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to anyone who might listen (Mage Catastrophe)


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#1 Ramesses

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:05 PM

Hello,

 

this is my second time trying to post a long ass complaint because of my 2$ mouse closed the page just because.. >.>

anyway,

i am a mage player and i have enjoyed the class since iRose until recently after the latest update.

i never been the type to b!tch and moan when a nerf comes to my class because i always knew you had your reasons which i come to see eventually, but this time you over did it with Mages taking away the Aural thingy.

Mages advantage always been the offense side since they got very low defense (even in new gears) and even with mana shield it works on that same defense so its almost futile. and now that got taken away..

players are like "omg Arual is what made you a mage?" apparently so yes because now those high percentage damage skill doesn't even come close to what other skills in other classes do in Physical Damage. maybe i dont know how to sort my mage because i would say that too if i were you but i have tried.. the very fact that a fire mage which has the highest probability of scoring the highest damage when they stack up the difference isnt how its supposed to be (according to the Element passive table in skill power increase)

its not just me who isnt happy about that update for mages but,

i might be the only one with the regret of just buying two months of premium on my mage and of course if i ask for it to be transferred or a refund of some kind the answer would be a "No"

i am sure you test everything before making it official but please try to test again because it does not work for mages anymore, either the magic defense down values to be balanced or the whole magic attack/defense mechanism works in a fair way to the Physical one.

i was told if i had something to say i should come in here and post it because Staff actually welcomes the feedbacks but i very much doubt that i will get anyone's response but players that if i get any..

i hope i am wrong and someone explains any of what they got planned for Mages.

sorry for the long ass "feedback"

 

Thank you.


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#2 djvudija

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:25 PM

yes and even by their standards the new gear is wrong..
only one set is good and it is for wind types focusing on the dodge and mspd

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#3 Castanho

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:23 PM

Being arrogant some times are necessary since it's one more topic about cryers.

 

GO TRAIN! GO STUDY! GO TEST BUILD! GO IMPROVE YOU TECHNIQUES!

4 elemtal skill tree to follow. 

I'ts impossible that you're so bad that you can't find a decent build -.-

As I said on another topic, I'm not even full geared and I still can do lots of massive damage and kill players at cd, not couting my -_-in awesome extra defense by my mana shield.

Mage is a weak class, suposed ot be played for that one who know techniques and don't get complaining about a challange that may appear!

I just did some changes after this update and everything got ok.

 

Need help with new builds? May I can help

 

If no, sorry bro but I have to say, those one who keep crying aren't more than a noob!


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#4 Ramesses

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:38 PM

"cryers" ?

aside from English, i think i am entitled to give my own version of feedback; if the staff has a problem with it they can tell me.

thank you.


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#5 Castanho

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

Sure, everyone are entitled to cry, there i's no problem.


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#6 llullTAKSIAPO

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:22 PM

Pedro ! did i told you not to share my mage build!!!! :p_sad:


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#7 Castanho

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:41 AM

Pedro ! did i told you not to share my mage build!!!! :p_sad:

 

:heh:

 

I will not 


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#8 Bendersmom

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

I think Ramesesses is doing a good job of stating his opinion.  he did not come on to cry, he wants to discuss the changes.  He is a good mage who has rebuilt his mage a number of times and still is not happy with his build.  Castanho, he is trying to have a discussion here, not get on here to complain.  

 

I suggested that mages discuss the issues and if they think the reduction in aural is too much discuss other options.  That is what he is trying to do.


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#9 Ramesses

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

I think Ramesesses is doing a good job of stating his opinion.  he did not come on to cry, he wants to discuss the changes.  He is a good mage who has rebuilt his mage a number of times and still is not happy with his build.  Castanho, he is trying to have a discussion here, not get on here to complain.  

 

I suggested that mages discuss the issues and if they think the reduction in aural is too much discuss other options.  That is what he is trying to do.

 

Thank You mom <3


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#10 Ramesses

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:00 PM

why no staff will look at my complaint!! 

all i got is flamers here checking out my topic 


Edited by Ramesses, 23 July 2014 - 02:44 PM.

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#11 Leonis

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

Ramesses, I have given a response regarding this feedback.

 

To put it in to perspective, look at how much effect the change of one skill has impacted your play style. That is an extremely good indicator of the reliance that was placed on a single skill, when that is not the intended case of any class or skill. Each skill should have their benefit and use and the effect of Aural Pierce was high, for what effort was put in to it to make it so effective. It was quite easy to negate any Magic Defense any class had with minimal effort.

 

As stated in the patch note:

Reviewing the power of the effect, it was proving to be too powerful in its intended design. It was never intended to be able to negate a target's Magic Defense with minimal effort in player build.

If you want more of an explanation, that's fine. I gave one from another user who asks for more as well later in the thread.

 

 


Why it wasn't done "gradually" was because this wasn't a tweaking kind of adjustment. The skill's base rate for what can affect magic defense reduction is known to us. Seeing how much the skill can grown with minimal effort in stat build, and what it actually can do to a target are things we can easily put to a calculated formula for a large range of test scenarios. Many of which were negating a huge amount of magic defense. On top of the already 15% reduction, Mages were further reducing by a straight amount, that has a high base value. Not only that, but it's applying as an AoE! That's really powerful!

 

The skill was never intended to negate an entire group of players from their magic defense. It was meant to weaken Magic Defense, to allow their damage to be more impacting from normal. When you're at level 230, 100 Magic Defense may not seem like a lot, but you already will have a high amount of INT and it makes it even more powerful if you include a bit of Charm. That 100, will naturally be somewhere in the mid 200s without Charm. Add Charm to it, you easily scale past 300s, in to the 400s in Magic Defense, which is more acceptable to us for what most classes may have as Magic Defense. So you're taking away 15% + some 400-ish Magic Defense per targets. This severely cripples the ability to reduce magic type damage.

 

In fact, for a level 230, the difference between 2000 Magic Defense and (minus 15% and 400 Magic Defense) = 1300 Magic Defense, is more than a 10% increase to damage, on top of the damage enhancing skills already that could go there.

 

Now if I put back in place, the 3x higher value, that'll be 1200 Magic Defense removed. That 2000 Magic Defense becomes 500, making that increase to damage now roughly 30%. Too much from what we wanted and 10% is more practical, and manageable, both on the defensive side, and offensive, given the teamwork that could go in to making use of the AoE effect.

 

So it isn't something we've given light thought to. We just had other priorities to attend to first before we got the opportunity to do something about it.

 

I understand you feel weaker, it was a reduction to the power of a skill that allowed for more damage. The problem is, it was too strong, and it was not intended to be. I don't know what your play style is, to feel so weak, but the class has still shown to be powerful in their own play right. AoEs are not designed to be quick killing skills, which with Aural Pierce it was proving to be quite useful, because of the negated Magic Defenses of all targets within the AoE of Aural Pierce.

 

I'm not sure what more I can really state regarding this change, but I'm open to hearing you out and seeing if there are remaining balance considerations that can be looked in to. But at this point, I still feel the class is capable when played by their design.


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#12 Ramesses

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:19 PM

i very much agree with everything you said and you have a point sir but,

since you are talking about the class from the whole picture of other classes and what they are capable of try to look at it from a point of view that each class has its advantage and its own Mastery of things, i wont say mages are a hot target in Arenas or such it was a price for being known for the offense advantage, but what do mages got now? only the buffs down on some of the skills and even that isn't enough.

I Myself am a Fire Type fully with as much int as i could get so i got the advantage of scoring the most damage in my class and today i was testing AGAIN! and my most powerful skill barely did 3k on an average raider with Aural..

i am not asking you how to win a 1 on 1 i am asking for what do mages got now? yes they were powerful but you are going for the "big right picture" for the class this isnt the way.

when i seen the new gears i was so eager to see what mages got.. usually tells me how you want us to play the game the right way and so far all classes got decent types for 3 sets thats for each build you want each class to have.. and it is so good so far despite it being not tried yet for the lack of a full set for players but i am sure its going to be amazing, but see for mages you got one set that is viable for mages covers the defense weakness for dodge and it proved successful for Wind types and i got a friend whom i recommended wind for it and tested together with his winter set fully refined and his wind tree fully maxed.

but i am a fire build which should be the type that would do the most damage and people keep telling me just like you stated too.. too much was " how much effect the change of one skill has impacted your play style" and i couldnt agree more but if we talk numbers as within the reality if physical attack and magical attack are different things which they should be it should be understandable that any class other than muse should be less immune to magical powers; so yea forget about aural but how about those skills on their own without aural the numbers arent right for the strongest skills supported by a lot of INT and Skill power thats from the fire element passive it self if stacked up to 5

i respect your point of view and its FAIR but its the very same i hear from someone who have a raider or a Champ like myself.

but why Mages got the least fans here, and ever since that update where we got the Elements mages started being so powerful like it was something was long due to mages and you tried to compensate with these amazing powers which you shared on more than one class started adjusting each one and when it came to mage you over did it..

i just hope someone over there from the staff makes a Mages and participate in one of the Crystal Defender's Arenas for a week or so get a feel from the game it self then we can talk but supporting the majority just because we are numbers to you is not cool.

and btw that video posted for a mage on page 6 on update thread isn't your average game.. you cannot possibly tell me because of a Sh!ty game for the other team that the other one was too good, as soon as you are spotted you are done and you cannot no matter what do an impact now so the class is pretty much dead and i have tried A LOT of builds and ways and gave it some thoughts..no use.

just look into it please, maybe the whole magical damage or something.. i hate to say it but there will be an anomaly if mages are taken out of the equation of pvp in general.


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#13 ganjen

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:11 AM

maybe the aural not nerfed as much as it is now, probably we can go half from now, lets say from 300 - 100 maybe we can make it from 300 - 200 , we can see now the mages are dissapear from the cd market


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#14 Ramesses

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:57 PM

@ganjen i think they are trying to fix the main problem which they are right about having one skill that the class rely on is redundant

i think if magical damage were to be adjusted properly it would be fair 


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#15 Ramesses

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

they ask that players participate in the community and in my first attempt all I get is flamers and when a staff actually replies he is bias and criticsize the class as if he self-centered player who favors other classes, and now the topic is dead..

kudos rose.. you are by far the worst community there is.

I know my reply wont do sh!t but I think its enough its there for those whom might wanna see the truth eventually that if doesn't get deleted or I get banned, I will make it my mission to spread the word about how you are.

happy money hunting.

thank you.. not


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#16 iMatt

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:17 PM

Salam aleyikum M7md,

Hey others,

 

all I have to say to this discussion:

 

 

I agree that mages are not the issue for other players now as they were before and I have no idea how to make mage actually competitive again but there are several classes that have the same issue at the moment which is no relation between survivability and damage output.

 

Edit: What I miss is a clear line from Gravity about the intended design of classes - for example when you say Raiders should come out of stealth nuke one target (that includes champs) within XXX seconds and disappear (raiders have way too low damage output but are a bit too tanky for a real assasin as example) or mages as ranged glass cannons should handle class X while suffer under class Y - we have no idea how Gravity intends certain classes working with eatch other - in my opinion the "3 shot" design of mages (even with aoe skills) against certain classes was too mutch while for example a scout that is also intended to "burst" targets down would need for the same on a manashielded mage probably 15-20 seconds.

 

Greetings enjoy your weekend

 

Matt


Edited by iMatt, 08 August 2014 - 09:26 PM.

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#17 Ramesses

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:47 AM

Salam upon you Mattie,

thanks for stopping by the topic, at least you care.

and i do not deny that mages were over powered based on one skill like that staff guy mentioned but that doesn't mean to leave the class just be as it is; after he pointed the idea of one skill being the center of that power i also pointed that should have some fixing on their part on the whole concept of magical damage so they could give some of what they taken back but in the right way which is make each skill have its own power either on the element system that they have updated recently or based on whatever they see fit BUT not to ignore the whole damn case which is what is happening now.. its like back in iRose staff way before warpportal.

i can see that they are trying to balance the classes all together and they ask us to discuss it with our reps which should be our link to the devs but apparently mages have a sh!t for a rep if i didn't get a proper response from since i posted that topic or even contradict me in any manner and discuss what makes they okay with nerfing mages, but hey.. he got to be the rep so and devs got to be devs and everyone got to be whatever they wanna be as long as the major classes are happy.

if they are trying to fix classes bit by bit or even working on it as we speak don't we deserve some or at least I some kind of assurance other than just saying mages are balanced and there are others who are happy with their mages being good like that guy with bibi staff posted his video of CD in the update thread.. i mean ffs he was a wind type for the most part and doing hit and run wasn't even that good, and when he got attacked it was like like two bangs and poof he dead and still they say they okay with it.

i stopped playing the game but i tried to one cd today.. the game is dead man not because of mages but that anomaly i mentioned for letting a certain class be over powered wont let there be any balance.

but what do i know i am just one mage complaining, right?

if it seems like i am still upset its because i already paid you guys for my premium for two friggin month right before the F-in update, spend it in good health.

i hope someone who spent some time on mages lately gives their input truthfully and show me how can mages be played now when they are still hot targets..

 

RamessesII out.


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#18 pdfisher

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:21 PM

There should be more than one mage rep, if one isn't doing the job for you, feel free to pm one of the other ones. I personally am glad that you took the time to air your grievances, and did it in a respectful and thoughtful manner. I can see you care about this class.


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#19 Ramesses

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 07:56 PM

wow

thank you.

finally a human being with a civilized manners.

thank you again pdfisher


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#20 asuboy

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:08 PM

There should be more than one mage rep, if one isn't doing the job for you, feel free to pm one of the other ones. I personally am glad that you took the time to air your grievances, and did it in a respectful and thoughtful manner. I can see you care about this class.

 

one repp is good enough, the problem Is, the repp her self is quitting on discussing the matter of the class, because eventually the dev team won't even bother to adjust what they have done. it is not a discussion , it is a change period.. I think, what ever they" dev " team feel to do they would do base on their knowledge , not base on what is really happening in the game... question is ,, seen any mage lately in the game arena ??? if there is any, they will quit after the first game, cause they will either die 40 +++ times, or they are frustrated being a first target  because raiders and champs are OP now ... to make it fair, I think katar raiders attack speed and crits need to be nerfed to balance mage's weak offence power, as well as champ spear debuff , that's just too much , needs to be adjusted as well, as far as champs, they need to lower the beserk , they damage 6k - 7k lol normally 3 skills is enough to kill a player ...


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#21 asuboy

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:11 PM

Salam upon you Mattie,

thanks for stopping by the topic, at least you care.

and i do not deny that mages were over powered based on one skill like that staff guy mentioned but that doesn't mean to leave the class just be as it is; after he pointed the idea of one skill being the center of that power i also pointed that should have some fixing on their part on the whole concept of magical damage so they could give some of what they taken back but in the right way which is make each skill have its own power either on the element system that they have updated recently or based on whatever they see fit BUT not to ignore the whole damn case which is what is happening now.. its like back in iRose staff way before warpportal.

i can see that they are trying to balance the classes all together and they ask us to discuss it with our reps which should be our link to the devs but apparently mages have a sh!t for a rep if i didn't get a proper response from since i posted that topic or even contradict me in any manner and discuss what makes they okay with nerfing mages, but hey.. he got to be the rep so and devs got to be devs and everyone got to be whatever they wanna be as long as the major classes are happy.

if they are trying to fix classes bit by bit or even working on it as we speak don't we deserve some or at least I some kind of assurance other than just saying mages are balanced and there are others who are happy with their mages being good like that guy with bibi staff posted his video of CD in the update thread.. i mean ffs he was a wind type for the most part and doing hit and run wasn't even that good, and when he got attacked it was like like two bangs and poof he dead and still they say they okay with it.

i stopped playing the game but i tried to one cd today.. the game is dead man not because of mages but that anomaly i mentioned for letting a certain class be over powered wont let there be any balance.

but what do i know i am just one mage complaining, right?

if it seems like i am still upset its because i already paid you guys for my premium for two friggin month right before the F-in update, spend it in good health.

i hope someone who spent some time on mages lately gives their input truthfully and show me how can mages be played now when they are still hot targets..

 

RamessesII out.

I would say 100 % mages complained, the one supporting the nerfed are the one who plays mage as a second class not as their main class. I quit playing my mage as soon as they nerfed it cause it just stress me out playing a defect class ...I just play what most people play pretty much raiders and champs ... so basically class is not balance ...


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#22 Ramesses

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

hi asuboy

thanks for stopping by the topic,

i very much agree with you and i wanted to say about 100% of mages are not happy with the nerf but who am i to oppose that the "staff guy" 

i mean seriously i've read his response about 4 times now and every time i still feel that he was kind of condescending; not used to that kind of attitude from a staff, just because i am not your "average active" member doesn't mean what i am suggesting is wrong or not important by your standards of your average flaming players too like those who were the first to respond to the topic.

tell you the truth i was jealous when i was reading the latest update notes and it says about the scout's aoe range increase for that trap thingy that it was an answer to the class rep suggestions.

please don't do this.. DO NOT RUIN THE MOST INTERESTING CLASS OF ROSE ONLINE

 


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#23 iMatt

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:50 AM

Mo7trm,

 

ah relax m7md, you are more active and honorable as the "average" forum poster :3

 

Edit: I can just advice you contacting Leonis and/or Genesis (an MAIN mage player btw) to find proper and balanced ways to actually make mages entertaining!

If there is no Representative for Mages you feel confident with (I know some and I really value for example Ahya as a good mage player) I am sure they will have an open ear for you in a forum message system conversation - there you can bring suggestions how to make mage inetresting as working out possible new systems - please don't forget that I also started playing as Mage ( and did that over 8 years pre scout/raider rerolling so I feel your pain just see it from a different point of view)

 

Msr om kol el sqafat.

 

Selam

 


Edited by iMatt, 10 August 2014 - 10:56 AM.

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#24 asuboy

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:21 PM

Mo7trm,

 

ah relax m7md, you are more active and honorable as the "average" forum poster :3

 

Edit: I can just advice you contacting Leonis and/or Genesis (an MAIN mage player btw) to find proper and balanced ways to actually make mages entertaining!

If there is no Representative for Mages you feel confident with (I know some and I really value for example Ahya as a good mage player) I am sure they will have an open ear for you in a forum message system conversation - there you can bring suggestions how to make mage inetresting as working out possible new systems - please don't forget that I also started playing as Mage ( and did that over 8 years pre scout/raider rerolling so I feel your pain just see it from a different point of view)

 

Msr om kol el sqafat.

 

Selam

 

ahya did point this matter out , but the answer is the same like leonis did above. stone cold . they should have login to the game arena once a while, and see what actual happen in the game . especially on a mage. therefore, they know the exact why mage needs their ability to kill quick because they won't last 5 seconds when a raider is on their butt... and for the record, my mage has 12k mana shield. it broke in 2-3 seconds , and when I use the skill again , normally it bugs, or got caught up in the jumping action... just watch now, GA only accupied with mostly katar raiders and champs


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#25 Ramesses

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

thanks Mattie but,

why should i contact those who are their jobs is to check out my complaints in their "community" they encouraging us to be at when we have something we need to say.

also the rep problem isn't my problem too they should be the ones contacting him to bring them the latest of how happy are the mage classes with the latest update which is no secret btw.

i bet that rep just switched classes and ignored the whole thing about mages being sheit because he knows they wont listen.

even that guy shazmo when i tried to contact him once in game all he said is reach me in forums and he is no where to be found or probably at the latest update notes page making propaganda for the new trade system which NO ONE is happy with, and i am not about to post the link of this topic again so i get someone like that "staff guy" to look down on me AGAIN!

 

and i agree with asuboy if one of them tried a mage in arena they will get the idea..


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