- Please make the Jehoon Training Site scale equipment, stats, etc like they do with Colosseum. The gear dependency is ridiculous. First time I ran into a group with just RHD gears and I could feel how overpowered my team was with T1 Colo gears against them. Next rounds we ran into a party with partial T2 and AoD gears completely tearing us all to shreds in seconds.

- Give Statue #3(The one closest to the spawn point of that side of the map.) a longer reach(At least 30m) or at least a method to detect hidden players. Currently classes with the ability to Stealth or run past that statue are able to spawn camp. This can place the opposing team that's being spawn camped in a real pickle when their respawn timers, when dead, are scattered and not all at once.

- ^ That or at least give those who respawn a temporary immunity buff as a "home field" advantage that allows them time to at least buff each other upon respawning before being targeted by the opposing team that's spawn camping.

I can predict easily that the Training Grounds will not have many players doing it in due time when they figure out that it's too heavily gear dependent. Fix the first issue outlined here at least. Gear dependency is the largest contributor towards a lower turnout of players. This is why Colosseum still remains popular and not to mention populated. I don't see why this place is called a "Training Site" when it doesn't necessarily reward teamwork and skills. It rewards teamwork, skills, and mostly "overly geared players." It's overkill when we're talking about gear differences here.

Edited by GuardianTK, 20 November 2013 - 09:36 PM.

I agree. 

 

 

- Please make the Jehoon Training Site scale equipment, stats, etc like they do with Colosseum. The gear dependency is ridiculous. First time I ran into a group with just RHD gears and I could feel how overpowered my team was with T1 Colo gears against them. Next rounds we ran into a party with partial T2 and AoD gears completely tearing us all to shreds in seconds.

Yup, if you dont have full colloseum, AoD or P2W is an instant lose.

 

 

- Give Statue #3(The one closest to the spawn point of that side of the map.) a longer reach(At least 30m) or at least a method to detect hidden players. Currently classes with the ability to Stealth or run past that statue are able to spawn camp. This can place the opposing team that's being spawn camped in a real pickle when their respawn timers, when dead, are scattered and not all at once.

^ this

 

 

- ^ That or at least give those who respawn a temporary immunity buff as a "home field" advantage that allows them time to at least buff each other upon respawning before being targeted by the opposing team that's spawn camping.

Indeed but ill do an extra suggestion, if a player enter to the enemy base, just like league of legends need to be instant nuked.

Is stupid how players stay on base killing players 1 per 1 during the respawn.

Just wait until you see decked out premades utilizing seed runes =)

It honestly made me so bitter I considered going back to playing LoL. It's a moba inside an mmo  minus everything that makes moba fun.

should remove the op item buffs, matches turns lopsided with it.

 

Indeed but ill do an extra suggestion, if a player enter to the enemy base, just like league of legends need to be instant nuked.

 

Is stupid how players stay on base killing players 1 per 1 during the respawn.

Gimme oneshotting guardian towers inside respawn base pls~

Also, towers SHOULD detect stealthed players. Otherwise it will become a battle of sins/rogues/rangers only! (ohgosh, the nightmares...).

Seriously, tho... should give a balanced stats/lvl like in Colo, to allow freshly 50s to join this. There's no point in making good strategies or knowing how to play your class in there if you'll get oneshotted and mercilessly murdered by a fullcolo-geared or full-AoD geared team who, soon as they farmed enough, they'll get the full advantage with the op scroll/buffs. That's..  a little insane.

Even tho I'm another player of LoL too, I didn't really expect this Training Site to be much moba-like anyways; if anything, it has few elements of it, but doesn't have the most important ones. You can't just toss in two random groups already geared, one of them possibly heavily geared/buffed from the beginning, and expect this to be a "fair battle". You're giving the advantage already to "whoever has more gear/runes/p2w buffs, etc".

Seriously, tho... should give a balanced stats/lvl like in Colo, to allow freshly 50s to join this. There's no point in making good strategies or knowing how to play your class in there if you'll get oneshotted and mercilessly murdered by a fullcolo-geared or full-AoD geared team who, soon as they farmed enough, they'll get the full advantage with the op scroll/buffs. That's..  a little insane.

 

There was a time when Cres rushing in to my Sorc trying to give sleep and I one shot him every single time. 5k+ HP.

The next day a SM appears teaming up with a priest, 3k+ HP each. This doesn't ends here.

I doubt any of them will participate again. True story. I feel sorry for them. I can't even enjoy such thing. I mean, honestly. I'm not a LoL player but I have been playing RO2 for 7 years, I do pubstomp from time to time, just a few games a month. The rest we just having fun in Captain Mode matchmaking. If there is no fight, then there is no competition. No competition eliminates the entertainment. 

I don't have a problem with scaling equipment BUT they'll also have to find a way to scale healing.

It makes no sense that PvP damage is being increased dramatically by the combination of T2 colo gears, ChungLimSa runes, and of course the scrolls, but our heals are still being restricted by the magic power we get scaled to. I know damage reduction gets increased as well, but with the way the scrolls work, there will always be more damage over reduction.

Either include healing as a part of the PvP damage %, or provide scrolls (at reasonable prices) to increase our healing. I mean...aside from the Endurance and Wind scrolls, there's not much else a Priest can invest into. +100% damage on PC for 60 Chakras? I'd like a +100% healing power scroll, too.

I hate priest, they can do well even with just defensive buff scrolls.. I always find them and shoot them first.. Ffffffffffff just die already >.<

What I do as non-p2w player using what I did as RO2 player to troll people in TG.. how to make myself less suck in TG (shooting melee and tabbing priest)

When I got this whisper, I know I am less suck now.

But still died with this Spear.

Where did she came from anyway.. I keep getting the spear out of nowhere

Guess I still suck in a way

The fact that ranged classes have such an advantage in PVP is a balance and game feature issue. You shouldn't be allowed to cast spells and shoot arrows through walls. Come on. This was pointed out with the side rooms in Colosseum as well!

The fact that ranged classes have such an advantage in PVP is a balance and game feature issue. You shouldn't be allowed to cast spells and shoot arrows through walls. Come on. This was pointed out with the side rooms in Colosseum as well!

I feel like back in fps games~

Seriously... is it so hard to code the game so that ranged classes cannot shoot through walls?? (and I say this, yes, as someone who mains two strong ranged classes). Target is one thing, but if we try to shoot with a wall/obstacle in front of us, there should be some kind of "Target is out of view/sight" warning so we cannot do it. 

Just bring back the old Teleportation for Wiz, then I wouldn't say anything about range can or cannot shooting through walls.

It is friggin teleport, not fast forward in straight line. (I wouldn't talk further detail the mechanic and games comparison because that would just bring off topic)

Edited by FluffyMiyu, 26 November 2013 - 07:00 PM.

hi bestfren!

To be honest I do not agree with making things "fair" by nerfing(making gear like colo) people who took the time to get their gear and runes. I am just now getting colo gear(have 4 pieces of t2) I started doing training grounds the day it came out in aod gear. There are teams that roflstomp the out of me, but I still don't think they need to get nerfed. Just because new players have to work a bit before they can get into jehoon and do good doesn't mean we have to nerf those who took time to get "good". Spend a little time getting geared then come to 5v5 or q up and pray you don't go against good teams. Gaming now basically consists of catering to the new and excuse my language but over the vets... People need to learn to work a little. lvl 15 -> colo -> get t1, Aod or t2 -> Come play in jehoon and have fun getting your runes.

Also statue detect would defeat the point of announcing your scroll sales people have been killed it would be impossiburu to get to them.

(If i'm not allowed to give my opinon about your suggestions here let me know and I will remove the post)

Edited by Baddiez, 28 November 2013 - 02:24 PM.

I say no to the suggestion regarding Colo balance, but that's for personal reasons.

I personally like the idea of being somewhat under-geared, and trying to beat the other team. It makes a win so much more sweet if you can win against them, despite having less gear than them. Skill and gear are separate, afterall (which is why Embus users are so easy to pick out), though yes, better gear does increase HP, SP, Defense, Vigor, Haste and Damage. It also increases Dodge and Parry in place of Haste and Vigor for Tanks. Still, having more skill means you could overwhelm the other team, even if you've got less-than-the-best gear out there.

I spent around 8 hours or so, total, in Jehoon's Training Ground, within a period of like 2 days. I DO NOT like PVP. However, I came to enjoy it in RO1 through WOE SE and Battlegrounds. Jehoon's Training Ground is the closest I've seen to RO1's Battlegrounds. It's still pretty far off, but enjoyable nonetheless. It allowed people level 70 or higher to participate (I've only played private Servers, but that was the allowed level on the ones I've played, so not sure if that's official or not). The level allowance isn't too different from allowing an under-geared 50 and an over-geared 50 to participate in the exact same environment.

However, if it's that much of an issue, I would like to offer a compromise suggestion; 2 separate forms of Jehoon's Training ground, one with Colo type balance (meaning even allowing people level 10 or higher to participate under the level 50 scaling balance, with ALL COLO BUFFS), and one that is without Colo buffs and without the level balancing. That should satisfy the majority.

As for the stealth thing, even a non-stealth class can Spawn-Camp you. The best thing to do would be to have the center dragon statue enraged at all times (1000% damage boost should be sufficient enough to pierce any reduction they may have), with a range large enough to cover just inside the entrance. The dragon statue can reveal hidden enemies and kill them (should be a one-hit kill, on anyone, with that damage increase). The enrage buff should only drop if the first few statues are killed first.

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 28 November 2013 - 03:42 PM.

I don't mind people shooting through walls. I just wish that there was a bar/tab to see your statues hp (so you'd at least know when someone was trying to steal your statue >.<).. 

For the sake of most players on server, yes, I agree with scaling so more people can participate. Hopefully, there would be more dependence on teamwork and less people complaining when they just outright lose. (But Attack/Defense runes should still benefit whoever has them. Those were really hard to get.)

Scrolls/Dragon buffs are fine imo. The things I'd like to see fixed is when you press caps lock (or whatever you have it hot-keyed) to view the team lists, it sometimes doesn't display what scrolls the opponent or your team members are using. Knowing what scrolls the opponent has is vital to finding a counter to it. And that 80% PC dmg decrease scroll ... Ugh, that needs to be fixed asap... Getting hit for only 200-300hp by a statue is ridiculous @_@

Right now fresh lvl 50 have no reason to go to the training site, because most likely they will not make it, and if this continues the gap between  fresh people and old people will become bigger and bigger. Eventually this will become the playground of those who cheated with embus to get their gear

I'm going to post this suggestion in here as well.

I think that the queue should be setup for 10 people.  Everyone enters by themselves and gets put on random teams.  This should prevent guilds from running a train on other players who pug, like myself and many others.  It's not a Guild vs Guild battle, it's just PvP, Red vs Blue it should be completely random.

Basically all that is happening is the pug players are feeding tokens to the guild players and getting them the att rune, while we sit and get slaughtered, most of the time even unable to farm for our dailies.

Most of those players who do nothing but lose have quit the Training Ground all together already.  Balancing gears isn't the right way to go, it punishes people who have worked hard for their gear.  By randomizing the teams, higher geared players can be placed alongside newer level 50's and level the playing field in that respect, giving everyone an equal opportunity to win fairly.

So you want to remove the only way for guildies/friends to pvp together from the game just because you cannot take the time to make a decent team....imo if you want free for all go to colo ( but we all know how that works out ) G_G

Also please stop generalizing all premades as guilds I go in with a lot of friends who are not in my guild or even some time just carry some random pug so he/she can farm and get runes while i get my main statue quest done.

Edited by Baddiez, 05 December 2013 - 06:10 PM.

What are you going to do when absolutely no one wants to go in there because they can't get their runes, they can't win and they just get rolled over?  We are providing fodder for you to get your runes and thats all.  Once enough people get pissed off, you won't have any way to get them anymore.  So something needs to be done to balance it out while there is still time to salvage it.

I don't think randomizing all the people to different teams is a bad thing, I mean honestly it's not like you still won't have your guildies/friends on your team, you just might not have all of them.  You can have a fun game playing against your guildies/friends just the same as if they were on your team.  It's all in the spirit of fun.  I think with this way also, both teams will more than likely play to win.  Half the people who join just want to farm.  There are guild based options to do, like WoE if you absolutely must play with your guild.  Also it's not that I don't take the time to make a team together either, I friend just about everyone who goes into Jehoons, just so I can try to get someone to play with and against.  It is slim pickens, the way it's being played now is only making it worse to the point no one will play at all and thats a shame.

Oh, this is flukeSG2/SG1 by the way, I can't figure out how to change my damn name from these stupid numbers.  Anyways, I bitch and I moan and I complain about losing in there, yes, but I still want to play in there.  I don't necessarily hate losing, a good fight is always fun.  However, 5 people who want to win against 1 guy who wants to win and 4 would be farmers, who don't even have the necessary gear to equip these runes into, is not a fair fight nor is it fun.  Baddiez, you and I had some good fights with Athrun and vau and shinz today, we lost but it was a damn good fight.

I'm going to post this suggestion in here as well.

 

I think that the queue should be setup for 10 people.  Everyone enters by themselves and gets put on random teams.  This should prevent guilds from running a train on other players who pug, like myself and many others.  It's not a Guild vs Guild battle, it's just PvP, Red vs Blue it should be completely random.

 

Basically all that is happening is the pug players are feeding tokens to the guild players and getting them the att rune, while we sit and get slaughtered, most of the time even unable to farm for our dailies.

 

Most of those players who do nothing but lose have quit the Training Ground all together already.  Balancing gears isn't the right way to go, it punishes people who have worked hard for their gear.  By randomizing the teams, higher geared players can be placed alongside newer level 50's and level the playing field in that respect, giving everyone an equal opportunity to win fairly.

It seems that they were going for something similar to RO1 Battlegrounds, which people have been demanding ever since WoE was seen as a failure in comparison to RO1 WoE. The only thing I think they fell short on was indeed the random teams. It would be nice if they actually make them random.

You can already click on the NPC to get automatically put into a party.

All they have to do is make sure the party has 1 Healer, and 4 DPS (additional Healers and Tanks are completely optional). This would assure a proper PUG structure. Basically, they just need to reverse the system they already have to exclude people who are already in a party, and force people to just click the NPC. If they want to go so bad, then they should do it at random.

Not only is it fair, but it makes it more fun. You get to PVP with your friends, either alongside them, or against them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Only issue is the potential of people throwing the game by refusing to compete against their guild/friends, like some people do in Colo.  If Person A is in Team Red with 4 randoms, and Person A's 4 friends are on the Blue Team, then there's the possibility that Person A will just refuse to participate. Now, while that may not make or break the game, if Person A happens to be the best person on the Red Team (especially a Priest), then it could be a potential problem.

Regardless, if the new system came out, then people who throw the games like that could probably be punished somehow by it if they do it continuously.

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 06 December 2013 - 04:29 PM.

I just tried it out today for the first time and here's the deal:

Farming + PvP do not mix!

It doesn't make sense to have an area which you are quested to farm be also an area for PvP. Because people go in with mixed interests and what fun is it winning against a team that's not even playing the same game you are? There needs to be a way to go into the map and farm and do the dailies like once a day or a timer or something and when you go in for PvP it's ONLY for PvP.

I also think the gear gap is too high of a difference. I've beaten people with slightly better gear than me or surprised folks at how close I can get, but in the end gear makes a giant difference. I want my skills to be tested not "oh gee I didn't get all my gear from x dungeon yet so I suppose I can't enjoy this part of the game". Give it the colo treatment like TK suggested. It'll bring in more players since it's people that don't actually have good gear that need the BP in the first place. I'll save my over-geared vs under-geared fights for duels. I'm not afraid of real competition and want people to be on the same level as I am.

But I guess none of these suggestions really matter because Jehoon is a ghost town and I can see why. Reminds me of the WoE map which was also farming + pvp. It doesn't work, Gravity. Separate them.

I guess people should have just tried it right from the beginning without getting discouraged......

When it frst came out...it wasnt that bad even without any runes....then i met zyh ^_^

Id say just get the runes from the event...those r easy to get....and there is no harm in asking the other team if they want to farm. And tier 2 colo is pretty easy to get with the current BP event.

As far as suggestions go...i think it would b a good idea to make statues 1 shot people if the frst statue isnt destroyed. Like statue 2...n 3 one shots if statue 1 isnt destroyed....or main statue one shots if the other 2 arent destroyed....that would solve spawn camping and killing npcs.

Edited by nashR2, 11 December 2013 - 04:08 AM.

I don't understand why people act as if killing npcs was not intended... there is even an announcement for it lol.