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Full Support Sorcerer Guide & Discussion


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#1 kohppa

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:55 AM

Introduction


Greetings and salutations, everyone!

My name is Cyprias. I am currently a level 28 FS Sorc in the guild Havoc. I will be writing a guide for you today on the Full Support Sorcerer. I'd like to start off by thanking you for reading my guide. It is very kind of you to visit. This is my first guide, so please don't hate if my formatting is weird or anything. I'm open for suggestions and tips!

As a foreword, I would like to say that I fully acknowledge the fact that my lack of knowledge and experience may lead to some incorrect information. That is why I named this thread "Guide & Discussion", so that we can fact check, update, and maintain a guide that will help people now and in the future. My idea with this thread is to kind of "live-update" it as I'm leveling so I can test to see what works and what doesn't. Please try to be patient and understanding with information that changes.

If you see incorrect information, please feel free to contact me about it through a PM or a reply to this thread and I will change it if necessary. Please keep this thread free from flaming, bashing, and/or negative remarks aimed at me or the FS Sorcerers on our server.

This guide is incomplete and a work in progress. Please be patient with me as I continue updating and adding more information. Thanks!


Timeline

  • 5/9/2013 - Guide Started - Added Skeleton Outline, Skill Descriptions, Beginning of Boss List
  • 5/10/2013 - Moved some information around regarding builds and leveling. Added a skill description for Rejuvenation. Changed wording on the tl;dr. Will be updating some more information soon. Changed the "Leveling-to-full-support" to better reflect what a level 25 Sorcerer should/could look like. Added contributor information in bolded orange. Added boss tips for Normal Temple of the Sea God. Added a "Normal" and "Hard" separation in the Boss section.

tl:dr (BEFORE YOU READ)

  • This guide is for FULL SUPPORT SORCERERS ONLY. I will not be discussing anything about damage builds, hybrid builds, damaging skills, how to maximize DPS, why Sorc over Wizard, etc. If you would like a better breakdown of Sorcerers, please check out Kiyoshiro's Random Guide for Sorcerers.
  • Sorcerers CAN solo heal dungeons. It is harder and a lot of people will doubt you...but you are fully capable of healing most, if not all, dungeons without the aid of a Priest (or other healing class).
  • While Sorcerers can heal, Priests are definitely the "main healer" in this game, as the base healing from their skills is higher they have more supportive skills than a Sorcerer does. ( - Synesthetic)
  • Priests - More supportive skills, a "safer" healer.
  • Sorcerers - Higher magic stats from equipment, more consistent AoE Healing, better at being a "support" healer rather than a "main" healer. ( - Synesthetic)
  • Which is better? It doesn't matter. Play what YOU want to play, even if it's the harder, less popular choice. I prefer Sorcerer because their skills are earth and water based, instead of light based, and I think that's cool! :ani_wow:

Table of Contents

  • Terminology
  • Sorcerer Skill Descriptions (Support Skills Only)
  • How do you build a Full Support Sorcerer? [Coming Soon]
    • Stat Points
    • Skill Builds
    • Cards
  • Leveling a Full Support Sorcerer [Coming Soon]
  • Priest vs. Sorcerer Skill Comparison [Coming Soon]
  • List of Dungeons Completed as a Solo Healer Sorcerer w/ Boss Tips [Coming Soon]

1. Terminology

  • Sorcerer (Sorc) - The class this guide is about! To become a Sorcerer, you make a Magician base class and level it to 25. From there, you get the Job Class change to Sorcerer, complete it, and then you become a Sorcerer!
  • Full Support (FS) - This means the character/player has prioritized supportive skills over damaging skills, putting them completely into a support role.
  • Heal over Time (HoT) - Any heal that is not a direct burst heal, but rather restores health over a period of time.
  • Area-of-Effect (AoE) - Any skill that affects an area rather than a single target.
  • Dispel - A skill that removes status effects from an enemy or ally. For clarity purposes, Dispel will refer to the ally-oriented negative status removing skill that both Priests and Sorcerers have in this game.
  • Buff - No, this does not mean that your character is a macho man with huge muscles. Buffs are skills that characters obtain that either give themselves or others higher stats for a limited amount of time. (I.E., Earth Shield gives your whole party 20% increased defense)
  • Cooldown (CD) - Cooldown refers to the time between when you use a skill and when it becomes available for use again.

2. Sorcerer Skill Descriptions

  • Earth Seal - 5/5 - Increases all healing by 20/40/60/80/100% and applies a heal over time that heals for 20/23/25/28/30% of magic power when your heal crits. This is your bread and butter. If you are a support Sorc, you MUST have this skill maximized. It doubles the amount of healing you do with all healing skills. Healing without this will make you nearly useless as a healer and completely useless as a main healer.
  • Healing Wave - 5/5 - Heals a single target for 12/13/14/16/17% Magic Power (Earth Seal = 24/26/28/32/34%). This is your spam heal. Max it. Pretty self explanatory.
  • Rejuvenation - 1~5/5 - Heals a single target for 18/21/23/25/27% Magic Power (Earth Seal = 36/42/46/50/54%). The usefulness of this skill is debatable, as the "instant cast" description of the skill is incorrect. There is about a 1.5 second delay on the skill and an 8 second CD, which can easily be replaced with 2 Healing Waves. ( - Indaliceo) I prefer maxing Rejuvenation, as I feel more comfortable having another heal. In the end it is up to you though.
  • Soul Binding - 1~3/3 - This is your resurrection skill. At level 1, it is on a 50 minute CD...but at level 3 it's only down to a 30 min CD. Maxing this is up to you.
  • Earth Shield - 5/5 - This skill provides a party/raid wide buff that increases all members' defense by 4/8/12/16/20%. As a support, this is a very useful skill. MAX IT!
  • Land of Recovery - 5/5 - Heals all party/raid members in an area on the ground around the target for 7/8/9/10/11% (Earth Seal = 14/16/18/20/22%) every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. This is your main AoE heal. It's very useful, but be warned, it's not really an 'oh "oops" heal. It helps for sustaining and if pre-casted, could potentially save members from being killed during a huge attack
  • Soul Cleansing - 1/5 - Removes all debuffs from 1/2/3/4/5 party members in the target area. At this point in the game, there is really no reason to use this skill, as most of the debuffs in this game do not last for long AND because this dispel rarely removes status effects. Put 1 point in it to move further down the tree and then forget about it.
  • Meditation = 1/5 - Effect increases when Healing skill applies as a critical heal by 340/380/420/460/500% exceeding 95% of Accuracy. Basically, this skill increases your crit heals by a percentage based off of your total Accuracy stat whenever you crit heal. But since your Accuracy stat doesn't ever really get that high...this skill becomes useless. Put 1 point in it and then move on.
  • Deluge - 5/5 - Summons a water spirit to increase max HP of all party/raid members by 4/8/12/16/20% for 10 seconds. Also heals HP equivalent to magic power of 26/29/32/35/39% (Earth Seal = 52/58/64/70/78%) THIIIIIIIS is your 'Oh "Oops" AoE heal. This skill is EXCELLENT! The only downside is that the effect application time is kind of slow and the CD is pretty long in comparison. MAX IT!

And for now, those are all of your support skills!



3. How do you build a Full Support Sorcerer?


Stat Points

Being a magic class, Sorcerers should focus on Intelligence (INT) and Agility (AGI) with an occasional build adding Vitality (VIT). For clarification purposes, my descriptions will be written as AGI/INT/VIT.


Balance - 40/40/8 - This is a generic build. Most classes follow this for their builds, as it provides an all-around balance in stats.
Balanced #2 (AKA Who needs VIT? Not me.) - 41/41 - This sacrifices the menial amount of VIT to give you an additional point in both INT and AGI. From the research I've done, the common consensus is that 8 points in VIT is not going to make a difference in anything.
Crit Heavy (AKA I'LL HEAL YOUR FACE OFF) - 51/27/3 - Untested. I hypothesize that this build will maximize your crit healing potential, procing Earth Shield like CRAZY. But you may suffer from overall lower healing due to the lack of INT. There are talks that it is easier to replace lost INT through gear and cards than it is to replace lost AGI. ( -Indaliceo)
Power Healer (...I'm at a loss for this one) - 27/51/3 - Untested. For this one, I hypothesize that you would have very high base heals with a super low crit chance, making the proc of Earth Seal very rare. This may or may not hurt you, depending on how useful you see the HoT that comes from Earth Seal.





Skill Points

100% True Full Support Build - If you are dead set on having only 100% support skills, this is the build for you. (Ignore the stat points for now. I messed them up). I personally would not do this build because the excess points in Meditation, Soul Cleansing, and Soul Binding could be better spent, in my opinion. This build gives you all buffs, healing skills, and dispel maxed, as well as lowest CD for your resurrection. You also get Meditation, which will give you that slight increase to critical healing. You also get a maxed Frost Diver with this build, which could help you hold CC on mobs or in PvP. This build leaves you EXTREMELY weak in the offensive department, as you are left with mostly your beginning skills and 1 point into Summon Aqua.



Cards


4. Leveling a Full Support Sorcerer


Leveling-to-Full Support Build - At level 25 after your class change, put 1 skill point into each skill down the lightning tree to Jupter/Jupitel Thunder. After that, go down the ice/water tree with 1 point each until you unlock Earth Seal and Healing Wave. From there, MAX Earth Seal and Healing Wave right away and then put 1 skill point into each of your support skills (the left and middle columns). From there, it is really up to your discretion on how to finish out this build.

If healing more, I would alternate points between only your healing skills, while avoiding Meditation and Soul Cleansing after allocating 1 point in them to access the skills that come further down the line, as they do not provide very much benefit at this point in the game.

If soloing more, I would focus on getting Jupter/Jupitel Thunder to max level and maybe even Wind Arms (for the extra damage procs), then start rotating my points through my healing skills.


5. Priest vs. Sorcerer Skill Comparison


6. List of Dungeons Completed as a Full Support Sorcerer w/ Boss Tips



Normal Mode

Izlude Cave
  • Vadon King - Cleared 5/8/2013.
    • Very easy to heal.
  • Penomena - Cleared 5/8/2013.
    • He is somewhat hard to heal. Make sure you kill the pre-existing adds before the fight and get your team to pull the summoned adds off of you. Pay attention to who is poisoned (Their HP will plummet) and make sure you focus heal them. Pop potions when necessary. Some say it is easier to have your whole party stand on the Tank and heal from there instead of having ranged keep distance. I have not tested this yet.
Temple of the Sea God
  • Mortal Nukaruka - Cleared 5/8/2013.
  • Vanuatu - Cleared 5/8/2013.
    • Pretty easy tank and spank. Make sure your party does not line-of-sight your heals. Get your tank or a DPS to keep adds off you as they spawn.
  • Leviathan - Cleared 5/8/2013.
    • Slightly difficult depending on your party make-up. Make sure that your party knows the fight. If they don't, teach them. BRING PLENTY OF POTIONS and remind your party to do the same. Try to convince your melee DPS and maybe the tank, depending on their skill, to dodge the massive blue circle AoE. Avoid the whirlpool and pay close attention to who Leviathan is tossing his black clouds at - they will need focus healing for a bit until he's done.

Hard Mode


Edited by kohppa, 10 May 2013 - 10:16 AM.

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#2 kohppa

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:07 AM

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#3 kohppa

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:09 AM

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#4 Indaliceo

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:25 AM

In reguards to your FS build, honestly I would consider dropping 4 points from rejuv. It SAYS it's insta cast but the animation lockdown is somewhere around 1.5 seconds and at max rank barely out heals healing wave. You can get off 2 healing waves in the time it takes rejuv to finish casting so it feels kind of pointless to me personally. Also not maxing meditation, again kinda feels simply like a filler talent to me. I'd much rather put those 8 points into maxing seal of water with a single point in JT so you have a way to kill mobs if you decide to go farm for a card or do a daily quest.

Also the argument for a more agi than int stat build seems to be it's easier to make up the lost int via cards and equipment, and the extra crit at least on paper would vastly increase your overall healing efficiency. Hard to say how it works in practice though till I try it. Which won't be till I have some spare money to toss at RO2 later this month.
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#5 synesthetic

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:05 AM

  • While Sorcerers can heal, Priests are definitely the "main healer" in this game, as the base healing from their skills is higher and overall, they have more supportive skills than a Sorcerer does.
  • Priests - Higher base healing, more defensive buffs and skills, easier time healing.

The base healing on priests' skills may be higher, but sorcs get significantly more magic attack and AGI on their equipment. As an example, compare these weapons: Sorc vs. Priest.
The sorc one has a good 23% more magic attack on it.

If you were to do a comparison between the two class's basic single-target heals, sorcs win. Assuming both are at max level and the sorc has Earth Seal active, Heal does 43% and Healing Wave does 34%. That makes Heal about 26% stronger than Healing Wave. But as I said, sorcs get more magic attack, so the difference there becomes negligible.
But to heavily slant things in sorc's favor, Healing Wave has 0.5-sec cast time against Heal's 1-sec, and it can proc an HoT for an additional 30% on crit (which sorcs do often enough).

(Also, LoR does 22% in an AoE. Priest's beloved Renovatio does 22% on a single target. Since sorc has higher matk, LoR would do more.)


Now, of course, priests don't rely on Heal for the majority of their work, but my point is that "base healing" from skills isn't much of a deciding factor between the two classes.
The fact that priests have many more supportive skills, -that- is what really sets the two apart and what makes a priest the "safer" healer.
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#6 kohppa

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:46 AM

In reguards to your FS build, honestly I would consider dropping 4 points from rejuv.

Also not maxing meditation, again kinda feels simply like a filler talent to me.

I know. That build is more so to fulfill the intent of the phrase "true full support" by maxing all of the support abilities, regardless of their usefulness. I plan on making another "realistic full support" build that accommodates the usefulness of certain skills over others.

Also the argument for a more agi than int stat build seems to be it's easier to make up the lost int via cards and equipment, and the extra crit at least on paper would vastly increase your overall healing efficiency. Hard to say how it works in practice though till I try it. Which won't be till I have some spare money to toss at RO2 later this month.

I agree. My personal opinion is that having a high base crit and focusing on building INT from gear and cards would be an overall better healer. But, I haven't had a chance to test this as I'm only level 31 and I've already spent $25 on skill resets and exp boosts...so it'll be a while before I can invest anymore.

Thank you for your input! :)


The base healing on priests' skills may be higher, but sorcs get significantly more magic attack and AGI on their equipment.

The fact that priests have many more supportive skills, -that- is what really sets the two apart and what makes a priest the "safer" healer.

That is a very good point. I didn't think of it that way. I'll make sure to make the edit! Thank you for clarifying that :)


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#7 Tlaltecuhtli

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

Good Day,

i read your post and it is a nice guide for a full support sorc.

however,i am one of those people(or i am the only one) that thinks, going FS or FDPS for a sorc is a complete nonsense and that being a sorc you should accept that your job class should do two kinds of tasks - Deal Heavy Burst Damage and Constant Heal over Time.

And with it, i shall just add some overview of the sorc i am playing and i hope youll get an idea and apply it to your FS build.

1. Full Agi Sorcs with crit rate above 30% heals better than Full INT as it doubles the heal value of your skills and critical heals procures most of the time.
ex: AGI DPS: 300 300 600 300 300 heals is better than FS INT: 350 350 350 350 350 unless that full int full support randomly crits.
  • Going crit, you may put skill points to offensive skills instead of getting
* +1% heal increase each point to Healing Wave.
* 27% max rejuvenation - out healed with Healing Wave Spam
* Meditation as it just add +% crit heal pass over 95% hit rate(i maybe wrong with this: 96% hit rate brings about 5% increase heal on crit)
  • LOR crits too, but not Deluge, either way both must be maxed except for higher raids when you have your deluge skill plan with another sorc( different level of deluge makes its HP% increase stack!)
2 . Max both Earth and Wind and learn switching arms during your skill cycles. Earth for Heal % increase and Wind for Haste and chance of procuring x2-x4 bursts.
3. You should NOT HEAL all the time since in a standard raid you may have 2-3 sorcs and 1-2 priests so switching stances maximize your sorc`s ability. Let the priest do most of the single target heals and you should stick on emergency single target heals, keeping LOR up and timing of Deluge vs Monster skill.
4. Higher raids needs a lot of damage dealers and healers! and with a good sorc build, you can just apply for both! XD

i hope this helps.

Edited by Tlaltecuhtli, 10 May 2013 - 09:17 PM.

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#8 Owlsu

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

How's this?

http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
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#9 4717130502154318780

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

Just sharing some experience, under normal circumstances, the different between full int and full agi stats allocations are 48 spell power, taking into the effect of earth arm. That factor into around 8 healing each Healing Wave spam at max level. However, 24 points of agi roughly equals (just some raw observations while switching between builds, haven't look into the hard numbers yet) to 4-5% of crit. Crit spell = double effect, hence that would equal a roughly 9% extra heal on long run. By taking into the account of 1 point in meditation and 95.48% accuracy, that roughly equates to 34%*0.09*0.48*340%= roughly 50% sp per heal waves, that's 16% extra healing for each heal wave (considered that rejuv has identical sp coefficient scaling as healing wave), which is almost 50% more healing on long run. The fact that such number scale with gear means the superiority of agi over int will become bigger as we get higher tier gear or more points in meditation. (sorry for the single paragraph, for some reason I couldn't use my enter key) However, it would be a pain in the butt to level up as healer with pure agi as I did. I remember the first instance I did after changing job was izlude cave and I had hard time healing Vadon King. It didn't end well with people abusing my class. I went pure healing built, with following built:

1 point in each magician cold and lightning spell, summon aqua, soul cleansing, soul binding, Jupiter Thunder, JT Mastery.

I went 5 points in Foresight, meditation, healing waves, earth shield, earth arm, deluge, land of recovery, rejuvenation

The other thing as a sorcerer healer is that you'll need to remind the tank to tank in the green circle, so it's easier to heal up all melees.

Only thing we might be lacking is the emergency button, may it be healing or mitigation, we don't have equivalent of Colosseu Heal (instant top up target cd) and Assumptio (damage reduction up to 40% on target). I'm satisfied with earth shield making up for Angelus and Earth Arm itself making up for Archangel, im not sure if the extra from Deluge and Earth Shield could make up for Blessing, Gloria and Suffragium though (Maybe perhaps the crit HoTs would make up for gloria considered that RO's hots and dots doesn't scale based on threshold as it did in wow)

Rejuv is just an outcast child of Highness Heal. Even that Foresight offer 3 instant cast, but honestly, it's really more for instant land of recovery. RO2 has almost 1.5 sec of gcd (Global Cooldown) on spells, which means to cast 3 instant spell, it will take roughly 4 sec or so, this means that foresight will never ever be close to the benefit of colloseau heal, not to mention that 3 instant cast of any of our heal will probably insufficient to top up a tank, which means even if they modify the spell to make it 1 instant cast with 3x effect, it will still unable to make up for the godly Colloseau Heal. We will also need to invest in more off healing spells in order to gain Foresight, which is another down side.

What sorcerer healer lacking behind priest healer are the emergency button, honestly we could use one of em, giving us one of either Collo Heal or Assumptio instead of Priest having all would make both class more balanced. I didn't even mention the active mana regen of Aqua Benedicta and Aspersio. So all and all, Sorcerer will always be inferior to Priest in healing department from the current make.

Oh wait, im a lil off topic here, last but not least, lag will kill more sorcerer's tank than priest's tank. If your connection is perfect then the slight inferiority should be able to be made up by skills superiority.

Edited by 4717130502154318780, 14 May 2013 - 10:51 PM.

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#10 synesthetic

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:05 PM

Just sharing some experience, under normal circumstances, the different between full int and full agi stats allocations are 48 spell power, taking into the effect of earth arm. That factor into around 8 healing each Healing Wave spam at max level. However, 24 points of agi roughly equals (just some raw observations while switching between builds, haven't look into the hard numbers yet) to 4-5% of crit. Crit spell = double effect, hence that would equal a roughly 9% extra heal on long run. By taking into the account of 1 point in meditation and 95.48% accuracy, that roughly equates to 34%*0.09*0.48*340%= roughly 50% sp per heal waves, that's 16% extra healing for each heal wave (considered that rejuv has identical sp coefficient scaling as healing wave), which is almost 50% more healing on long run. The fact that such number scale with gear means the superiority of agi over int will become bigger as we get higher tier gear or more points in meditation.

I recommend that you spend a moment to read through part 2 on Rates. Rates decrease as you level, and by Lv.50, it'd take 10-11 AGI to get 1% Crit Rate.

Regarding superiority of AGI over INT, it depends on how much magic attack and crit rate you have. I tried to explain it some in that thread, too.
I don't know how much matk and crit sorcs can achieve by endgame, but if you want to figure it out, Gabriel sells all of the first tier Hard-Mode epic equipment. So take the stats from the "Suit" equipment and one of the scythes, factor in your cards of choice, and a title (I think Goblin Leader's gave about 32 to AGI/INT?), and you have the base amount to work with.

Offhand, I don't think that sorcs can reach that breakpoint where, point for point, AGI is better than INT. But AGI is still valuable for the crit rate when considering Earth Seal's HoT proc off of Healing Wave crits.

Your stats from leveling don't affect your gameplay -too- much in the long run, but the cumulative stat bonuses you can get from being very highly funded would make a big difference. Slotted costumes and enhanced runes (+6-10 to a stat), buffs/food/pots/etc. Once you start considering all of that, you may wonder which is more useful: 200 AGI or 200 INT?
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#11 4717130502154318780

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:56 AM

Ah ok. My bad on that, didn't go into too much hard numbers behind. I was comparing my sorc with my priest, by going pure healing, sorc really lag behind due to the lack of emergency skills besides deluge and probably foresighted (???). Besides the skills I mentioned, Aqua benedicta and Aspersio are able to further enhance a priest's healing arsenal.

Can't say I regret levelling a sorc, but the feeling of inferior in the department I want to involve is just not cool.

Would love to know how other healing sorc deal with spike dmg from boss, not sure if im lagging or the GCD for the skills are just long.
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#12 kohppa

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 02:23 AM

Ah ok. My bad on that, didn't go into too much hard numbers behind. I was comparing my sorc with my priest, by going pure healing, sorc really lag behind due to the lack of emergency skills besides deluge and probably foresighted (???). Besides the skills I mentioned, Aqua benedicta and Aspersio are able to further enhance a priest's healing arsenal.

Can't say I regret levelling a sorc, but the feeling of inferior in the department I want to involve is just not cool.

Would love to know how other healing sorc deal with spike dmg from boss, not sure if im lagging or the GCD for the skills are just long.


Everyone I've seen writes off Rejuvenation because of the cast time and CD time but that's where I get my biggest heals from. I agree that it does take too long, but another heal is another heal in my book and it's saved my party from wipes more than once. People also say that a Sorc without DPS skills is a useless Sorc. I also run 3-4/5 on all my healing skills except Soul Binding, Soul Cleansing, and Meditation...which again has proven healing to be an easy task for me in most dungeons.

Don't go completely off what people say. Figure out what works for you and the way you want to play your character and run with it. Sure, in a PUGs you might be looked down on for your little damage output but once you make some good friends or join a guild and show them what you can do, you'll be set.
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#13 Owlsu

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:22 AM

Ah ok. My bad on that, didn't go into too much hard numbers behind. I was comparing my sorc with my priest, by going pure healing, sorc really lag behind due to the lack of emergency skills besides deluge and probably foresighted (???). Besides the skills I mentioned, Aqua benedicta and Aspersio are able to further enhance a priest's healing arsenal.

Can't say I regret levelling a sorc, but the feeling of inferior in the department I want to involve is just not cool.

Would love to know how other healing sorc deal with spike dmg from boss, not sure if im lagging or the GCD for the skills are just long.


I still can't really work out which situations suit healing sorcs best and which suit priests best. I've been doing a load of dungeons to try and get a general feel of what I can and can't do (Often with a priest in the party too so I can compare myself to how they are coping)

I've noticed that when everyone is taking damage at the same time or loads of AOE boss/add damage that my LoR seems to heal better than the priests I've been with who typically have to single target heal people. Even with their healing move that heals them and 2 other people it usually isn't enough.

LoR + Deluge in moments like this pretty much ensure we always survive what's going on as well.

But then again when a single player like a main tank is taking gigantic amounts of single target damage from a boss I struggle to heal more than they're being hit quite often, whereas a priest can easily heal it all and cast coluseo heal if the general healing isn't good enough to ensure the tank survives.

For just normal enemies in dungeons that aren't bosses I feel that 90% of the time that just LoR with the odd healing wave every now and then is more than enough to keep people alive and at full health.

With earth arms (5), healing wave (5), LoR (5) and meditation (1), the amount of healing you can do even at low levels is really high - A typical healing wave at combat level 30 is healing people for about 95-110 health, and each heal from LoR is about 100 odd.

Out of 5 healing waves, about 2 of them will crit, healing about 320 and then for 6 seconds healing an addition 60 health every 2 seconds. Then on top of that the LoR is constantly hitting 100's with a few crits as well healing for 200-ish.

So with a tank taking moderate damage, over the course of about 8 seconds, they're getting healed for around 1700 health from both healing wave, LoR and crits...and both yourself and 3 additional players who are standing in the massive LoR range are getting healed for about 600 health when more often than not they haven't even taken any significant amount of damage that needs healing anyway. The most health I've even seen a tank have at this kind of combat level is about 1300.

I'm kind of going off topic here and I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make but generally speaking, when people say how inferior sorcs are at healing than priests this is only true if you need massive amounts of instant healing right there and then. If you only need a steady stream of healing over a duration and there isn't a high chance that someone can be instantly killed in 2 seconds of not being healed then both classes are quite close in their capability.

I'm sure priests really shine at very late game though, where you are up against bosses that can almost instantly kill people and you need every single last little buff you can get to ensure you survive.

So far I've solo healed Wolf Cave, Izlude Cave, Temple of the Sea God and am working my way through the Forest Tomb for the second time.

Edited by Owlsu, 16 May 2013 - 03:31 AM.

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#14 kohppa

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:05 AM

When people say how inferior sorcs are at healing than priests, this is only true if you need massive amounts of instant healing right there and then. If you only need a steady stream of healing over a duration and there isn't a high chance that someone can be instantly killed in 2 seconds of not being healed then both classes are quite close in their capability.


Agreed.

Truth be told, I'm getting very tired of having to justify myself as a healer. I'm level 41 and I've had absolutely no problem solo healing anything up to Hell of Deadly Poison. It can be rough and there might be a death or two, but in the end we still complete it in a single try unless someone REALLY messes it up. In fact, I've surprised many people because they didn't think Sorcs could heal and at the end of a successful run, many have said "Wow, you really showed me what Sorcs can do."

But as I experienced this morning, most people don't trust Sorcerers for healing. After the first mob pull in HoDP, the tank's HP was not capped off at 100% and our Assassin said "I don't think your heals are going to be enough for this dungeon." They kept pulling and we wiped on the first boss because, indeed, my healing wasn't enough. So I was told that we couldn't do the dungeon and some of the party quit.

They didn't take into account that the tank was not pulling aggro off of me and our Wizard was AFK. They also failed to see that despite the Tank instructing people to kill the eggs that spawn from the boss, no one but me was attempting to do that - taking away from my healing and enabling the adds to spawn because I HAVE NO DPS...

So yeah, my frustration levels are extremely high with this class right now. Having almost reached level cap, I'm seconds away from re-rolling because the community is not open to new ideas or cooperation.

:(
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#15 Owlsu

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

Agreed.

Truth be told, I'm getting very tired of having to justify myself as a healer. I'm level 41 and I've had absolutely no problem solo healing anything up to Hell of Deadly Poison. It can be rough and there might be a death or two, but in the end we still complete it in a single try unless someone REALLY messes it up. In fact, I've surprised many people because they didn't think Sorcs could heal and at the end of a successful run, many have said "Wow, you really showed me what Sorcs can do."

But as I experienced this morning, most people don't trust Sorcerers for healing. After the first mob pull in HoDP, the tank's HP was not capped off at 100% and our Assassin said "I don't think your heals are going to be enough for this dungeon." They kept pulling and we wiped on the first boss because, indeed, my healing wasn't enough. So I was told that we couldn't do the dungeon and some of the party quit.

They didn't take into account that the tank was not pulling aggro off of me and our Wizard was AFK. They also failed to see that despite the Tank instructing people to kill the eggs that spawn from the boss, no one but me was attempting to do that - taking away from my healing and enabling the adds to spawn because I HAVE NO DPS...

So yeah, my frustration levels are extremely high with this class right now. Having almost reached level cap, I'm seconds away from re-rolling because the community is not open to new ideas or cooperation.

:(



You know just a little bit before I saw your reply, I said to myself that I think I've pretty much answered my own question in my post -

Priests = The best single target healing, best overall level of buffs, near infinite mana, an almost equal level of AOE healing and when we (Finally) get the resurrection cooldown changed to 5/4/3 minutes - with Aspersio a much better instant res.

Sorcerer = Very good AOE healing, a few of the same buffs, a great 20% defence buff and a spam-able heal that on paper looks more effective than the priests, yet due to lag, global cooldown and dungeon AOE spam causing slowdown it ends up healing less because it can't be casted fast enough.

I seriously hate to say this but I've just thrown away 31 levels and re-rolled as a Priest :(

I just kind of got sick of it as a Sorcerer really, constantly getting into parties and being told that we need a Priest too as I can't heal...or not being able to keep a tank alive because my single target heal just isn't strong enough and feeling guilty because I've let my party down.

I was really worried about end-game too while things are fun now and I was getting along fine in most cases, things were really starting to get harder at 30+ and my confidence as a main healer really started to drop. I went from saying in every party that we don't need a Priest and that I can do it myself to saying "Err yeah...I think we need healer for this..." Just because I didn't trust my own skills being good enough to carry us through. Also if you fail as a Priest people will usually just say try again and go back in, if you fail as a Sorc after promising everyone you're good enough and can do it alone you just get abused or kicked out afterwards.

The same thing happened to me as you, we often failed things not because I was bad or anything but because certain classes (Mainly tanks) seem to think they can pull an entire room and I can heal through it all...I can't.

I honestly wish you the best of luck for carrying on as one, you seem to known what you're doing and I'm glad people are surprised you can carry a team with your skills.

End-game I think that the massive single target heals combined with the very fast res cooldown and instant casting of it will serve me better overall as a healer so I think I'm going to be better suited as a Priest...which is my only other choice really since I want to be a 100% support class.

If things are this bad now at these levels (From other players attitude wise) it will be a nightmare for sorc's at 50 odd in raids etc.

Edited by Owlsu, 16 May 2013 - 07:04 AM.

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#16 Tlaltecuhtli

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:33 AM

now,now, easy guys!

sorcs are FUN!

again guys, theres no such thing as pure FS or pure DPS sorc.

if you will be making such, please make some other class like ranger/wiz for dps and priests for FS.

a sorc is by default, a hybrid! deal with it and a party who does not understand what a sorc can do is not worth the raid time.

find a guild, learn from each other, learn when to cast what and what to do when.

lastly, if you are not comfortable with switching stances for dps and fs, do not make a sorc.

gotta love sorcs!
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#17 Adamage

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:43 AM

I'm tired of people mixing up priests and sorcs on single target and aoe healing.

First of all, the healing stance for sorc DOUBLES the healing done. Which literally makes the .5 second castes heal for sorc double what heal spam from priests do ( and they shouldn't be spamming it, more follows.) and land of recovery is localized. Unless the raid is about to take a lot of damage it should sit on the tank(melee group)

Priests have renovation, which can be practically kept up on everyone, coupled with aspersion plus highness heal ( which doubles the heal and puts a hot for that amount on three targets). The heal from priests should only be used in emergencies or as filler if hots are up on the ones that take damage. Reno is like LoR except it can be kept up on ranges that are spread.
If you combine the 2 classes, you have a single target healer coupled with a crazy good hot class.

If you are trying to hybrid you literal cut your healing from LoR by half, and ignore the massive single target heals that sorc can do via wave spam.
Not to mention the fact its impossible to properly heal when you are constantly casting dps skills. Foresight is wasted since the only casts are .5sec and every 8 or less ( vigor drops cd) for LoR ( the overlaps stack the heals from it as well) deluge is instant with a long ass delay( foresight does nothing for this).

Edited by Adamage, 04 June 2013 - 07:46 AM.

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#18 1479130515162739107

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:29 AM

Well this topic started out strong, but the morale for the FS Sorc has plummented. Rather disheartening.

I started out with a FS Priest to immitate what I had going in RO1, but I got extremely bored with her. At least in RO1, they could "heal bomb" undead, which was better than just spamming Holy Light over and over again. (boring!)
I was about to just give up when I read that GASP! Sorcerers can become healers, too! So I re-rolled a mage, even gimped my DPS talents by saving til I changed to dump the bulk of it into healing talents! I was still able to kill things swifter as a gimped mage than I was with a gimped priest! I was also so excited because the rotation for solo'ing was much more fun and fit my playstyle (kiting FTW!).

So.... is FS Sorc now a moot point?
Did the OP (kohppa) give up and re-roll?

Sure, the AoE heals are great and I've only healed up to Abandoned Labs (which isn't that big of an accomplishment being that the dungeon is short and simple, but hey, I'm only level 37!)
I've also been in PuGs where they doubted my ability to heal and brought in a priest as well. They see "Sorcerer" and even though I type/list myself as a HEALER, they tell me to DPS. Well, thank goodness there isn't a DPS meter in this game. *cough* Then when we wipe, the priest leaves the group. I told them to PLEASE give me a chance as the only healer and replace the priest with DPS. They did, and were shocked to see that OMG! Sorcerers CAN heal! *rolls eyes*

One common thing that I'm actually shocked about (and have mixed feelings for) is that if you DON'T inform your PuG that the green goop (LoR) under them is a HEAL, they jump/run out of it, lol! :P

My rotation only involves 2 spells: LoR on the tank any time it's off CD, then Healing Wave spam. Deluge when things get ugly.
I read elsewhere that using Rejuv is a waste of time. Is it?

I was overlooking his talent tree for FS Sorc and I'm just curious if maxing out EVERYTHING heal-related is necessary for FS Sorc. I've been reading around and I guess I was wondering if putting some of the points into JT and Varetyr would be more beneficial even as a FS Sorc? Kinda like this build:

http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0\

My current build (at level 37) is:
http://www.ro2base.c...0.1.1/0.0.0.0.0


Thoughts and opinions are muchly appreciated! <3

Edited by 1479130515162739107, 04 June 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#19 Kiyoshiro

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:49 PM

Well this topic started out strong, but the morale for the FS Sorc has plummented. Rather disheartening.

I started out with a FS Priest to immitate what I had going in RO1, but I got extremely bored with her. At least in RO1, they could "heal bomb" undead, which was better than just spamming Holy Light over and over again. (boring!)
I was about to just give up when I read that GASP! Sorcerers can become healers, too! So I re-rolled a mage, even gimped my DPS talents by saving til I changed to dump the bulk of it into healing talents! I was still able to kill things swifter as a gimped mage than I was with a gimped priest! I was also so excited because the rotation for solo'ing was much more fun and fit my playstyle (kiting FTW!).

So.... is FS Sorc now a moot point?
Did the OP (kohppa) give up and re-roll?

Sure, the AoE heals are great and I've only healed up to Abandoned Labs (which isn't that big of an accomplishment being that the dungeon is short and simple, but hey, I'm only level 37!)
I've also been in PuGs where they doubted my ability to heal and brought in a priest as well. They see "Sorcerer" and even though I type/list myself as a HEALER, they tell me to DPS. Well, thank goodness there isn't a DPS meter in this game. *cough* Then when we wipe, the priest leaves the group. I told them to PLEASE give me a chance as the only healer and replace the priest with DPS. They did, and were shocked to see that OMG! Sorcerers CAN heal! *rolls eyes*

One common thing that I'm actually shocked about (and have mixed feelings for) is that if you DON'T inform your PuG that the green goop (LoR) under them is a HEAL, they jump/run out of it, lol! :P

My rotation only involves 2 spells: LoR on the tank any time it's off CD, then Healing Wave spam. Deluge when things get ugly.
I read elsewhere that using Rejuv is a waste of time. Is it?

I was overlooking his talent tree for FS Sorc and I'm just curious if maxing out EVERYTHING heal-related is necessary for FS Sorc. I've been reading around and I guess I was wondering if putting some of the points into JT and Varetyr would be more beneficial even as a FS Sorc? Kinda like this build:

http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0\

My current build (at level 37) is:
http://www.ro2base.c...0.1.1/0.0.0.0.0


Thoughts and opinions are muchly appreciated! <3


I have also seen the potential of an FS Sorc in person. It is indeed just as amazing as a Priest. Rejuvenation isn't any better than Healing Wave as it's animation is quite long, and it has an 8 second cooldown.

Healing Wave, LoR, Seal of Earth, Earth Shield and Deluge maxed out are the only things you need as an FS Sorc. You could also max Soul Bind for reducing cooldown, but it's still debatable if it's worth it or not.

I have no idea why you have maxed Seal of Wind as an FS, actually o.o
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#20 1479130515162739107

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:00 PM

I have no idea why you have maxed Seal of Wind as an FS, actually o.o


I maxed it for solo'ing purposes. It may have been in error, but I did it back as a Magician before switching. That way I can solo DPS on the field as I level since I'm not teaming up with anyone.
I didn't find this forum back when I began playing and just google searched for FS Sorc specs and found one that had SoWind maxed with the above reason. It made sense... at the time. The haste helps with killing a bit faster. *shrug*
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#21 Kiyoshiro

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

I maxed it for solo'ing purposes. It may have been in error, but I did it back as a Magician before switching. That way I can solo DPS on the field as I level since I'm not teaming up with anyone.
I didn't find this forum back when I began playing and just google searched for FS Sorc specs and found one that had SoWind maxed with the above reason. It made sense... at the time. The haste helps with killing a bit faster. *shrug*

Alright, that's what I thought it was for xD
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#22 Faythe

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

This longish post is mainly my thoughts on leveling and post fifty experience, sorceress healing in general, contrast against priest, and the viability of full support. I hope this will bring some help to anyone that was considering to heal in general as a sorceress. And to those that gave up, I'd say come back to give it another shot if you want to walk a less traveled path but be prepared for bumps along the way.

Personal Experience -
Prior to Ragnarok Online 2 I played World of Warcraft for six/seven years. I played mainly as a shaman healer and raid lead but have experienced all roles at a high level. Ragnarok 1 intrigued me when I was watching some world championship and it looked chaotic and fun but WoW fulfilled my MMO appetite.

Originally when I made my character I intended to make it a full support, however after browsing through the skill calculators I feel majority of the points spent to boost skills outside of healing output were marginal at best and flat out not worth it. I leveled to 25 with just rank 1 cold bolt, frost diver, water seal and lightning bolt. It was pretty painful, but I was still undecided at what to pursue. At that point I decided to just make it a hybrid spec to make the leveling experience better while retaining most of the output capabilities. I regarded myself as a DPS/off-healer and for the most part enjoyed my role that I was filling. Burst DPS that could keep up for the most part and to pick up the slack when the priest was falling behind along with deluge for emergencies.

Post level fifty; upon hitting it and starting up hard dungeons I felt at the time my gear was lacking so I didn't try to start healing right away. I got lucky and a few pieces sorceress gear dropped quickly for me. I started healing when I had a HRD weapon and half my equipment was at HRD level, my accessories were still empty due to lack of luck on that department. I went along with friends first since public perception isn't the best on healing sorceresses. Abandoned labs and hell of deadly poison (skipped centipede) went smoothly.

What really boosted my confidence was a bugged queue into a half clear cursed ship. We four manned the rest of the instance (Monk tank, warrior DPS/off-tank, ranger DPS, myself healer). We wiped once on Lepar Costas (boss leading up to drake's area) due to myself getting 2.5k hits back to back, Ranger at this point said we needed a priest or that I needed to drop a deluge(I'm sure a 2 second animation cast spell would of saved me from two hits about a second or less apart from each other. /rollseyes). It was RNG I wasn't prepared for and the 2nd attempt I simply just spammed HW myself when no other healing was necessary, I did get hit once with a 2.5k attack but a HW topped me off enough to survive a second hit which never came. Drake was done as it was intended and I almost lost the monk tank on the soft enrage but a well timed deluge fixed that. After getting full RHD I just queue as healer in the dungeon finder and haven't had much of a problem. I have yet to try wolf's cave, never got queued into it. Skipped first bosses in Izlude/Sea God cause parties say it’s overtuned. I can still find time to frost diver, JT/VS to assist adds/traps.

Raid wise I have completed both GoB and PvE normal and fill in healing when a priest falls but I just fulfill the standard sorceress DPS/LoR&deluge position mostly. Public groups are still not so keen in experimenting but I do feel the standard two priest & sorceress model can be cut down to one sorceress in normal raids.


Sorceress healing and against priests - All my opinion of course.

In terms of sustained healing I think we can keep up for the most part with AoE sustained being the forte. Our casts are more time efficient than a priest's. Meaning past the animation of LoR and deluge we can do something elsewhere before dropping another LoR. In contrast with priests, they are locked into channeling Sanctuary and blanket hotting as many people as possible won't deliver as much potential healing for the time spent as a sorceress. I have witnessed a priest in raid queue up a sanctuary only to forget his/her tank. No doubt we can heal dungeons but raiding I have yet to delve in deeply nor have I found groups with most of the group willing to take chances.

During an attempt to rush pass the first level of Forest Tomb and doing Ermies Guile in sandstorm exposed one huge weakness. Mobile healing is nearly non-existent. The best we can do is just drop a LoR/deluge and hope people dance around in it but that will never work in most mobile situations. I don't have any confirmation but I do suspect Renovatio and Highness heal may be possible to cast on the run. Even if they are not and there is an animation involved it is still better as they are HoTs and not ground based healing.

Another area where we are lacking is burst healing and emergency cool downs. Ours is rolled into one package which also has a positional requirement. A priest has three or four with highness heal being debatable whether it is bursty or not and also aspersio + heal for on demand criticals. A full support priest's spells will have a higher percentage of scaling as well but I have read that sorcerers have more innate magic power/intellect on gear.

For our toolkit to be as rounded as priests the developers/Gravity would need to make adjustments to the existing spells or add additional, I don't know how much Warpportal can manipulate in terms of game code so I will list some suggestions from most to least plausible.
- Increase the flat percentages of spell scaling. This is a bandaid fix at best unless the increase rejuve several times above what it is currently.
- Make Earth Seal proc guarenteed on hit, allow LoR to proc Earth Seal.
- Making rejuvenation better, as it stands Rejuv heals for about 1.5x the amount of a HW and takes about as much time as well. This makes it redundant outside of the situations where a heal landing a quarter of a second sooner is life or death. Making it equivalent to Colusea Heal, the instant full heal from priests, would improve our emergency/burst ability. However this would possibly make a coliseum imbalance even more glaring. There could be a restriction made for non-self targets but I don't think it's an elegant solution. More or less though, rejuvenation needs to be rethought.
- Making deluge and LoR ground castable rather than player centric. This one will be debatable. On one hand it makes it easier to position optimally but on the other it makes the spells harder to use and get accustomed to.
- This one applies to both Sorc and Priest. Making resurrection cooldown shorter(20m,15m,10m), make debuffs worth dispelling and making meditation a little more clearer on what it does or just redesign to something more interesting.
- Make summon aqua do different things depending on the seal it was summoned in. For example, Wind - Frostbolts, Water - 20% raid damage reduction cooldown, Earth - Healing waves, Fire - AoE damage?
- Make a 2nd activation of Earth Seal (or another skill like replace rejuve) to mimic aspersio's skill augmenting. Then provide HW with on demand critical, rejuve being better, deluge has damage reduction added, LoR no cast time or cooldown.

All in all just some ideas to entertain. Some are probably grossly overpowered or just bad but I think some will work depending on how far the code can be manipulated. Just want to drive the discussion.


In my opinion I do not think it is worthwhile for sorceresses put all their points into full support, some level of hybridization will yield better returns on points spent. This is not to say that full support is non-viable, I do believe we can heal, raids included. We would just have a harder time compared to priests since they have more tools at their disposal to handle different situations better. We heal hard dungeons fine and we just need to prove to the skeptical player base that it is doable. Time will tell whether or not that will drift into raid territory but I am confident we can heal in normal raids as well.

TL:DR - Overall sorceress healing is viable(up to hard raiding, have yet to test), priest is optimal. I think dps/hybrid priests with one point in each heal ability would be still all around a better healer than a full support Sorc. GL HF everyone.
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#23 1479130515162739107

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:07 PM

Thanks for the input and constructive criticism, Faeythe! :thx:
I do agree that priest is the optimal for many reasons... especially since I have just recently tackled HoDP. :p_sick:
We managed to clear it, but only thanks to the group for being understanding and working with me on the fact that Sorcerers lack "mobile heals."
Up until that dungeon, it was such a breeze to heal, honestly. I am sure that is just a taste for what is to come (meaning: it's only gonna get harder with more mobile heals!) :p_swt:

I'm still stumped on what to put points into now after maxing out Seal of Earth, Healing Wave, Land of Recovery, Deluge and Earth Shield... which are the necessary healing skills, eh?

If I go down the lightning tree, would maxing out Jupter Thunder/JT Mastery be best... or just slot 1 point into them and head to Varetyr Spear? :hmm:
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#24 Faythe

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:59 PM

Rishiu,

I went all the way to Varetyr Spear. I think the two options to consider is either going down to VS or maxing JT and spending the points elsewhere. JT mastery is a nice perk but I don't consider it all that crucial. However, if you like having more instant casts then two points max into JT mastery for best returns on those points spent. You just need to weigh out what is important, more utility/output increase through meditation or damage ability. I chose VS to keep my option open as a damage dealer and it is necessary if you want to make it consistently to late Colosseum rounds.

edit: Maxing JT would provide majority of your sustained damage, VS for burst/stun.

Now then since we are in a Full Support thread, lets talk healing a bit rather than damage haha. I find that groups will go along with a Sorc healer until there is a wipe. Then the blame game goes around but more often than not it is due to player mistake rather than class limitation. Just need to point out what went wrong and move on from there. Healing on the run is a bit of a guessing game sometimes cause you need to predict where the group may move to and position yourself accordingly to make the most use of time spent. All in all, a bit of a learning curve to test where the limits of the class are and how to make the most of what we have.

Edited by 8313130505202610980, 07 June 2013 - 11:02 AM.

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#25 Lawful

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

Hmm, FS sorcs should be able to heal without any problems, i healed at 34 Payon Ruins normal mode, you can add that down the list.

A full FS would probably have zero problems there, whilst i healed it without much difficutly with Lv2 earth seal, Lv1 Healing Wave, Lv1 Deluge and Lv1 Rejuv and Lv1 LoR.

So bare minimum heal for that dung.
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