The present FS cleric discussion

AOE damage isn't really the problem, the real problem behind aoers like mages is the stun aoe skills that have a really high chance of completely immobilizing the entire team for 3 seconds. Drop a few aoes following this stun and the other team is pretty much dead. This 3 seconds duration cuts all the incoming heals and damage from the opposing team completely. With no heals due to stun, the team couldn't receive a single heal and hence died. Worst cases when 2-3 mages cast this Thunder Storm PvP skill consecutively, causing aoe chain stuns, which is really broken. AoE aren't OP, its the stun that is op. If a cleric can keep up the consistent heals, aoes wont be a problem. Stuns play an important role deciding matches. Although I think something should be done to decrease the chance of stun chains, maybe like a automatic stun stacking skill that gives you extra stun resistance when there are consecutive stuns, like the stacking skill "rest" for sleep chains.

 

AoE and DPS. AoEs are strong, but its not that easy to cast aoes. Aoe classes kiss the ground more than dps. Ofc aoe classes do waaaay more damage than a single hitter. but not always. Mages are mostly seen at the top of the scoreboard or at the bottom of the scoreboard. Its either they get the most points or lowest points depending on the game. The aoes are strong yes but these classes dont have any defense mechanisms in exchange for their high damage output. If they got nerf in the fields they are specialized at, they will be a nobody,pretty much useless like a visitor.

 

Nerf on mage's aoes is pretty much saying like nerf the dodge on raiders, which is their specialty. 

That is actually a great idea! A passive that reduce the chance to get stun chain (just as the sleep) that way skill timing will become even more crucial, and could really help out for stun aoes as well as for those moments when u get ambush by 4 katars that just spam stun on you o; Nice going there

I tried to explain myself, you completly miss my points... this, I'm afraid, cannot be helped. Maybe when you'll grow up... who knows...

It s really not about you agreeing or desagreeing with whatever I can say, it s about you being on your little crusade, throwing insults to me while you are obviously completly unable to even start to understand what kind of global visions there is behind my suggestions.

 

For your info : complains about how AOEs are completly dominating the PvM scene are around since like.. 7 or 8 years? it does ofc have an impact on PvP too and we can see it on a daily basis, and trying to bring solutions to this long time ROSE design failure as nothing to do with crying. Typical teenager answer if you ask me.

Going off topic,Can you play a solo cleric and prove how "Clerics are quite tanky" as you just stated?

AOE damage isn't really the problem, the real problem behind aoers like mages is the stun aoe skills that have a really high chance of completely immobilizing the entire team for 3 seconds. Drop a few aoes following this stun and the other team is pretty much dead. This 3 seconds duration cuts all the incoming heals and damage from the opposing team completely. With no heals due to stun, the team couldn't receive a single heal and hence died. Worst cases when 2-3 mages cast this Thunder Storm PvP skill consecutively, causing aoe chain stuns, which is really broken. AoE aren't OP, its the stun that is op. If a cleric can keep up the consistent heals, aoes wont be a problem. Stuns play an important role deciding matches. Although I think something should be done to decrease the chance of stun chains, maybe like a automatic stun stacking skill that gives you extra stun resistance when there are consecutive stuns, like the stacking skill "rest" for sleep chains.

 

AoE and DPS. AoEs are strong, but its not that easy to cast aoes. Aoe classes kiss the ground more than dps. Ofc aoe classes do waaaay more damage than a single hitter. but not always. Mages are mostly seen at the top of the scoreboard or at the bottom of the scoreboard. Its either they get the most points or lowest points depending on the game. The aoes are strong yes but these classes dont have any defense mechanisms in exchange for their high damage output. If they got nerf in the fields they are specialized at, they will be a nobody,pretty much useless like a visitor.

 

Nerf on mage's aoes is pretty much saying like nerf the dodge on raiders, which is their specialty. 

You are talking specifically about Mages there. While I do agree the main problem concerning them would be more about their CCs ability than their damage, I do have to point out that Mages do also have hard hitting single target skills.

You are also only specifically talking about PvP, and more precisely AA, but this is not the only aspect to consider, ROSE as a game isn't limited to 1 PvP game arena mode.

As for Raider's dodge, it has been nerfed over and over again, to a point where, I agree Raiders should be dodge specialist, but, in PvP at least, unless you are considering katar vs katar as being relevant (being a very low acc class spec) Dodge is crap.

And to go back on topic, that s precisely why if I was to give advice on how a cleric can get more tanky, I wouldn't say to go for dodge substats, but to go for crit subs and stats, in order to be less locked and be able to cast more reliably their heals.

You do understand what I m saying tho, and that is already smthing. We can simply agree to desagree.

As for Raider's dodge, it has been nerfed over and over again, to a point where, I agree Raiders should be dodge specialist, but, in PvP at least, unless you are considering katar vs katar as being relevant (being a very low acc class spec) Dodge is crap.

Lol? Raiders' dodge nerf over and over again? What is this nonsense? Raiders are given 25% extra dodge from glorious set. You've gotta be kidding me.

 

 

And to go back on topic, that s precisely why if I was to give advice on how a cleric can get more tanky, I wouldn't say to go for dodge substats, but to go for crit subs and stats, in order to be less locked and be able to cast more reliably their heals.

Fail build, you should try this build yourself first before stating or suggesting someone how to do this. Definitely a fail build, you can try to prove it

 

 

You do understand what I m saying tho, and that is already smthing. We can simply agree to desagree.

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 02:02 PM.

Going off topic,Can you play a solo cleric and prove how "Clerics are quite tanky" as you just stated?

Do I really have to go and prove the obvious? Clerics are probably the 2nd most tanky class after knights. Well, I agree... Knights are very far in front. But a cleric using her self heals can sustain herself "solo" way better than any other classes could by just using pots.

Do you seriously believe this is not the case? o.O

Edit : to answer your other posts.

Yes, Dodge has been nerfed over and over again, this is no nonsense, this is a reality, you are welcomed to get more knowledge on this subject before uying such words as nonsense.

As for crit sub being a fail build, seeing how defense and m def have an horrible scaling... the 2 only viable sub stats I see when it comes to "being more tanky" are crit, or mvt speed, knowing than most clerics will go for charm as primary sub to sustain higher heals. Mvt speed being kinda offtopic tho, as technically, it will not make you be tankier... but can allow you to be more mobile and try to kite more damage. If you believe it s not accurate, and that those options are pure failure... well, it s all a matter of opinions.

Edited by CharasX, 24 June 2015 - 02:11 PM.

Do I really have to go and prove the obvious? Clerics are probably the 2nd most tanky class after knights. Well, I agree... Knights are very far in front. But a cleric using her self heals can sustain herself "solo" way better than any other classes could by just using pots.

Do you seriously believe this is not the case? o.O

No not really. Stun and you're dead. Not to mention about the mp problems you will be facing after using revive skills. You should play cleric,i'm serious. 

Cleric class gameplay is not as simple as any other classes. Too much complexity. Only clerics can understand.

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 02:11 PM.

So as far as I saw there are quite a few nice suggestions that could help the FS function better (since thread is starting to get out of hand could be good to remind all the past suggestions) o;

1.  Over all damage reduction (and then and only then a possible nerf on heals to accomodate to the damage nerf)
2.  Addittion of a proper mspeed passive for clerics without requiring to invest even more SP 
3.  General nerf in all buffs 
4.  Making skill power affect heals as well so that luminous set could be used by a FS 
5.  AA possible Buff station (sort of like on the old days when in UW you had ur own buffer and didnt have to wait for the cleric to die to get buffs again)
6.  Stun Resistance passive that works just as sleep
7.  In terms of summons, I suggested an increase on the flames range to when they dissapear not on their aoe healing effect, that would  allow the cleric to move around
8.  For the leveling FS clerics feuer suggested: Change 'Enchanted" Wand weapons from mp consume + max mp, to mp consume + heal power and to make it so it only takes level 1 or 2 of a heal before it unlocks the next one, instead of the current skill level 3. Place the heal power passive in the support tree instead of the cleric tree.

You are talking specifically about Mages there. While I do agree the main problem concerning them would be more about their CCs ability than their damage, I do have to point out that Mages do also have hard hitting single target skills.

You are also only specifically talking about PvP, and more precisely AA, but this is not the only aspect to consider, ROSE as a game isn't limited to 1 PvP game arena mode.

The thing is, both CD and AA almost work the same way as a PvP arena stage. The only difference with CD and AA is CD is much smaller and requires less strategy thinking than AA.

 

DP on the other hand is a whole new different PvP arena game which only has 5 people in it. So aoes don't really matter much at all.

As for Raider's dodge, it has been nerfed over and over again, to a point where, I agree Raiders should be dodge specialist, but, in PvP at least, unless you are considering katar vs katar as being relevant (being a very low acc class spec) Dodge is crap.

Really? When? I didn't actually notice this .-.

And to go back on topic, that s precisely why if I was to give advice on how a cleric can get more tanky, I wouldn't say to go for dodge substats, but to go for crit subs and stats, in order to be less locked and be able to cast more reliably their heals.

Even so, katars raiders has "critical weakness" so even if you get some sen to compensate less locking, the crit weakness will kick in and the crit rate would mean nothing again.

Truely back on THREAD topic.

The idea of Cleric having that burst of tankability, WITH the potentials of how they can get atm is kinda broken. You see, last time clerics magic tool built, is crazy tanky. They can tank like 3-4 raiders hitting them for a few secs - 1 min i think. And being a PvP player, every second matter. 5 sec of burst tank + what clerics can do now would only bring back those ages one way or another.

AOE damage based classes are so few only. Knights, champs (specifically 2 hand and spears but more to spears), dual raiders and mages. Dealer class barely has many aoes as well as katar class builds. If you take away their pure potential and their purpose of the class itself, then it would be like diminishing the population of that certain class, just like how now you never see a xbow scout in PvP arenas, or dungeon, or practically the entire game. So there's almost no point in nerfing their damage by so much despite having no limits to their aoe other than the range of the aoe radius. So if you don't wanna die within that radius, kill it or move away far enough (easier said than done but it is how it can be avoided).

Guys, you are moving from cleric discussion to raiders, and mages. Please try to stick to a clean discussion. I'm pretty sure that's what bendesmom would want. Arguing is fine since its a discussion, but keep it clean and "insult free"

*Edit*

What luna said is correct. It is more complex in playing an FS then you think it is. I'm not saying its the most complex class, i don't know such a thing as "most complex" as every class is complex in its own personal view and value. Basically its is a relative term.

Because how i see it, all classes have their certain complexity to it. If you view it from one point that it is easy, it is not. To take clerics in the view. FS clerics needs both high charm and high defence, but that can't be done at once, and there can't be both in one place. Its one or the other. Then heals, there's stacks to them you have to consider as well as what that heal do to the next one, and how it makes survivability better for that certain amount of time for everyone as well as the cleric itself.

5 single heals in total, and you have to consider which is the 1st one you cast and which would do better. This is why clerics are also complex in their own sense. Now having a raider as well, i also know how complex that is. So don't try to bring how complex it is for clerics compared to raiders.

Like i said, all class builds regardless of subclasses, are complex in their own sense. No class is truly "that easy" to build.

Edited by KatsuraKujo, 24 June 2015 - 02:26 PM.

No not really. Stun and you're dead. Not to mention about the mp problems you will be facing after using revive skills. You should play cleric,i'm serious. 

Cleric class gameplay is not as simple as any other classes. Too much complexity. Only clerics can understand.

Well, wouldn't any other classes apart from Knights die too?

There is nothing complexe to understand really, skills are skills. It s just that, ROSE clerics are used to completly carry their team... but in a "balanced game" they would only be there to support it. I would wish this version of ROSE to reach once again the "Balanced" state it once had, with enought time, it might happen, or not ;p

Well, wouldn't any other classes apart from Knights die too?

 

There is nothing complexe to understand really, skills are skills. It s just that, ROSE clerics are used to completly carry their team... but in a "balanced game" they would only be there to support it. I would wish this version of ROSE to reach once again the "Balanced" state it once had, with enought time, it might happen, or not ;p

They probably died because clerics couldnt support well enough, clerics couldn't perform the job they need to do, provide support for the team, which is why the purpose of this whole discussion is going for.. so chill, all for rose

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 02:23 PM.

As for Raider's dodge, it has been nerfed over and over again, to a point where, I agree Raiders should be dodge specialist, but, in PvP at least, unless you are considering katar vs katar as being relevant (being a very low acc class spec) Dodge is crap.

 

And to go back on topic, that s precisely why if I was to give advice on how a cleric can get more tanky, I wouldn't say to go for dodge substats, but to go for crit subs and stats, in order to be less locked and be able to cast more reliably their heals.

 

raider's dodge has been nerfed? seriously? that so called "nerf" did absolutely nothing to katars, i hardly even notice it and can still reach 5k dodge without even trying or sacrificing my crit...in terms of katar vs katar, its easier to hit through that dodge due to the high atk spd...

that cleric build tho...so pro...ye man, ima go rock crit stats and tanzanite to get my crit to maybe 1-1.2k! Lets be real, that wont do anything when raiders have 200+ atk spd and have crit weakness stacks. The stun resist stacks were the only reasonable suggestion ive read so far

that cleric build tho...so pro...ye man, ima go rock crit stats and tanzanite to get my crit to maybe 1-1.2k! Lets be real, that wont do anything when raiders have 200+ atk spd and have crit weakness stacks. The stun resist stacks were the only reasonable suggestion ive read so far

A stone that resist all incoming crits lool. But no heals no buffs possibly no mp regen also xD

Edit: oh wait, even with that crit, its too low to stop raider's crit lock -_-'

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 02:31 PM.

bumping reminder to read my post on the edited part. Just saying

raider's dodge has been nerfed? seriously? that so called "nerf" did absolutely nothing to katars, i hardly even notice it and can still reach 5k dodge without even trying or sacrificing my crit...in terms of katar vs katar, its easier to hit through that dodge due to the high atk spd...

 

that cleric build tho...so pro...ye man, ima go rock crit stats and tanzanite to get my crit to maybe 1-1.2k! Lets be real, that wont do anything when raiders have 200+ atk spd and have crit weakness stacks. The stun resist stacks were the only reasonable suggestion ive read so far

There were more reasonable suggestions u nab ¬¬ 

And yeah baby lets make a cleric with "insane critical" no mp no heals and no decent buffs! YEEEAH WORK THAT!

Edited by carlosrose, 24 June 2015 - 02:52 PM.

There were more reasonable suggestions u nab ¬¬ 

 

damn u got me...too lazy to go through the whole thread ;D

raider's dodge has been nerfed? seriously? that so called "nerf" did absolutely nothing to katars, i hardly even notice it and can still reach 5k dodge without even trying or sacrificing my crit...in terms of katar vs katar, its easier to hit through that dodge due to the high atk spd...

 

that cleric build tho...so pro...ye man, ima go rock crit stats and tanzanite to get my crit to maybe 1-1.2k! Lets be real, that wont do anything when raiders have 200+ atk spd and have crit weakness stacks. The stun resist stacks were the only reasonable suggestion ive read so far

Raiders passive giving dodge has been nerfed, and accuracy down from both katars and duals got massively nerfed. It s cool that you reach 5k dodge and all, but very useless, unless as I said, you are part of those few mad raiders who believe everything that counts is their lil "raider vs raider" fights. 

I'm not saying it's a pro build, but as far as "tanking" goes, this is the alternative giving the most return, and ofc, I ve never said anything about getting Tanzanites. I take it as a lame attempt to defend ur buddies, thought you would know better.

Raiders passive giving dodge has been nerfed, and accuracy down from both katars and duals got massively nerfed. It s cool that you reach 5k dodge and all, but very useless, unless as I said, you are part of those few mad raiders who believe everything that counts is their lil "raider vs raider" fights. 

 

I'm not saying it's a pro build, but as far as "tanking" goes, this is the alternative giving the most return, and ofc, I ve never said anything about getting Tanzanites. I take it as a lame attempt to defend ur buddies, thought you would know better.

Honestly you're going off topic yourself. Also i mentioned resist in "insulting" each other. You should know better. I'm not going to talk about raiders here as i find it not a place to tell about in my POV. So i see that everyone here please refrain from that.

rofl i dont even care about 1v1..its all about war and AA

yes, the dodge was nerfed but i dont think you can even consider it a nerf as raiders still have no problem "dodging". The nerf to accu down was simply the cooldown, i know many raiders who dont even rely on that skill or even have it and do more than fine.

really giving the most return? you realise that the base crit on a cleric is 0..this would not be a reasonable alternative as any fighter class could out crit the cleric without even trying...and no shiet, i was simply mocking your response. 

well, unfortunatly, def / m def / dodge are a no go, they do really scale horribly so, apart from crit, I see no other "tank" stats out there wich could possibly be coupled with 30 charm. If there is some hidden secret stat running around without me noticing, plz keep me updated! As you are pretty lazy and all, I'll just point out again that I ve never said it was a good build, or choice, but the one giving the most return, that seems indeed accurate (for tanking still).

well, unfortunatly, def / m def / dodge are a no go, they do really scale horribly so, apart from crit, I see no other "tank" stats out there wich could possibly be coupled with 30 charm.

Now you're stating something acceptable,this is true ;o

I agreed with them scaled horribly. I see no points on having def/mdef higher than 7k as the new damage reduction curve turns flat once u get to 60% or so. Like having 7k defense and 8k defense doesn't really make a difference.

Maybe Need new substats for clerics like block rate or offhand, heal power with acceptable amounts.

Maybe even the new Lv220 Reinforced Gears

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 03:16 PM.

well, unfortunatly, def / m def / dodge are a no go, they do really scale horribly so, apart from crit, I see no other "tank" stats out there wich could possibly be coupled with 30 charm. If there is some hidden secret stat running around without me noticing, plz keep me updated! As you are pretty lazy and all, I'll just point out again that I ve never said it was a good build, or choice, but the one giving the most return, that seems indeed accurate (for tanking still).

How can you be so naive? Like for reals HAVE U EVER played FS? If not pls avoid making those innacurate naive comments that are just confusing and wrong for any non cleric player or any newbie that might of stop by. It gets annoying to have to correct you every single time. 

Cleric has no base critical, the use of sen on stats gives so little "reward" compared to the points u sacrifice, even with full critical passives a cleric can be taken down to negative critical so that even a visitor could critic on them. If you use critical substas you will be facing mana problems, as well as mspeed problems, or even block rate problems (depending on ur build) Something any cleric user knows. In fact critical on clerics is so useless that getting more mana/mp recov and spam mana shield will be more efficient (EVEN with no damage cap on mana shield) 

We took down all of the suggestions and comments you have been making since the start and you keep changing them to try to accomdote them to ur "ideals" , so until u make a cleric and provide EVIDENCE that what you are saying it's good and could actually work, please restrain yourself from making any furhter comments on this section, as we are trying to provide decent suggestions that could actually benefit and facilitate their role. 

Edited by carlosrose, 24 June 2015 - 03:25 PM.

Now you're stating something acceptable,this is true ;o

 

I agreed with them scaled horribly. I see no points on having def/mdef higher than 7k as the new damage reduction curve turns flat once u get to 60% or so. Like having 7k defense and 8k defense doesn't really make a difference.

 

Maybe Need new substats for clerics like block rate or offhand, heal power with acceptable amounts.

Maybe even the new Lv220 Reinforced Gears

This is whole different discussion, wouldn't sound that bad, block rate gems or heal power gems could be a nice idea. (not cleric specific sub stats tho, wouldn't make much sense)

How can you be so naive? Like for reals HAVE U EVER played FS? If not pls avoid making those innacurate naive comments that are just confusing and wrong for any non cleric player or any newbie that might of stop by. It gets annoying to have to correct you every single time. 

 

Cleric has no base critical, the use of sen on stats gives so little "reward" compared to the points u sacrifice, even with full critical passives a cleric can be taken down to negative critical so that even a visitor could critic on them. If you use critical substas you will be facing mana problems, as well as mspeed problems, or even block rate problems (depending on ur build) Something any cleric user knows. In fact critical on clerics is so useless that getting more mana/mp recov and spam mana shield will be more efficient (EVEN with no damage cap on mana shield) 

 

We took down all of the suggestions and comments you have been making since the start and you keep changing them to try to accomdote them to ur "ideals" , so until u make a cleric and provide EVIDENCE that what you are saying it's good and could actually work, please restrain yourself from making any furhter comments on this section, as we are trying to provide decent suggestions that could actually benefit and facilitate their role. 

You never took down any of my suggestions, and you once again proved that you are completly not able to understand anything I m posting, I did try to explain... but failed in your case. You are just acting like a stupid kid. I bet you'll keep on going on the lil crusade of yours tho, it s kinda cute.

This is whole different discussion, wouldn't sound that bad, block rate gems or heal power gems could be a nice idea. (not cleric specific sub stats tho, wouldn't make much sense)

Bummer, they already have block rate gems and heal power gems. But they are completely useless since clerics do not use honor gears and it is wise to use substats rather than gems on reinforced.

It would be better if there are substats like block rate or offhand so that clerics can pair those stats up with 30 charm substats on the reinforced set and accessories.. Thats what I mean

Edited by LunaXavier, 24 June 2015 - 04:11 PM.

Bummer, they already have block rate gems and heal power gems.

 

It would be better if there are substats like block rate or offhand so that clerics can pair those stats up with 30 charm substats on the reinforced set and accessories.. Thats what I mean

I smell new gems coming along. Weaker then B7 but has charm + off hand def/block

How's that?