I keep going on with the list? You are still saying get rid of it because people don't like it, and want to call it harassment. If I'm in TG and you kill me and it annoys me, then I'm calling harassment.....makes no sense. The skill is there to use, for the sake of being used, if you don't like it... don't go to pvp zones where you can be debuffed... problem solved. I hope some of you never become politicians or in the military, because you can't just simply tell the enemy "please oh please just stop using that, or get rid of it, then war will be ok again".....?

Debuffing stops wars because people would rather quit the war, come on forums and whine about the skill rather than figuring out ways to beat the debuffers. <<< Seem familiar? It makes people want to give up and you are right, that is the sad truth I'm stating. Just like people would rather buy and sell IM rather than farm, craft, etc. anymore. However that is an entirely different subject in which I won't get on in this topic. Over the years players have seemed(even myself, so I'm not necessarily pointing fingers) to have gotten lazier and lazier over time, and would rather go the easy route anymore.

Sleep is no different but everyone is okay with that. It takes two good arti's to keep sleeping someone, while the other allies of the arti's just kill the person who keeps being slept. There is no chance there either, but that is okay?

@tenlavuu - - When do you feel(if you do in any case) debuffing is a quality skill that should be used? Or are you on the side it should be taken away all together as well? I know you are a player who overcomes obstacles rather than just asking to get rid of it, so your answer truly interests me to be quite honest. Your last response is hinting at the idea of when it is useful or not, but I'm not seeming to get what side you are on.

Do you even pvp... Or are you strictly a player who does pvm only and argues about pvp topics for the lols? I feel like the for the good of this topic..we need to clarify. Because honestly, you're using the same counter-argument over and over--that some people say its harassment..we give other viable reasons and you immediately go to "stop crying its a pvp zone." What, our points are not valid because we don't like something that is part of the game? Debuff was a viable skill until players turned it into something malicious by making speed-mages who's sole purpose is to debuff. This is NOT what the skill was intended for. If something isn't being used for what it is intended and is being used in a negative light...its usually considered a bad thing.

Its one thing to be killed in a pvp area.. and crying about that, we'll you can always go into a non-pvp area or retaliate. This is the stuff that encourages the warring, which encourages the game to be active. Debuffing is the opposite. It encourages people to give up because no matter how much effort you put in..youre just going to lose all your buffs and

Other points have been listed, but you're still just skirting addressing the other things and going back to the harassment thing. The point that it ruins wars(Whether its people crying or not) is a LARGE issue. It means half your players are now afking most of the time. In some cases, I have noticed a few players who stop playing cd when there are too many mages in the game debuffing the other side(Maybe I could see you saying they need to stop crying about that..). Its hindering the game. What part of that are you missing. Whether or not you think people are crying to much is irrelevant. At some point, you need to open your eyes and see that its hurting more than its helping.

I could care less if I get debuffed or not.. I play a cleric 90% of the time--I lose a buff, I put it back on..Simple enough for me.. But the point that it can stop wars dead in their tracks..because they become spiteful debuff wars... We're talking about taking away something that is a big part of the game, or used to be a big part of the game.

How do you beat a group of debuffing mages in mspeed. Kill it? Sure.. Hope you kill it before it casts its skill--Where it probably targeted you across the screen long before you even noticed it coming back...You do kill it? It spawns again and the cool down for the skill is finished by the time it comes back to repeat the process. You can avoid it for a bit(which insanely hard while you're trying to war), run around corners to avoid the debuff, but, ultimately, you're going to suffer the fate eventually. And this is all assuming there is just -one- mage. Usually, they travel in packs. Whats your character names again--I am still more than willing to give you a taste..

If the skill wasn't being abused, I would say that its still a viable mage skill, but as players cannot help but to maliciously create speed mages for the sole purpose of debuffing.. Its not a good skill.

PS. Vu's post wasn't pro-debuffing. He was talking about where mages in general were useful...GA vs TG wars.. And having read his post.. I would guess he isn't overly fond of it, especially in tg wars where it can dramatically change the outcome.

Tread will be closed, because it's derailing the topic, and create the argument among players like other locked threads soon, or wait, it may not considered it to their own doscriptions?

The skill is there to use, for the sake of being used, if you don't like it... don't go to pvp zones where you can be debuffed... problem solved.

Don't retaliate against bullies - problem solved!
While you're at it, quit playing ROSE as well - problem solved!
Poor arguments like this will NEVER lead to positive change. Would you have told Martin Luther King to grin and bear it?


I think Vu is spot on at pointing out the actual core problem - mages are only a problem in TG wars because people abuse (yes I used that word) the debuff skill. Buy a precious staff, robe and 2 sagis and steal a speed set: you are set to effectively change a war without bothering with the rest of the cool things in the class. Dying doesn't even disadvantage a TG mage.

In GA, mages are much more valuable when played properly, attacking and supporting with all those other cool skills. That's how it should be. A speed debuffer in GA would be a waste of a precious slot.

The fact that you can abuse a single skill (which is not a core part of the class) so effectively is the problem. The 99% nade lockdown was nerfed and arti's are a lot better now. Think about what would happen if we were forced to "adapt" to a 99% stun lock. Not cool.


I do want to point out something unrelated to Nia:
Taking out debuffs won't make TG wars awesome again. What will likely happen is boostered players having no risk of losing buffs. A boostered clan will stand in TG for 30minutes trashing the world while their enemies afk outside.

Edited by kaminichuan, 13 April 2013 - 07:15 PM.

I do want to point out something unrelated to Nia:
Taking out debuffs won't make TG wars awesome again. What will likely happen is boostered players having no risk of losing buffs. A boostered clan will stand in TG for 30minutes trashing the world while their enemies afk outside.

I'm under no illusion that it will make it awesome again--But it certainly would be a step in the right direction. I recognize that it would take a while to actually change the player mentality back to where it was...well sorta anyways. But if they were not able to be debuff mages, then at least they had one less thing to hide behind and we could get back to some better warring. At least if a boostered clan wanted to be well boostered....the other clan could booster too to even out the playing field...NOt that its ideal either, but at elast a step back to where we were(Step two would be to lessen the gap between booster/regular buffs again...but thats another topic of discussion).

Debuffing stops wars because people would rather quit the war, come on forums and whine about the skill rather than figuring out ways to beat the debuffers.

Tell me, what is there to figure out? Slow them down, pray for lucky stuns and kill them before they reach you. If you're melee then your only hope is a lucky stun, otherwise it's a couple of debuffs for you.
And even when you kill them they'll be back within 10 seconds. Boy do I hate stating the obvious.

Why take part in PvP threads when you have no idea what you're talking about?

Tell me, what is there to figure out? Slow them down, pray for lucky stuns and kill them before they reach you. If you're melee then your only hope is a lucky stun, otherwise it's a couple of debuffs for you.
And even when you kill them they'll be back within 10 seconds. Boy do I hate stating the obvious.

Why take part in PvP threads when you have no idea what you're talking about?

I agreed with you, I always been debuffed in TG during the fight even it's 1 against all, it's very annoying, even they died and they will still come back and they are very persistant!

well boosters are another reason mages just debuff, there is people in game which will never enter in tg with cleric buffs, constantly abusing the boostaaaa ; - ; so yeah :>

Do you even pvp... Or are you strictly a player who does pvm only and argues about pvp topics for the lols? I feel like the for the good of this topic..we need to clarify. Because honestly, you're using the same counter-argument over and over--that some people say its harassment..we give other viable reasons and you immediately go to "stop crying its a pvp zone." What, our points are not valid because we don't like something that is part of the game? Debuff was a viable skill until players turned it into something malicious by making speed-mages who's sole purpose is to debuff. This is NOT what the skill was intended for. If something isn't being used for what it is intended and is being used in a negative light...its usually considered a bad thing.

Its one thing to be killed in a pvp area.. and crying about that, we'll you can always go into a non-pvp area or retaliate. This is the stuff that encourages the warring, which encourages the game to be active. Debuffing is the opposite. It encourages people to give up because no matter how much effort you put in..youre just going to lose all your buffs and

Other points have been listed, but you're still just skirting addressing the other things and going back to the harassment thing. The point that it ruins wars(Whether its people crying or not) is a LARGE issue. It means half your players are now afking most of the time. In some cases, I have noticed a few players who stop playing cd when there are too many mages in the game debuffing the other side(Maybe I could see you saying they need to stop crying about that..). Its hindering the game. What part of that are you missing. Whether or not you think people are crying to much is irrelevant. At some point, you need to open your eyes and see that its hurting more than its helping.

I could care less if I get debuffed or not.. I play a cleric 90% of the time--I lose a buff, I put it back on..Simple enough for me.. But the point that it can stop wars dead in their tracks..because they become spiteful debuff wars... We're talking about taking away something that is a big part of the game, or used to be a big part of the game.

How do you beat a group of debuffing mages in mspeed. Kill it? Sure.. Hope you kill it before it casts its skill--Where it probably targeted you across the screen long before you even noticed it coming back...You do kill it? It spawns again and the cool down for the skill is finished by the time it comes back to repeat the process. You can avoid it for a bit(which insanely hard while you're trying to war), run around corners to avoid the debuff, but, ultimately, you're going to suffer the fate eventually. And this is all assuming there is just -one- mage. Usually, they travel in packs. Whats your character names again--I am still more than willing to give you a taste..

If the skill wasn't being abused, I would say that its still a viable mage skill, but as players cannot help but to maliciously create speed mages for the sole purpose of debuffing.. Its not a good skill.

PS. Vu's post wasn't pro-debuffing. He was talking about where mages in general were useful...GA vs TG wars.. And having read his post.. I would guess he isn't overly fond of it, especially in tg wars where it can dramatically change the outcome.

I've highlighted and responded to where in my opinion your theorys fail.

Wait wait wait..... so when debuff was created for mage.... they gave a description of what it was made for? LOL Where is this guide that says it is made for the ways you intend, but not to make a speed only mage and use that skill only? Where are they codes and rules that you are going by? This just makes me laugh more and more. Please tell me what exaclty the skill was intended for, and then provide some sort of definitive backing for it because I guarantee you have none. A skill is a skill, and it is used however the player feels best to use it. That is the point of skills given, to use them however you feel necessary/best to suit your game playing wants/needs.

Again this is your opinion. Maybe you or your friends, or others...whomever decides to give up... but that is just a sad part of your gameplay. I choose not to give up and keep coming back, or getting friends to help, etc. whatever I can to beat that mage and continue beating them until they go away... and they usually end doing so . So for you to say that the skill demotes the invitation of war, is simply only showing how you and your friends,... or maybe just you... on how you war. I'm in no way saying you are good and/or bad, I'm just saying these off of mere reading the ways you think wars go/should go.

I 100% back you and everyone on the fact that IF it is "ruining the game" then sure get rid of it. However, with item mall this high and the economy overall this terrible.... and yet people STILL war, STILL buy IM, and STILL play constantly.... then I doubt this one skill which can be annoying is "ruining the game". So, let's say every now and then you join a war when debuff mages team up and take over.....so what?! lol that is war. So figure out how to counteract it when that happens, or just give up like normal.

Exactly this. They run in packs, which means more than just a few love this skill. Which is another reason it shouldn't go away, just because "the majority dislikes it". We get it, you have 50mages lol, you can show me at any time, I have no need to be shown.... I know how annoying it is as I've said 1000 times I dislike it as well, but that doesn't negate the fact that I understand there is a liking for it. SO! BECAUSE! there is a liking for it, rather than me whining about it.... I'd rather focus on beating them and working with my clan/team/friends/etc. to beat them to a pulp. Let me get a bit personal on a positive side for you here: You are in Kyoudai... I've played in Leonis for years now(wow believe it or not?!).... you are in one of the top clans in this game hands down. You are really trying to tell me that if 3 mages are running around debuffing you guys, you couldn't easily round up 10 of you to stomp them? Come on, you guys could stomp them within seconds over and over and over again. It really isn't all that hard to overcome a couple of debuffers. I could understand if they were flooding the game and like 20+ were running around all at once ALL THE TIME and just ruining everything then sure lol, but come on let's be real here Nia. Your clan and even most decent only war clans could easily take them down.

You gotta give the players who aren't good at warring something to do lol.

Also, yes I do pvp a lot actually.

@Kerma -- I do pvp actually as I just stated lol. If you can't down a mage, I'm sorry to hear that? But knowing who you are in game, I know that you can take down a debuffer. So I think sometimes people are just arguing simply because they dislike the inconvenience rather than "it's impossible to beat a debuff mage". 1 Debuff mage takes 2-3 decent people to ruin the debuffers good time, 2 debuff mages? get 3-4 friends... or even just ask the others prolly being debuffed to help out lol. It really isn't that malicious to be able to overcome.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 14 April 2013 - 06:23 AM.

Also, yes I do pvp a lot actually.

@Kerma -- I do pvp actually as I just stated lol. If you can't down a mage, I'm sorry to hear that? But knowing who you are in game, I know that you can take down a debuffer. So I think sometimes people are just arguing simply because they dislike the inconvenience rather than "it's impossible to beat a debuff mage". 1 Debuff mage takes 2-3 decent people to ruin the debuffers good time, 2 debuff mages? get 3-4 friends... or even just ask the others prolly being debuffed to help out lol. It really isn't that malicious to be able to overcome.

3-4 people...watching for one person. There is no class in this game that can force a team to put 3-4 people on it to prevent it form ruining a war but a mage. Remember this is coming from a mage's perspective. I hate that wars are ruined by debuffers, hell now there are lvl 110 or so mages debuffing for hours on end in tg, all to support one side. They have no life, no def, yet in the thick of things they still get off a debuff.

Give the mages some attributes that make the need to debuff go away, and it will in turn remove some of the debuffing trolls we have now.

bla bla bla I approve mages cause I'm a beast hunting no-life people.

^ Here is a summary for people who doesn't waste time reading non-sense

Edited by Darkii, 14 April 2013 - 08:23 AM.

I've highlighted and responded to where in my opinion your theorys fail.

Wait wait wait..... so when debuff was created for mage.... they gave a description of what it was made for? LOL Where is this guide that says it is made for the ways you intend, but not to make a speed only mage and use that skill only? Where are they codes and rules that you are going by? This just makes me laugh more and more. Please tell me what exaclty the skill was intended for, and then provide some sort of definitive backing for it because I guarantee you have none. A skill is a skill, and it is used however the player feels best to use it. That is the point of skills given, to use them however you feel necessary/best to suit your game playing wants/needs.

Again this is your opinion. Maybe you or your friends, or others...whomever decides to give up... but that is just a sad part of your gameplay. I choose not to give up and keep coming back, or getting friends to help, etc. whatever I can to beat that mage and continue beating them until they go away... and they usually end doing so . So for you to say that the skill demotes the invitation of war, is simply only showing how you and your friends,... or maybe just you... on how you war. I'm in no way saying you are good and/or bad, I'm just saying these off of mere reading the ways you think wars go/should go.

I 100% back you and everyone on the fact that IF it is "ruining the game" then sure get rid of it. However, with item mall this high and the economy overall this terrible.... and yet people STILL war, STILL buy IM, and STILL play constantly.... then I doubt this one skill which can be annoying is "ruining the game". So, let's say every now and then you join a war when debuff mages team up and take over.....so what?! lol that is war. So figure out how to counteract it when that happens, or just give up like normal.

Exactly this. They run in packs, which means more than just a few love this skill. Which is another reason it shouldn't go away, just because "the majority dislikes it". We get it, you have 50mages lol, you can show me at any time, I have no need to be shown.... I know how annoying it is as I've said 1000 times I dislike it as well, but that doesn't negate the fact that I understand there is a liking for it. SO! BECAUSE! there is a liking for it, rather than me whining about it.... I'd rather focus on beating them and working with my clan/team/friends/etc. to beat them to a pulp. Let me get a bit personal on a positive side for you here: You are in Kyoudai... I've played in Leonis for years now(wow believe it or not?!).... you are in one of the top clans in this game hands down. You are really trying to tell me that if 3 mages are running around debuffing you guys, you couldn't easily round up 10 of you to stomp them? Come on, you guys could stomp them within seconds over and over and over again. It really isn't all that hard to overcome a couple of debuffers. I could understand if they were flooding the game and like 20+ were running around all at once ALL THE TIME and just ruining everything then sure lol, but come on let's be real here Nia. Your clan and even most decent only war clans could easily take them down.

You gotta give the players who aren't good at warring something to do lol.

Also, yes I do pvp a lot actually.

@Kerma -- I do pvp actually as I just stated lol. If you can't down a mage, I'm sorry to hear that? But knowing who you are in game, I know that you can take down a debuffer. So I think sometimes people are just arguing simply because they dislike the inconvenience rather than "it's impossible to beat a debuff mage". 1 Debuff mage takes 2-3 decent people to ruin the debuffers good time, 2 debuff mages? get 3-4 friends... or even just ask the others prolly being debuffed to help out lol. It really isn't that malicious to be able to overcome.

First of..the color coordinating, very irritating to the eyes--worse to the ocd because its not in order. Please for the good of all, dont do it again.

Secondly..No respectable game developer would put a skill into a game if they thought it would be used to harass and drive down the overall feel of the game play. The skill was intended as a survivability thing--To remove a few buffs in this game to help you defeat someone/something. That being said, mages are meant to be offensive, not supportive(Although, I do know a few people who play respectable hybrids). Debuff is meant for a mage to remove a buff and take control of the situation. Not spawn repeatedly to generally piss a player off by removing all of the buffs. Get off your 'I need to argue with everyone' highhorse and open your eyes. People are not playing constantly anymore.

Yes, Leonis is suffering a terrible bout of inflation--That I hope the GMs will address soon as I've been crying about it for some months now. This doesn't effect war in the same way. This prevents/slows down new competitors from entering the battle field..But doesn't stop war in their tracks. If you have, indeed, played Leonis for a few years you know that it has drastically gone down hill over the years. I"m told it was even better before I started--I believe it given the decline..But What I do know, and this isn't my opinion but an observation, is that it has gone down hill faster since players turned to being full-time debuffers. There were no full-time debuffers when I first started, this was something that started with a few people..and then a few others made mages to combat the other sides mages..Kind of thing. Its out of hand. Its ruining game play.


When you see more wars that end up with both sides bringing debuffers for the other side then actual warring, its an issue. You obviously do not war, or you would understand the general players fustrations. You can't possibly sit there spinning your screen looking out for all the debuff mages. New ones come in on a normal basis--Sometimes you don't even see the debuff until it happens..then you look around the training grounds at the ten different idle mages(as you were busy warring) to try to figure out which one debuffed you? And you're missing the point--Its not one side who is consistantly giving up..Both sides will once they are only dealing with a mage..

And no, I don't have a team of highly-trained professional mage killers in my clan who dedicate their time to just killing mages over and over again. But I'll take your suggestion into consideration as I drag and drop it into my recycle bin. Really? I don't think any clan is going to have a group of people sit there and watch for mages while others try to war. When things turn to a debuff war, I would say theres probably a minimum of 2-4 mages involved... And really, you can effectively get someones buffs in a few minutes with two mages..You can't possibly kill them both at once--Oh yeah..You have a party of highly trained Mage killers who spend their entire time just scouting for mages. Do you hire out?

Like I said..Open your eyes--Note that there isn't anyone really agreeing with you and that far more are against you. So if majority of the game thinks its ruining the game for them then helping them..and makes them want to war less--their opinions must be invalid? What logic is that.

three pages of huge post's all about 1 skill, which has been discussed 'x' amount of times before, and yet it's not gotten anywhere...

First of..the color coordinating, very irritating to the eyes--worse to the ocd because its not in order. Please for the good of all, dont do it again.

Secondly..No respectable game developer would put a skill into a game if they thought it would be used to harass and drive down the overall feel of the game play. The skill was intended as a survivability thing--To remove a few buffs in this game to help you defeat someone/something. That being said, mages are meant to be offensive, not supportive(Although, I do know a few people who play respectable hybrids). Debuff is meant for a mage to remove a buff and take control of the situation. Not spawn repeatedly to generally piss a player off by removing all of the buffs. Get off your 'I need to argue with everyone' highhorse and open your eyes. People are not playing constantly anymore.

Yes, Leonis is suffering a terrible bout of inflation--That I hope the GMs will address soon as I've been crying about it for some months now. This doesn't effect war in the same way. This prevents/slows down new competitors from entering the battle field..But doesn't stop war in their tracks. If you have, indeed, played Leonis for a few years you know that it has drastically gone down hill over the years. I"m told it was even better before I started--I believe it given the decline..But What I do know, and this isn't my opinion but an observation, is that it has gone down hill faster since players turned to being full-time debuffers. There were no full-time debuffers when I first started, this was something that started with a few people..and then a few others made mages to combat the other sides mages..Kind of thing. Its out of hand. Its ruining game play.


When you see more wars that end up with both sides bringing debuffers for the other side then actual warring, its an issue. You obviously do not war, or you would understand the general players fustrations. You can't possibly sit there spinning your screen looking out for all the debuff mages. New ones come in on a normal basis--Sometimes you don't even see the debuff until it happens..then you look around the training grounds at the ten different idle mages(as you were busy warring) to try to figure out which one debuffed you? And you're missing the point--Its not one side who is consistantly giving up..Both sides will once they are only dealing with a mage..

And no, I don't have a team of highly-trained professional mage killers in my clan who dedicate their time to just killing mages over and over again. But I'll take your suggestion into consideration as I drag and drop it into my recycle bin. Really? I don't think any clan is going to have a group of people sit there and watch for mages while others try to war. When things turn to a debuff war, I would say theres probably a minimum of 2-4 mages involved... And really, you can effectively get someones buffs in a few minutes with two mages..You can't possibly kill them both at once--Oh yeah..You have a party of highly trained Mage killers who spend their entire time just scouting for mages. Do you hire out?

Like I said..Open your eyes--Note that there isn't anyone really agreeing with you and that far more are against you. So if majority of the game thinks its ruining the game for them then helping them..and makes them want to war less--their opinions must be invalid? What logic is that.

It seems you like telling people what to do and what not to do. I'm sorry for the coloring of my response? It seems in game and on forums you aren't happy with the things that go on.

You keep saying that debuff is hindering the game as a whole.... but you have no proof of this at all. People buy IM more than ever(why does IM matter in this debate?...hmmm lets see, who would pay money for a game when there is a skill hindering the existence of its popularity, gameplay, and community?), people still build clans all the time, keep gearing new characters.... the game is far from dieing, and even more so far from dieing because of this skill that seems to be so terrible to you.

You are calling the skill a survivability thing.... where AGAIN are you getting these descriptions? How do you know exactly what it was and was not intended for? Debuff could be meant for to remove a debuff and take control and win.... or could mean to run around and debuff everyone in sight... until you give me a definition of the debuff skills purpose PROVIDED by the people who put it in the game.... your opinions on what its "supposed" to be for, will remain invalid to me I'm sorry. If debuffing is really "harassment", then submit a ticket about it with FULL detail and please let me know how they respond to it. Really Nia? "get off your high horse and i need to argue with everyone", 1. Why is that even necessary to say? So I'm supposed to just shut up and not say my opinions and let you feel free to say yours and not debate it because I don't agree? You are basically using a dictatorship and saying "I'll say whats right, and you can just stop right there MR" lol. Also, not to point fingers but lets' be honest, 3/4's of your posts are negative feed arguing... however appreciated because at least you are giving your opinion on something.

The GM's have said it many times, the economy is a player controlled market and they are not going to infringe on that other than making things sellable/not sellable, anything past that they don't control. I will agree that is has gone downhill, but are you really pinpointing that it went downhill because of this one skill? A bit laughable I must say. I can give different reasons I believe things have gone downhill, but I'm not here to give negativity rather than suggestions to make it better. In the end, everything has dull moments, even if that moment seems to last for a long time. I personally think with STEAM introduced the population is slowly, but still getting better... and I think with all the new updates coming and everything people will not only come back to play but we will get more players than ever....I have high hopes.

I like how you keep telling me what I do and don't do as if it provides any benefit to the conversation, or maybe it makes you feel as if you "one up'd me"??? Anyways I do war, and a lot.... and debuffers are a bit laughable to bit over being bothersome. They can be annoying at times aswell, but no matter what they can and always are easy to overcome. Debuff mages are very weak. Fast? Sure. Annoying, obviously. All it takes is 3-4 friends to take them down as I've stated before, and so if they come back you just keep taking them down.... how hard of a concept is that?

I didn't say sit there and watch for mages lol. I said if a war is going on, or if you are 1v1 someone, and a mage is ruining the time.... call in your clannies and have them help you wipe out the debuffers. If I have at least 6 of my friends/clannies on, we can easily take down 3debuff mages... its truly not that hard....at all.

Should I give up on my opinion and jump in the crowd just because my opinion isn't the most popular? I'll join a cult too and drink the kool-aid cause its what everyone is doing lol. So you also believe that just because it isn't the popular ideal, it should just be shunned and stomped upon? Like I've said many times, just because a good population of people don't like it, doesn't make it invaluable. Obviously there is a community of debuff mages who ENJOY it, so it should stay in my opinion. It seems your politics/ideals of how this game should run would in my opinion be the ultimate ruin of Rose. If you've noticed Rose has always catered to everyone in some way, which is why there is always a debate within everything in this game because there is always the crowd that LOVES the new implementation and then always the other half that HATE it.

This however will be my last response to you Nia because as I keep reading your responses to reply in a positive manner, you seem to sarcastically say negative and rude things for absolutely no reason as if it makes your opinions any more beneficial or superior. So take this response and just "drag and drop" it into your recycle bin as well, if you want to continue this debate in a more adult manner I would love to talk about it more... please PM me. Otherwise I'll take the responses as you trolling me and simply trying to make me look stupid.....or you can take this as a win? Whatever you suits your needs, but feel free to PM me if you would like to further debate.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 15 April 2013 - 06:18 AM.

Completely off topic but I would be curious to know who your pvp character is. Maybe you could share your wisdom in game and turn your text into action, you could make a class (as in school class) for nubs like me, you know we get 3 mages and you show me how it works !


Edit : Oh and I also found this, reminded me of this conversation lol
http://9gag.com/gag/7093270

Edited by Metaleux, 15 April 2013 - 02:12 AM.

nope. name calling is prohibited. take it to the PM LOL

and volunteermods have this "should be mysterious" rule to not reveal who they are in game.