Nerf

That was my point in that post. Enough spoon-feeding for you to understand now?

There was no point in adressing to me like I am a little kid. You might change your attitude towards other people.

Sorry for hurting your feelings.

You didn't comprehend what I wrote.

I said compare the difference in HP between grand and reinforced gloves.
Then I said compare the difference in HP between grand and reinforced hat, grand and reinforced chest, and grand and reinforced shoes.
You should notice that for the last 3, the reinforced has higher HP. But for the gloves, the grand has higher HP. Leading you to the conclusion that something is out of place.

That was my point in that post. Enough spoon-feeding for you to understand now?

he often cant understand what other ppl are trying to say...

im nerfed lol

Sorry for hurting your feelings.

OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!

Why don't the GM's just create a generic model for all the characters then plug the stats in accordingly. It's nothing more than a giant math problem (I sound like a nerd >.>). Knights need con and str so str would be first stat, con would be 2nd stat so on. then you would put it into a 1st stat = so and so ap w/e and poof. perfect model characters. at least that way if one character is messed up they all are and it would still be balanced then they'd have ALL the people pissed at them instead of just the champs and they would be forced to fix it LoL

Edited by AlisiaMT, 08 November 2010 - 11:19 AM.

Why don't the GM's just create a generic model for all the characters then plug the stats in accordingly. It's nothing more than a giant math problem (I sound like a nerd >.>). Knights need con and str so str would be first stat, con would be 2nd stat so on. then you would put it into a 1st stat = so and so ap w/e and poof. perfect model characters. at least that way if one character is messed up they all are and it would still be balanced then they'd have ALL the people pissed at them instead of just the champs and they would be forced to fix it LoL

This topic is outdated actually, the champs aspeed got a temporarily fix

oh okay LoL. Even if this post is outdated, I have seen soooooo many people complaining that champs have too much stats or not enough stats or too many rights to the skill tree and too many aoes. This has been going on with most of the characters (i've even seen a mage comment and i rarely see mages in the game.) They do just need to make some sort of universal build model and make it affect all of the characters based off of their dominant stats. Look at the characters as a whole, not individuals. If something is amiss they'll be informed. I can guarantee that

Edited by AlisiaMT, 08 November 2010 - 03:13 PM.

oh okay LoL. Even if this post is outdated, I have seen soooooo many people complaining that champs have too much stats or not enough stats or too many rights to the skill tree and too many aoes. This has been going on with most of the characters (i've even seen a mage comment and i rarely see mages in the game.) They do just need to make some sort of universal build model and make it affect all of the characters based off of their dominant stats. Look at the characters as a whole, not individuals. If something is amiss they'll be informed. I can guarantee that

I get the feeling you don't understand what people are complaining about. The issue is mainly with skills, not stats. Can't do what you are suggesting with skills.

I get the feeling you don't understand what people are complaining about. The issue is mainly with skills, not stats. Can't do what you are suggesting with skills.

Oh. Most people were complaining about M.Speed so I figured it had something to do with stats. My bad!

yea champs got there aspd and btw blaze about how champs are op in PvP well u could say there the best class in the game the most op class unstoppable class but.. they "shouldnt" fix what they started because of this,dont hate =p its truly a class that has alot of advantages with other classes but to fix the whole op thing they would have to reset abunch of skills not just the passive because what are they going to replace aspd with or do u want spear champs to have no bonus to there passive?they cant put aspd because the issue that they almost have the same aspd as a raider,they cant put acc because 2h champs got that,they cant put crit because axe champs got that;which leaves only dodge,def,mvspd,m-def and more ap and peaple arent going to like the idea of defense peaple arent going to like the idea of more ap magic defense is going to be +1'd either because "omg they have more m-def then knights?"what are you going to put dodge? (hehe dodge champ )anyways it does seem unbalanced to have
1.highest hp
2.2nd highest ap
3.2nd highest def
4.highest movement speed
5.2nd (or 3rd im not sure about the passives on a artisan)fastest aspd
6.4 aoe's
7.3 stuns
8.mute
9.AoE debuffs (such as def down ap down dodge down aspd down)
10.Highest (i think or xbow has highest?) accuracy (btw they have a possible of 70% accuracy passive)
all in one class yet i dont want 20xxxx posts on champs and how they should be nerfed because once this happens they become useless look at mages all theyre good for now is some pvp and thats only if ur a "good" mage u could last.

only if ur a "good" mage u could last.

This is an issue?

Xbow doesn't have highest accuracy.

Oh. Most people were complaining about M.Speed so I figured it had something to do with stats. My bad!

Yes part of it is because they have too much mspeed. But the reason they have too much is because of passive skills, not stats. You can't actually increase mspeed with stats.

Edited by BrownBear, 09 November 2010 - 08:33 AM.

You can't actually increase mspeed with stats.

If you could I would make a mSpeed Visitor

Edited by gEddeh, 09 November 2010 - 11:54 AM.

yea champs got there aspd and btw blaze about how champs are op in PvP well u could say there the best class in the game the most op class unstoppable class but.. they "shouldnt" fix what they started because of this,dont hate =p its truly a class that has alot of advantages with other classes but to fix the whole op thing they would have to reset abunch of skills not just the passive because what are they going to replace aspd with or do u want spear champs to have no bonus to there passive?they cant put aspd because the issue that they almost have the same aspd as a raider,they cant put acc because 2h champs got that,they cant put crit because axe champs got that;which leaves only dodge,def,mvspd,m-def and more ap and peaple arent going to like the idea of defense peaple arent going to like the idea of more ap magic defense is going to be +1'd either because "omg they have more m-def then knights?"what are you going to put dodge? (hehe dodge champ )anyways it does seem unbalanced to have
1.highest hp
2.2nd highest ap
3.2nd highest def
4.highest movement speed
5.2nd (or 3rd im not sure about the passives on a artisan)fastest aspd
6.4 aoe's
7.3 stuns
8.mute
9.AoE debuffs (such as def down ap down dodge down aspd down)
10.Highest (i think or xbow has highest?) accuracy (btw they have a possible of 70% accuracy passive)
all in one class yet i dont want 20xxxx posts on champs and how they should be nerfed because once this happens they become useless look at mages all theyre good for now is some pvp and thats only if ur a "good" mage u could last.

they got CHAMPION for a name.. that's the simplest reason for their prowess.. but yea, #4 doesn't suit them, it makes them like a Tank that has a speed of a F1 race car IF they really do got highest mspd from just having their mspd passives alone and still higher than other class w/ mspd passives and buffs..

Edited by Xros, 09 November 2010 - 03:53 PM.

id like to point out people saying mages can take them down easy because they have low mdef. but their mdef isnt really low compared to any class, just low comparing with their own def.
if soldiers can have so high def, muse class should have really high mdef compatible with them. or give them mdef buffs / passives w/e

Can we give champs more power please? It will help me kill people

The only low stats champs have are magic defense and dodge (and range if you include that). (Yes Berry they have lower magic defense than any other class)


Other classes stats are generally more balanced than champs:

Champ
HP: High
Attack Power: Very High
Defense: Very High
Magic Defense: very low
Accuracy: Generally below average/average with spears, and very high with swords
Critical: potentially high with the axe passives
Dodge: Low
Mspeed: Very High
Aspeed: High with spears, below average with axes swords are somewhere in between
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills

Scout:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Below Average
Magic Defense: Above Average
Accuracy: High
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: High
Mspeed: High
Aspeed: Average
Range: High

Raider (Katar):
HP: Average
Attack Power: Katar = very low
Defense: below average
Magic Defense: above average
Accuracy: generally lower than most classes
Critical: potentially high because of the crit buff but it depends on your build
Dodge: High
Mspeed: High
Aspeed: Very High
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills


Raider (Dual):

Attack Power: Average
Defense: Potentially above average with evasive guard, below average without
Magic Defense: Above Average
Accuracy: Generally lower than most classes but potentially slightly higher than katars
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: High, potentially very high with evasive guard
Mspeed: High
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills

Mage:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Very high
Defense: very low
Magic Defense: relatively high
Accuracy: low
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build,
Dodge: generally very low
Mspeed: low
Aspeed: Low
Range: Many mid ranged and semi long ranged skills

Cleric (battle)
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Potentially above average/high
Magic Defense: Very high
Accuracy: Average
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: Generally average
Mspeed: low
Range: Semi high

Cleric (support):
HP: Average

Attack Power: irrelevant
Defense: potentially high
Magic Defense: potentially very high
Accuracy: irellevant
Critical: irrelevant
Dodge: Potentially high
Mspeed: low but potentailly decently high as they can pump mspeed without worrying about offensive stats since they don't need it
Aspeed: Average
Range: irrelevant



Bourgious (Launcher)

Attack Power: Fairly high
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: below average
Accuracy: high
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: generally low
Mspeed: Average (they have some mspeed passives)
Aspeed: Generally average, (fairly high passives but low base weapon)
Range: Very high

Bourgious (Gun):
HP: Average
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: Below average
Accuracy: very high
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: generally higher than launcher bourgs as they usually use dex,
Mspeed: Average
Aspeed: High
Range: High

Artisan:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Slightly above aveage
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: Below Average
Accuracy: Very high
Critical: higher than most classes
Dodge: Same as gun bourgs
Mspeed: above average (more mspeed passives than bourgs)
Aspeed: Very high (higher than gun bourgs)
Range: High


Knight (Mace)
HP: High
Attack Power: Below Average
Defense: Extremeley High
Magic Defense: Average/slightly above average (not sure how they compare with hawkers)
Accuracy: Generally above average
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: low
Mspeed: Potentially high
Aspeed: generally low/below average
Range: low with some mid range skills


Knight (Crossbow)
HP: High
Attack Power: low
Defense: Extremeley High
Magic Defense: Average/slightly above average (not sure how they compare with hawkers)
Accuracy: Generally high (Crossbow knights require much less skill points for their skills so they generally have higher accuracy and mspeed than their mace counterparts due to taking passives from the 2 handed tree)
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: low
Mspeed: Generally high (Crossbow knights require much less skill points for their skills so they generally have higher accuracy and mspeed than their mace counterparts due to taking passives from the 2 handed tree)
Aspeed: generally /below average but potentially high with the six stick bowgun
Range: High with some close ranged skills


This is just looking at stats (which champs have overall high stats as a whole compared to other classes) (Although crossbow knights are also close)), skills are another story, but champs are definately not underpowered in that department either.


I've said it before and I think the defense passive in the champ tree should be removed (and knocking some mspeed off of Quick step wouldn't hurt either)

Edited by Phish, 14 November 2010 - 05:53 PM.

The only low stats champs have are magic defense and dodge (and range if you include that). (Yes Berry they have lower magic defense than any other class)


Other classes stats are generally more balanced than champs:

Champ
HP: High
Attack Power: Very High
Defense: Very High
Magic Defense: very low
Accuracy: Generally below average/average with spears, and very high with swords
Critical: potentially high with the axe passives
Dodge: Low
Mspeed: Very High
Aspeed: High with spears, below average with axes swords are somewhere in between
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills

Scout:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Below Average
Magic Defense: Above Average
Accuracy: High
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: High
Mspeed: High
Aspeed: Average
Range: High

Raider (Katar):
HP: Average
Attack Power: Katar = very low
Defense: below average
Magic Defense: above average
Accuracy: generally lower than most classes
Critical: potentially high because of the crit buff but it depends on your build
Dodge: High
Mspeed: High
Aspeed: Very High
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills


Raider (Dual):

Attack Power: Average
Defense: Potentially above average with evasive guard, below average without
Magic Defense: Above Average
Accuracy: Generally lower than most classes but potentially slightly higher than katars
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: High, potentially very high with evasive guard
Mspeed: High
Range: Close range with some mid ranged skills

Mage:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Very high
Defense: very low
Magic Defense: relatively high
Accuracy: low
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build,
Dodge: generally very low
Mspeed: low
Aspeed: Low
Range: Many mid ranged and semi long ranged skills

Cleric (battle)
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Potentially above average/high
Magic Defense: Very high
Accuracy: Average
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: Generally average
Mspeed: low
Range: Semi high

Cleric (support):
HP: Average

Attack Power: irrelevant
Defense: potentially high
Magic Defense: potentially very high
Accuracy: irellevant
Critical: irrelevant
Dodge: Potentially high
Mspeed: low but potentailly decently high as they can pump mspeed without worrying about offensive stats since they don't need it
Aspeed: Average
Range: irrelevant



Bourgious (Launcher)

Attack Power: Fairly high
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: below average
Accuracy: high
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: generally low
Mspeed: Average (they have some mspeed passives)
Aspeed: Generally average, (fairly high passives but low base weapon)
Range: Very high

Bourgious (Gun):
HP: Average
Attack Power: Average
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: Below average
Accuracy: very high
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: generally higher than launcher bourgs as they usually use dex,
Mspeed: Average
Aspeed: High
Range: High

Artisan:
HP: Average
Attack Power: Slightly above aveage
Defense: Average
Magic Defense: Below Average
Accuracy: Very high
Critical: higher than most classes
Dodge: Same as gun bourgs
Mspeed: above average (more mspeed passives than bourgs)
Aspeed: Very high (higher than gun bourgs)
Range: High


[B]Knight (Mace)
HP: High
Attack Power: Below Average
Defense: Extremeley High
Magic Defense: Average/slightly above average (not sure how they compare with hawkers)
Accuracy: Generally above average
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: low
Mspeed: Potentially high
Aspeed: generally low/below average
Range: low with some mid range skills


[b]Knight (Crossbow)
HP: High
Attack Power: low
Defense: Extremeley High
Magic Defense: Average/slightly above average (not sure how they compare with hawkers)
Accuracy: Generally high (Crossbow knights require much less skill points for their skills so they generally have higher accuracy and mspeed than their mace counterparts due to taking passives from the 2 handed tree)
Critical: Arbitriary; depends on your build
Dodge: low
Mspeed: Generally high (Crossbow knights require much less skill points for their skills so they generally have higher accuracy and mspeed than their mace counterparts due to taking passives from the 2 handed tree)
Aspeed: generally /below average but potentially high with the six stick bowgun
Range: High with some close ranged skills


This is just looking at stats (which champs have overall high stats as a whole compared to other classes) (Although crossbow knights are also close)), skills are another story, but champs are definately not underpowered in that department either.


I've said it before and I think the defense passive in the champ tree should be removed (and knocking some mspeed off of Quick step wouldn't hurt either)

that should be sticky made from a pro

If they nerf champs you guys are gonna find a new class to complain about being overpowered. Every other thread it about champs being overpowered. It's getting very annoying. Just live with it or find a new game to play. Whether they fix it or not 3813249829721318 different threads about it will not make a difference. Stick to one thread and make a billion page discussion(rant) about everything you hate about this game and hope to God the devs will read it and actually care which, of course, will never happen.

If they nerf champs you guys are gonna find a new class to complain about being overpowered. Every other thread it about champs being overpowered. It's getting very annoying. Just live with it or find a new game to play. Whether they fix it or not 3813249829721318 different threads about it will not make a difference. Stick to one thread and make a billion page discussion(rant) about everything you hate about this game and hope to God the devs will read it and actually care which, of course, will never happen.

If champs become balanced and someone else is imbalanced, we will complain about them. Putting up with the imbalance doesn't actually improve the game.

Complaining about complainers is the most useless thing to do. Live with it or find a new game to play (or a new forum to troll).

If champs become balanced and someone else is imbalanced, we will complain about them. Putting up with the imbalance doesn't actually improve the game.

Complaining about complainers is the most useless thing to do. Live with it or find a new game to play (or a new forum to troll).

You seem to misunderstand. There are way too many threads than necessary about champs being overpowered. All I ever see on this forum is "nerf champ" "omg champz r overpowerdsz" it is really getting on my nerves. Yes I agree they may be a bit strong but you don't see me posting in every section about it do you? People get pissed cause champs always kill them so they come and rant on the forums. There are obviously more important things the developers could be doing right now, like, eating food, watching porn etc. We know they don't get done around here but all this belaboring on the topic of champs is a little excessive and you people need to learn that it will not change anything by making 50 of the same topic. You all think you have something different to say but it has all been said in other topics. If you want to reiterate what someone has already said do it in a topic that has already been made.

On the topic of trolling... Find me another forum like this that is as easy to troll and I will gladly do that. Thank you.

You seem to misunderstand. There are way too many threads than necessary about champs being overpowered. All I ever see on this forum is "nerf champ" "omg champz r overpowerdsz" it is really getting on my nerves. Yes I agree they may be a bit strong but you don't see me posting in every section about it do you? People get pissed cause champs always kill them so they come and rant on the forums. There are obviously more important things the developers could be doing right now, like, eating food, watching porn etc. We know they don't get done around here but all this belaboring on the topic of champs is a little excessive and you people need to learn that it will not change anything by making 50 of the same topic. You all think you have something different to say but it has all been said in other topics. If you want to reiterate what someone has already said do it in a topic that has already been made.

On the topic of trolling... Find me another forum like this that is as easy to troll and I will gladly do that. Thank you.

I don't see it being posted everywhere. Maybe once upon a time it was, but now it is just the other thread in the proposal section. Sure one guy might bring it up in a post, but if you can't deal with that then you should move on and not be telling other people to. this thread would be dead if it wasn't for vicekings random bump.

My point is, say something constructive or move on. Complaining about people complaining is just as retarded as making multiple threads about the same thing.

Edited by BrownBear, 15 November 2010 - 01:39 PM.

true true i vote to kill this thread what i asked for has been done thanks for the support tho

I don't see it being posted everywhere. Maybe once upon a time it was, but now it is just the other thread in the proposal section. Sure one guy might bring it up in a post, but if you can't deal with that then you should move on and not be telling other people to. this thread would be dead if it wasn't for vicekings random bump.

My point is, say something constructive or move on. Complaining about people complaining is just as retarded as making multiple threads about the same thing.

You are obviously being hypocritical when you say that as all I see is you complaining about what I say, which in your eyes is complaining.

Now please tell me what is not constructive in my posts. I am simply informing people that all these topics are pretty absurd. Sure I might be doing it in a crude and maybe unprofessional way but that, in no way, makes it unconstructive.

As much as I love this back and forth bantering it really isn't the most interesting topic to do it over. If you find a more interesting topic I will argue with you more if you wish.

People get pissed cause champs always kill them so they come and rant on the forums. There are obviously more important things the developers could be doing right now, like, eating food, watching porn etc.this isnt constructive drop the thread there isnt more to talk about they fixed the aspd