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A Swordsman Endgame Stat Comparison (updated with other tank classes)


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#1 Timmmt

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:17 PM

I did a quick excel spreadsheet comparison of a Knight and Defender Warrior equipped with endgame tank gear. This includes:

-Full Hard Abaddon of Despair dodge/parry weapon and armors all +10 refined
-Ungoliant Card set + 2x Ungoliant of Despair Card [Rare+]
-SEA RO2 Union Moneybag Helmet (+200 dodge) + Studded Headband (+300 crit) [Note: you can only wear one at a time, but they are both included for comparison purposes]
-Buffs: Battle Order for both, Defender for Warrior
-Legendary Card Master title

I left runes out of the equation because there is much debate about which runes you should use, especially if you use Battle Tactics. For the stat build, I just used my own.

Check out the spreadsheet here (v2): https://docs.google....S1E&usp=sharing

Summary of data:
Warrior:
Attack: 2970
Defense Rate: 42.01%
Dodge Rate: 38.48%
Parry Rate: 75.31% (75.00% cap)

Knight:
Attack: 3057
Defense Rate: 47.68%
Dodge Rate: 30.06%
Parry Rate: 59.09%

Difference:
Attack: 87 (in favor of knight)
Defense Rate: 5.67% (in favor of knight)
Dodge Rate: 8.42% (in favor of warrior)
Parry Rate: 15.91% (in favor of warrior)

Even though this is mostly a defensive stat comparison, I left Attack in there because I know you guys love to compare muscles.

Let me know if you see any errors in my formulas. They should be accurate. You should also be able to input your own gear into the spreadsheet to do your own kind of comparisons.

(I used equipment information from www.asgardianslibrary.com, and card information from www.ro2base.com)

Revision history:
v2:
-Corrected Knight shield refinement values
-Added Khara Titles
-Added Monk and Beastmaster comparison charts
v1
-Initial release (Knight and Warrior comparison charts)

Edited by Timmmt, 07 June 2013 - 08:30 PM.

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#2 Varunax

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:32 PM

Seems about right. I don't know if you calculated Concentration in there or not, but if you didn't... the Knight has a lot more attack power than I thought.

What about HP?
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#3 AlexaWhite

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:49 PM

Awww~
Great! With 50% and more defence Concentration can be maintained all time without being hurt for knight.
Anyway - all stats as expected. High dodge and capped parry for warriors, Higher def and atk for knights.
But there is something wrong - Warrior does not need exceed 70% parry cap, Then he can trew few more stats for better dodge,
But thanks for work you done ^^ Can you do this for each tier epics from Baph-normal to Colloseum?

@Varunax - your gif avatar awesome! I thought this rogue, but mistaken.
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Edited by AlexaWhite, 05 June 2013 - 09:50 PM.

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#4 Varunax

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:50 PM

Thanks but I don't want this thread to be about me...
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#5 SonicTMP

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:55 PM

AP is alot closer than I thought it would be assuming defender pentalty is being counted. Though ya...If both are DPS then the Knight would end up with more AP constantly except when the war pops Berserk.

It's amazing how much scaling changes things in the later raid. Even with 8% more defence the warrior will come out ahead I think.

Dude if you have the time and feel so inclined, try to find the gears and put up Bear and Monk tank tables. It be awesome to figure out how the tanks all stack up when gear maxed.

Edited by SonicTMP, 05 June 2013 - 09:59 PM.

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#6 Chocs

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

If weapons for both Knight and Swordsman were over upgraded at the same level, it's very likely the Warrior will regain the higher AP due to scaling. Greatswords have a substantially higher base attack than the Knight's swords.

Question - would upgrading a shield increase Defence or AP? Can you even upgrade a shield? (Can't be tempted to try out myself at the moment. Assignment, assignment, exams...)
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#7 Varunax

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:14 PM

Shields give defense so upgrades increase defense.
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#8 kingarthur6687

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:24 AM

The implication I'm getting from this is that Knights are more consistent in both tanking and DPS while Warriors rely on luck of the draw and may either win magnificently or fail spectacularly.

As much as I hate Knight's skillset, starting to wonder if I should maybe switch to a Knight from my Warrior if I want to be effective down the road. It's already a known fact that Knights are superior in PVP over Warriors, for one.

Edited by kingarthur6687, 06 June 2013 - 12:26 AM.

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#9 Chocs

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:39 AM

Shields give defense so upgrades increase defense.

Ahh that's very true :wah:

Well as it turns out, even if the weapons are upgraded to +10, Knights still have a very slight edge over Defender Warriors. AoD H weapon for Warrior and Knight have 914 and 727 AP respectively. That's an additional 274 and 218 AP at +10 (30% higher). Warriors with Defender will have an additional 246 AP instead of 274.

War: 2902 + 246 = 3148 AP (Defender)
Kni: 2982 + 218 = 3200 AP

Just for fun, I did a short calc on both AP when using full DPS buffs (AB + Berserk/Concentration, no Defender). Even with Berserk only effective half the time, it seems both values become pretty equal in the long run. I guess Warriors are the burst to the Knight's sustainability.

It's already a known fact that Knights are superior in PVP over Warriors, for one.

It might not be the best indicator, but the Colosseum event winner list seems to think otherwise. 10/15 for Warriors and 4/15 for Knights as of this post---

http://forums.warppo...urvive-winners/

Edited by Chocs, 06 June 2013 - 12:45 AM.

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#10 SonicTMP

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:58 AM

Colo is about who's lucky and gets more KS. Not to mention Rage stike can hit really hard for a good KS while knights lack that really big hit and SC's animation hurts more than it helps. Really it's colo, get the gear for WoE down the road. You'll likely replace at least 5 peices soon as CoA hits since the set bonus is awesome.

Though even in tanking the warriors are burst when you look at it. Aura Shield is going to be usable twice as often vs Endure that has double the effect. Methinks the devs did a better job balancing the classes than we give them credit for. It just takes a few raid tiers to get equaled.
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#11 Timmmt

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

Ahh that's very true :wah:

Well as it turns out, even if the weapons are upgraded to +10, Knights still have a very slight edge over Defender Warriors. AoD H weapon for Warrior and Knight have 914 and 727 AP respectively. That's an additional 274 and 218 AP at +10 (30% higher). Warriors with Defender will have an additional 246 AP instead of 274.

War: 2902 + 246 = 3148 AP (Defender)
Kni: 2982 + 218 = 3200 AP

Just for fun, I did a short calc on both AP when using full DPS buffs (AB + Berserk/Concentration, no Defender). Even with Berserk only effective half the time, it seems both values become pretty equal in the long run. I guess Warriors are the burst to the Knight's sustainability.


It might not be the best indicator, but the Colosseum event winner list seems to think otherwise. 10/15 for Warriors and 4/15 for Knights as of this post---

http://forums.warppo...urvive-winners/


My calculations already include fully refined weapon (and armor). The only thing I want sure about was how much defense refinement gives a shield. I calculated it as +30%, but if it's only +10% like armors, then the difference in defense rate is smaller.

Edited by Timmmt, 06 June 2013 - 06:02 AM.

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#12 Shouichirou

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:14 AM

My calculations already include fully refined weapon (and armor). The only thing I want sure about was how much defense refinement gives a shield. I calculated it as +30%, but if it's only +10% like armors, then the difference in defense rate is smaller.


Shield refinement is up to 10% (at +10). Had to some some shield upgrades myself (only went to 5 to see the values) to re-discover that, lol.
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#13 Timmmt

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

Shield refinement is up to 10% (at +10). Had to some some shield upgrades myself (only went to 5 to see the values) to re-discover that, lol.


If that's true then knights have 47.68% defense rating vs defender warriors 42.01%, a 5.67% difference.

Can anyone else confirm that shields are +10% only?

Edited by Timmmt, 06 June 2013 - 11:50 AM.

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#14 AlexaWhite

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:52 AM

I can confirm. Shields use oridecon and give only 1% per enchant level
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#15 Timmmt

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

I can confirm. Shields use oridecon and give only 1% per enchant level


Thanks for the information you two, I updated the spreadsheet.

That's pretty crappy, btw. An extra equip that requires more karnium + oridecon pieces, expensive...
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#16 sephiroso

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

Thanks for the information you two, I updated the spreadsheet.

That's pretty crappy, btw. An extra equip that requires more karnium + oridecon pieces, expensive...

dont even see why people even bother enchanting anything but weapon.
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#17 SonicTMP

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

It's called min/maxing.
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#18 sephiroso

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

It's called min/maxing.

min/maxing in WoW i can understand, min/maxing in this game? a bit of a joke. but i guess you're still right though.
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#19 SonicTMP

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:58 PM

I wouldn't bother with it either but if you want the asbolute max values some will waste the cash to do so.
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#20 malasuerte

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

https://docs.google....VpbC1SMHc#gid=0

I hope you don't mind, I was curious to see how the other tanks looked compared to the swordsmen. Your sheet wasn't editable so I made a new one.

I added a few variables (titles, some buffs, HP), but otherwise all the parameters are the same as in Timmmt's spreadsheet(+10 AoDH gear, cards, etc.). I think all my formulas are correct, but if you find an error the spreadsheet is editable. The only one I'm not sure on is HP, it's just an estimation based on vit and hp mods. I know you gain HP per level, but I don't know how much or if all classes gain the same amount.

Basically what I found is that each of the tanks excels in a different stat. Warriors have the highest parry rate, knights have the most attack (that was unexpected), monks have the strongest defense (just barely), and beastmasters have the highest hp. Warriors have the most natural dodge, but a monk using Flee 5 will have the most by a fairly big amount.

If you're going to play with your own numbers, don't touch the highlighted bits.
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#21 Varunax

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:29 PM

Making me wonder if I should reinvest back into Aura Blade as it seems to scale better late game.
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#22 sephiroso

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:52 PM

Making me wonder if I should reinvest back into Aura Blade as it seems to scale better late game.

as a tank knight? or do you mean warrior
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#23 Jonss

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:56 PM

the hell 73% parry? always on or are you counting with buffs?
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#24 sephiroso

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

he's counting AoD gear, which is 2 raid tiers ahead of what we can get.
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#25 Chocs

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

the hell 73% parry? always on or are you counting with buffs?

Pretty sure that's with Defender activated. So in a way, yes it can be always on.

Edited by Chocs, 06 June 2013 - 09:02 PM.

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