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#26 goldfish34

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:55 AM

 

1st =/


 

 

 

Technically, I'm the 1st. ;)

 

 

Only if you go by programmer logic, not common logic. :)
 

 

Not really, common logic is henry is the first to answer. Your logic is you're the first, the number one, god... and that just shows how you are.


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#27 Feuer

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 06:39 AM

I think he meant he has the first post in the thread... the OP always has the first post... 

 

@The longi reduction;

I'm pretty sure Leonis nerf'd it since I recently resigned as a rep, in order to get me ...frustrated enough to stay a bit longer to fix this MASSIVE error.... just sayin.


Edited by Feuer, 12 December 2014 - 06:41 AM.

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#28 Leonis

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 09:43 AM

goldfish34, a good try to insult and depreciate me. But a joke is a joke all the same. Sorry you didn't get the humor.

 

Regarding Longinus' Strike, it had too high a static value that could be enhanced by charm, to the point you negate a player's attack power entirely. This wasn't an intention of the skill, so we've returned it to match the skill's natural maximum static value, and let the benefit be the extra 10% from the natural skill, which is a total of 15% Attack Power down. The skills aren't intended to be end all skills, just benefits over the normal selections, to help customize your build, not be the single winning skill. Additionally, it is optional, so if you don't want it, don't get it. A build shouldn't be designed around a single skill.

 

And the issue was brought up by a class rep to begin with.


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#29 OshOsh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 10:09 AM

And the issue was brought up by a class rep to begin with.

 

Now i guess i understand what ChampPower is trying to fight for all this while :heh:

 

Would there be PVP sheild throw  or PVP Trap Arrow nerf coming soon?

1 strike for those skill with high charm ,practically made me 0 mspeed. :p_swt:


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#30 Leonis

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 11:02 AM

Now i guess i understand what ChampPower is trying to fight for all this while :heh:

 

Would there be PVP sheild throw  or PVP Trap Arrow nerf coming soon?

1 strike for those skill with high charm ,practically made me 0 mspeed. :p_swt:

There's surprisingly more balancing going on with Pegasus than just the Scout class, if anyone would care to check it out and test with us. Nothing is final on Pegasus, though we're getting close too making the call, because feedback is smoothing out as far as the reps discussions go. There are still some other things we're intending to work on before it goes to the live server, while we continue efforts to finish the next dungeon.


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#31 Feuer

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:07 PM

There was no reason for the longi nerf, spear champs were helpless even with that, now they're just a joke. 

 

I am curious though who of the 3 champion representatives were consulted about it though, cause I wasn't. and from the sound of it neither was Phish. 


Edited by VModCupcake, 13 December 2014 - 09:02 AM.

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#32 pdfisher

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 03:38 PM

I certainly wasn't. This came as a total surprise to me. I had never heard one single complaint about this skill.


You know, I have played many MMOs, and this is the ONLY one, where everyone plays only the class that they feel is the strongest. Why is that? Is it perhaps because those other games have figured out how to properly balance the classes? This whole thing saddens me, because now I guess Spear Champ will disappear, as no one will want to bother with it.

Edited by VModCupcake, 12 December 2014 - 10:27 PM.

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#33 Leonis

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:45 PM

Spear champ won't disappear, we just need to figure out a better balance where they're not able to negate a target's attack power so heavily. With a mild setting, you could easily half a target's attack power, which is far more powerful than what the intention was behind the PvP version.


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#34 EndlessDream25

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:51 PM

Actually the pvp longinus strike cant half an enemies ap. A full spear charm (not a mild setting) wtih all charm items 30 can cut off 800 ap by most. If u got 2k ap-800=1200. So basically its not half.

 

In comparison to axe and 2h champ, spears do pale in comparison. 2h and axe are more appealing than spears hence the spears are often less looked but then again so as the case for cannon borgs and artis which are the least played and can be called dead because other classes are much more appealing than them


Edited by EndlessDream25, 12 December 2014 - 04:55 PM.

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#35 Leonis

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:54 PM

Actually the pvp longinus strike cant half an enemies ap. A full spear charm wtih all charm items 30 can cut off 800 ap by most. If u got 2k ap-800=1200. So basically its not half.

 

In comparison to axe and 2h champ, spears do pale in comparison. 2h and axe are more appealing than spears hence the spears are often less looked but then again so as the case for cannon borgs and artis which are the least played and can be called dead because other classes are much more appealing than them

 

I understand you're taking it from the viewpoint of a level 230, which I am not. I have to consider scale of skill use, to which the application was too powerful. I understand the spear tree is something to be desired, but that's something we will be working on. Until then, a skill that's so highly utilized that by changing just this one effect, goes to show and prove that there was simply too much reliance on it and that is not how a tree should be. It should be a combination of skills, not one.
 


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#36 EndlessDream25

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:01 PM

I understand you're taking it from the viewpoint of a level 230, which I am not. I have to consider scale of skill use, to which the application was too powerful. I understand the spear tree is something to be desired, but that's something we will be working on. Until then, a skill that's so highly utilized that by changing just this one effect, goes to show and prove that there was simply too much reliance on it and that is not how a tree should be. It should be a combination of skills, not one.
 

It is highly utilized because it is the only thing that a spear champ can offer in a 1 v 1 and a spear champ is a rare breed and if they make a spear champ theyre highly utilizing aoes and not the longinus. Almost all champ go 2h and axe and with this, im sure it only added fuel to the fire that they avoid spear

 

But I'm sure you guys probably have thought this through, thank you for the hardwork and I'm sure you guys have plans later on for the future about this


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#37 WorldDestroyerxx

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 05:15 PM

Really? nerf on the longinus strike? High in value? What about those duals? Those accu down making u lose 1k accu, aspeed down bugging kings and def down coupled with the stacking def down not to mention having evasive granting 100 prcnt dodge and def, mspeed debuff too reducing it to 0. Arent those numbers high?? and u pick the spear longinus to change?

 

The way I see it with that logic, duals are posing more problems than spears


Edited by WorldDestroyerxx, 12 December 2014 - 05:19 PM.

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#38 pdfisher

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 06:02 PM

This still makes no sense. A Dual Swords raider with high charm, can completely stop a person, but that doesn't get nerfed. But you reduce this skill drastically. Sorry Leo, I can't agree with you on this one.


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#39 maldini

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 06:12 PM

Skill balance debates again?
As I always say, u can never balance it even given another 10 years!

For God sake, channel ur resources to the right place since u keep complaining abt the lack of resources in ur team.
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#40 ganjen

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 07:54 PM

Hehehehe can you please nerf dual raiders"s debuff , and katar raiders"s crit down, and the stack. And also can you remove cleric buff they are too powerfull, can you reduce the skill power on impact arrow. Too powerfull, can you remove mage"s cold snap cause its -200% mspeed and also champs mute and its anti stun, also launcher bourgs aoe hurts so bad, and gun bourg aspeed , and maybe artisan" s skill to craft . Hahahahahahaah please make up your mind people ...

This still makes no sense. A Dual Swords raider with high charm, can completely stop a person, but that doesn't get nerfed. But you reduce this skill drastically. Sorry Leo, I can't agree with you on this one.

as said before, once a certain class become populer, the dev team will nerf it .... So people will play another class and so on and so on. It makes the game lack of variety of the game ........ Sorry LEO can't agree with you on this one too

Edited by VModCupcake, 12 December 2014 - 10:27 PM.

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#41 OshOsh

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 07:59 PM

I cant really see the use full part of getting all those passive,yet i havent seen an aoe champ kill in 1 v 1 situation.the difference is an auto spear champ was able to kill and last longer due to the longinus strike even tho there is no protection of a critical attack as a defense.

I know its a game,not sure if im being childish of feeling sulky like i wanted to sell all my bound able gear. :p_sad:


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#42 Feuer

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 10:00 PM

as said before, once a certain class become populer, the dev team will nerf it .... So people will play another class and so on and so on. It makes the game lack of variety of the game ........ Sorry LEO can't agree with you on this one too

 

yeah cause spear champs were popular... lol.


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#43 GoldenAura

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 12:58 AM

Hey Leonis I just want to ask when will approximately Pegasus be done and be patched to the real client?

 


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#44 OshOsh

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 01:53 AM

theres alot of spear champ ingame,but there is only a few that grace on 1 v 1 auto attacking combat.

 

before i made my champ i consulted Jeremy and Titanhammer they are reliable on their champ advice,wish we could know who made the suggestion for the nerf,does 1 class rep opinion is enough for consideration or its a group decision?

 


Edited by OshOsh, 13 December 2014 - 02:49 AM.

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#45 MidnightSmurf

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 02:16 AM

I thought I was clear as day of what I meant, I was somewhat riddiculing the system as they clearly hadn't spoken to 'some' of the Champion reps. To clearify further I had no idea about this either - I would rather see dual raiders debuffs nerf'd ;)

The change makes no sense to me.

 

*This got edited by a mod, if anyone think it looks out of place*

This last edit was by me cause I thought it looked like a very odd comment by myself. I wish I had been given a notice of that my post had been edited.


Edited by MidnightSmurf, 13 December 2014 - 09:21 AM.

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#46 goldfish34

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:48 AM

Skill balance debates again?
As I always say, u can never balance it even given another 10 years!

For God sake, channel ur resources to the right place since u keep complaining abt the lack of resources in ur team.

 

well said


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#47 Feuer

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 04:15 AM

 

The change makes no sense to me. Maybe we're in agreement on that little point :o If that is at all possible.

 

Making no sense, yes I can agree on that. 


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#48 jerremy

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 06:04 AM

PvP longinus should be changed to 25%+50 honestly. It'll still scale very well on cha while not being as opressive against low AP classes.


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#49 Feuer

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 06:35 AM

Not a bad number jerr. And since you're not a Champion rep you'll probly be taken to word on it and it'll jsut get patched in last minute without the need for testing ^^. [but no seriously those numbers are decent, I could deal with that] 

Edit: It also still is a long way from having the spears be functionally unique or competitive even if the skill is fixed. It'll just put them back to the laughable state they were before the reduction. 


Edited by Feuer, 13 December 2014 - 06:36 AM.

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#50 MidnightSmurf

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 09:18 AM

Making no sense, yes I can agree on that. 

 

Excellent, this is progress.

 

PvP longinus should be changed to 25%+50 honestly. It'll still scale very well on cha while not being as opressive against low AP classes.

 

As often when they do something they tend to go a bit overboard, hope they go back a little bit at least. Also hope that Spear Champs get some kind of update other then this change. Having so many AoE's that you don't have enough time to use them gets boring eventually.


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