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#1 Njoror

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:07 PM

Hello, everyone.

 

We want to gather feedback on each class to better balancing.

 

This thread will be about the Beastmaster class. If you've played Beastmaster and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.

 

To make things easier to read, please use the following form:

 

Character:

Feedback Type(Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion)

Skill (If Applicable):

Feedback:

 

We appreciate all feedback given, and will use it when discussing changes to the studio.

Also, if you think another category in the form is required, let me know and I'll change it up!


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#2 Arbalist

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 05:58 PM

I believe I've been playing my Beastmaster since week 2 of release, it's very dear to me. This means I've suffered through the tough times, and I am hating the fact that post-AOV is simply a faceroll for us.

Character: Arbalist

Feedback TypeSkill

Skill (If Applicable): Ymir Child: Gaia + Bear Carnival

Feedback: Cannot be activated while in Grizzly form. If this is intended, I'm fine with it, but it would be nice if Master Skill "Bear Carnival" wasn't tied to it, so that Grizzly mains can use it as an option. Again if this is intended, then whatever.

 

Feedback TypeStats

Stat: Vitality

Feedback: Currently, 1 Vit gives 2 Defense for BM. At master level 20, I have 66% def in human/bear/tiger form and 75% def in grizzly form. This is without insane runes/seeds, and before VIP. I feel that because beastmasters already have the highest HP, we don't need to hit the defence cap too (which by the way is never discussed, is it still 75%?). I know that warriors are also capable of achieving 75% def easily with defender. Defence should be the niche role of knights, and so I feel that if we are able to match it in any way, you're just driving away the knight community. I might give the suggestion of changing it to 1 vit = 1 def, or having the 1 vit = 2 def apply only in Grizzly form, but I'm not entirely sure that will solve any problems. 

 

As much as I love being nearly invincible, the truth of the matter is that defense stat is unbalanced. This could be an issue of the game itself, where monsters are simply too weak, but it's an issue I'd like to see discussed for the long term. Frankly, being invincible breeds ignorance and laziness and I sometimes feel ashamed. I would rather be balanced than overpowered (despite knowing how weak we were pre-AOV). 

TL;DR: Our defense is too high in human and bear forms (and maybe even grizzly). We are taking away a niche role that I feel is better suited for knights. Knights should have the highest defense, beastmasters can keep the highest HP.
 

Feedback TypeStats

Stat: HP

Feedback: This is the one thing I care about. Ask any of my guildies; I've become obsessed. Having the niche of highest HP is perfectly acceptable for Beastmasters and I would rather that no one touches the hp as it is. Don't even consider changing HP without thinking carefully about defence first. If you are going to change tanking classes in any way, leave beastmasters as masters of hp control. 

 


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#3 Scribble92

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:07 PM

 

I believe I've been playing my Beastmaster since week 2 of release, it's very dear to me. This means I've suffered through the tough times, and I am hating the fact that post-AOV is simply a faceroll for us.

Character: Arbalist

Feedback TypeSkill

Skill (If Applicable): Ymir Child: Gaia + Bear Carnival

Feedback: Cannot be activated while in Grizzly form. If this is intended, I'm fine with it, but it would be nice if Master Skill "Bear Carnival" wasn't tied to it, so that Grizzly mains can use it as an option. Again if this is intended, then whatever.

 

Feedback TypeStats

Stat: Vitality

Feedback: Currently, 1 Vit gives 2 Defense for BM. At master level 20, I have 66% def in human/bear/tiger form and 75% def in grizzly form. This is without insane runes/seeds, and before VIP. I feel that because beastmasters already have the highest HP, we don't need to hit the defence cap too (which by the way is never discussed, is it still 75%?). I know that warriors are also capable of achieving 75% def easily with defender. Defence should be the niche role of knights, and so I feel that if we are able to match it in any way, you're just driving away the knight community. I might give the suggestion of changing it to 1 vit = 1 def, or having the 1 vit = 2 def apply only in Grizzly form, but I'm not entirely sure that will solve any problems. 

 

As much as I love being nearly invincible, the truth of the matter is that defense stat is unbalanced. This could be an issue of the game itself, where monsters are simply too weak, but it's an issue I'd like to see discussed for the long term. Frankly, being invincible breeds ignorance and laziness and I sometimes feel ashamed. I would rather be balanced than overpowered (despite knowing how weak we were pre-AOV). 

TL;DR: Our defense is too high in human and bear forms (and maybe even grizzly). We are taking away a niche role that I feel is better suited for knights. Knights should have the highest defense, beastmasters can keep the highest HP.
 

Feedback TypeStats

Stat: HP

Feedback: This is the one thing I care about. Ask any of my guildies; I've become obsessed. Having the niche of highest HP is perfectly acceptable for Beastmasters and I would rather that no one touches the hp as it is. Don't even consider changing HP without thinking carefully about defence first. If you are going to change tanking classes in any way, leave beastmasters as masters of hp control. 

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.not being able to use ymir form i'm fine with but id like to be able to use bear carnival. i dont think the cap is 75% i have 75.02% in grizzly form but thats including vip etc


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#4 Tiduspeco

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:22 PM

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Stats

Skill (If Applicable): VIT

Feedback: The bonus of +2 defense per vit makes Beastmasters both the highest defense and highest HP class in the game atm. Their VIT bonus should be +2 HP per VIT instead. So they would get 17 HP where as other classes would get 15 HP.


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#5 Arbalist

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:47 PM

@scribbles92: Right, I should have been specific. Currently the caps are unknown, but if I recall correctly, the stat screen will show your stats rolling over any caps that are in place. I only had a chance to test this with my wizard during the first week of AOV, achieving over 100% cast speed, which is capped at 80%. I recall that warriors can achieve parry that is greater than 70% even though the cap is/was known to be at 70%. I could be wrong, and I don't mind being wrong as long as the developers are more transparent about the actual caps. EDIT: Can't reach 70% cap with new parry formula. 

@Tiduspeco: I would gladly trade extra defence for extra hp <3. Extra fluffiness ftw.


Edited by Arbalist, 21 February 2014 - 07:35 PM.

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#6 ohWarpPortal

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

Character: Nekouma

Feedback Type: Grizzly form

Skill (If Applicable): Grizzly form or Grizzly Stance

Feedback: make Grizzly form transparent so can see own both bear and human form.

most player prefer their character to be seen.

Ymir Child : Gaia too can be use in this new Grizzly form.

Its like the Guardians summon transparent can be see through at lower level.

It would be better to call it bear Stance or Grizzly Stance.


Edited by ohWarpPortal, 03 March 2014 - 07:14 AM.

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#7 Scribble92

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:50 AM

Character: Scribble92

Feedback Type: skill

Skill: Frenzy/ Fury strike

Feedback: When frenzy is used no bonus beast power is gained when using fury strike


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#8 Herbst

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:33 AM

Don't change the stats, leave the defense as it is also the HP. If you're training a beastmaster, why the hell would you want them to be weaker?
Dear Ragnarok, beastmaster's are awesome, please change NOTHING about the stats!
Some things should be left for the players to work on it, to challange even the player so in the end they'll be able to help the weak. And the stats of Warriors and Knights are a whole other topic, beneath those classes. What the hell's wrong with BM's being the strongest viewing from the point of defense and HP ??
LET THE BM be, well I would appreciate the problem with the Ymir's heart...


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#9 Arbalist

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:42 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone of us are saying "nerf bm" as a magic antidote to fix the game. I'm saying that we are having an unnecessary advantage in the game as it is. The priority is to fix the rest of the game, and then take a look at balancing BMs relative to other class and monsters. When we have both the highest HP and the highest DEF, where does the knight stand when they have lower (or the same) DEF and HP? Lowering stats is not the only way to get past this of course, the developers can always increase the stats of every other class to achieve balance. However, because of the diminishing returns nature of the current defense formula, lowering defenses slightly gives a much more distinguishable effect than increasing the DEF dramatically of another class. I fully support increasing DEF of the knight class, but we need to keep in mind everything needs to happen relative to other classes, not randomly boosting/nerfing individual classes so that they become the flavour of the month.

For long term balance, we don't need to be invincible. We can be hard to take down, but not invincible. Every class should have equitable opportunities to excel in their own regards.  In the long term, I hope to have a challenge in the game. Maybe that's just me, you don't have to agree with me. Changing the BM is probably one of the last things we need for re-balancing and it is definitely not a top priority.

@Njoror: Since these threads are for feedback, perhaps a new category to add would be a "Priority Level", in which case, most of these changes for BMs are pretty low priority relative to other classes. My feedback here is mostly for the long term.


Edited by Arbalist, 22 February 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#10 Tiduspeco

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone of us are saying "nerf bm" as a magic antidote to fix the game. I'm saying that we are having an unnecessary advantage in the game as it is. The priority is to fix the rest of the game, and then take a look at balancing BMs relative to other class and monsters. When we have both the highest HP and the highest DEF, where does the knight stand when they have lower (or the same) DEF and HP? Lowering stats is not the only way to get past this of course, the developers can always increase the stats of every other class to achieve balance. However, because of the diminishing returns nature of the current defense formula, lowering defenses slightly gives a much more distinguishable effect than increasing the DEF dramatically of another class. I fully support increasing DEF of the knight class, but we need to keep in mind everything needs to happen relative to other classes, not randomly boosting/nerfing individual classes so that they become the flavour of the month.

For long term balance, we don't need to be invincible. We can be hard to take down, but not invincible. Every class should have equitable opportunities to excel in their own regards.  In the long term, I hope to have a challenge in the game. Maybe that's just me, you don't have to agree with me. Changing the BM is probably one of the last things we need for re-balancing and it is definitely not a top priority.

@Njoror: Since these threads are for feedback, perhaps a new category to add would be a "Priority Level", in which case, most of these changes for BMs are pretty low priority relative to other classes. My feedback here is mostly for the long term.

Defence isn't even close to Knight's. My defense with Osiris gear is around 7500. BM with Osiris will have close to 10,000


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#11 Chocs

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:44 PM

 BM with Osiris will have close to 10,000

With or without Grizzly form?  :p_swt:


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#12 Arbalist

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:56 PM

With or without Grizzly form?  :p_swt:

With Grizzly. With my current gear I have 6820 def (67.26%) in Human/Bear/Tiger, and 10230 def (75.50%) with Grizzly.


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#13 Verinne

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Character: Vinzy

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Tiger Form

Feedback:

 

Make all Beast form Offensive Skills available to Tiger Form to make it more useful. 

 

 

Don't change the stats, leave the defense as it is also the HP. If you're training a beastmaster, why the hell would you want them to be weaker?
Dear Ragnarok, beastmaster's are awesome, please change NOTHING about the stats!
Some things should be left for the players to work on it, to challange even the player so in the end they'll be able to help the weak. And the stats of Warriors and Knights are a whole other topic, beneath those classes. What the hell's wrong with BM's being the strongest viewing from the point of defense and HP ??
LET THE BM be, well I would appreciate the problem with the Ymir's heart...

 

+1 to this. BM Gameplay as of now doesn't need some rework compared to other classes.

 

Hello, everyone.

 

We want to gather feedback on each class to better balancing.

 

This thread will be about the Beastmaster class. If you've played Beastmaster and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.

 

 

 

No offense to some previous posts but, I hope Njoror's post is clear. Made parts in bold and keywords in red so its easy to understand. Been reading all class feedbacks and only seeing post like "buff up my class and nerf the others!". I can understand we all want to buff up/fix our classes, for these threads are made for that but bashing(asking for nerfs) on other classes "just to make your class more superior" isn't right.

 

 


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#14 Arbalist

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:30 PM

No offense to some previous posts but, I hope Njoror's post is clear. Made parts in bold and keywords in red so its easy to understand. Been reading all class feedbacks and only seeing post like "buff up my class and nerf the others!". I can understand we all want to buff up/fix our classes, for these threads are made for that but bashing(asking for nerfs) on other classes "just to make your class more superior" isn't right.

 

 

I hope this isn't referring the the BM thread, but since this is the only one I see you posting this in, I'd want to address it so there isn't any confusion.  The amount of QQ in this thread has been very low. We've got:

-improve skill access posts (Ymir Form/Bear Carnival/Tiger Form)

-a visual suggestion post (Grizzly Form)

-a fix skill with intended effect post (Frenzy/Fury Strike), and

-a discussion about whether we need the extra defense when we already have high HP.

 

I don't think we've been saying "buff up my class and nerf the others!" as you put it, in fact, we've suggested a boost the knight class. If perhaps you think lowering the BM defense is a threat to "improvement", I'd argue that balancing the stat is an improvement as it leads to more equity across all classes.

 

On the side, I like talking about bears. Half a year ago, the BM thread would've been empty. I'm more than happy to engage in constructive debate.


Edited by Arbalist, 23 February 2014 - 10:37 PM.

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#15 Tiduspeco

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:51 PM

I don't think we've been saying "buff up my class and nerf the others!" as you put it, in fact, we've suggested a boost the knight class.

Personally, I think it'd be better for all of us if Knight stayed similar to how it is and other classes were brought down to Knight's level. If we just keep buffing classes, we'll be soloing the next raid. As far as difficulty goes, I think all classes, even Knight are too strong atm. Remember pre-AoV when you could solo mob like 20-30 monsters your level and not die? Oh wait, it was more like, mob 10 monsters, spam pots, barely survive, sit and heal xD


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#16 xLuc

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:19 PM

Don't change the stats, leave the defense as it is also the HP. If you're training a beastmaster, why the hell would you want them to be weaker?
Dear Ragnarok, beastmaster's are awesome, please change NOTHING about the stats!
Some things should be left for the players to work on it, to challange even the player so in the end they'll be able to help the weak. And the stats of Warriors and Knights are a whole other topic, beneath those classes. What the hell's wrong with BM's being the strongest viewing from the point of defense and HP ??
LET THE BM be, well I would appreciate the problem with the Ymir's heart...

 

This mentality is the illness of the game. :(

 

Personally, I think it'd be better for all of us if Knight stayed similar to how it is and other classes were brought down to Knight's level. If we just keep buffing classes, we'll be soloing the next raid. As far as difficulty goes, I think all classes, even Knight are too strong atm. Remember pre-AoV when you could solo mob like 20-30 monsters your level and not die? Oh wait, it was more like, mob 10 monsters, spam pots, barely survive, sit and heal xD

 

Yep, would be nice if them tanks were brought to a similar level as knights. Because, cmon, what are warriors and beastmasters as of now if not DPS in a tank's skin?


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#17 Tiduspeco

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

Yep, would be nice if them tanks were brought to a similar level as knights. Because, cmon, what are warriors and beastmasters as of now if not DPS in a tank's skin?

Don't forget to add Monk to that. Monk dps is really high too.


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#18 Arbalist

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:38 PM

Personally, I think it'd be better for all of us if Knight stayed similar to how it is and other classes were brought down to Knight's level. If we just keep buffing classes, we'll be soloing the next raid. As far as difficulty goes, I think all classes, even Knight are too strong atm. Remember pre-AoV when you could solo mob like 20-30 monsters your level and not die? Oh wait, it was more like, mob 10 monsters, spam pots, barely survive, sit and heal xD

 

I went under the assumption that all content would be made more stronger in balancing, but I definitely won't mind going the other way and being brought down. I just have a personal (unhealthy) HP obsession going on right now :)

Verge of death feeling was the best, bring that back, I like danger.


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#19 Verinne

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:40 PM

I don't think we've been saying "buff up my class and nerf the others!" as you put it, in fact, we've suggested a boost the knight class. If perhaps you think lowering the BM defense is a threat to "improvement", I'd argue that balancing the stat is an improvement as it leads to more equity across all classes.

 

On the side, I like talking about bears. Half a year ago, the BM thread would've been empty. I'm more than happy to engage in constructive debate.

 

I'm saying this in general not just for BM thread as I'm seeing some bashing on other threads. Just included it on my post about tiger form. 

 

 

Personally, I think it'd be better for all of us if Knight stayed similar to how it is and other classes were brought down to Knight's level. If we just keep buffing classes, we'll be soloing the next raid. As far as difficulty goes, I think all classes, even Knight are too strong atm. Remember pre-AoV when you could solo mob like 20-30 monsters your level and not die? Oh wait, it was more like, mob 10 monsters, spam pots, barely survive, sit and heal xD

 

This mentality is the illness of the game. :(

 

 

Yep, would be nice if them tanks were brought to a similar level as knights. Because, cmon, what are warriors and beastmasters as of now if not DPS in a tank's skin?

 

 

Don't forget to add Monk to that. Monk dps is really high too.

 

This is what I was talking about, why bashing on other classes just because your class is feeling inferior about them? Why not focus on improving yours and let those who played the class suggest improvements on their own classes. As for your posts are mainly from Knight's PoV on BMs. 
 
I'm looking for more inputs from well-knowned BMs
 
 
p.s. I got both Knight and BM but I'm not q.q ing about it.
 

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#20 Chocs

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:37 AM

Feel like the thread is going to derail soon.

Spoiler


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#21 Arbalist

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:10 AM

Then to bring this back on topic (slightly) and lighten the mood, here are random suggestions for visual improvements:

 

Character: Arbalist

Feedback TypeSuggestion

Feedback: Implement Grizzly & Tiger form customization options. Since Grizzlies/Tigers do not get to show off their sexy costumes, maybe we can be unique in our own way. I was thinking perhaps NPC purchased/quest obtained offhand items, that are purely cosmetic and only appears in animal forms. These can then range anywhere from a top hat, to a bamboo stick, to changing the skin to look like a panda. Yeah.
Priority: Low. Very, very low.

Fun suggestions are suggestions nonetheless.


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#22 Scribble92

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:23 AM

Then to bring this back on topic (slightly) and lighten the mood, here are random suggestions for visual improvements:

 

Character: Arbalist

Feedback TypeSuggestion

Feedback: Implement Grizzly & Tiger form customization options. Since Grizzlies/Tigers do not get to show off their sexy costumes, maybe we can be unique in our own way. I was thinking perhaps NPC purchased/quest obtained offhand items, that are purely cosmetic and only appears in animal forms. These can then range anywhere from a top hat, to a bamboo stick, to changing the skin to look like a panda. Yeah.
Priority: Low. Very, very low.

Fun suggestions are suggestions nonetheless.

haha i like the idea of running around in a top hat


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#23 Verinne

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:25 AM

Feel like the thread is going to derail soon.

Spoiler

 

from people coming from Knight's PoV seeing Beastmasters or other classes, I don't think you'll see whats wrong. Instead of just pushing some good feedback on Knights for them to excel better like other classes, some people aren't contented and want to degrade or nerf the others. Crab Mentality as they say.  

 

If you have played the class (in this case, Beastmaster) and got something in mind to make improvements/fix/rebalancing then I would gladly hear and respect your opinion. (like what Njoror said on the top)

 

As for me I'm fine at what BMs gameplay as of now. But if anything else would come in mind, I would likely suggest them but not to compare to other classes and ask for nerfing lol.


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#24 922130506224621990

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:23 AM

First off Tiduscrub go cry in the knight forum!! bm's have been gimps up till now... and all the sudden your no longer the best tank in the game  :sob:

Character: Skyfoo

Feedback Type: Skill Stats Suggestion

Skill: Tiger Form and Frenzy(fairly useless) maybe give tiger stealth or something worthwhile or get rid of them both i dunno... or since you guys like to copy WoW tiger could be the dps form and frenzy could be a atk speed skill...

 

Cruel Bite + Rage Smash + Fury Strike: requiring 10 skill points for all 3 forces a BM to choose between a tank build, dps or tank/dps and forces sacrifices which in most cases is frenzy + beast charge + wild impact which are pretty awesome stuns and useful in pvp... so you also have to decide now if you wanna go PvE or PVP spec which unless your bringing back unlimited skill resets this sucks! basically to many skills and to few points!!

 

Cruel Bite has made Survival(useless) healing yourself for 30% each hit is retarded op and as people have said invincible now... this also makes healers useless they might as well all go dps spec... lower survival back to 5pts instead of 10 pls! and well cruel bite is op  :p_love:

 

Wild Crush: well its a nice improvement but all dots and the dmg they do are far from balanced

 

Ymir Child + Carnival: cant use in grizzly... i wouldn't mind being a big green bear with leaves for fur lol

 

STATS: as it is right now with full buffs including vvip and prontera10%buff i hit over 60khps and almost 80% def..... i would say something about these stats but apparently with the intro of the honing systems you guys feel we need a lot more stats?!?!? ive heard comments that the next dungeon will be so hard we need insane stats :hmm:  somehow im sure it will be filled with bugs and ez to complete! so ya im at a loss for words i have no clue what you guys are thinking with these stats :p_conf:

Feedback: I like the idea of having some costumes show on the bear, maybe some of the dungeon armor even or something customizable other then the same o same o black bear!


Edited by 922130506224621990, 24 February 2014 - 08:35 AM.

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#25 Herbst

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:33 PM

 

I'm saying this in general not just for BM thread as I'm seeing some bashing on other threads. Just included it on my post about tiger form. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I was talking about, why bashing on other classes just because your class is feeling inferior about them? Why not focus on improving yours and let those who played the class suggest improvements on their own classes. As for your posts are mainly from Knight's PoV on BMs. 
 
I'm looking for more inputs from well-knowned BMs
 
 
p.s. I got both Knight and BM but I'm not q.q ing about it.
 

 

You, my good sir, are actually one of the rare smart people around here.


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