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#1 Lyrinn

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:20 PM

DPS/tank never peels adds off, always kills Evil Fire Phantom's horongs.

 

Party member accidentally uses guardian, dies 5 seconds after it runs out.

 

Save tank trying to hold 10+ mobs with Assumptio, does it again immediately after.

 

Party wipes, expects you to leaf everyone.

 

Post in LFP, get invites to all the wrong dungeons.

 

My personal favourite: Need mace from Bapho, never drops.

 

 

 

I don't know, just bored and felt like sharing. *This isn't a QQ thread.


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#2 HoukaSeyru

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:26 PM

I dont know if you do RHD or with your mates so

RHD

 

You can't expect  "Pro" People in RHD it has always someone that doesnt know how to do it.

 

And for Adds ~ i always remember my Group to kill adds and they do it ! if not dont heal :p_hi:

 

With your mates

 

They should know so its not a problem ~

 

 

i know that with the invites & wrong dungeons :p_swt:

 

 

 


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#3 synesthetic

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

DPS/tank never peels adds off, always kills Evil Fire Phantom's horongs.

 

Save tank trying to hold 10+ mobs with Assumptio, does it again immediately after.

haha, I love these.  Here are my own, on top of those:

 

 - Mash Coluceo, person dies anyway.  Coluceo is now on cooldown without showing it.

 

 - Raiding with another priest who has much smaller gear, and said priest constantly overwrites your 500-600 Reno with a 300 one.


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#4 HoukaSeyru

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:05 PM

haha, I love these.  Here are my own, on top of those:

 

 - Mash Coluceo, person dies anyway.  Coluceo is now on cooldown without showing it.

 

 - Raiding with another priest who has much smaller gear, and said priest constantly overwrites your 500-600 Reno with a 300 one.

 

lol happend both happend to me today.

 

Btw..really dont understand why RHD has sometimes 2 Priests... :hmm:


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#5 prismflower

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

My pet peeve when dungeoning:

 

- Tank doesn't generate enough threat, I die more than anyone else as a result

 

- KILL THE ADDS.


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#6 Atweig

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:15 AM

"HEAL", the wizard spams in chat while you're desperately trying to keep the tank alive. Just use potion already! ><'


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#7 Rukaroa

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:17 AM

"HEAL", the wizard spams in chat while you're desperately trying to keep the tank alive. Just use potion already! ><'

 

This.

 

And as previously stated before, DPS/off-tank not taking adds off the support team. People die when support is killed.


Edited by Rukaroa, 01 August 2013 - 01:41 AM.

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#8 Teffa

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:10 AM

People blaming YOU for their mistakes.

If you don't kill ads or pull, I will leave your bloody body behind.


Edited by Teffa, 01 August 2013 - 04:11 AM.

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#9 Lyrinn

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:31 AM

Use Sanctuary, party stands right outside of it.


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#10 Qtpiegumdrops

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:08 AM

DPS/tank never peels adds off, always kills Evil Fire Phantom's horongs.

 

To me this depends on whether you are in a raid, or a OBB rush. In a raid yeah adds should always die fast, and people never really seem to want to kill them in a raid. They are usually too busy trying to get the highest threat on the boss to boost their ego.

 

In a OBB rush however? I feel like it just slows you down if you kill the adds on a boss like Ungoliant or Leviathan. My belief in an OBB rush is that everyone should be geared enough to offtank a few mobs to speed things up (The priest included.) The fastest OBB rushes I do are when people focus the boss and don't worry about adds, IE: I've had my group kill Leviathan before without him using that large blue AoE since we focused on him and didn't bother with adds.

 

Anyways that's just my opinion on the matter.
 


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#11 Lyrinn

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:26 AM

To me this depends on whether you are in a raid, or a OBB rush. In a raid yeah adds should always die fast, and people never really seem to want to kill them in a raid. They are usually too busy trying to get the highest threat on the boss to boost their ego.

 

In a OBB rush however? I feel like it just slows you down if you kill the adds on a boss like Ungoliant or Leviathan. My belief in an OBB rush is that everyone should be geared enough to offtank a few mobs to speed things up (The priest included.) The fastest OBB rushes I do are when people focus the boss and don't worry about adds, IE: I've had my group kill Leviathan before without him using that large blue AoE since we focused on him and didn't bother with adds.

 

Anyways that's just my opinion on the matter.
 

 

You're taking this way too seriously.


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#12 Qtpiegumdrops

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:28 AM

You're taking this way too seriously.

 

It's because I'm trying to justify myself as one of those tanks that don't deal with adds in OBB rushes. :P


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#13 prismflower

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

Use Sanctuary, party stands right outside of it.

 

 

This, so much. I can't count the number of times I had to yell in the chat for everyone to stand close before actually casting it. 


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#14 Lyrinn

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:35 AM

It's because I'm trying to justify myself as one of those tanks that don't deal with adds in OBB rushes. :P

 

You could at least smack the mobs once so they don't immediately rush at the healer after casting one reno.


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#15 Lyrinn

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:03 AM

Healing isn't fun when people aren't dying. 


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#16 Leinzan

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:22 AM

 

Healing isn't fun when people aren't dying.

you want us to live or do die >=D?!!


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#17 TatsuyaKeith

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:25 AM

Healing isn't fun when people aren't dying. 

 

For a moment, I read that as: "People die when they're killed" on my mind.... Damn you, MirrorMoon!!


Edited by TatsuyaKeith, 07 August 2013 - 08:25 AM.

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#18 sinkie52hell

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:27 PM

During raid, ranger DPS doesn't help kill adds, says its not his job, off-tank dies, blames healer for being weak.


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#19 Gluttannie

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:09 AM

- Squishy DPS classes not avoiding boss AoEs and blaming the healer after for not out healing the 3k per tick damage.
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#20 AlmondKiss

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:49 PM

How about this bunch of fail?

 

1. no one in party has the right gear

 

2. first time doing dungeon

 

3. everyone speaks a different language and can barely understand each other

 

4. squishy tank can't hold aggro, squishy dps commence running willy nilly

 

5. no one has leaves

 

6. boss decides to constantly switch aggro

 

=> Everyone remains optimistic about getting through the dungeon despite all these factors/ blames you for not being able to heal squishy people running around.


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#21 Atweig

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:46 AM


5. no one has leaves

 

6. boss decides to constantly switch aggro

 

8. Tank forgets to bring Master Red potions.


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#22 7473130511053806230

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:48 AM

Shoot em all and let god sort them out. To hell with healing. Everyone switch to battle priest.


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#23 Feliface

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

Waiting for level 1 res CD T.T
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#24 Greven79

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:09 PM

How about this bunch of fail?

 

1. no one in party has the right gear

 

2. first time doing dungeon

 

3. everyone speaks a different language and can barely understand each other

 

4. squishy tank can't hold aggro, squishy dps commence running willy nilly

 

5. no one has leaves

 

6. boss decides to constantly switch aggro

 

8. Tank forgets to bring Master Red potions.

 

=> Everyone remains optimistic about getting through the dungeon despite all these factors/ blames you for not being able to heal squishy people running around.

 

Both replies are quite arrogant.

 

1.) There is no such thing like the "wrong gear". It's either personal preference or play-style.

 

Imagine the following 4 changes:

  • The level cap is increased to lvl 60 (hard mode raids require lvl 60)
  • Colo gear is only usable in Colo, the required lvl is 60 or the"outside stats" are equivalent to union gear.
  • Create a level requirement for Pandora Gear
  • Refining your gear (+1 => +2 f.e.) increases level requirement
     

I think with these changes, there won't be a discussion about "wrong gear". Just because there is a way of "cheating in" unbalanced gear makes it a habbit for people who obtain this sort of gear to blame everyone else for not having it....

 

2.) There is a "First time" doing a specific dungeon for everyone.

 

That's not a bad thing. Personally, I liked these moments the most, when noone in the group had done the dungeon before. On contrast, I always disliked the groups where an overpowered char rushed through.

 

I am glad that I had this moment several times: Wolves Cave, Temple of Sea God, Secret Forest Tomb, Cursed Ghost Ship and Sandstorm Fortress.

 

The experience to see Drake for the first time was much more special. If I were told that there is a "cheat" to reset him... or that everyone can jump into the wall to reset Moonie would have ruined this experience.

As another enlightening example: Sandstorm Fortress:

Noone knew that some enemies in this dungeon would respawn. So after the first 'usual' and of course 'unintended' target-misclick by the ranger, it never happened again. We've sent the rogue in to scout the area, we discussed more about how to fight an enemy. It was also frustrating to get defeated several times by Eremis, but it was also great when we finally won.

 

If someone had told me before that the tornado can only move across 1/2 room in any direction and therefore it's wise to fight by the throne first, I would have benn disappointed.

 

3.) Speaking the same language helps, but this isn't essential

 

If everyone knows his/her role in the team, there are no complications. It's only gets frustrating, if you want to "cheat" or you are too focussed too much on a certain strategy and you feel that you have to explain it. Wanna explain how to lure cheat vs Humbaba to an Brasilian... that's hard.

 

4.) Tanks aren't interested in the threat meter

 

This sounds odd at the first moment, but it's pretty simple. All the tank CAN do is to attack at his/her full potential... and he will do this. Sometimes he might get stunned, silenced, transformed, etc., but the rest of the time he will "tank & spank".

 

If some DPS outruns the tank in threat, it's the fault of that DPS player... it's really that simple.

 

Assume that the tank simply CAN'T do more damage AND he already gets a x400% bonus, the DPS most likely has overpowered gear AND/OR he ignored all adds (minor monsters spawned by the boss).

 

So the only right way to avoid this problem is for the DPS guy to slow down the attacks or to simply stop them. Basically, there is no other choice. And it's not a bad idea in general. I'll explain this later.

 

However, it's also a fundamental fault of RO2. Other games did it better: In Dragon Age 2 for example, the DPS classes have skills that reduce threat... In this way, it's a switch of responsibility from the tank class towards the DPS class.

 

5.) Leaves are a bad design and therefore should have been omitted from the game

 

Why? Basically it's not that important WHY a character dies, but what does that mean for other party members:The only benefit of the leaf is that you respawn on site not outside the dungeon... and therefore all the leaf does is to reduces the time all other players have to wait.

 

The final question is, whether waiting for 30-60sec is worth 5 Zeny or not AND whether those who didn't die should invest in this. So RO2 should omit these leaves and invent some minor Spinel Potions f.e. where you can resurrect yourself either when either not in combat or with 1 HP / 0 SP (if the first option isn't possible).

 

8.) If the main tank has to use pots, something is going extremely wrong

 

This might sound odd, but its my main argument against DPS in general. Nearly all bosses in the game create a special attack based on HP-loss or based on remaining HP. Eremes f.e. ALWAYS creates 2 tornados... there is no way that he creates just 1 (if you kill him fast) nor does he ever create 3+. The real issue is whether or not a healer could outheal the "usual" damage of a boss... and usually, the answer is "yes".

 

But what's about the "special attacks"?

 

They never occur in succession, so there is enough time in between for anyone to heal themself. If you don't liike this, a simple deluge is also enough. That's why you can kill Bapho even if all but healer and main-tank are dead.

 

My statements are a bit different:

 

A.) If the Sorcerer uses Land of Recovery on himself

 

As stated above, it's all about keeping the main tank alive. And any additional heal effect is welcome. If LoR is casted on the Sorc, it's useless in 90% of the time. And in case an AoE hits the rest of the group, Deluge and Sanctuary is enough.

 

B.) The damn 2sec for Sanctuary to create an effect

 

I still don't know why the game developer did this. It would have been simple to say: Sanctuary heals 80% now and every 2sec thereafter... this delay can become critical in rare cases.

 

C.) Sanctuary stopped because I moved 1cm

 

Why did they do this? They could have reduced my movement speed by 80-100% and stop the effect when I use a skill (similar to Hide).

 

D.) I select a raid member on the raid screen but in reality, I select another character

 

Ragnarok 2 is THE ONLY EVER EXISTING game (I know) that doesn't implement a mouse-event-propagation rule. It's a software engineer view of it... so in other words: You can click only on things in the foreground.

 

E.) Recovery isn't working

 

Why do they create skills if they aren't working or do not add any value to the game? Simply skip it and implement it later... It would be so cool if Recovery could end Stainer from poisoning you... but hey... nevermind.


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#25 raela

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:47 AM

Both replies are quite arrogant.

 

1.) There is no such thing like the "wrong gear". It's either personal preference or play-style.

 

Imagine the following 4 changes:

  • The level cap is increased to lvl 60 (hard mode raids require lvl 60)
  • Colo gear is only usable in Colo, the required lvl is 60 or the"outside stats" are equivalent to union gear.
  • Create a level requirement for Pandora Gear
  • Refining your gear (+1 => +2 f.e.) increases level requirement
     

I think with these changes, there won't be a discussion about "wrong gear". Just because there is a way of "cheating in" unbalanced gear makes it a habbit for people who obtain this sort of gear to blame everyone else for not having it....

 

2.) There is a "First time" doing a specific dungeon for everyone.

 

That's not a bad thing. Personally, I liked these moments the most, when noone in the group had done the dungeon before. On contrast, I always disliked the groups where an overpowered char rushed through.

 

I am glad that I had this moment several times: Wolves Cave, Temple of Sea God, Secret Forest Tomb, Cursed Ghost Ship and Sandstorm Fortress.

 

The experience to see Drake for the first time was much more special. If I were told that there is a "cheat" to reset him... or that everyone can jump into the wall to reset Moonie would have ruined this experience.

As another enlightening example: Sandstorm Fortress:

Noone knew that some enemies in this dungeon would respawn. So after the first 'usual' and of course 'unintended' target-misclick by the ranger, it never happened again. We've sent the rogue in to scout the area, we discussed more about how to fight an enemy. It was also frustrating to get defeated several times by Eremis, but it was also great when we finally won.

 

If someone had told me before that the tornado can only move across 1/2 room in any direction and therefore it's wise to fight by the throne first, I would have benn disappointed.

 

3.) Speaking the same language helps, but this isn't essential

 

If everyone knows his/her role in the team, there are no complications. It's only gets frustrating, if you want to "cheat" or you are too focussed too much on a certain strategy and you feel that you have to explain it. Wanna explain how to lure cheat vs Humbaba to an Brasilian... that's hard.

 

4.) Tanks aren't interested in the threat meter

 

This sounds odd at the first moment, but it's pretty simple. All the tank CAN do is to attack at his/her full potential... and he will do this. Sometimes he might get stunned, silenced, transformed, etc., but the rest of the time he will "tank & spank".

 

If some DPS outruns the tank in threat, it's the fault of that DPS player... it's really that simple.

 

Assume that the tank simply CAN'T do more damage AND he already gets a x400% bonus, the DPS most likely has overpowered gear AND/OR he ignored all adds (minor monsters spawned by the boss).

 

So the only right way to avoid this problem is for the DPS guy to slow down the attacks or to simply stop them. Basically, there is no other choice. And it's not a bad idea in general. I'll explain this later.

 

However, it's also a fundamental fault of RO2. Other games did it better: In Dragon Age 2 for example, the DPS classes have skills that reduce threat... In this way, it's a switch of responsibility from the tank class towards the DPS class.

 

5.) Leaves are a bad design and therefore should have been omitted from the game

 

Why? Basically it's not that important WHY a character dies, but what does that mean for other party members:The only benefit of the leaf is that you respawn on site not outside the dungeon... and therefore all the leaf does is to reduces the time all other players have to wait.

 

The final question is, whether waiting for 30-60sec is worth 5 Zeny or not AND whether those who didn't die should invest in this. So RO2 should omit these leaves and invent some minor Spinel Potions f.e. where you can resurrect yourself either when either not in combat or with 1 HP / 0 SP (if the first option isn't possible).

 

8.) If the main tank has to use pots, something is going extremely wrong

 

This might sound odd, but its my main argument against DPS in general. Nearly all bosses in the game create a special attack based on HP-loss or based on remaining HP. Eremes f.e. ALWAYS creates 2 tornados... there is no way that he creates just 1 (if you kill him fast) nor does he ever create 3+. The real issue is whether or not a healer could outheal the "usual" damage of a boss... and usually, the answer is "yes".

 

But what's about the "special attacks"?

 

They never occur in succession, so there is enough time in between for anyone to heal themself. If you don't liike this, a simple deluge is also enough. That's why you can kill Bapho even if all but healer and main-tank are dead.

 

My statements are a bit different:

 

A.) If the Sorcerer uses Land of Recovery on himself

 

As stated above, it's all about keeping the main tank alive. And any additional heal effect is welcome. If LoR is casted on the Sorc, it's useless in 90% of the time. And in case an AoE hits the rest of the group, Deluge and Sanctuary is enough.

 

B.) The damn 2sec for Sanctuary to create an effect

 

I still don't know why the game developer did this. It would have been simple to say: Sanctuary heals 80% now and every 2sec thereafter... this delay can become critical in rare cases.

 

C.) Sanctuary stopped because I moved 1cm

 

Why did they do this? They could have reduced my movement speed by 80-100% and stop the effect when I use a skill (similar to Hide).

 

D.) I select a raid member on the raid screen but in reality, I select another character

 

Ragnarok 2 is THE ONLY EVER EXISTING game (I know) that doesn't implement a mouse-event-propagation rule. It's a software engineer view of it... so in other words: You can click only on things in the foreground.

 

E.) Recovery isn't working

 

Why do they create skills if they aren't working or do not add any value to the game? Simply skip it and implement it later... It would be so cool if Recovery could end Stainer from poisoning you... but hey... nevermind.

I think you maybe misunderstood the general point? Any of those points alone would make things tough, but then to say the entire blame rests on the healer is ridiculous.

 

1) I took "wrong gear" to mean "10-20 levels behind." Sometimes, it's hard to help (though you could always have an artisan craft some up), but having a large number of people undergeared is hard.

 

2) I agree with you that my runs with appropriately leveled, non-bugging parties were the most fun.. though I don't know how realistic that is to find these days. This point alone isn't too big of an issue, but added to the others makes things awful. After all, if you're undergeared but know boss mechanics, you might be able to avoid some insta-deaths.. but if you don't know? You might eat floor.

 

3) If it's the first time in a dungeon, trying to explain to people what to do is hard. Even if people know there role, imagine trying to explain something like "move Moonlight Flower out of her blue circle." I've been in groups that speak English where I explained this and we still wiped hard (tank said he didn't know to move her.. even with me saying ahead of time and yelling MOVE HER MOVE HER OUT OF BLUE). Also, Humbaba is a bad example - I'd say not bugging it requires even more explanation, so the language barrier would be an issue.

 

4+8) Sometimes, it can be beneficial for a tank to use pots, no? Aside from a threat boost on the boss (which really, hopefully the DPS is taking care of adds and backing off), sometimes it can be easier to pot to grab adds than AoE, given some classes' meager ones. But, I think the point on #4 is more that the tank is so undergeared/oddly built that it really should not be tanking. And, for #8, I've totally potted to help healers in Izlude Cave.. Penomena is a beast.

 

And there are many situations I can think of when LoR on self (and thus hitting ranged characters) is beneficial.. and casting it on tanks is sometimes hard due to the mentioned crappy clicking mechanics. I really wish there'd be some progress on clicking through menus, in all parts of the game. :p_swt:


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