Upcoming Skill Changes(Pt. 6); Soul Hunter, Defiler, and Dominator.

Terms of Service after all the nerfs it has received, is STILL easily the most powerful skill in the game considering its area control ability. This is one of the main skills that cause problems on bridges, in tunnels, and other bottlenecks of battlefields, creating complete blocks. This is a big problem to battlefield dynamics. If you want total stun on it, the 14 seconds - 10 meters - 7 targets is not legit anymore. Do you realize the full potential of Terms of Service is a 96 second area stun ?!

 

I would suggest  7 second stun - 8 meters - 6 targets. Cooldown from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Total stun.   ( Thats still a potential 42 second total stun  )

Terms of Service lasts 96 seconds now? OH BOY *violently clicks requiem.exe* HERE I CO- waiiiiiiiiit a minute, did, did you just simply multiply the duration by the number of targets to get this horrid looking number?

That doesn't make sense to me at all, the stun duration is still only fourteen seconds no matter how many targets it affects.

1 target in Terms of Service for full duration = 14 second of stun inflicted

2 targets in Terms of Service for full duration = 28 seconds of stun inflicted

3 targets in Terms of Service for full duration = 42 seconds of stun inflicted

etc

Terms of Service lasts 96 seconds now? OH BOY *violently clicks requiem.exe* HERE I CO- waiiiiiiiiit a minute, did, did you just simply multiply the duration by the number of targets to get this horrid looking number?

That doesn't make sense to me at all, the stun duration is still only fourteen seconds no matter how many targets it affects.

Fourteen second, 83% chance to stun at max level and divided into 3 or 4 second ticks in which you have a 1 to 1.5 second chance of escaping, or more depending on the level of the defi that casted and the placement of the trap.

The only way this hypothetical 96 second stun would play out is an infinite army of defi's that don't get killed in under 5 hits (which you won't find one in this game because those smart one's quit or changed gear).

Terms of Service isn't the primary suspect in the bottlenecking situation in PvP, it's the extension of AoEs in a pvp setting due to the changes to 50 DNA that is. Damaging AoEs are up always because they're at 4 seconds of cooldown usually when at 50/55 DNA. This applies to all AoE classes, but it's something that given the format of the "PvE" content of this game is necessary for weaker characters so that's a major dilemma there (unless you split the duration of skills between PvE/PvP even then it's still a problem for open world PvP).

The suggestion I made reduces both duration and cooldown in half while adding 100% stun chance. Not fair enough ? 

The suggestion I made reduces both duration and cooldown in half while adding 100% stun chance. Not fair enough ? 

Eh it's not the % chance I think that matters, considering only a few cap out at 100% right now. Off the top of my head that's scud, and any skill with % DNA on it (but who would take that when anything over 100% is bugged in this game). The problem is the tick duration since due to some faulty code I think they cancel each other out like any other stun overlapping does (even though it's from the same skill and caster).

I dont think Krux casters are that bad as is really and need no adjustments.

Most time when i see people QQ about them its cus they got little curse res ( and alot of 85+ ppl dont )

I like kaz being able to slow. in 49 and 69 its a life saver. and 90foc comies have speed buff. Also for TD bosses etc ungeared casters need t to help kite.

49 there isnt many SH anymore and they really need Bind. So to take bind off them would be a bad idea.

69 Bind also is about the only way a defi or Domi can kill a twink.

Terms of Service is fine as is i think. its obvious when they are placing it so you know to run. and Druid, Rogue, comies, warrior etc all can get out of Terms of Service. and kill the often squishy defi.

Like the idea of being able to summon more than one Illusion. But make them actually look like the player more - same tags as play over head with out "XXX Illusion".

Make pets when not in combat mode move at same speed as player. ie if player walks they walk if player runs they run. getting to mid or other side of map and finding you dont have your retards with you is grr.

like idea of pet armor. even if it just a coat and acquired via FOC... help make foc more alive OR drop from NM bosses.

Also add a weap for pets. help increase there meep damage. 

reinforce much the same as PB Armour to get stats but with one enchant slot. This give domies a HUGH bonus of being able stack multi weapon enchants on a target. (like -20%cure, -10% cure, -3% cures,)

Also reduce range pets will part from master from. might help stop domis on mounts more or make it so they have a percentage chance to run away/flee from target if master is mounted.

but ya. after playing 49 SH a bit - any removable or changes of skills would really hurt the class in 49. VT AOE would be lovely but not a biggy.

Edit -

-- New Domi Skill -- 

lvl 70

Mutant Master

Pets gain  percentage of Domis HP, Res, Def, Attack (stats) per lvl

But percentage of damage taken buy pets is reflected onto domi.

new Skills

lvl 80 needing lvl 70 skill.

Hive Master. 

Lets domi summon another of each type pet. new pet every second lvl . But weakens all pets by a half.

So lvl 1 gives say a Kaz - but both Kaz HP is half of the total, lvl 2 adds HP. lvl 3 next pet and so on..

Edited by AngelicPretty, 19 June 2014 - 08:27 PM.

domi pets range was reduced already some time ago... well 1 thing's for sure, devs should work on the pets behaviour - they are bugged often. Example the union tree map, if u summon the pets on the tree and jump down they dont follow/attack properly - domis are forced to re-summon them on the ground to make them work again (happens in some pve-areas too)

1 more suggestion we already mentioned in any other thread long ago, what about capturing a skill from a mob that can be used for some period, I would like to be able to capture a damn evil mob like Avengers can do but that would lead into another unbalanced -_-...

for domis have been alot of suggestions already (Stealing Mana as an AoE for example) - cant find the related topic atm but was a list with alot of suggestions

Pets should be affected by all buffs i.e Healing Totem/Divine Protection etc

THANKS to AP, u lead me in the right direction regarding the missing suggestions ^^

here we go

https://docs.google....p=sharing#gid=0

but I still miss another suggestion, was sth like capture a monsters skill....

Edited by ThreeTimes6, 19 June 2014 - 09:00 PM.

Lithi's google doc 

https://docs.google....p=sharing#gid=0

 

o.o Leesh posted to Lithi's suggestions on page one...

 

 

1 target in Terms of Service for full duration = 14 second of stun inflicted

2 targets in Terms of Service for full duration = 28 seconds of stun inflicted

3 targets in Terms of Service for full duration = 42 seconds of stun inflicted

etc

frim where you got this funny list? i dont remember me that Terms of Service works light this

 

Well i did my own calculation here, and as you can see it clearly proves my theory that Terms of Service only lasts 14 seconds at max:

Spoiler

The calculation crap is so funny here.

Its an AoE stun, it does not share 14 seconds of stun across its targets, Im adding together its total stun effect ability to total targets.

Example;

Terrified Scream: Has 17 second root on 10 targets. This is a total of 170 seconds of bind effect inflicted if casted on max targets. Fact.  Any more questions ?

The calculation crap is so funny here.

Confi! You are Asian right? And therefore good in math. Do you get this?

I mean just because everyone of those targets individually experiences 14 seconds of stun (if all caught at the same time, if not it's of course less) doesn't mean you can just add that all together. IMO. Pretty sure about that. I'd even add the word "Fact.".

 

 

I mean just because everyone of those targets individually experiences 14 seconds of stun

You're maybe starting to understand. Yes. Targets inside Terms of Service experience individually the stun. If two targets are inside Terms of Service for its full duration, its a 14 second stun to each target, resulting in 28 seconds of stun inflicted TOTAL across both players during the 14 seconds effect, with your 1 skill.

 

 

 Doesn't mean you can just add that all together IMO

Why not ?  

Across all these threads I have made the same suggestions again and again; lower duration time of negative effect abilities and lower cooldowns. I'm not discriminating, im hoping for a more dynamic combat.  Fact is, in battlefields, when a Terms of Service drop on top of ya, there's not much you can do except wait and die if that Defi doesn't get rupted. Defi battlefield scores are very good, they are very easy to get random kills with OP magic AoE. The ability to drop a 14 second AoE stun , then drop ticking AoE damages on top is pretty insane when you look at the max stun potential.

Don't hate like I speak a nerf to Terms of Service, when in reality my suggestion makes it stronger. I said half duration and half cooldown with 100% stun chance for duration. Shorter duration will help with bottlenecking problem in battlefields.

You're maybe starting to understand. Yes. Targets inside Terms of Service experience individually the stun. If two targets are inside Terms of Service for its full duration, its a 14 second stun to each target, resulting in 28 seconds of stun inflicted TOTAL across both players during the 14 seconds effect, with your 1 skill.

 

Don't hate like I speak a nerf to Terms of Service, when in reality my suggestion makes it stronger. I said half duration and half cooldown with 100% stun chance for duration. Shorter duration will help with bottlenecking problem in battlefields.

don't hate your thoughts on Terms of Service nerf (even tho I think it can remain untouched)

+ there are still enough classes to cause those bottleneck situations,

+ I could care less since I'm not playing anymore and don't see me playing again at the moment

I think I get what you're trying to say, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

You can't say Terms of Service is a 96 whatever seconds long stun, since it's only 14 no matter how many people are stuck in it, *noone will experience 96 seconds of stun*.

(*I get that this is not what you're trying to say*)

So technically for you Terms of Service could remain 14 seconds long, but with the number of targets reduced.

If not I give up, I don't get it & I feel like derailing the topic to just Terms of Service talk.

remembering Defiler when it was a very good choice for Free Player - thats Years ago.

it became a Cash Shop only Class special if you compare em to Mystics.

well i don`t want a Class balancing for +30 lvl 90 only - but i repeat myself here.

anyway i focus on skills that lose there attractiveness later on  - cuz i wonder if that really have to be...

Soul Shield

old:

Temporarily increase your Short Range Defense Power.

new:Temporarily increase your shield's Block Defense

Attack of Curse

the animation from this skill is kind of slow, hate to wait for it  -pls fix that.

&

Summon Kazara & Summon Lenatore

does we really need this Skill as a Soul Hunter?

no Defiler use em.... so its for 49 FoC purpose only? outdated and should be Dominator only - if you ask me.

Pet System is broken in my Eyes.

why? cuz. the Master stats and Equipment are not involved crucial enough.

But even if that would be not the Case...the System is not attractive or appealing enough into my Eyes.

Even the pick up Pet from the Cash Shop seams more evolved and complex! how can that be?!

mby. do a combination from Skill Tree (Cash Shop Pet) and Gear Window like the Possession Beast.

an even better Idea  would be to create an extra NpC (or Window)  where you can transplant new organs and body-parts for your Pets (or Boss Pet) to create your own customize Dominator Pets...technology / Quest based.

(Each Class should have there own Unique Quest Tree)

Generally spoken this Class needs a major update and upgrade special for free Players.

&

Blood Moon & Bloody Spear

both Filler and not attractive cuz. of the low Range and DPS 

i don`t even know who has the Skill Points to lvl this all out...

best would be to replace em in general i think.

an Party Evasion buff for the Party mby.

other could be an debuff (aoe) reduce evasion or something...

Curse of Restoration

old:

Curse the target's nearby enemies to temporarily reduce their HP and MP Recovery.

i`m no Fan of HP/MP Recovery Skills so best would be to replace this Skill for something useful.

mby. something like it can reduce the max Number of buffes from the Target(s)

(Max Buffs - 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)

Fury

old:

Confuse the target and other enemies near it for a set duration. (pretty useless like its now)

new:

targets at 10m range have to attack each other for 10secs.

Deadly Disease

old:

Decrease Surrounding Enemies Maximum HP

this is a nonsense Skill into my Eyes if we had lvl 100... its beyond OP 

16 targets i find no Words... -40 % HP 55 secs...

its shiftless and needs a replacement.

i like the Idea of a debuff for a Single target that can spread a dot to all nearby Allys at 12m range.

make em Suffer some contagious Virus...duration 10 secs but it wanders from target to target and if no one dies and 

they stay at 12m range it won`t stop and circles till targets are dead ^.^

Terms of Service is fine as is i think. its obvious when they are placing it so you know to run. and Druid, Rogue, comies, warrior etc all can get out of Terms of Service. and kill the often squishy defi.

Hello everyone,

Just a few thoughts about Terms of Service because something troubles me so far.

What I read in the chat during battles is that globally people are sick of Terms of Service.

What I read here concerning this particular issue is funny because it can be summarize into "oooh nooo, Terms of Service is not op, we're harmless, you know you can get out of Terms of Service when you want how you want".

I do apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way but this is complete bullsh*t.

This only tells me that you guys play a defi and you do not want your class to be nerfed because "YES" Terms of Service is a plain 14 sec stun presented in a bastard form with ticks, that you can launch from behind a wall and that completely breaks game dynamics.

Of course some people can escape from it with a dash, it works very often, like 10 times out of 100. Please save your argument "I do it everytime" I already read that too many times and I don't see the famous " I " during battles, what I do see is always a bunch of people dieing.

This is the only grief we have toward defis, you can keep your 3 sec-stun, your distance-root, your lithify, the fear on the SH, honestly it's cool. What is not is that you guys want to defend a skill that paralizes entire teams just because you don't want your classes touched. I have seen a lot of you crying about WLs during months because of the hush, I saw you you complaining about the root that is too long (even if it lets you the ability to attack) and now I see you complain that we should not touch a 14-sec stun.

So in case you haven't been on a battlefield for a while.

FoC : cast from behind walls, pillars etc, Terms of Service secures entire areas

Hydro station : Put a Terms of Service in front of the spawn, defi holds an entire team because you are forced to leave the spawn by a bottle neck.

Tree maps : You can cast Terms of Service almost directly on the spawn from the ground, so we have to jump from sides and arrive down with only 50% HP.

Bridges of destiny : 3 giant bottlenecks.

Dark Fortress : you can block bridges, side paths, only with that skill, defi holds entire team again

Den of Arachnids : this map is just a succession of corridors

Ion Mine : ok this one may be played normally since there is a lot of space

Flamed heart : again this is just a bunch of corridors

Dragon's lair : this one doesn't really rely on fighting so... (and is played by only 6ppl during the night so...)

Honestly I wouldn't want your class being touched or anything but the closest thing I can compare Terms of Service too is WL's root, and said root has counter-measures, not a lot, but they exist. What is the counter-measure to a 14 sec area stun ? (I don't accept "having a dash" as one sorry !). Oh and Terms of Service area is so nice that all your teammates stand inside since it makes them invincible regarding to melees or anyone who would want to get too close.

Defis are currently locking up every battlefield since the team that has the most defis wins and what should be an op skill to be used strategically with the right timing is just spammed non stop. Plus this thing is making your team mates invincible since they just have to stand in Terms of Service range not to be bothered by anyone.

If I take the PvP kill ranking right now there are 11 defis, more than 1/5th of the ranked ppl so I guess they're not doing so bad.

So, yes, to conclude, Terms of Service shoud be balanced in some way.

Keeping the current cooldown but lowering the stun to 6-8 sec or put a freaking 1min+ cooldown on it like the majority of level-80 skills have to avoid the spam thing.

Concerning domi now :

domi res build needs to be nerfed, it's too op.

More seriously this class needs some kind of boost, I don't even remember the last time I saw one on the battlefield and when there is one my first thought is "cool, easy target".

The last thing I have to say is that I read a lot of interventions in these skill change topics from guys that I haven't seen on the battlefield for years or who would write things like "I don't care I don't play anymore" on other topics. Honestly... We're trying to get everyone f**d the same way improve things here, if you're not playing just don't post, thank you.

Thank you for the time you spent reading, have a nice day.

Will

Edited by W1lliam, 20 June 2014 - 08:43 AM.

I dont think Krux casters are that bad as is really and need no adjustments.

 

Most time when i see people QQ about them its cus they got little curse res ( and alot of 85+ ppl dont ) So tru lel

 

I like kaz being able to slow. in 49 and 69 its a life saver. and 90foc comies have speed buff. Also for TD bosses etc ungeared casters need t to help kite. I'm not saying get rid of slow, thats the one thing that makes Kazara Kazara. I'm saying in all fairness it shouldnt be ignoring a commies AM.

 

49 there isnt many SH anymore and they really need Bind. So to take bind off them would be a bad idea.

69 Bind also is about the only way a defi or Domi can kill a twink.

 

Hello everyone,

 

Just a few thoughts about Terms of Service because something troubles me so far.

What I read in the chat during battles is that globally people are sick of Terms of Service.

What I read here concerning this particular issue is funny because it can be summarize into "oooh nooo, Terms of Service is not op, we're harmless, you know you can get out of Terms of Service when you want how you want".

 

I do apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way but this is complete bullsh*t.

This only tells me that you guys play a defi and you do not want your class to be nerfed because "YES" Terms of Service is a plain 14 sec stun presented in a bastard form with ticks, that you can launch from behind a wall and that completely breaks game dynamics.

Of course some people can escape from it with a dash, it works very often, like 10 times out of 100. Please save your argument "I do it everytime" I already read that too many times and I don't see the famous " I " during battles, what I do see is always a bunch of people dieing.

 

This is the only grief we have toward defis, you can keep your 3 sec-stun, your distance-root, your lithify, the fear on the SH, honestly it's cool. What is not is that you guys want to defend a skill that paralizes entire teams just because you don't want your classes touched. I have seen a lot of you crying about WLs during months because of the hush, I saw you you complaining about the root that is too long (even if it lets you the ability to attack) and now I see you complain that we should not touch a 14-sec stun.

 

So in case you haven't been on a battlefield for a while.

FoC : cast from behind walls, pillars etc, Terms of Service secures entire areas

Hydro station : Put a Terms of Service in front of the spawn, defi holds an entire team because you are forced to leave the spawn by a bottle neck.

Tree maps : You can cast Terms of Service almost directly on the spawn from the ground, so we have to jump from sides and arrive down with only 50% HP.

Bridges of destiny : 3 giant bottlenecks.

Dark Fortress : you can block bridges, side paths, only with that skill, defi holds entire team again

Den of Arachnids : this map is just a succession of corridors

Ion Mine : ok this one may be played normally since there is a lot of space

Flamed heart : again this is just a bunch of corridors

Dragon's lair : this one doesn't really rely on fighting so... (and is played by only 6ppl during the night so...)

 

Honestly I wouldn't want your class being touched or anything but the closest thing I can compare Terms of Service too is WL's root, and said root has counter-measures, not a lot, but they exist. What is the counter-measure to a 14 sec area stun ? (I don't accept "having a dash" as one sorry !). Oh and Terms of Service area is so nice that all your teammates stand inside since it makes them invincible regarding to melees or anyone who would want to get too close.

Defis are currently locking up every battlefield since the team that has the most defis wins and what should be an op skill to be used strategically with the right timing is just spammed non stop. Plus this thing is making your team mates invincible since they just have to stand in Terms of Service range not to be bothered by anyone.

If I take the PvP kill ranking right now there are 11 defis, more than 1/5th of the ranked ppl so I guess they're not doing so bad.

 

So, yes, to conclude, Terms of Service shoud be balanced in some way.

Keeping the current cooldown but lowering the stun to 6-8 sec or put a freaking 1min+ cooldown on it like the majority of level-80 skills have to avoid the spam thing.

 

 

 

Concerning domi now :

 

domi res build needs to be nerfed, it's too op.

 

More seriously this class needs some kind of boost, I don't even remember the last time I saw one on the battlefield and when there is one my first thought is "cool, easy target".

 

 

The last thing I have to say is that I read a lot of interventions in these skill change topics from guys that I haven't seen on the battlefield for years or who would write things like "I don't care I don't play anymore" on other topics. Honestly... We're trying to get everyone f**d the same way improve things here, if you're not playing just don't post, thank you.

 

Thank you for the time you spent reading, have a nice day.

 

Will

@AP Replies in quote, but basically yes most of your points are true

@Will Well, yes Terms of Service is very problematic for those situations, but only for those situations...everyone on here is completely ignoring the pve aspect of the game to which if Terms of Service saw a nerf that might throw the pve game out of balance. In pvp, all you need to do is isolate the defiler and, unless theyre a mall whore, theyre gonners. But yes, most defis are smart enough to hang back with their team and cast it in front of them so they dont get picked off. Idk about you but I usually gun for defis first for that reason.

As for your domi comment, you clearly haven't seen me in pvp unless youre a mallwhore I'm not the simplest kill in the field. But still totally true dominators need some more oomf

ermm, a domi in battlefields - u can see some of them, depends what kind of battlefield u  join (no matter if Nova or Trifri server) - and an easy target, well if all jump at once on a domi, sure, easy target - if the domi is well played and the player itself knows how to handle his/her enemies it can be damn interesting (had such a situation today on Nova --> Sin + Shammy + Commy vs. Domi, what u think happened... ?) ^^

Edited by ThreeTimes6, 20 June 2014 - 09:56 AM.

Edited by SidZSpY, 20 June 2014 - 10:12 AM.

 

um..not a good idea if that happens defiler will be like god of kills class.

You are forgetting WLs bro..WLs.. thier instant dash,instant halt,instant hush=fullparty wipe in bridge map.

Defiler spend most of thier time in casting skills..since 80% of skills for defilers have a cast time.

 

You're not reading it properly, example would be Terms of Service casted at full duration=a Terms of Service a full duration with no Druid/Serk/WL/Tempy/Commie getting a lucky escape.

If Terms of Service has been down for 10 seconds then it would only be the 4 seconds that it has left. Terms of Service has two skills to counter play as it is right now, both of which are horrible to do it. One being clamor, which is TWO seconds, the other is removing trap which requires you to get close enough to do it properly. There's only ONE avenger that can do that. It's making sure that there is no dumb counter-play involved with this skill, but by all means you can leave it in it's current incarnation, just don't complain when people escape your Terms of Service easily.

A WL isn't an instant wipe at this point in time without a properly timed follow up, and even still there are many ways to counter it which are all up to the PLAYERS ABILITY to do so. Any prot can counter root, if prot is buffed a bit more so it's BG worthy then you will have a hard counter to root as hypothetically more prots would show up (with this dwindling population that seems unlikely)

Edited by Viole, 20 June 2014 - 10:26 AM.

You're not reading it properly, example would be Terms of Service casted at full duration=a Terms of Service a full duration with no Druid/Serk/WL/Tempy/Commie getting a lucky escape.

 

If Terms of Service has been down for 10 seconds then it would only be the 4 seconds that it has left. Terms of Service has two skills to counter play as it is right now, both of which are horrible to do it. One being clamor, which is TWO seconds, the other is removing trap which requires you to get close enough to do it properly. There's only ONE avenger that can do that. It's making sure that there is no dumb counter-play involved with this skill, but by all means you can leave it in it's current incarnation, just don't complain when people escape your Terms of Service easily.

 

A WL isn't an instant wipe at this point in time without a properly timed follow up, and even still there are many ways to counter it which are all up to the PLAYERS ABILITY to do so. Any prot can counter root, if prot is buffed a bit more so it's BG worthy then you will have a hard counter to root as hypothetically more prots would show up (with this dwindling population that seems unlikely)

 

Spoiler

You caster mains need to actually play a melee at 90 before you even TRY to address how easy mode you might think it is, the damage is skewed from Trinity a bit but it's not that simple and if you gave me ANY class with equivalent gears to my melee my performance would be tripled just saying

i get it what u mean,but your forgetting about how skill works

Once a defiler cast's Terms of Service it is active in that perticular radius for 14 seconds,on which if it catches anyone they get the tick of stun i.e 3 seconds,but if that tick is raised to 10 seconds which is more than enuf to take mass people down EASILY then that would basically make the class OP not to forget when the 10 second will be over it activates again that would give additional 10 seconds since adding 10 second 1st and then 4 seconds wouldnt be possible.And if someone lands on the Terms of Service area after 5~6 seconds of casting theyw ill be stuck for 10 second too. So basically its gona ruin the game.

And WL is a wiper with the LOOONG halt duration and soon to come the return of overbearing clamore.As a defiler i wont even think of going 30m close to a WL coz of the freakin dash and debuffs..anyways srry for topic change,but my point is the way you want Terms of Service is somewhat like season 1 which was OP.

I think the way Terms of Service now is good,but a minor improvement is needed since Terms of Service mostly misses and the tick duration are too low