Salamander Flames too over powered

well, with people like them, (the brains showing ideas on how to nerf the game even more), you won't like them (and other game features progressively destroyed) anymore.

 

Such players are killing the game. My opinion. Looking forward to see this close. Let's wait.

you are one spoiled ignorant lil brat.

looking forward to my comment getting deleted.

Edited by LexLoyalty, 03 October 2014 - 06:35 AM.

I generally destroy the flames by AoE's. Works pretty well. Hell, I still remember one game where I had 9m damage dealt because of destroying 150ish flames in one CD game.

Also, the only summons with AoE damage are the artisan ones I think? All the other ones can't, or at least I've never seen a beast, hawk, hunter or warrior summon do any AoEs.

Eh, Both the cleric Dragons can AoE. Just a reminder. 
Classes With Summons
Hawker
-Beast
Scout
-Hawk
Mage
- Swords
Cleric
-Swords
-Mana Flame
-Salamander Flame
- Bonfire
-Elemental
-Fire Elemental
-Firegon
-Ice Dragon
Dealer
-Hunter
-Merc
Artisan
-Dreadnight
-Judge

Classes without Summons
Soldier

^ Also, I'd already requested that Soldier be given dreadnaught summons as an option. I don't think it was taken seriously.

As for the topic~
While I agree they can be strong, Try to remember just 1-2 Dual AoE raiders can completely counter that, and actually make it worse for you.
Dual Raiders can AoE and inflinct wounded. Reduces healing received. While yes cure can remove stacks of wounded, it's a single target, while the wounded is inflicted in an AoE status. Not only that, but they have 3 other aoes to take out the flames with.. And that's just 1 counter.
Spear Champs, Swords and Axe champs [with pvm aoe's] can all nuke a flame farm in a matter of seconds.
Bourges can aoe them down fast as well- though they cannot keep it up, as their aoe's have large CD's.
Technically anything with an AoE set can counter a flame farm. 
The other option is to bait, and lure people far enough away from the flames that they dont get healed, but the flames stay summoned. Granted, not an easy thing as most players struggle to execute strategy but it does happen by chance once in a while. 

So while it can be... strong, countering it is relatively effortless. And if a cleric is relying solely on flame heals with a few aoes, countering the flames would severely hurt the enemy team, it's a risky tactic. In my opinion, not entirely worth it. I'd simply use it as an option to my advantage but not rely on it ever being there. 

Also, I think flames heal on a % base of the target they're healing. i think* 

buy a brain and you 'll get it, you got enough $$$ I think. I'm not defending the current state of things dumb$$$ . I'd like the team to stop nerfing and nerfing and nerfing. And this thread is again asking to nerf a class... seriously what's wrong with u here ? no wonder this game isn't developing.

So you think an easy game is a good game? Clerics have amazing heals and adding all that healing on top of that because of the flames (which u can now spawn ridiculously often and u can spawn up to 4-5 with the new gems) is just getting out of hand. There should be a lot more teamwork involved in wars but it's just turning like cleric standing in 1 point not moving at all, spamming heals spamming flames.

I don't know what your idea of a good game is but this is just boring. We aren't asking for nerfs, we're asking for some balance, since these new gems have caused more trouble than benefits so far.

So you think an easy game is a good game? Clerics have amazing heals and adding all that healing on top of that because of the flames (which u can now spawn ridiculously often and u can spawn up to 4-5 with the new gems) is just getting out of hand. There should be a lot more teamwork involved in wars but it's just turning like cleric standing in 1 point not moving at all, spamming heals spamming flames.

 

I don't know what your idea of a good game is but this is just boring. We aren't asking for nerfs, we're asking for some balance, since these new gems have caused more trouble than benefits so far.

While I typically avoid quoting Gojio's anymore, he has a point. Though, it's a "ROSE response" and not a typical game response.
In almost any successful PvP MMO, a Healer is capable of keeping up a "dungeon/raid" group by themselves. Which is in most cases 3-5 people. The problem I see with ROSE, is that people expect 1 healer, to keep up a group of 10+ people without them being "over powered"? Seems a bit redundant to point it out, but as a ROLE, clerics are indeed OP, they fundamentally shift too much of the game. 

Most healers in most games, can

Slow the DPS of 3-5 people

While

Focus/Pocket healing 1 person.
Normally if the healer comes under attack, they can no longer focus/pocket, this must heal themselves, and by construction of build, remaining supporting 3-5 people via AoE Heals/HoT's. 

So in truth, the Cleric was already over powered, this does give them more healing functions, but to what end? At the core, they've always held the reigns in any battle. And it shouldn't be like that. 

Chill, just wait for the supprt arti balances to blend with the clerics. Then im sure healing will get addressed more seriously. 

I think a cooldown is reasonable. Something that would give the game a bit more challenge is always welcome.

The salamander flames are easily destroyed

You need to understand that you have to sacrifice a good amount of Skill point to get many salamanders. I gave up my mute,purify,and sleep to achieve this. you don't even take into consideration of this you're a derp

You need to understand that you have to sacrifice a good amount of Skill point to get many salamanders. I gave up my mute,purify,and sleep to achieve this. you don't even take into consideration of this you're a derp

This isnt the point of it.  What took you 30 skill points to get(although entirely your choice because you also get all the summon gauge and bonfire) does over double what you can do with 8-10 different skills that you may have put 50-65 skill points in it.  My heals even have longer cooldowns.   If you want to argue that you put so many sp into getting one skill, well what If I said that the only heal I wanted was heavenly grace.  Can we make that a heal that heals 50k aoe?  Because if thats the only one I want.. I just spent 50 sp getting it.   That sounds insane right?  The mana flame is too powerful and too quickly summoned.  If you look at my first post.. you can see that I healed over 1.2m with a cleric with subpar gear.. Just spamming mana flames. I never used any other heal, not one.  No player should be able to come that high on a score bored with one skill alone--especially not a skill that becomes passive. At least offensive summons require the owner to be attacking their target too, flames just heal anything thats near it. 

The point is its not balanced.  And really, you dont have to sacrifice as much now either because there's a summon gem too. You could easily leave salamander flames at a lower level and still summon extra.   

I'd settle for a longer cooldown.  I'd like to see the level they heal reduced some, make the clerics active heals more important.

As far as offensive summons, I don't think they should be counted towards damage inflicted either--there should be a seperate collumn for summon heals/ summon damage and it should be weighted from there.  I do, however, now that I think about it, think the player should get a kill their summon makes. 

They need to either heal substantially less, or there should be a cooldown thats more than my party heal... or something inbetween that. 

Nothing is overpowered here. I see you're saying that the flames are overpowered. Every classes has been brought into a new over-powered level after the gem update. All classes went over their own limits and you cannot just nerf one class while others go up. This isn't balancing, this is just wrecking the balance of the current's mechanics. Scouts and raiders can do over 100% crit damage now. More skill power for aoe classes and more melee ap for single targeting classes. They all gone over their limits. And Clerics also go over their limits, being able to do more summons or more block rate or damage reduction depending on the build ur desired. And if ur just going to nerf on the way cleric going over their limits while the other classes go over their limits, that is way too wrong. The healing amounts of flames may be overpowered, however they can be easily destroyed too. They only contains around hp of about 7k to 8k, which disappears after taking 2-3 aoe damage. Some champs can do around 7k aoe damage.. In other words, 4 flames can easily be destroyed in seconds, not to mention how many aoe can occur in a second. And on the other hand, flames had a 2.5s cooldown. Casting 4 flames will take like 10 seconds. In reality,the flames u summoned during those 10 seconds are probably destroyed. This is probably gonna give you a good advantage against a team of raiders since they don't have aoes. A team of raiders or scout is deadly to a cleric because of their critical stacking and stuns making cleric unable to heal for some period of time leaving u dead. In circumstances like this, flames are essential. There's an advantage there however, the flames can also be easily countered by a bunch of aoes. No over-powered views on the flames here.

PS: I forgot to edit something here, a cleric also need to gave up some time for heals while he keeps channeling the flames summon spell every 2.5seconds. They won't be able to cast party heals after every 2.5 seconds when the time comes for them to summon flames once again.

Edited by LunaXavier, 03 October 2014 - 11:40 AM.

This isnt the point of it.  What took you 30 skill points to get(although entirely your choice because you also get all the summon gauge and bonfire) does over double what you can do with 8-10 different skills that you may have put 50-65 skill points in it.  My heals even have longer cooldowns.   If you want to argue that you put so many sp into getting one skill, well what If I said that the only heal I wanted was heavenly grace.  Can we make that a heal that heals 50k aoe?  Because if thats the only one I want.. I just spent 50 sp getting it.   That sounds insane right?  The mana flame is too powerful and too quickly summoned.  If you look at my first post.. you can see that I healed over 1.2m with a cleric with subpar gear.. Just spamming mana flames. I never used any other heal, not one.  No player should be able to come that high on a score bored with one skill alone--especially not a skill that becomes passive. At least offensive summons require the owner to be attacking their target too, flames just heal anything thats near it. 

 

The point is its not balanced.  And really, you dont have to sacrifice as much now either because there's a summon gem too. You could easily leave salamander flames at a lower level and still summon extra.   

 

I'd settle for a longer cooldown.  I'd like to see the level they heal reduced some, make the clerics active heals more important.

 

 

As far as offensive summons, I don't think they should be counted towards damage inflicted either--there should be a seperate collumn for summon heals/ summon damage and it should be weighted from there.  I do, however, now that I think about it, think the player should get a kill their summon makes. 

 

 

They need to either heal substantially less, or there should be a cooldown thats more than my party heal... or something inbetween that. 

Why would healing of cleric be a part of their main heal? The thing about Gm's motive is to create more diversity among builds. You know what is over powered? classes with 100 critical damage with an extra 30% critical damage but I don't care because all classes got buffed up real well. 

Edited by Pigggybank, 03 October 2014 - 11:37 AM.

Nothing is overpowered here. I see you're saying that the flames are overpowered. Every classes has been brought into a new over-powered level after the gem update.

In what way are hmm, crossbow scouts overpowered?

 

All classes went over their own limits and you cannot just nerf one class while others go up. This isn't balancing, this is just wrecking the balance of the current's mechanics.

So you agree that 36% hp heal without using any skill acitvly / 3 seconds is balanced?

 

Scouts and raiders can do over 100% crit damage now.

Raiders did this before and now every class can use the crit gem, so what's your point of this?

 

More skill power for aoe classes and more melee ap for single targeting classes. They all gone over their limits. And Clerics also go over their limits, being able to do more summons or more  block rate  or damage reduction depending on the build ur desired.  

As if those are not strong enaugh to neutralise the damage changes?

 

And if ur just going to nerf on the way cleric going over their limits while the other classes go over their limits, that is way too wrong.

Your "over the limit" bla is nothing else than admitting that flames are over powered, means unbalanced.

 

The healing amounts of flames may be overpowered, however they can be easily destroyed too.

You repeat yourself - and they can even faster be recasted.

 

They only contains around hp of about 7k to 8k, which disappears after taking 2-3 aoe damage./hits you mean

This automatically makes AoE / AoE classes essential/"over powered" compared to any other single target class.

 

Some champs can do around 7k aoe damage.. In other words, 4 flames can easily be destroyed in seconds, not to mention how many aoe can occur in a second. And on the other hand, flames had a 2.5s cooldown. Casting 4 flames will take like 10 seconds.

That is not true, it requires 4 "seconds" in a period of 10 seconds.

 

In reality,the flames u summoned during those 10 seconds are probably destroyed. This is probably gonna give you a good advantage against a team of raiders since they don't have aoes.

Exactly, you want Rose becoming the world of AoE and brianless AoE-healing only?

 

A team of raiders or scout is deadly to a cleric because of their critical stacking and stuns making cleric unable to heal for some period of time leaving u dead.

The intention of the whole post skill patch metagame is that 1 player is NOT able to tank plently of people. Just a question did you ever consider to kite your enemies with AoE sleep and recovery HoT effect wisly used on yourself with a 100% uptime?

 

In circumstances like this, flames are essential. There's an advantage there however, the flames can also be easily countered by a bunch of aoes. No over-powered views on the flames here.

Don't get me wrong - I don't want flames being removed, but this new "thing" of the majority of clerics (stacking plently of flames with the new summon gauge gem/bug abuse) is just redicioulus.

Nothing is overpowered here. I see you're saying that the flames are overpowered. Every classes has been brought into a new over-powered level after the gem update. All classes went over their own limits and you cannot just nerf one class while others go up. This isn't balancing, this is just wrecking the balance of the current's mechanics. Scouts and raiders can do over 100% crit damage now. More skill power for aoe classes and more melee ap for single targeting classes. They all gone over their limits. And Clerics also go over their limits, being able to do more summons or more block rate or damage reduction depending on the build ur desired. And if ur just going to nerf on the way cleric going over their limits while the other classes go over their limits, that is way too wrong. The healing amounts of flames may be overpowered, however they can be easily destroyed too. They only contains around hp of about 7k to 8k, which disappears after taking 2-3 aoe damage. Some champs can do around 7k aoe damage.. In other words, 4 flames can easily be destroyed in seconds, not to mention how many aoe can occur in a second. And on the other hand, flames had a 2.5s cooldown. Casting 4 flames will take like 10 seconds. In reality,the flames u summoned during those 10 seconds are probably destroyed. This is probably gonna give you a good advantage against a team of raiders since they don't have aoes. A team of raiders or scout is deadly to a cleric because of their critical stacking and stuns making cleric unable to heal for some period of time leaving u dead. In circumstances like this, flames are essential. There's an advantage there however, the flames can also be easily countered by a bunch of aoes. No over-powered views on the flames here.

 

PS: I forgot to edit something here, a cleric also need to gave up some time for heals while he keeps channeling the flames summon spell every 2.5seconds. They won't be able to cast party heals after every 2.5 seconds when the time comes for them to summon flames once again.

Please go read my first post. 

PS: I forgot to edit something here, a cleric also need to gave up some time for heals while he keeps channeling the flames summon spell every 2.5seconds. They won't be able to cast party heals after every 2.5 seconds when the time comes for them to summon flames once again.

channeling - i would love channeling animations/cast bars being added but wont happen T.T
Like if I didn't call it, you are a "summon flames spam AoE heal while watching TV" cleric - nothing more to discuss with you *points at the door* "out!"

 

Just saying: An Area Of Effect Heal with 9% hp / 3 seconds stackable up to 54% hp every three seconds - and you still complain about being forced to recast with a cooldown of 2.5 seconds?

listen u lil bunch of newbs and cryers, there are like lots of players who rlly understand about mmorpgs, they give suggests, what are them return? nthing, players dont care about others suggests, i suggest one thing about damage, any feedback? no, now u guys complaining about the flames? dude 12k champ 2 hand in a player and u guys complain about the flames? srsly wtf?, if u guys wana the game more hard, easly, TRY TO UNDERSTAND, READ OTHERS PLAYERS SUGESTIONS, FEEDBACK THEM, TELL DEVS FOR READ IT, AND DONE, NOT LIKE "oh no, flame are soo op, nerf again cleric only" srsly cleric in total this year and last year got nerfed 3/5 times, most of them cause buffs, now u guys wana nerf the flames? sure sure, wat i will say is this, devs nerf the flames, lets see how is the pvp than WITH THIS STATS ATM AND DAMAGE, and lets see if a cleric can hang easly in pvp, pvm is another history but even, SoD still hard even with flames. than dont come crying saying omg this damage is soo op, nerf the damage AGAIN, and also spamming in clerics, omg noob cleric gtfo here (thats atm the truth wen a cleric fails), i gave a sugest about damage and also heals, not even a feedback, u guys keep complaining about the game, u guys even keep saying the game is pay to win, do i care if Devs are lying? do u guys see me spaming IM for made my stuffs maxed? im not even maxed, i like leave/inative due bored, and i dont need any IM for get what i want. flames are easly to be destroyed, u guys are just more focused in the cleric than in them bonfires/flames, no teamwork, just spam spam spam.

the game is atm unbalanced since years, did anyone give gd sugests and tested them with DEVS AUTORIZATION OR W/E? NO, NO ONE DID, everyone is too lazy for read others suggestions, lazy to test it, lazy to everything, screw the game let like that, that damage, that heal, that crit, etc.

srsly look to that pic wich was posted in 1st post, a champ with 16 kills. do u guys even noticed that? the damage???, no one, and no it doesnt get kills from flames, kills is just in players more nthing, the flames atm can be killed like in 5 seconds, they cant be healed, some clerics might forget to put flames and dont see the gauge,

as i see pvm should, not should, is need to be also changed, too easy to do the DGs, and mobs rlly? lots of bots in spots, i also sugested somewere else in forum about the bot, no feedback also, Dgs is about, get tank (or any class that can lure), lure the mobs, there, last boss aoe them, wile cleric almost just flame.

now back to topic, if u guys wana nerf the flames, nerf everything, BALANCE EVERYTHING, SKILLS, STATS, WEAPONS, ARMOR, MOBS, EVERYTHING, DO LIKE ANY BOSS IS NEED A PARTY.

Boss sugestion: can just kill a boss with a party, no multi client support, 5 members, 1 tank. 1 cleric and 3 damages, without that, no one can atack a boss, drops, depends in them lvls, lvl like ultra high get 0 drop, wich means u will need a party of 5 members, the drop is, every party member get a item, or do like a roll item the one who gets high roll get item, changing free for all gets ban for a few hours for ninja (y is need that? there might be players who did more work than that and rage at the ninja dood wich made them pissed. about members, for kill a boss is need a certain lvl for kill it (example, pink to green (due drop) purple boss or like blue i thing or lower get instant kill, doesnt matters the lvl (example: all players lvl 20, woopie king is like 25, if one of the players have more lvl or less lvl, the player/party get wiped wich means the player/all the members die) resuming, is need enought lvl for can kill him, about the damage and boss def will depends in players equipment and skill set, high lvl or low lvl from boss get instant kill, if boss get like damaged from a high lvl player (example lvl 230 killing lvl 20 boss) boss take 0 DAMAGE and player get instant killed by boss due lvl, THAT'S A TRUE CHALLENGE. about the hirias tear quest, yeah after lvl 210 u can kill boss for the quest, wich means 210++ can kill any boss in orlo, doesnt matter the lvl in that situation, but like made the bosses like more challenge, cant be farmed without a party with 1 tank, 1 cleric and 3 damagers, but can be farmed with any party with anelast that roles (example: 3 partys with that roles (each 1 tank, 1 cleric and 3 damagers) killing trex boss, thats will depends in u guys, but the party one who gets like 1st hit will get the item wich means if u do 1st hit in boss the party will get the item, than roll for the item, the one who get high roll will get the item, hirias quest will count even if u didnt give 1st hit (u guys chose that)

Damage and heal: in this topic - http://forums.warppo...high/?p=1915387

the rest: will thing about it

about the rest well maybe gimme a pm or comment here in this post saying wich stuffs left

NOW PLZ FEEDBACK SAYING LIKE *some stuffs i agree but others no" or "there's one thing wrong wich will made mutch op", to the ones who says like "but others stuffs i dont agree" or like the 2nd one i write, feedback in wich part is wrong, srsly u guys dont even know how i wana THIS GAME KEEP ALIVE, IS ONE OF MY FAV GAMES, EVEN LIKE I DONT PLAY MUTCH NW ROSE,I WANA KEEP THIS GAME ALIVE

thnks for understand me, and btw if u guys get confuse well try to understand

Filip first of all I dont know why you raging. Second, you call people noobs that are probably play rose longer than you exist on planet earth and know TONS about this game.

Third,we are not complaining we are trying to balance the game and make it better.

As iMatt stated: : An Area Of Effect Heal with 9% hp / 3 seconds stackable up to 54% hp every three seconds ( without doing anything) ,that's clearly op no matter what your gonna say.

Lmao i dont understand why you making a big deal out of 2.5 seconds cooldown for summons.

Fast paced pvp is way more enjoyable than 20 mins of trying to kill a cleric.

​WOW is build on a competently different engine and scaling so any comparisons of DMG for that matter are a bit pointless.

Edited by LexLoyalty, 03 October 2014 - 12:40 PM.

This topic about Flames is so hot it will burn down ROSE to hell    :-)

In what way are hmm, crossbow scouts overpowered?

Well, over-powered? Yes,if u decided to nerf on the build where cleric extend their summons. No clue on crossbow scouts,haven't seen them much.
 

So you agree that 36% hp heal without using any skill acitvly / 3 seconds is balanced?

They aren't there standing and healing 36% hp all the time. Without skill activity? You still have to cast the summon flames skill. And, again they can be easily destroyed.

This automatically makes AoE / AoE classes essential/"over powered" compared to any other single target class.

No comment on this one here. They are overpowered too,not just flames. Mostly every classes is overpowered and at a level of overpowered balance. 

Raiders did this before and now every class can use the crit gem, so what's your point of this?

An example of how things going over their limits. Wasn't saying that they're overpowered. And if raiders doing this before,it will be more deadly now.

As if those are not strong enough to neutralise the damage changes?

See for yourself. How a cleric can be ganged up badly.

Your "over the limit" bla is nothing else than admitting that flames are over powered, means unbalanced.

My over the limit,every class undergoes that. 4 Flames are over-powered? And yet you're ignoring the fact that critical damage that citrine provide. Overpowered everywhere though.Not just the flames.
 

You repeat yourself - and they can even faster be recasted.

And destroyed right after casted?

That is not true, it requires 4 "seconds" in a period of 10 seconds.

I'm stating the fact that if you're going to summon 4 salamendar flames in a row. Not about 2 mana and 2 salamendar.

Exactly, you want Rose becoming the world of AoE and brianless AoE-healing only?

Isn't raiders the same too? Let brainless single targets till the game end. Just saying that you don't like flames healing 36%hp, go wreck them with aoe types then.If you don't want to play aoe class,stick with other single target classes. Going AoE class is optional.

Don't get me wrong - I don't want flames being removed, but this new "thing" of the majority of clerics (stacking plenty of flames with the new summon gauge gem/bug abuse) is just ridiciuluos.

Everybody loves the flames. No one wants it to be removed or get nerfed. They've already been nerfed before and now about to get nerfed again.

And again,An Area Of Effect Heal with 9% hp / 3 seconds stackable up to 54% hp every three seconds ( without doing anything)? They aren't there healing permanently and its not like they are indestructible. Without doing anything? You consider casting flames as doing nothing? You need to recast them if they faded away and it happens really fast. 

I'm done arguing with the walls here, things will just go over and over again. I've stated my opinions, no reason to argue now

Edited by LunaXavier, 03 October 2014 - 12:30 PM.

" And again,An Area Of Effect Heal with 9% hp / 3 seconds stackable up to 54% hp every three seconds ( without doing anything)? They aren't there healing permanently and its not like they are indestructible. Without doing anything? You consider casting flames as doing nothing? You need to recast them if they faded away and it happens really fast.  "

lmao if the attacker sees that you keep recasting your summons one after another he wont even bother destroying them in the first place.

My over the limit,every class undergoes that. 4 Flames are over-powered? And yet you're ignoring the fact that critical damage that citrine provide. Overpowered everywhere though.Not just the flames.
 

 

 

 

 

My thread isn't about critical damage, when I see a problem with it, I'll be sure to post it for you.  There are many ways around it, as there have always been,  a lot of it can be done with gear and stats.

Anywho... This thread is how I managed to heal 1.2m in a cd with only flames. I did no other healing, didn't use any of the 9-10 heals I had.  I buffed players.. and then just went to put down flames.  Hell, I wasn't even putting the flames down in good places. I was just kind of throwing them down.   You're telling me thats not overpowered?  Unless I'm getting stunned to hell, I can just keep summoning these flames with no throw back and my team just gets healed substantially? All with *one* skill that I can spam to my hearts content?  -.oNow imagine if I threw that gem in my backsheild.. You'd be looking at 2m+ in heals, most likely. 

We already have *four* party heals, where one used to be enough.  We don't need mana flames that heal more then those combined if they manage to live just a little bit.    We keep on getting more.  Clerics have been nerfed in the sense that there are no more hybrids, but we are insanely strong.  It makes the game boring.  Standing in one spot spamming flames and party heals does not make for a fun game.  People are more likely to stop playing a game if its too easy and they become bored of it. 

And for those crying about us wanting to nerf clerics, I want to point out that I *am* a cleric.  And I *only* play cleric as my primary class(unless I'm farming because my Cleric can't do that anymore.. which has nothing to do with not having or having flames. ) I'm not asking them to nerf my class, I'm asking them to fix it. I also think our block rate is a little op and charm is out of hand.. But I'll tackle those another day.