Defiler with new dna/... after patch of 20101110

P.S. Leash can ya change your avatar it makes me nervous ?

hmmm? what avatar i dont even.. http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/happy.gif

seems you started building off of my build. now with nukes lvl 1 you see you have extra points. Evasion is useless so I just put 2 more points into stun and few in bind. I took 1 in lith for same reason and I do use it sometimes for fun or last second save in js.

>> How are you so sure evasion is useless? Ever did tests for it or so?

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I'm going to test the efficiency of dna for Curse Effect and Blood Storm, with and without dna lv 1.. Both skills are at lv 1, and dna is also. When I hit lv 60 (soon) I'll test it with lv 1 skills too, without the dna to compare the results.
I'll keep you guys up to date how it went.. (Edit on 20101117: filled in my results, calculations and conclusion)

A 61 defi with no items equipped had, both skills at lv 1, and strengthened dna at lv 1:
- magic attack: 0-0
- int: 280
- mnd: 347
Attacks were done on lv 52 or 53 Wild Boars outside of Trifri:
Curse Effect
1) on 52 boar: 449 damage output
2) on 53 boar: 449 damage output
3) on 52 boar: 449 damage output
Blood Storm
1) on 52 boar: 193 x 6 damage output
2) on 52 boar: 193 x 2 damage output
3) on 53 boar: 193 x 6 damage output

Attacks where done again with equips on, so he had:
- magic attack: 151-158
- int: 379
- mnd: 402
Curse Effect
x) on boar: 662 damage output
Blood Storm
x) on boar: 404 x () damage output

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My own results at lv 60, with skills lv 1 and their dna lv 0, on same mobs:
No items equipped:
- magic attack: 0-0
- int: 270
- mnd: 335
- scad: 54
Curse Effect
1) 716 (crit)
2) 331
3) 331
4) 331
5) 331
Blood Storm
1) 160 every 2 sec
2) 157 every 2 sec
3) 157 every 2 sec
4) 157 every 2 sec

With all items equipped:
- magic attack: 226-242
- int: 497
- mnd: 414
- scad: 251
Curse Effect
1) 678
2) 683
3) 691
4) 1607 (crit)
5) 685
Blood Storm
1) 518 every 2 sec
2) 519 every 2 sec
3) 512 every 2 sec
4) 508 every 2 sec
5) 513 every 2 sec
6) 514 every 2 sec

Ok, now the calculations:

Damage on skill description for Curse Effect lv 1 = 200
Damage on dna description for Curse Effect dna lv 1 = +100

so the first lv 61 defi with skill lv 1 and dna lv 1, with mag.atk 0-0 and 280 int, magic mastery curse at +18%, should have a damage output from:
= Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
= (((200 + 100) x 1.18) + (280/3) + 0) x unknow % resist from mob
= 354 + 93 + 0 = 447
The damage output he got was 449, so seems the calculation is correct
---

Damage on skill description for Blood Storm lv 1 = 54 every 2 sec.
Damage on dna description for Blood Storm lv 1 = +27

= Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
= (((54 + 27) x 1.18) + (280/3) + 0) x unknow % resist from mob
= 95.58 + 93.33 + 0 = 188.91
The damage output he got was 193, so seems the calculation is correct again
---

Damage on skill description for Curse Effect lv 1 = 200
Damage on dna description for Curse Effect dna lv 0 = +0

My lv 60 defi with skill lv 1 and dna lv 0, with mag.atk 0-0 and 270 int, magic mastery curse at +17%, should have a damage output from:
= Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
= (((200 + 0) x 1.17) + (270/3) + 0) x unknow % resist from mob
= 234 + 90 + 0 = 324
The damage output I got was 331, so seems the calculation is correct
---

Damage on skill description for Blood Storm lv 1 = 54 every 2 sec.
Damage on dna description for Blood Storm lv 0 = +0

= Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
= (((54 + 0) x 1.17) + (270/3) + 0) x unknow % resist from mob
= 63 + 90 + 0 = 153
The damage output I got was 157, so seems the calculation is correct again

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Comparing the both results now:

Curse Effect
lv 0 dna: 331
lv 1 dna: 447
The +100 does around +100*1.18 more damage = around +118 damage, this is tested without equipment
With equipment we had different stats and attack:
myself: 678-691
other: 662

Blood Storm
lv 0 dna: 157
lv 1 dna: 193
The +27 does around +27*1.18 more damage = around +32 damage, this is tested without equipment (note the difference between both chars is 10 int, which also gives +3 damage difference on top of it)
With equipment we had different stats and attack:
myself: 508-519
other: 404

Conclusion: He spended 2 dna points on those skills, and doesn't hit harder than me around the same level. His magic attack is only 151-158 and mine is 226-242, his INT is 379 and my INT is 497. I know this is because of my reinforcements, and that he would have a higher damage output if we had the same mag.atk and INT value, but..
At this lowest level the extra dna might seem worth it, but at higher level, that +100 damage from the dna for curse effect, and that +27 damage from the dna for Blood Storm, could better be used in some other dna, like for example a longer duration of Blood Storm.

Thx for teaching me how to calculate this out, seems I've done good not taking this dna, and seems I've to work more on my gear, I might start with enchanting it to get some more crits ;-)

Greetz,
Wannabegooddefi

Edited by sias, 16 November 2010 - 04:12 PM.

Yes sir I am very sure and I do not understand the point of your testing.

Evasion does work...but you need a lot to even see a difference. I had my SR at like 15k and could tell a diffence if I let mobs hit me compared to if I didn't have the evasion and let them hit me. But honestly...how often you you just stand there and let mobs hit you? Kill them and be done with it. Enchanting with evasion is less effective then crit/dmg and increasing your dmg output.

Im speaking pvp wise.

It does work pvpwise too...not enough to be worth it but it did save my SR from dieing after scud quite a few times.

not enough to be worth it

i play the evasion card because i cant cast my skills fast enough nor can i get enough hp to survive the pewpew/dash/stealth and what ever meanies hunt out defilers.
I got 10k evasion at the moment just through skills and no eva enchants (except from the FoC gear) and it does help when you see sins fail to stun you and miss their next few attacks. I gues evasion depends on what gear you have available. I wonder if its more effective to build up defense and HP or evasion for defilers...

evasion doesn't affect their stuns, only their AA attacks. And you'd be better off with defense. Like from an svs costume. But then again it really won't matter against a sin worth a damn. In 65 foc there isn't a single defiler that will live my scud...even high HP ones like Arizon and triple potting.

Yes sir I am very sure and I do not understand the point of your testing.

To know if dna lv 1 for a stronger Curse Effect and the dna lv 1 for a stronger Blood Storm is worth it or not.. Simple as that.

To know if dna lv 1 for a stronger Curse Effect and the dna lv 1 for a stronger Blood Storm is worth it or not.. Simple as that.

I dont understand because you can simply calculate that. (Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
.RR being the amount of dmg u deal from resis reduct. If cap then .20 aka 1/5 dealt.

If you were to take 1 CE is just for filler purposes I would say. Str blood is not even an option with the better DNA available. lvl is about +30 I believe and that gets passive boost. However is not huge difference maker. lvl 10 is +60 which is also small but i do like to think of things in terms of 3-3 cruse dmg enchants.

i play the evasion card because i cant cast my skills fast enough nor can i get enough hp to survive the pewpew/dash/stealth and what ever meanies hunt out defilers.
I got 10k evasion at the moment just through skills and no eva enchants (except from the FoC gear) and it does help when you see sins fail to stun you and miss their next few attacks. I gues evasion depends on what gear you have available. I wonder if its more effective to build up defense and HP or evasion for defilers...

Evasion is a waste to invest in. Also doesnt save you from casters** Any melee attacking you is likely to kill you anyway regardless of extra miss or two. Just think
Zerk
Commie
Sin
SR
Ranger

Perhaps ranger miss twice and you live. Perhaps not. Then again you dont necessarily need eva buff to see that happen.

Edited by Syre, 13 November 2010 - 09:25 PM.

try lvl 10 then :3

Hitted 68 with it,its on lvl 7 now if im not mistaken,2.9k crit on PD mobs

Hitted 68 with it,its on lvl 7 now if im not mistaken,2.9k crit on PD mobs

I only haz a 4.2k crit ;x

I only haz a 4.2k crit ;x

I think lvl 77must have something to do with it, just sayin....

I think lvl 77must have something to do with it, just sayin....

ya think

I'm almost curious what mine would be. Almost.

Nahhhh you are under a spell of confusion wuuuuuuh

I dont understand because you can simply calculate that. (Add dmg to skill + 20% boost + int dmg + magic dmg)x .RR
.RR being the amount of dmg u deal from resis reduct. If cap then .20 aka 1/5 dealt.

If you were to take 1 CE is just for filler purposes I would say. Str blood is not even an option with the better DNA available. lvl is about +30 I believe and that gets passive boost. However is not huge difference maker. lvl 10 is +60 which is also small but i do like to think of things in terms of 3-3 cruse dmg enchants.

Ok, can you talk in english now? There are only a "few" things I don't understand what you are typing as calculation.. ahum.. Everything I mean
I posted some damage output numbers a few posts earlier.. Maybe you can try to explain it with those numbers also.. Like a real calculation, that would make things a lot easier.
- ".RR" = 0.ResistReduction as in %curse.resist or ??
- "20% boost" = magic mastery (curse) skill? If so, then why is it added before we get to the magic damage? Thought all my damage was curse..
- "int dmg" = int value?
- "magic dmg" = min./max. magic damage?
- "add dmg to skill" = fixed amount of dna description damage + fixed damage you see at skill description?
- "If cap then .20 aka 1/5 dealt" = ??
- And also, Curse effect seems to hit always the same amount of damage, just like Blood storm. But that isn't the case for Bloody Arrow or Rake Nail for example.. How to know when they vary?

Greetz,
Wannabegooddefi

Edited by sias, 14 November 2010 - 06:38 PM.

THREAD HIJACK!

Anyways, 1 point of aoe vamp touch dna fixes the skill so it hits? or how many dna points are required?

Nah, the skill is still broken at times.. It doesn't miss or hit 0, but just does nothing at times.. Kinda lame..
It does hit more now than before tho, but I've no idea if that's just me thinking it, or really an improvement.

Nah, the skill is still broken at times.. It doesn't miss or hit 0, but just does nothing at times.. Kinda lame..
It does hit more now than before tho, but I've no idea if that's just me thinking it, or really an improvement.

that is extremely sucky. Used to be with vamp touch 1 and some pots I could grind for 15-30 minutes before needing to sit (barring Terms of Service fails ofcourse; those = insta sit, pray for survival), now its like 5-10 minutes ((.

Ok, can you talk in english now? There are only a "few" things I don't understand what you are typing as calculation.. ahum.. Everything I mean
I posted some damage output numbers a few posts earlier.. Maybe you can try to explain it with those numbers also.. Like a real calculation, that would make things a lot easier.
- ".RR" = 0.ResistReduction as in %curse.resist or ??
- "20% boost" = magic mastery (curse) skill? If so, then why is it added before we get to the magic damage? Thought all my damage was curse..
- "int dmg" = int value?
- "magic dmg" = min./max. magic damage?
- "add dmg to skill" = fixed amount of dna description damage + fixed damage you see at skill description?
- "If cap then .20 aka 1/5 dealt" = ??
- And also, Curse effect seems to hit always the same amount of damage, just like Blood storm. But that isn't the case for Bloody Arrow or Rake Nail for example.. How to know when they vary?

Greetz,
Wannabegooddefi

Magic damage is the min max that you see when you open character screen.
20% boost to all curse dmg comes from the passive skill
Int dmg comes from the int stat. Every 3 int is 1 magic dmg.
There is another stat called skill critical addional damage. This is raw damage added onto an attack when it crits, it is not reduced by resistance.
If someone has cap curse resistance then they have 80% resistance. Meaning on a non crit attack 80% of the damage is subtracted. They will receive 20% which as a decimal is .20 or a fraction 1/5.

If you have
100 magic dmg
300 int
Passive 20%
200 scad

and use a skill with 100 curse power then

100 curse dmg x 1.2 = 120 curse power
120 + 100 magic damage = 220 dmg
220 dmg + 300 int = 320 dmg

You will hit someone with 0% resistance for 320 dmg with a non crit. With a crit 320x2 + 200 scad = 840 damage on a crit.

On someone with 80% resistance
320 x 1/5 = 64 dmg dealt on a non crit

on a crit
64 x 2 + 200 scad = 328

Magic damage is the min max that you see when you open character screen.
20% boost to all curse dmg comes from the passive skill
Int dmg comes from the int stat. Every 3 int is 1 magic dmg.
There is another stat called skill critical addional damage. This is raw damage added onto an attack when it crits, it is not reduced by resistance.
If someone has cap curse resistance then they have 80% resistance. Meaning on a non crit attack 80% of the damage is subtracted. They will receive 20% which as a decimal is .20 or a fraction 1/5.

If you have
100 magic dmg
300 int
Passive 20%
200 scad

and use a skill with 100 curse power then

100 curse dmg x 1.2 = 120 curse power
120 + 100 magic damage = 220 dmg
220 dmg + 300 int = 320 dmg

You will hit someone with 0% resistance for 320 dmg with a non crit. With a crit 320x2 + 200 scad = 840 damage on a crit.

On someone with 80% resistance
320 x 1/5 = 64 dmg dealt on a non crit

on a crit
64 x 2 + 200 scad = 328

Thanks a lot.. This is very understandable

The dna damage at strengthening skills, are counted above the skill damage I suppose then? = what I think
Or at the total damage? = what I don't think

Just want to be sure.. and thx again!

Greetz,
Wannabegooddefi

DNA dmg is counted into initial curse dmg before the passive.

DNA dmg is counted into initial curse dmg before the passive.

Thank you for confirming my thoughts.

Is there anything else I should know about Defilers?
Oh, there is one more thing I still don't know.. How does the physical defense work? I mean, I now know how magic resistance works, but I've no idea yet about physical defense..

Greezt,
Wannabegooddefi

Edited by sias, 15 November 2010 - 03:09 PM.