CD Changes discussion - Page 2 - ROSE Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

CD Changes discussion


  • Please log in to reply
173 replies to this topic

#26 jerremy

jerremy

    Knight Representative

  • Members
  • 6045 posts
  • LocationYour closet.
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Currently unknown

Posted 30 December 2013 - 04:46 AM

You are allowed to use buff pots in pvp games. You can buy them from an NPC in Junon. She is on the left side of the field where you get the dailies, up on the stairs.

While they are available, I do understand why no one really uses them and preferrably avoids combat without a cleric (although it is rather silly)

Sure you will have some buffs, but it's not just simply buffs that make or break a game, it's the strength of said buffs. Some of these pots might not be that bad compared to cha cleric buffs, but there's quite a difference for some others. 

The two best examples are movement speed and attack speed. The 17.5% aspd a pot gives or the 107% aspd from a max cha cleric, you stand practically no chance.

10%+50 for a movement pot, or 10%+600ish on cleric buffs. It's practically impossible to catch up to or run away from someone with such a large difference in speed.

Add on top of that the fact that you also don't have heals, even on buff pots you still have a nearly nonexistant chance at victory.

 

Personally I think for these pots to be useful, the strength of them needs to be quite a bit higher.


  • 1

#27 Bendersmom

Bendersmom

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationUSA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:13 AM

Why not make the buff pots more equal to a decent charm cleric buffs, then more people might use them.  Then people might use them instead of having to constantly rely on a cleric.  It would be ok for pvp in TG and stuff too.

 

And put honor MP and HP pots on a different cool down from the red and blue pots.  That way people would not rely so much on heals and clerics and clerics will get less healing points.  In addition, with mana break taking all of your mp in under 3 sec (and I have around 7k MP) you would stand a chance of regenning the MP at least to heal yourself. 

 

I do not have the sleep skills because they are so annoying.  The cool down definitely has to be longer and personally I can think of other aoes that would be more useful to a cleric then the annoying sleep. It is not really a game changer and when used in the middle at the crystal with all the other aoes going on, it doesn't really last for long.  To me it is just mostly annoying as hell, kind of like a swarm of mosquitoes.  And the unique sleep poison cloud with 300 dmg is not worth the SP.  I would rather see a def down aoe or mspd down or maybe actually be able to do a bit of damage with the aoe skill.  


  • 0

#28 jerremy

jerremy

    Knight Representative

  • Members
  • 6045 posts
  • LocationYour closet.
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Currently unknown

Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:03 AM

And put honor MP and HP pots on a different cool down from the red and blue pots.  That way people would not rely so much on heals and clerics and clerics will get less healing points.  In addition, with mana break taking all of your mp in under 3 sec (and I have around 7k MP) you would stand a chance of regenning the MP at least to heal yourself. 

If this gets done, there really needs to be a cap on clerics though. If this becomes possible then dying will happen even less than now, and it's already rather stale when there's a few clerics on a team.

Not that I dislike the idea, cause it would be really helpful, but just implementing it like that it might be troublesome.


Edited by jerremy, 30 December 2013 - 06:10 AM.

  • 0

#29 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:09 AM

I occasionally will use buff potions in wars if there is no cleric around. In the end though, if you have no cleric, it won't even matter if you use buff potions or not, because without any heals, you'll die shortly and need to use more buff potions again to repeat the same process. Not only are the weaker as people mentioned, but you also need to take 11 slots in your consumable inventory for them. 


  • 0

#30 Logi

Logi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1060 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 09:50 AM

True, I see em more as a means of getting back into the fight without a superlarge target on your head saying: "kill me I'm without buffs", without heals, even some, even knights have a hard time.


  • 0

#31 DigitalKitten

DigitalKitten

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4996 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis, Draconis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

Oh how could I have missed this thread?

 

What many people think is that clerics are useless without buffs, but that's where their thinking about balance goes wrong. A game should never depend on one class that much. Crystal defenders, draconis peaks and akram arena aren't bad games if we look with an over all aspect, but in my opnion, the actual buffs are so game breaking that it isn't even funny. I was hoping that the new skill update would change this and nerf buffs but now buffs are more OP than they've ever been. 

 

Yes, I agree that it's ok if both sides have clerics because then both sides have buffs, but should it really be in a way where a game gets boring just because there's one class too little? Being two sides without a cleric at all or two sides with clerics works perfectly fine. It's not an issue about healing even though I agree that their survivability is over the top for now, but I'm just talking about the buffs. 

 

The thought around it is nice, I get that people want to be the most wanted class in a game, but the way buffs should work in my opinion:

 

Buffs shouldn't be a must. They should be a bonus. Futhermore, nerf buffs - a lot. I don't think that the players should expect buffs and cross their fingers for having a cleric in the game. 

 

Selfbuffs should be improved in the way that all classes should at least have 1 - 2 self buffs. This is pretty much what it is already, but I feel like the buffs shouldn't increase all your stats, they should exist to make your class stick out from the other classes. Ex. A raider could have a good crit and good dodge buff, like they do, while a knight got a good defense buff etc. 

 

Where's the fun in having all stats increased the same like everyone else? You would have to beat classes more different if self buffs were more attractive then they are. Yes people use self buffs, but do they stick out? - not really. You could get nearly the same buffs from the clerics anyway. 

 

It's not that I'm saying "make clerics underpowered" rather, fix what's broken. Everyone leaves a game without a cleric, or eventually gives up. There's a reason why everyone wants a cleric restriction in each game. If there always was a cleric, it wouldn't be a problem, but that's not the case.

 

 

As for the hide-in-crystal, I completely agree. A no honor zone within a certain range around the crystal, make people run around and do things more than just hide like chickens and aoe.

 

I agree with most of the things that's been said, about manabreak as well. But another thing I would like to bring up is more class balance related than only cd itself, I wish for them to make it more clear what classes can kill certain classes easier. Mages kill knights easier, while mages die from other classes easier... depending on m-def and those other things that we're aware of, I wish for it to be even stronger like that, and clerics don't really have a certain class that can beat them easier than others. I sound like a cleric hater now but I play cleric myself and I feel like I can tank for days.

 

Back in the days, being a cleric was a challange, you had to run around and you couldn't heal your team the way you do now. Having two clerics in the team, the other one has to run away a bit while the second cleric is muted, aoe purify / purify over all and they can heal back and forth all the time. I remember that I mixed my cleric with mspeed gears and what not, but that's nowhere needed anymore. I simply dont' find the joy with standing in one spot, moving 5 meters and then standing in the same spot two minutes again. CD lacks tactic completely.

 

And then when it comes to Draconis Peaks, the issue is definitly people. I feel like the minimum should be 5v5 but if there's more people in the que and it's an even number - let them in. I don't think there should be any restriction on how many people should join Akram  Arena either, we played it 4 times in a row yesterday, or eh.. 5 because I didn't get in once, there was around 10 people that missed the que - people will play the game as long as it gets announced. 

 

And when it comes to akram arena, the crystals need to be tweaked a bit. They get down sooo quick, we stood at the dusk crystal 1 minute and it was down, they didn't even manage to buff up and come near us before it was down, it needs to be looked into a bit. 

 

And at last, back to draconis peaks. I feel like there's no challange to grab an egg when people don't defend the base if the number is 5v5, as a raider you can sneak grab a egg and run away, could you guys make the dragon do a tiny bit more damage while you pick the egg up?
And also, when you stealth in draconis peaks it's completely useless, people see the circle around your feet and I always know where to decloak, I would love to be able to cloak / stealth normally in draconis peaks as well. 

 

Another thing about Draconis peaks, it's a low point game which is understandable when there's so little people, but I would love for the eggs to give points, so depending on how many eggs a single player picks and returns would give points. I've noticed that many times I'm the only one working hard on getting the eggs to the other side, appearing I'm the only one doing it, while the other people just do damage on the dragon or kill other players for more kills.

 

Sorry for the messy post er... ~


Edited by DigitalKitten, 30 December 2013 - 01:14 PM.

  • 0

#32 Bendersmom

Bendersmom

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationUSA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 02:09 PM

I understand what you are saying about buffs but without being the class with buffs what else would a cleric be used for? Heals?  That is even more boring.  I wear good gear in CD and I do a lot of things.  I get targeted by the other team and get my mana drained, slept, muted, stunned continually if there are more than one cleric on the other team.  With all that being thrown at me I go down fast.  You can't heal yourself more or less your team if you have no mana and are asleep or muted most of the war.  And that is with another cleric purifying, etc.  But we were both targets of 5 clerics and the fighters, so neither of us had mana. 

 

But in saying that I do understand what you are saying, I think.  It is not that clerics are OP, it is that buffs in general make players OP.  But the theory is that if all are buffed then it is fair.  The problem comes in when there are no clerics around to buff people.  Even if you lower the power of buffs then all will still want them, even if they are less powerful.  To me it would be a have buffs or don't have buffs for the cleric.  Lowering their power will not make things any different then they are now except that maybe some of the mobs would be tougher.  I do remember Leo once saying that maybe each class could have buffs that are specific to their classes but would also be party buffs.  So that if you have a balanced team of the classes then you would receive all of the buffs.  But then we are back to balanced teams.  So for every pro to no or lower buffs there is a con.  And if clerics do not have buffs at all, which would be the only real way to make a difference, then they would need other skills then just healing.  Otherwise it would be super boring to play cleric.

 

Personally I still really have fun playing cleric in GA.  Lately with all of the sleeps, mutes, and mana break it has gotten very frustrating, but one good war makes the 2 terrible ones worth it.  

 

But clerics need to be distributed evenly in GA and there has to be a max of 3 clerics per side.  Even if clerics need to queue separately to make it work.  Unfortunately we would not be able to queue up with our friends and it might make the queue messed up again.

 

And why couldn't you make the Honor buff pots like the cleric merged buff pots to save some room in everyone's storage.  You can combine them into the 6 like the buff tomes we can get.  Or for a bit more honor points one buff pot that would buff all buffs for the GA games (both dungeons and pvp games).


  • 0

#33 Mystiqueforce

Mystiqueforce

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 181 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 30 December 2013 - 04:17 PM

remember how cleric functions in UW before.. they were pretty useful yet they were not necessary... if the group has no cleric they could just pop some buff pots (which were better than cleric buffs before)


  • 4

#34 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 December 2013 - 04:39 PM

If everyone has full buffs, its almost the same as if no one has any buffs. This makes the concept of having buffs kind of redundant and leads to balancing issues. 

 

 

 

Also what happened to respawning back inside the game arena map after disconnecting. These past 2 days I have constantly been disconnecting inside (not disconnecting anywhere else) and it's getting old. Today I haven't been able to finish a single game because I keep disconnecting inside.


Edited by Phish, 30 December 2013 - 04:40 PM.

  • 2

#35 pdfisher

pdfisher

    Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 5246 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania, in the heart of PA dutch country
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:36 PM

I have never respawned inside when I DC, I thought that was just a myth.


  • 0

#36 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

Hmm I thought you could respawn inside in the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong though.


  • 0

#37 Bendersmom

Bendersmom

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationUSA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:59 PM

No, we have never been able to respawn back in dungeons or GA.  If there is still an opening and they are still on the first or second crystal you can usually rejoin, but if the spot was filled or they are on the 3rd crystal you can't get back in.....buy all of your energy is burned for that round.

 

And that is what I mean Phish about the buffs...if you reduce them then people will still want them for that bit of edge.  So it should be yes buffs or no buffs by clerics.  Same difference as long as they make the buff pots worthwhile in CD. And you are right, carrying 12 buff pots is ridiculous. There should be a way to reduce them to 6 (combined buffs) or even 1 pot with all buffs. 

 

We also suggested putting a buffing station at the respawn areas too, then if there is no cleric people could at least get buffs.  And when they respawn and there is not a cleric in that area they could get buffs.  The buffs could be as good as a medium charm cleric since a lot of clerics don't fight in max charm gear anyway.  Then clerics can still have their buffs for TG and stuff but the Game Arenas would not be wholly dependent on cleric buffs. 


  • 0

#38 DoubleRose

DoubleRose

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1217 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:44 PM

To the people calling to nerf buffs

Hopefully you mean in only pvp situations?  We don't want to make pvm impossible.



 

 


Edited by DoubleRose, 30 December 2013 - 07:44 PM.

  • 0

#39 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

Making cleric buffs weaker isn't the answer, as Bendersmom said people will still "need" buffs to fight with. PvM difficulty is something different entirely, the discussion about buffs here is more of a theoretical one rather than a solution. 

 

I think the game as a whole would function better if for example Clerics only had a party HP/MP buff and all classes had 1-3 self buffs of their own. The party Str/Dex/Con/Int buffs would be fine too. Buff potions and item mall buffs would be removed. Some passives would probably need to be increased a little and monsters weakened. 

 

With this Clerics would still support, mainly through heals, bonfires, purify, reviving. And with only 2 party buffs they wouldn't make such a massive impact as they do now. You wouldn't necessarily need cleric buffs for leveling either. 

 

Obviously this is too radical of a change to even consider, it's just theorizing. Buffs have been so a major factor in Rose for so many years a change like this would be abrupt. The main reason that this can't happen unfortunately is because of item mall buffs, which are revenue for Gravity and can't just be removed. The only way they could remain is if they were weakened significantly.


Edited by Phish, 30 December 2013 - 07:58 PM.

  • 0

#40 TheThinker

TheThinker

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • Locationinside your brain
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:00 PM

Before this pacth cd fully of bourgs, after that a tons of scout, then a tons of xbow scout, and knight, now a tons of champ and cleric... Sooooo this what you called FUN???

Edited by Leonis, 02 January 2014 - 01:31 PM.

  • 2

#41 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:52 AM

When you are talking about PVM, it brings my blood to the boiling point. As many of you have known from reading my previous posts from other threads, I had just come back recently and met with a big shock about the changing in PVM system. Before the break, which is before the skill system changing, my champion's attack power was at 10,000 or more. I could AoE and kill most monsters within 2 strikes. Now, even with all the unique passive and IM passive, my champion's attack power is only near 3,000. After cleric buff and raging berserk, I can AoE and kill most monsters within 10 strikes (or so). Worse, the experience gain rate is seriously low. I think it is only 1/3 to 1/5 when comparing with the experience rate prior to my break, and I thought the previous experience rate was already too slow. If we make the cleric any weaker, you can forget about leveling because not many people will enough patient to train 230 levels with such slow speed.
  • 0

#42 DigitalKitten

DigitalKitten

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 4996 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis, Draconis

Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:34 AM

I have the wishful thinking of separating PvP and PvM completely. I know it's already a bit separated, but I mean a whole skill tree for PvM. In PvM buffs aren't an issue.

However I agree with phish on the whole self buff matter.
  • 0

#43 jagz

jagz

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 983 posts
  • LocationMaryland
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:The Crashing One

Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:58 PM

Max clerics 3 per side

Max players per team raise to 12

Min amount of players per team to start war to 6 or 7

?????

Profit


  • 2

#44 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:08 PM

Maybe this will help to encourage the cleric balance in wars:

 

ensi.png

 

There was actually one more cleric in the beginning that disconnected, making a total of 7 clerics on the defending side (11 total.)


Edited by Phish, 01 January 2014 - 10:12 PM.

  • 2

#45 Bendersmom

Bendersmom

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationUSA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:31 AM

Wow, that is nuts.  Those wars are no fun.  They just turn into stalemates usually if the clerics are evenly distributed.

 

On the other side of the coin, having one cleric on a side vs 3+ clerics on the other side is a horrible war.  The one cleric is constantly stunned, muted, slept and all of the mana drained.  And if the one is on the attackers side then it is really bad.  The whole match they are yelled at to heal, buff, etc, when they are just trying to stay alive long enough to help.

 

Again, we go back to limiting the number of clerics per side again.  Even if the clerics have to queue individually (which I don't want to do but will if we have to make it more even and fun).  

 

Also, is there a way to work the queue so that everyone signs up, but the people are not distributed until the minimum number in queue has been reached.  Then the queue distributes the people per side and sends invites.  That way if you sign up with a group but you don't do it until towards the end, the group will be put on one side then the others will be distributed around that,  Right now, a lot of times the queue has more than enough people sign up but it doesn't go if there is a big (5+) group signed up.  I think that it is because they signed up later in the process and no side can take the 5+.  Does that make sense?


  • 0

#46 Logi

Logi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1060 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 January 2014 - 03:04 AM

Maybe this will help to encourage the cleric balance in wars:

 

--picture--

 

There was actually one more cleric in the beginning that disconnected, making a total of 7 clerics on the defending side (11 total.)

 

lol, idk who made the remark but someone in CD said:  " its funny how once you can get points as cleric you suddenly see clerics pop up everywhere, and everyone and their mother play cleric in war"

 

Make it so we dont get points for healing the crystal or..... if thats to hard a mechanic, make it so the xtal CAN NOT be healed, just increase its defense and hp if you do ( not alot, just a little).

 

All these new clerics........ half of them have no idea how to play the class and just press party heal every few seconds..... mute or sleep or purify just goes unused and when you are muted as cleric they dont even keep an eye on that, making it so as the other cleric you get yelled at for not healing or doing stuff while your standing there muted, sleeping/ stunned.

 

Luckily I do often see a few pro clerics which make for fun wars.... unless they learn to SPAM manabreak into oblivion. I understand that its a tactic to disable a cleric, but we would like to play in war, not stand there muted and stunned waiting for it to stop......

 

Some people also have no idea what it is to be cleric and expect us to heal them near the xtal, period. They run in, take massive ammounts of damage from aoes there and then want us to heal through that, charm or not it wont work, as not your healpower but the eventual cooldowns become a problem. They insist on standing there and aoeing ( both defense and attack). Every single time we do take the right tactic and lure them out, the war gets longer, we make a few kills and have alot of fun, compared to getting whiped of the map in .5sec flat.......

 

As much hate as I might get for it: champions ... learn to play please...

 

Once again there are people who do know what to do and as a cleric its fun to support them  with tactical heals, a mute or purify here and there, not just spamming the heal button. Making a cleric so that this is needed would be better because atm all you need to do is: get chiv or glor or reinforced and refine it to 15, make your glasses and backiterm and jewelry charm based to strengthen heals,, healspam healspam. This is not the build I'm using but many a cleric in war just goes for this.....


  • 1

#47 DoubleRose

DoubleRose

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1217 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:09 AM

Champions are not strong. (If you want to crush them into oblivion play a battle cleric instead of trying to use the same class over and over and claiming that it isn't working.  Wands do magic damage and are ranged, which wrecks champs). Champs are seen in CD because having a cleric on their team completely makes up for their weaknesses, making them an unstoppable force. But not just any cleric, only the first order optimal (much easier than the best way to play but almost as powerful) heal bot cleric that doesn't know what they are doing.

 

Champions are not ranged and have no way to heal.  Either they cannot attack and get shot down from afar, or they charge into enemy lines so they can damage enemies.  Even though they are pretty tanky, both of those things will kill them.  Cleric heals have very high range (I would like to see heals have a tad lower range but skills to raise the range of their heals higher than they are now), so they are able to give the champion massive healing from the safety of their own allies. Remember that the game is set up that if a ranged character and a melee character fight at close range, the melee character is supposed to win. A champion can ravage the back lines of the enemy and not die if clerics continue to heal them.  I'd like to see not heal spam play be more rewarding. It's powerful and easy points to spam party heals and target heal the crystal or an ally who is under attack.


Edited by DoubleRose, 02 January 2014 - 06:20 AM.

  • 0

#48 Bendersmom

Bendersmom

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 2000 posts
  • LocationUSA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:34 AM

I agree with Logi, the strategy of playing Game arena games is a lot of fun, but sorely lacking atm.  I understand that the champs feel they have to run into the crystal and kill since they are not ranged, but in a lot of games, luring people out to kill them is the smartest way.  The problem is that when 2 clerics are up against 5 clerics it is really hard to get near the crystal to support the champs and mages that need to run into the mass of people.  I try to stay back but am targeted right off with mutes and mana break.  Then I get attacked by the other team's melee classes or scouts.  With being stunned, slept, muted and no mana it is really hard to support the team in general more or less the people in the crystal.  I know the best strategy is to kill the clerics, but we are still rarely protected by our team mates.  Many times I am getting attacked by 3 people and muted by the clerics while my team yells for me to heal them.  But no one is as used to watching the group stats as much as a cleric.  The other classes can't see that I am dying and muted?  I just don't think they look or realize.  But in games that I play with clannies or people on ventrilo I can yell Help. But atm I still think xbow scouts, bourgs and champs are a bit OP.  And I think summons are really OP.


  • 0

#49 DoubleRose

DoubleRose

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1217 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:45 AM

I didn't like seeing the ratios on bourg spells lowered when they were considered overpowered.  I'd rather see the classes that are not as strong get more power.  Hurting a class's pvp cripples their pvm

 

Please don't weaken summons, just make them take extra damage in pvp

 

To clerics who see a fellow cleric muted, please purify them


Edited by DoubleRose, 02 January 2014 - 06:56 AM.

  • 0

#50 Logi

Logi

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1060 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:22 AM

 

 

Please don't weaken summons, just make them take extra damage in pvp

 

To clerics who see a fellow cleric muted, please purify them

 

Isnt the problem with summons that they do damage asif they are in a pvm situation but attack people obviously in pvp gear, so those people take dmg at increased lvls. Lowering their surivability might help, cerntainly worth a try. Its not really me ( asin cleric or knight) that gets hurt by those summons alot by I've had to heal ppl like crazy that were under attack by them.

 

Oh yes please puri, takes so little time, so worth while, with the aoe puri its even easier ...


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users