Discussion: Priest

I would drop gloria since we dont spam Heal or HL anymore.

I would drop gloria since we dont spam Heal or HL anymore.

However, Gloria does do double damage with Lex Divina when it's available. So if you like free holy water this can make it more likely that you will get that killing blow.

rest assure, even without archangel our skill bar will still be filled with just our skills XD
 

thanks so much for the help!  yeah i kinda love the idea of having lv10 HH - 5 people at once, dude, who doesnt want that? but if it isnt necessary i might consider letting it go (let it go~ let it go~).
 
what about gloria, is 10% (lv3) enough? pre-aov, gloria at lv1 with only 5% chance feels like 10% sometimes and 15% (lv3) was like 30%. i'm short on points and would like to get recovery if possible.
 
build: current plan

 

sacrificed ME and assumptio to get HH to lv10. maybe i should ditch blessings and get the rest i want? lol (wow, such priest you are)

Gloria is not that useful for now, just max back ME... No need to confused with my build lol. I already tell what skills can be dumped to max high heal levels. I simply take more DPS skills since I just feel 50k high heal is just too much (only beastmaster I've seen in iRO2 with that HP AFAIK)

i want gloria because of the lex divina effect like the numbered dude said. i think i'll stick with lv10 HH cause i want the 5 people heal. i want a lot of things but just can't have 'em all. pfftt...

regarding ME, do we mob a lot? cause i dont unless i am over geared or when i wanna cast oratio to the bunch of 'em at once.

OK let me lay down the funky fresh beats that is the Doppio Philosphy. Take a seat and listen to the beat as I heat up my skill suggestion.

Skill (If Applicable): Suffragim

Feedback: Cause Cast Speed/Haste isn't really needed on Priests, make it a (scaled) buff for vigor.

Skill: Angelus

Feedback: have a (possible aspersio effect) critical defense on it. AKA, using angelus will block critical hits for 10 seconds

Skill: Recovery

Feedback: Make it heal more than just snare, slow and freeze. For a skill that says heals every abnormal status, it sure is very specific on the definition of abnormal.

Skill: Ray of Genesis

Feedback: Revert this skill to pre AoV, cast time and everything. AoV, there isn't a point to use this skill with Aspersio, and giving Aspersio more desirable options will lead people to use something other than Judex with it.

My suggestions on the dot debate are gonna take a back seat until another time

Edited by Sestuplo, 22 March 2014 - 11:24 AM.

Skill (If Applicable): Suffragim

Feedback: Cause Cast Speed/Haste isn't really needed on Priests, make it a (scaled) buff for vigor.

 

Skill: Angelus

Feedback: have a (possible aspersio effect) critical defense on it. AKA, using angelus will block critical hits for 10 seconds

 

Skill: Recovery

Feedback: Make it heal more than just snare, slow and freeze. For a skill that says heals every abnormal status, it sure is very specific on the definition of abnormal.

+1

Yes. Yes!! Yes!!! These are changes that I imagine both "play to win" and free to play Priests can agree on. They are simple changes that will complement builds and not destroy anyone's play style.

I think it is important to keep in mind that there are two player bases that need to be considered. For example, the 30 second Judex cool down certainly balances the maxed-out "p2w" priest in PvP, but renders the skill useless for the "don't-look-at-my-gear" free to play priests that use Judex for anything else.

As a free to play hybrid priest, sometimes Judex misses all of its attacks (losing an Aspersio if you were looking for a stun). Waiting another 30 seconds or sacrificing a Gloria that could be used to Lex Divina more holy water puts Judex into the "Why should I even bother?" skill category for the free to play player base.

Before any dramatic changes are made to the still tree, I think the Hit/Dodge issue needs to be addressed to ensure we aren't overcompensating, or undercompensating, any balance issues. Until then, small changes that enhance what a skill was intended to do seems like the way to go.

However, I am still all ears for Aspersio-Gloria-Judex summoning unicorns.

Edited by ChocoVivi, 23 March 2014 - 08:02 PM.

Skill: Recovery

Feedback: Make it heal more than just snare, slow and freeze. For a skill that says heals every abnormal status, it sure is very specific on the definition of abnormal.

Character: mangopuddin

Feedback Type: Adding onto Dopp's idea.

Skill: Recovery

Feedback: Make Recovery and a Sorcerer's Cleanse a skill you can use while you are moving. There are many times during raids/PvP that when you get snared/frozen while moving, your character is still technically stuck in a running animation thus you can't cast recovery on yourself. I'm sure other Priests and Sorcs have experienced this. T_T

Edited by kimsera, 23 March 2014 - 08:21 PM.

Character: HatsuneMiku39
Feedback Type: Skills
Skill (If Applicable): All heal skills
Feedback: Bring back casting time.  

Character: Doppio

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill: Meditatio

Feedback: Pre AoV, Meditatio was a REALLY poorly worded skill. Every hit rate percentage above 95% converted into x% extra healing potency on crit. AoV, because they got rid of the Hit Percentage, Meditatio got reworked into giving x% of crit power per single point of hit.

This is why Priests are getting 40k heals. This is why Coluceo and Sanctuary and every other heal skill is pointless.

We need to scale it back a bit. There are two options, first is the obvious reduce the percentage of the potency, which won't work very well because it's still going to be powerful. The second is rework the skill so it gives the same amount of crit power per 2 or 5 hit, which will be a harder nerf but it's needed because 25k crit heals is kind of like building a sandcastle with an excavation team.

Skill: Magnus Exorcismus

Feedback: This skill needs to have worse scaling, because at 3/3 it's still better than HL 10/10

Skill: The maginificent 3 (DoTs)

Feedback: There's more than one way to skin a cat. You can balance the DoTs by reducing/increasing the time the DoTs last by their power.

I am a new player and i am thinking what is the riht build for Full support one? And the right job class too, i am thinking artisan because of the armors but i am also thinking about a support freak type of priest like choosing chef so that i can add more stats because of the buffs and can also help me heal myself in order to focus on supporting others instead and alchemist because i read about a skill of throw potion and it can heal up to 2,700 instantly but i dont if its true but it would be great and i think it can cause me a bit of sp too, Can anyone help me please? Thanks GUYS

Hi! I'm a `relatively` new player too, main-ing a Priest.

I also went Alchemist for the exact same reason, lol. However, note this, when you hit ML1, one tick of your heal over time skill, Renovatio, would be at least 2k on minimum gear. Of course I didn't know that as an Acolyte.

The Potion Spray / Pitchers are way out of our reach when it's actually significant. You won't get the materials and recipe for it until high level, and by then it's obsolete. The things actually drop in high level dungeons and no one ever picks them up. :\

In that regard, I've concluded that at the moment, a priest's job isn't very relevant unless you're going hardcore solo on this game and ignoring everyone forever. I've made a few artisan and blacksmith friends who I can approach for crafting. Besides, the Master level gears' recipes are monster drops anyway, so you probably won't have them to begin with. As for Alchemist/Chef, I haven't made a potion since I hit combat and job 50. XD

One thing to note is that the Starter Package series contains a free Guardian Rune, which lets you change your job while keeping the job level. With this regard, if you're rushing levels, I'd recommend the fastest: Artisan, then when you know more about the game, switch to a different one. That's what I'm doing, but I didn't get to be an Artisan, but an Alchemist. I still haven't found a need to change jobs though, and I still have my free guardian rune.

Character:HadenX
Feedback Type: skill
Skill (If Applicable): all heals
Feedback: need to either nerf or rework heals so people will have more build variety like (DPS/hybrid/FS) and thats for all classes.

Character:HadenX
Feedback Type: skill
Skill (If Applicable): all heals
Feedback: need to either nerf or rework heals so people will have more build variety like (DPS/hybrid/FS) and thats for all classes.

Neither DPS nor FS nor Hybrid is a build variety. They are the unspoken role in party that you took on after perceiving the atmosphere around your party and taking  that into account unless your party members requested up front. Things can get ugly if the game force them onto a certain role instead of trust their judgement on using the appropriate role at that very moment.  

^ That is, at the current state of the game where stats (and sometimes even skill builds) are near irrelevant. In a game, most people expect a tank and a DPS's stat and skill builds to be very, very different, like focusing on different skill trees and perhaps one going full INT and one going full VIT. It's unsettling that the game is like this, but I don't hate it that much either; more utility for us. 

In any regard, I believe the Priest's heals' mechanics are balanced enough. The thing I'd really want to change up if it were up to me was the values being healed, which derives from a very high matk. Too much rescaling in the game would be necessary tho, so it'll probably take a long time to fix.

rerp,

The game used to assign those roles to every class of its. Back then, adapting to here after coming from other MMO required less research since everything was generic. That were how things used to run until Advent of Valkyrie changed it all and created a new generation of player: AoV-player. Although I don't mind going back to the old days, since I'm from that period, I don't think I can speak for all AoV-players. Plus, this game is a living proof that a drastic turn around doesn't always returns good results. All there to add more con than pro in my perspective toward his suggestion. 

Priest does healing too much. The result is more visible the better your gears goes and even more laughable after refinement. But it's never meant to be that much Priest running around with max refinement equipments in the first place.

Right???

I did a lot of research myself, but I usually do that with anything I play. I run into parties where I listen to convos and they're like WHOA I JUST HEARD THAT I SHOULD BE ROLLING FULL INT (Random warrior). Thankfully, people are well aware of our DPS capabilities so I don't have any problems presenting myself to a party that already has a healer, then take over as healer when the old one leaves. 

Honestly speaking, I don't dislike the mechanics we currently have for stats, and it's a good thing you can't feel the effects before turning ML 1. It's actually nice that the game isn't very generic. I understand how that feels for old players tho, when everything suddenly changes with a patch. But I've sorta been there [RO1 Renewal]. 

In my standpoint, I don't think they need to overhaul too many things. A bit of balancing would suffice. The stuff is actually quite exciting. There isn't a class I wouldn't like to play, in this case.

being jack of all trade is bad for a class

Right???

 

I did a lot of research myself, but I usually do that with anything I play. I run into parties where I listen to convos and they're like WHOA I JUST HEARD THAT I SHOULD BE ROLLING FULL INT (Random warrior). Thankfully, people are well aware of our DPS capabilities so I don't have any problems presenting myself to a party that already has a healer, then take over as healer when the old one leaves. 

 

Honestly speaking, I don't dislike the mechanics we currently have for stats, and it's a good thing you can't feel the effects before turning ML 1. It's actually nice that the game isn't very generic. I understand how that feels for old players tho, when everything suddenly changes with a patch. But I've sorta been there [RO1 Renewal]. 

 

In my standpoint, I don't think they need to overhaul too many things. A bit of balancing would suffice. The stuff is actually quite exciting. There isn't a class I wouldn't like to play, in this case.

How refreshing!

This forum needs you.

You need to post more often. 

being jack of all trade is bad for a class

Bad for the class. Not completely bad for some users of the class.

How refreshing!

This forum needs you.

You need to post more often. 

 

Not sure if you may be sarcastic, but thanks! :3

being jack of all trade is bad for a class

Actually there isn't anything bad about being a jack of all trades (and a master of none), what's not so good is you master everything. 

Not sure if you may be sarcastic, but thanks! :3

It wasn't meant to sound like sarcasm. I was supposed to quote only the last paragraph but I forgot. It's been a while since the last time I'd read a genuine positive opinion about the game in this forum and I really do found it refreshing.  

Sorry, but I totally disagree with you.

For me, RO2 is a role-playing game and well-defined roles can make up for interesting group content.

If every player would be like a priest right now - being able to fully heal themself every few seconds and also being able to dish out a lot of damage - classes would be redundant, players easily replacable and the game quite lame.

The typical roles are:

A defender a.k.a. tank might be good at soaking damage, but can't deal that much in return. 'Striker' class are the opposite and more like glass-cannons, dealing massive damage, but being very vulnerable in return. Healers (excluding other support classes) neither deal much damage, nor soak much damage, but keep others alive.

Sometimes there are other roles or sub-classes as well: 'Leaders' can increase the DPS output by buffing the whole party and eliminating debuffs, whereas 'Controllers' do the inverse thing on enemies -placing debuffs on them and removing buffs.

But not only roleplaying games know this concept. In fact most games define groups or classes that aren't fully autonomic, but have well-defined weaknesses. Most commonly, this is done by a randomly allocation / distribution. And the idea behind it to 'enforce' interactions.

F.e. in Settlers of Catan, your 'role' is defined by the surrounding resources / hexagons. You can either mimic a shepard or a lumberjack. Most ego-shooters, especially group-based shooters define current role by your weapon. That defines whether you can hit often or hit hard.

Normally, the only real issue then is how easy it is to switch the role and how often you can do this. In case of roleplaying games, the answer would be 'rarely', because you could always have the option to start a completely different character (or reskill your character) and you can freely choose the level of your dedication towards a given role.

Neither DPS nor FS nor Hybrid is a build variety. They are the unspoken role in party that you took on after perceiving the atmosphere around your party and taking  that into account unless your party members requested up front. Things can get ugly if the game force them onto a certain role instead of trust their judgement on using the appropriate role at that very moment.  

Being able to switch the role "at that very moment" is more or less equal of having no (specific) role at all, especially if you expect other players to be able to do the same. Likewise, a product has no defined color, if it can change it freely.

That's why some players stated that there are only Hybrid priests right now. But that's only half the truth. 'Hybrid' usually also implied that you're worse at both DPS or FS... but that's not the case anymore.

In any regard, I believe the Priest's heals' mechanics are balanced enough. The thing I'd really want to change up if it were up to me was the values being healed, which derives from a very high matk. Too much rescaling in the game would be necessary tho, so it'll probably take a long time to fix.

And that's finally the point where i disagree the most. Neither a 14k Cure, nor a 6k Renovatio is anything close to being "balanced" and I am skipping any further comments about Highness Heal here.

Because Heals, DoTs, etc. ignore armor completely, the not just ignore a major part of the game, they also create a major inbalance. F.e. as soon as I can't one-shot a Priest or Soulmaker, they're virtually invulnerable. Given a defense rate of 75%, it would either take a skill that deals at least 880% damage (in case of a Renovatio) every other second or even 2016% (in case of a Cure) to make sure that the damage isn't outhealed within a moment.

This major inbalance has even led to even more stupid things:

Since developers now balance the game based on the possible healing amount, bosses have the same issue as mentioned above... and they now deal that much damage to outdo the heals... leading to a lot of one-shots of players. a hard p2w barrier and a lot of frustrated players.

So if we would "overhaul" the healing system and more or less restore the original system (by lowering the defense rate down to 20% and the damage accordingly), the normal 250% attack would be already enough to surpass the healing amount of a Renovatio (220%).

Then of course, skills like Coloseo Heal would make sense again and bosses would have to deal less damage as well, because - as I've said above - their damage output is scaled on the healing capabilities.

You remind me of the way I used to think about my main. I was told that I'm the AoE specialist and my responsibility in party is to sweep the adds because that was my role. I used to be so proud of that until I saw a Mermaid clears all the adds before I could finish casting my AoE for the third times. That Mermaid came from a Priest.

And also the time when Executer Meister was such a pain between me and Iron Cane that I don't think I can make it without a healer in a party until a Wizard shows how wrong I was. The party made it through with that Wizard being the only healer with his Elder. 

I think you already know where I'm heading with this and yes. That is why I think enforce Priest or other class into a specific role via reworking their skills was a bad idea, because it only 

scratches the surface not the core. As long as pet system exists there will  always be an option to go Hybrid for any class. 

Being able to switch the role "at that very moment" is more or less equal of having no (specific) role at all, especially if you expect other players to be able to do the same. Likewise, a product has no defined color, if it can change it freely.

 

That's why some players stated that there are only Hybrid priests right now. But that's only half the truth. 'Hybrid' usually also implied that you're worse at both DPS or FS... but that's not the case anymore.

It's safe to say that no Priest want to see these kind of requirements in the party chat or menu: LF FS Priest with lvl4 DOT pet or LF DPS Priest with healing pet. 

Sure, Priest don't need pets or pugs. They can form a dedicated party with other distinct role players and stick to doing one single role in that party because that the point of playing a MMORPG. 

But is the game currently disallowed that? 

..…....

Will it scares potential players away when the game made every class not overly dependent on each others? 

.........

Sorcerer has been doing Hybrid since day one. How many Sorcerer in the game that weren't Hybrid (FS+DPS) ?

........

Exactly. 

So where is this urgent to call out Priest for doing Hybrid coming from? Let's be honest here. 

................

PVP? 

If that the case, well, you just confirm what I'd always thought about ever since last Christmas. 

Grind, PVP, Hybrid (Grind+PVP) are the real builds. 

So it wasn't because of no clear distinction between FS and DPS for Priest here. It was no clear distinction between Grind and PVP. Every Priest in the game was indeed Hybrid, not FS+DPS, but Grind+PVP. With or without the 20 skill points. 

In other words: Priest can conceal their squish defense with continuos stun, deal damages as good as other DPS class by name, and heal themselves. All of that with just 49 points. You know this better than I do. 

I'm not going to defend how Priest were in PVP. They clearly got the upper hands especially against squish class. I just don't see the point of forcing them into FS or DPS when they aren't the only class that did Hybrid (FS+DPS) in the game PVE wise. 

Sorry, but I totally disagree with you.

 

For me, RO2 is a role-playing game and well-defined roles can make up for interesting group content.

 

If every player would be like a priest right now - being able to fully heal themself every few seconds and also being able to dish out a lot of damage - classes would be redundant, players easily replacable and the game quite lame.

 

The typical roles are:

A defender a.k.a. tank might be good at soaking damage, but can't deal that much in return. 'Striker' class are the opposite and more like glass-cannons, dealing massive damage, but being very vulnerable in return. Healers (excluding other support classes) neither deal much damage, nor soak much damage, but keep others alive.

Sometimes there are other roles or sub-classes as well: 'Leaders' can increase the DPS output by buffing the whole party and eliminating debuffs, whereas 'Controllers' do the inverse thing on enemies -placing debuffs on them and removing buffs.

 

But not only roleplaying games know this concept. In fact most games define groups or classes that aren't fully autonomic, but have well-defined weaknesses. Most commonly, this is done by a randomly allocation / distribution. And the idea behind it to 'enforce' interactions.

 

F.e. in Settlers of Catan, your 'role' is defined by the surrounding resources / hexagons. You can either mimic a shepard or a lumberjack. Most ego-shooters, especially group-based shooters define current role by your weapon. That defines whether you can hit often or hit hard.

 

Normally, the only real issue then is how easy it is to switch the role and how often you can do this. In case of roleplaying games, the answer would be 'rarely', because you could always have the option to start a completely different character (or reskill your character) and you can freely choose the level of your dedication towards a given role.

 

 

Being able to switch the role "at that very moment" is more or less equal of having no (specific) role at all, especially if you expect other players to be able to do the same. Likewise, a product has no defined color, if it can change it freely.

 

That's why some players stated that there are only Hybrid priests right now. But that's only half the truth. 'Hybrid' usually also implied that you're worse at both DPS or FS... but that's not the case anymore.

 

 

 

And that's finally the point where i disagree the most. Neither a 14k Cure, nor a 6k Renovatio is anything close to being "balanced" and I am skipping any further comments about Highness Heal here.

 

Because Heals, DoTs, etc. ignore armor completely, the not just ignore a major part of the game, they also create a major inbalance. F.e. as soon as I can't one-shot a Priest or Soulmaker, they're virtually invulnerable. Given a defense rate of 75%, it would either take a skill that deals at least 880% damage (in case of a Renovatio) every other second or even 2016% (in case of a Cure) to make sure that the damage isn't outhealed within a moment.

 

This major inbalance has even led to even more stupid things:

Since developers now balance the game based on the possible healing amount, bosses have the same issue as mentioned above... and they now deal that much damage to outdo the heals... leading to a lot of one-shots of players. a hard p2w barrier and a lot of frustrated players.

 

So if we would "overhaul" the healing system and more or less restore the original system (by lowering the defense rate down to 20% and the damage accordingly), the normal 250% attack would be already enough to surpass the healing amount of a Renovatio (220%).

 

Then of course, skills like Coloseo Heal would make sense again and bosses would have to deal less damage as well, because - as I've said above - their damage output is scaled on the healing capabilities.

I'm sorry if I don't completely understand where you're coming from, but when I read your arguments below the quote from me, I actually thought of it was a defense to my statement rather than a disagreement. You even emphasized the point about heal values being too high and there is a definitely need for rescaling. It's all about the healing being done that makes the heal classes so OP, because the formula can't be bothered for a rework at the moment, wherein the damage and heal skills derive from the same stat; therefore, in the typical flow of increasing heal power, you also increase damage. It just happened that the heals are too damn high, one thing I've also realized since level 50 when I was advised to seek a Master Soulmaker for a h4x0rz Cure buff. In a different RPG since we're making references anyway, the potential of all-out DPS and all-out Support or all-out Tank can all be available to a single class; but constraints are in place to prevent you from doing so. I see that it's currently badly implemented with RO2 Priests. What we need is something like what Pre-AoV Sorcerers needed to consider before, build-wise.

In PVE, everything actually blends fine even though we all know they fixed that the wrong way; hence all the big numbers with the bosses. But true enough, when you confine those experiences by themselves: just that dungeon or just that boss, you'd see everything is reasonable. Given that you're all the same level and are in the appropriate level range Renovatio won't keep the party constantly alive nor will Cure be sufficient to keep the tank maxed on the boss fight. The problem just pops up when you leave the dungeon and possibly visit a different area higher or lower than your level, and you notice that the stat difference is too much. Or even worse, yeah, PVP. IMO, PVP is very easily fixed by placing caps and disabling/enabling different aspects of each class. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually came up with a PVP-exclusive patch that had something like "All heal effects from SM/Priest are reduced to 25% in PVP zones."

Regarding the ability of Priests to roll a build that CAN do everything stat-wise, it doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to do so in practice. Healing requires a hell lot of focus if you're not working with an overleveled tank and if you're in such a position, you won't usually have time throw in AoEs.  I think that the cooldowns on Aqua and Aspersio handle that well enough. That is, not considering anything else besides the skills. Pets totally throw this off.

Talking about another class; for example, the tank classes that we have that also dish out very high DPS, is also another problem with values, not mechanics per se. If you jacked down the Warrior damage by 90%, but increased threat generation by 1000%, you'd get the effect you want.

In summary of my long blocks of text, people only use their powerful heals and/or damage skills since they're available. Change anything and people will still find a way to get what they need. I've actually observed that VCRs for Priest are pushing for nerfs, and there's no problem with that.

I actually hate that the devs are trying so hard to make all classes viable for PVP against each other. In RO1, I enjoyed the competitive scene a lot, since you can see the roles very clearly and when a game ends, you can tell where they fell short. Ideally, a priest in a support build shouldn't be able to PVP by himself AT ALL, and would instead be in a party throwing heals around. 

Nerf the priest class devs/gm's, please.. this game sucks because of OP priest