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Full-Support Priest guide


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#26 AngeChan

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:54 PM

You can add my boss videos to your guide if you like. Still updating some now.. ^o^;
http://forums.warppo...s-video-guides/
or you can check my youtube channel
After raid boss I will make some RHD guide.. unfortunately I forgot to capture while leveling so no guide for priests still leveling up. Most are similar to RHD ver though..
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#27 synesthetic

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:37 PM

Assuming I ever get a set of RHD equipment, should I put runes in them or hope I get even better equips to put runes in?

I think it'd be more worth your zeny to just buy a VIP package from the auction house. Last I checked, VIP packs were up for 450z, while Rocket Punchers were up for ~75z (which is 450z for 6 punchers), and then you'd have to get runes. The VIP card would last for 30 days (which is plenty of time to get some raid gear), and you'd get other useful things like 10 Spinels (which you could either use, or sell back to the AH for 200-250z, at this point).

If you're looking to play strictly without real-money benefits, however, then...
If you can afford to put runes in and need the HP that much, then go for it. 6 runeholes with VIT runes would give you 180 HP. It's hard for me to say for certain because I don't know what your raid situation is like, or what the average PUG scene is like. I don't know how strictly people hold to the 5k HP mark when inviting people.

I think.. depending on how many stat points you spent on VIT, you'd have around 4.5 - 4.8k HP (unbuffed) with a full set of RHDs, 5x STCs, and no runes. If you can find groups for raids like that, then I think you could hold off on holepunching your RHD gear.

Edit: Got another question. So I spoke to another Priest who allocated his bonus points in AGI/VIT (no INT). Is this a good idea?

AGI/VIT, INT/AGI, INT/VIT. INT/AGI/VIT.
They're all fine, really. It's the cumulative bonuses from gear that really shape your character.

50 AGI = 4.57% Crit Rate
50 INT = 100 matk
50 VIT = 300 HP

None of these are so big that if you didn't get it, you'd have to stat reset or remake your character. So just go with what you like.
- Having 50 AGI would mean you'd have around 15% Crit Rate instead of 10%, given a regular set of gear.
- Having 100 matk would mean your Reno would be healing for an average of 22 HP more per tick.
- Having 300 HP is nice early on in endgame, but most people start shedding whatever VIT cards/runes they can for INT or AGI ones in the long run, since they feel their gear gives them enough HP on its own.

You can add my boss videos to your guide if you like. Still updating some now.. ^o^;

Thanks, I'm still not certain how I would want to approach the subject in my guide yet, but I'll keep it in mind. Looks like you have a good start on it so far.

One of your videos did remind me of something important I've been forgetting to add for weeks. The bit where if you try clicking on people in the HP window, it screws up if there's someone behind it. I'll just add that and the sticky Alt-keys bit into Gameplay Advice later.
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#28 Atweig

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:22 AM

While raiding, if I see/hear the other priest pop their Archangel, I try to hold off on overwriting any Reno or Asp+HH HoT and focus on Heal-spamming to top people off, since I don't want to cover up a ~600/tick HoT with a 450 one.

That's a very nice boost actually. Thank you very much! Well, the skill is clearly useful. If only it didn't have so many useless prereqs! *angry*
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#29 Aleate

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:34 AM

So yeah, as Priests, which Union faction should we be aligning ourselves with?
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#30 synesthetic

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:13 PM

Well. There isn't one that distinctly stands out as being the best for us. What do you want out of it?
Money?
Mats for crafted sets?
There are various guides outside of the forums summing up what each union has to offer.

In seaRO2, the union headgears give stats, so you could choose a union based on those. But there's no guarantee that headgear will change here to have stats.
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#31 Monstrix

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:59 PM

Help me please! I don't know what to do with Suff! Does it make sense to spend on it skillpoints if only heal have casting time:1 sec. While another healing skills casting instantly.
Do it speed up animation casting skills?
P.S. sorry for my english :hmm:
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#32 synesthetic

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:09 AM

It does not speed up animation. It only makes the yellow casting bar go by faster.
The animation/delay on Heal effectively makes it take 2 seconds to cast instead of 1.

I think Suffragium is okay for people who go out of their way to focus on casting speed. Max Suff, max Gloria, and get a set of crafted gear for more Haste Rate.
It could be fun, as long as you don't need to worry about cooldown on emergency skills. It really is better suited for hybrid/DPS priests, but it should be fine for dungeons.

For raids, I can see it being better and worse, depending on how well (or not) the healers in your group work together. There is a lot of Heal-spamming needed in raids, but there's also a need for healers to coordinate their emergency skills, and sometimes, having yours available sooner lets you cover for someone else if they unexpectedly can't use theirs. The amount of Vigor I have shaves off about 16 seconds out of 120 for Assumptio and Sanctuary, and 23 seconds for maxed Coluceo--these have made a difference for me several times. But in other situations, I'll feel it would've been easier if I could've casted Heal faster or had Gloria kick in more.


In short, I think it's very much up to personal preference, better in some situations and worse in others. And if you really want to take advantage of it, then I highly recommend saving up/farming mats for a crafted armor set.
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#33 Monstrix

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:45 PM

Thanks a lot! Everything is clear now.
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#34 Ballantin

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:06 AM

Great guide, and now I know why I used to have so many problems to heal, because all my heal skills are on the ALT+something bar...

Any advice, apart of moving them to other place, to fix or mitigate this?
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#35 synesthetic

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

I just keep my cursor in an open space. Click the name of a party member and immediately move my cursor back out. Alt-hotkeys are too comfortable for my hand for me to move my heals elsewhere.
No idea if there can or will be a fix for the issue, especially since it doesn't seem to affect everyone, but I have reported it before.

If you are comfortable with other hotkeys though, then you could just rebind all of the hotkey shortcuts to something else.
Esc > Shortcut Key > Custom Options
Maybe make it into a Ctrl-hotkey line or something. Or redo everything and make your own version of RO1's battlemode.
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#36 Suska

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:58 PM

Having followed this guide and diverged from it with a 650z skill reset, I feel a responsibility to offer my advice. I am very happy to have switched from a few of the views presented here, overall I think syn's guide was very helpful.

You can get all the full support skills and still have a wicked punch. I cannot recommend Heal, Gloria or Adoramus, max Holy Light and Resurrection and Coluseo etc. Like this:

Blackbird : http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

Tactically speaking, a wall of HoT with a couple solid fallback positions. I think this is pretty orthodox.

Constantly : REN
Routinely : (HW) > (ASP) > HH (if you need healing too at the time run up to your target)
Spot Failing : COL / ASS
Mass Failing : SANC

----healing

Heal is useless, does the same stuff as Highness Heal at about the same speed with an added movement and target limitation, the only thing it's good for is when you are under level 3 and haven't got Highness Heal yet. Highness Heal is better at Heal's own job.

Coluseo. whatever you've heard, I don't care, it is bad ass, so is Sanctuary, these are your fallbacks behind the routine and you can do almost all of this while on the move. Assumptio is nice too, in an every little bit helps kind of way, can't say I'm impressed, but it does buy time.

----movement

In a heal role with the given build the only limitation to constantly moving and casting that I know of are as follow:

*Holy Water requires you to be auto-moving and to hold the right mouse button down while you do it
*naturally Sanctuary requires you to stand still, but max Sanc is truly taking a stand
*you need to be auto-moving to stay moving while casting Aspersio

In an attack role Holy Light and Adoramus both require you to stand still.

I would like to add something here about what casts can be interrupted by movement during cast, I'm not sure actually, it seems like I've seen it happen both ways, at least for HL. I will experiment.

----attack

Gloria I don't have a bad opinion of necessarily, it's just not worth much even when you're getting lucky, let's face it Holy Light and Heal are slow regardless, on top of not being a priority.

Those people who say you don't need to max Holy Light are being silly, you don't need to but why wouldn't you - it is your only real weapon as a FS of the variety promoted here.

Adoramus is very slow to cast and cannot be cast on the move, casting on the move is a critical aspect of my build, sure Holy Light can't be cast while moving either but it packs a real punch. Oratio and Credo are quite nice and can be cast on the move, hit with those turn and fire an ASPed 5HL (or three) and you will certainly make an impression. I regard it as the inherent problem of the attacking Priest that it takes a long time to do this, but by itself it is a formidable strike.

----buffs

Basically the 9 attack points I spent feel well worth it, I have sacrificed NOTHING in Full Support, in fact I had enough to max Resurrection and while it may seem strange max res is also a great benefit. It is the difference between res every time you go into a dungeon or every other time - And IT IS YOUR JOB. Yes it is.

There are some other obvious skills, max Blessing is a must, Sacrament is hard to feel, but a 10% bonus has got to be worth something.

----

So there you have it. The Blackbird build. Nothing sacrificed in my full support role, and packs a sting. I really know nothing about Archangel builds so I can't compare them.

I personally don't put much credit in the idea of attack Priest, can't really say though. My working premise is that you'll never get an excellent DPS out of a priest. The only use for a DPS priest would then be just to be mildly surprising sometimes. That said, every character should have a capacity to attack with some degree of competence.

----

I've been calling Aqua Benedicta, Holy Water, probably shouldn't, oh well.

Edited by Suska, 15 June 2013 - 10:32 AM.

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#37 synesthetic

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

That's a hybrid build. A FS build has next-to-no offensive capability, hence they're "full" support. I only have offensive skills listed in my guide for the sake of completion in case anyone reading would find them appealing and decide to not go FS.

I have never played with any hybrid builds, so I have no input on them. All I know is that hybrids are amazingly versatile and varied, with even more heartache for people trying to figure out what build they like the most. I'm glad you're happy with yours.

Heal's not useless though. Asp+Heal is pretty handy for healing multiple scattered targets who are moderately wounded in as little time as possible. This doesn't happen much in dungeons, but it happens often enough in raids. And you can't keep everyone topped off with just Reno and HH there. The more often you have to rely on Heal, the more useful Gloria may feel.
Your raiding experience may be different depending on your group's dynamics though.
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#38 Suska

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

"That's a hybrid build"

I don't see where I've sacrificed anything in my support capacity. Your argument about heal doesn't match my experience, raids or otherwise. I can't honestly say it's anything but a terrible version of HH, even with gloria it's not noticeably faster than HH. Seriously I could not make a more full-support priest than this with the knowledge that I have. I grant maybe there's something nice down the Archangel route that if I wanted to drop all my attack skills I could make inroads on, but I doubt they would make me more full a support unit which in my view would still entail the strategy I've given. It's not that I mind the Hybrid label, I just don't see it.

EDIT: I can see where the term Full Support might mean 'lacking attack skills' if that's the case I'm honestly not interested. There's no need and it's a crippling condition.

Edited by Suska, 15 June 2013 - 09:15 AM.

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#39 SolidJelly

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:19 PM

As a support, why do you have 0 points in Recovery? If your main tank gets stunned/rooted/slowed etc. and cannot generate aggro for a few seconds, others might steal aggro off him and you might end up with a dead person.
Also, if you're supporting in WoE, if other players rush over and stun/immobilize/slow your melee and then kite them around, how can you fix that situation? Keep healing them until they eventually die?
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#40 Ballantin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:39 AM

I don't see where I've sacrificed anything in my support capacity. Your argument about heal doesn't match my experience, raids or otherwise. I can't honestly say it's anything but a terrible version of HH, even with gloria it's not noticeably faster than HH. Seriously I could not make a more full-support priest than this with the knowledge that I have. I grant maybe there's something nice down the Archangel route that if I wanted to drop all my attack skills I could make inroads on, but I doubt they would make me more full a support unit which in my view would still entail the skill sequence I described + a few fallback skills like coluseo and sanc. It's not that I mind the Hybrid label, I just don't see it.

EDIT: I can see where the term Full Support might mean 'lacking attack skills' if that's the case I'm honestly not interested. There's no need and it's a crippling condition.


Maybe we are playing different games... and it is clear that everyone got his/her own play style.

From my experience, being Hybrid at first and full support now, it is a huge and noticeable difference on the amount of damage that you are able to mitigate on your raid.

Sure, I loved my damage skills, with 2200 MAtk unbuffed, it was awesome. But I was restraining me to perform adequately in complicated raid encounters.

And for Heal, I think that you just are not used to it and to his mechanics. It is a very useful skill and a must use in some situations. Heal is always here for you, not like HH that got CD. Also Heal generates 3x less thread to monsters/adds than HH.

Both skills are good, and should be used wisely.

I can only suspect that you are not raiding, or if you are, you are not noticing your weak points because the other healers in the raid are covering it.

Thanks.
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#41 Suska

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:00 AM

"why do you have 0 points in Recovery?"

Mainly because of synesthetic's description. I don't know what it's worth. Obviously with a WoE to experience my position might change. "Immobility, Frozen, Polymorph, and Silence" all pass quicker than the time it takes to cast something, and likely as not I will be affected by them at the same time.

"I think that you just are not used to [Heal] and to his mechanics"

If that were the case I would not have an opinion. The effects you're talking about are marginal.

The cast delay on HH is nowhere near as disadvantaged as hitting one target at a time.

I'm not saying there isn't an argument for Heal, I'm saying that when I looked closely at that argument I realized spamming Heal is a fallback and that's what you have Sanc and Coluseo and Assumptio for. If you aren't pasting HoTs on everyone you're already losing ground that Heal won't be better than the strategy I've given is to deal with it, especially in the case that you have to pay attention to your own safety.

Heal is a really poor fallback, it locks you on to a single target, you have to stand still to do it, and almost as quickly you could be applying 3 equivalent heals with an added HoT effect.

I will grant that 'almost as quick' can be a big deal, in this case it doesn't seem to me to be so, the difference can easily be reduced to the margins once you start getting attacked, or if you're not paying attention, you're standing still, and locked into a long cast, and when it's done you have to hit it again while hoping that Gloria will mitigate how long it takes just a little bit. For my money that is a chump's strategy; Patch the hole or bring out a big gun like Sanc. If that's not enough you're character is just not ready for that battle yet and having Heal would not save the day.

Edited by Suska, 15 June 2013 - 01:06 PM.

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#42 Ballantin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:16 AM

I can not see the importance of keep moving at any time that you got. Sure you will need to move, but not every single second.

And as I said, Heal and HH complements one to other. You can use the Heal skill when HH is not available. It is you that are refusing to use all the tools at your hands.

Again, if this serves your play style and keep you going, good for you. But don't be so close minded and admit the useful of the heal skill, not alone, as we are not judging each skill separately, but as another tool to keep your raid alive.

Oh, just to clarify, I'm talking about PVE. Of course, Colo is a different matter.

EDIT to add a PS: If you are really interested, we can open a new thread to discuss about this matters, but I think that our different points of view are clear enough on this guide, and we should stop adding more arguing here, that will only distract the ones that come here to learn about the class.

Regards,

Aaron.

Edited by Ballantin, 15 June 2013 - 07:18 AM.

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#43 Suska

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:30 AM

"admit the useful of the heal skill"

It isn't useful. It's a blind alley full of healers who aren't looking at the numbers they get in actual practice.

I don't think I'm being closed minded, I gave Heal a chance, I explored it, I decided your skill points are better spent elsewhere, and nothing you've said has changed that. I know how Heal should be used, the fact is the way dungeon boss battles go in terms of timing and distribution of damage max Coluseo and Sanc can be used several times to dramatic effect while HoTs are not doing the trick. Blackbird has something like 15 skills to worry about as it is. Heal is the poor man's fallback, Gloria and high AGI and other skills as a way of making it useful by speeding cast and jamming crits in only means that sometimes it's wonderful, at the same time, with a much more economical cast system you could be leaving 4 figure numbers popping off the entire front line very consistently.

"Sure you will need to move, but not every single second"

I like to move, I don't always, but there's a reason for doing so. I don't mind you saying that's just my style, but I even do this while grinding. It's hard to move effectively under major stress, you can practice standing still or you can practice on the run, what you get during emergencies is usually what you practiced.

EDIT: Regarding your PS, my point in posting here was to address the OP. I regard Syn's guide as orthodox, there's nothing wrong with it. If you like heal go for it, but it needs to be said that practice taught me to just stop using it. I guess it sort of hinges on the fact that I think I'm justified calling Blackbird an FS even though I dropped Heal and maxed HL.

Edited by Suska, 15 June 2013 - 08:47 AM.

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#44 Ballantin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:43 AM

I still strongly disagree with your point of view, it can not be helped :)

So you can call me a poor man, as I use heal, as well as all of my other skills. It is clear that you will never admit heal in your family of loved spells, so no point on keep arguing.

Maybe we will meet some day in game you can teach me a lesson on how to properly heal. Since then, I will stick with my own way that, for me, used to work.

Regards.
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#45 Suska

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:01 AM

"You can use the Heal skill when HH is not available"

This is a fair point, however in my experience HH is never far away and you could be doing REN or loading ASP up at the same time, in fact my opinion comes from my reaction to the situation of considering hitting Heal while waiting for HH and realizing Heal doesn't give me the numbers to solve the problem and it gobbles up my freedom to do just that.

It may be so that a fast casting hard critin priest can do wonders with Heal spam - and that may even have something to do with internet speed - In my experience every time I resorted to it it wasn't enough, you still want to ASP, so it doesn't save time except in a real tight window, and then you get a heal rate which doesn't eclipse REN, only you're locked in place, you get all that at a snails pace to boot.

"no point on keep arguing"

Ya, obviously this is where we are simply comparing opinions, and I'm here for that, but you keep suggesting that I haven't examined my opinion. There are a lot of factors and the conditions are always changing, I'm ready to concede, y'know it's a game, but I satisfied my own criteria for whatever that's worth. Anyway I gave my reasons fairly clearly, it's for you to decide, and report on, and maybe I'll even change my mind.

Edited by Suska, 15 June 2013 - 12:46 PM.

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#46 SolidJelly

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:00 PM

Heal is for situations like these:

- Boss is pounding away at main tank ONLY.
- single target heal, Asp + Lv 5 Heal (3 crits) > Asp + Lv 5 HH
- You cast Reno already, Coluseo still on cooldown, Sanctuary still on cooldown, you just casted HH.
- What do? Only option left is spamming Heal
- Difference between lv 1 and lv 5 heal = 13%. Crits is double, so makes the difference 26%. 26% * 3 crits = 78%
- 3X Lv 1 crit heals vs 3X Lv 5 crit heals = 78% difference = difference between live tank / dead tank

Edited by SolidJelly, 15 June 2013 - 03:01 PM.

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#47 Ballantin

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

Heal is for situations like these:

- Boss is pounding away at main tank ONLY.
- single target heal, Asp + Lv 5 Heal (3 crits) > Asp + Lv 5 HH
- You cast Reno already, Coluseo still on cooldown, Sanctuary still on cooldown, you just casted HH.
- What do? Only option left is spamming Heal
- Difference between lv 1 and lv 5 heal = 13%. Crits is double, so makes the difference 26%. 26% * 3 crits = 78%
- 3X Lv 1 crit heals vs 3X Lv 5 crit heals = 78% difference = difference between live tank / dead tank


Strongly agree with you :)

Plus healing spreaded members all taking damage (so HH will not reach all).
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#48 toskene

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

Are there any spells that would take priority in maxing over others?
For example, should I max Col.Heal before Sanctuary?
Which spells are best for instances on the way to 50?
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#49 SolidJelly

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 08:57 PM

Are there any spells that would take priority in maxing over others?
For example, should I max Col.Heal before Sanctuary?
Which spells are best for instances on the way to 50?

If you are going hybrid, get your damage skills 1st to help you grind faster, then max Aspersio next.
As for your healing skills, max Renovatio 1st, followed by Highness Heal or Heal, then Assumptio, Sanctuary then Sacrament. I would just leave Coluseo Heal at lv 1, you can pretty much only use it once per boss, it's not something to be relied on as part of your healing tools. Think of it as a second Resurrection button.
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#50 synesthetic

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

For a FS, I would say...

Lv.1 Reno first.
Max Aspersio.
Max HH and Reno.
- save points until Priest -
Max Assumptio.

Then do whatever you feel is best up to 50, depending on your build, playstyle, dungeon experience, etc.
If max Blessing is in your build, I'd leave it for last, even though you may get some social stigma for it. You really shouldn't need the HP boost pre-raids, while everything else you can get would benefit you immediately.


I don't know what the average dungeon party is like anymore, so I don't know how apt people are to huddle together or run to Sanctuary for healing. (Last I recall, people I partied with didn't bother running to it, and some would even run out of effects like LoR...) But I'd have to say that if you like relying on it for group healing, then work on leveling that to whatever your planned level is after Assumptio.
For dungeons, I wasn't in a position to rely on it since I knew no one would group up for it, so I just left it for second-to-last.

If you plan on leveling Coluceo higher than 1, then I'd level it sooner depending on how often your parties make you wish it were off cooldown. Same with Resurrection.
My parties would accidentally pull extra monsters. A lot. So I found myself alternating between Assumptio and Coluceo more often than I would've liked.

Aside from those, I'd put Heal, Gloria, and Archangel on about equal priority. I honestly don't remember what order I leveled those on different characters anymore. But they're all good, with varying effectiveness depending on how you play.
If you have something like a Pandora's Mace early on, however, I would consider getting Archangel sooner. Makes soloing bosses even easier; while your boosted HoTs are going, you can comfortably attack instead of alternating between heals/attacks/kiting.

Suffragium on lower priority.

Meditatio on lowest priority, since you probably wouldn't have the gear to really benefit from it until much later.

Inc.Agi and Angelus on please-don't priority.
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