WILL SOMEBODY LISTEN PLEASE! (Mage Catastrophe II)

You did not read my posts it seems. This is not their overall damages alone that make this class really really strong... but the fact they got access to very powerfull crowed control skills too. And btw... even talking about single target damage... no raider would survive 3 mages using single target skill on them.

 

But once again.... nice try I nearly felt sad for Mages!

 

First your post said " 3 mages can destroy the whole team " therefore you are refering to aoes, and that is what i was refering to mages aoes, so  think about what you are typing and replying.

 

As for the rest are you now complaning about the debuffs or stun that comes with aoes? Mages are suppose to be able to have a crowd control is part of their role (and as a matter of fact there are better crowd control jobs).

Doesnt raider have 1 stun and 1 sleep?  Raiders can have a fairly decent target control on a team as for example sleep the cleric to gang the mage or stun a player to able to kill another, etc. 

 

I'm gonna refer to stun aoes as crowd control since is what most ppl considers "op" (eventhough the mspeed down or dodge down can be as good). Mages have a total of 3 stun aoes which are the following

1. Tempest (12.0s cooldown 20% success rate Duration 2 seconds)
2. (PvP) Meteorite flow (16.0s cooldown 20% success rate Duration 3 seconds)
3. (PvP) Thunder Storm (20.0s cooldown 70% success rate Duration 3 seconds)

So out of those 2 the only reliable stun would be PvP thunder storm since those 20% ones will 80% of the time not work at all. Now a mage would have 3 stuns IF HE GOES FOR THAT BUILD which makes the mage sacrifice multiple other skills or passives that could come really in handy during a clash.

 

Mages can be easily stopped with a single mute, stun, sleep. What the old mana shield provided mages is the chance to survive for a bit longer to those encounters (the reason behind this thread in particular), atm mages defense mechanism are FAR  too weak compared to the damage formula.

Mages.. huh

 

always a raider that hates the mage class because what? AOEs?

why do you think most of the raider players choose that class? and if someone is honest it would go like this.. cloak, dodge, crit and attack speed.

the most agile character like some said an "Assassin" and i agree. but why does raiders get to go stealth and mages cannot? and we are talking about the magician class here that uses magic which by all fairness if there is the ability of cloaking that exists it should go to them.., but no raiders has it.

only defense mechanism is the manashield and works on the same defense that your character has. 

what most raiders dont know those who havent played mage recently is that mages are too much work not just select set back and watch. like some other classes. if we were both to lag.. it will be an advantage to raider his "auto-attack" will prevail whilst the mage cannot skill during a lag.

i might think it would be fair for a mage to be what they are now like some others said its the way you play mage because that is true, i am sometime able to have a fair game but thats when we have a better team than the others.

mages got elements now for each skill tree and i love the idea that every mage if they want to be good they got to pick a certain element to make it their type.

but the lack of sp due to like what someone said for the too much passives that you need to get it forces your hand on either picking a defense side or an offense side, and if you were to balance you couldnt have both because simply it is not balanced.

i see "charasX" took it upon himself to defend raiders and attack mages. trying to make a case against the 3 raiders which is the least to target a mage which a mage couldnt survive and btw i think 3 raiders are way too much.. two can do the job now or even one anyway; CharasX you forgot to mention the amount of dodge raiders are allowed to have now with the changes that came to the pvp honor sets.. mages hit 1 out of 5 skills whilst you will never miss on him and you dont need that much of accuracy anyway. but for mages even with the highest INT that you can have and the passive that gives you accuracy out of INT i never have enough accuracy to kill a raider now..

i would respect your argument more if you actually knew what you were talking about.

 

Ramesses, 

 

I do not hate on Mages at all... I m just presenting facts here.

 

Mages got a very high single target DPS

Mages got a very high AOE DPS

Mages got a very high crowed control potential

Mages got access to an amazing accuracy

Mages cannot tank much, but if supported by clerics and positionned well, can survive definitly long enough to be deadly for the oposing team.

 

I m playing MMOs since 15 years, I have much experience in pvps, be it for 1vs1 10vs10 or even 100vs100 zerg fights. I know how a balanced system looks like and what it takes to have a pvp system thout could be considered competitive. Mages got too many advantages, even as they are right now, indeed, as I said in my previous posts, I find it pretty silly to have nerfed their mana shield... if i had to choose I would have nerf either their DPS or their crowed control.

 

A balanced class cannot.. and shouldn't be good at more than 2 of those aspects.

 

If you wish... as it seems you believe I "hate" on Mages just because i m raider... we can analyse my class, wich would be katar raider!

Raiders got a very high single target damage

Raiders got not AOE DPS

Raiders got no crowed control

Raiders have decent tanking abilities (I still die within 3 sec if I got targetted by one of those nasty gunbourgs!), but stealth and cloack are here to save the day.

 

 

Now this seems to me way more balanced than what we can observe by doing a quick analyse of the Mage class. 

 

BTW I find it very funny that you are complaining about Mages having low accuracy.... and even more that you are trying to tell that Mages should have access to cloack! This is like... completly unreal lol 

 

I m not a kid, trying to make my own class be better than any other out there... I would really wish to have a balanced system like this game used to have... back in the days.

 

But plz by all mean... keep trying! 

First your post said " 3 mages can destroy the whole team " therefore you are refering to aoes, and that is what i was refering to mages aoes, so  think about what you are typing and replying.

 

As for the rest are you now complaning about the debuffs or stun that comes with aoes? Mages are suppose to be able to have a crowd control is part of their role (and as a matter of fact there are better crowd control jobs).

Doesnt raider have 1 stun and 1 sleep?  Raiders can have a fairly decent target control on a team as for example sleep the cleric to gang the mage or stun a player to able to kill another, etc. 

 

I'm gonna refer to stun aoes as crowd control since is what most ppl considers "op" (eventhough the mspeed down or dodge down can be as good). Mages have a total of 3 stun aoes which are the following

1. Tempest (12.0s cooldown 20% success rate Duration 2 seconds)
2. (PvP) Meteorite flow (16.0s cooldown 20% success rate Duration 3 seconds)
3. (PvP) Thunder Storm (20.0s cooldown 70% success rate Duration 3 seconds)

So out of those 2 the only reliable stun would be PvP thunder storm since those 20% ones will 80% of the time not work at all. Now a mage would have 3 stuns IF HE GOES FOR THAT BUILD which makes the mage sacrifice multiple other skills or passives that could come really in handy during a clash.

 

Mages can be easily stopped with a single mute, stun, sleep. What the old mana shield provided mages is the chance to survive for a bit longer to those encounters (the reason behind this thread in particular), atm mages defense mechanism are FAR  too weak compared to the damage formula.

 

I don't know what to tell u... it seems like you do not want to understand my posts... that we aren't playing the same game either... I see teams having 3 Mages win their match with ease on a daily basis... I see those Mages throwing their AOE stun and getting the whole oposing team wiped again... and again... and again.

 

Now... If I read yur post... It would nearly look like you do truely believe those stuns should even have an higher success rate! or that mage damages should even be higher! Maybe you believe in everything you are typing... I m not sure at this point if it s just trolling... or trying to get ur class even more OP than it already is... or if it s sincere.

 

PS : every single classes have to make huge sacrifices in order to take certain skills.

I don't know what to tell u... it seems like you do not want to understand my posts... that we aren't playing the same game either... I see teams having 3 Mages win their match with ease on a daily basis... I see those Mages throwing their AOE stun and getting the whole oposing team wiped again... and again... and again.

 

Now... If I read yur post... It would nearly look like you do truely believe those stuns should even have an higher success rate! or that mage damages should even be higher! Maybe you believe in everything you are typing... I m not sure at this point if it s just trolling... or trying to get ur class even more OP than it already is... or if it s sincere.

 

PS : every single classes have to make huge sacrifices in order to take certain skills.

 

The inability of 1 team to deal with 3 mages doesnt mean that mages are op, I fought multiple times vs teams with more than 3 mages and with the proper teamwork they will go down easy, is not about the job but about the teamwork and player behind the character. Also the amount of katars is FAR GREATER than the amount of mages.

 

I would never say that the damage should be increased since I already said multiple times that damage needed a nerf, neither I would say that mages need better success rate on their aoes they are fine as it is. I'm not trying to make any class I play OP (even though mages aint OP) but playable and enjoyable (which atm for mages is based on who are you fighting and how skill is you team), as I already said that extra 25% mana shield was a real something for mages and gave them the time to recast their defenses or throw 1 more aoe.

 

For reals? A katar raider talking about huge sacrifices on skill points?, Dont make me laugh scout and katar have the most straight forward skill build there is atm.

The inability of 1 team to deal with 3 mages doesnt mean that mages are op, I fought multiple times vs teams with more than 3 mages and with the proper teamwork they will go down easy, is not about the job but about the teamwork and player behind the character. Also the amount of katars is FAR GREATER than the amount of mages.

 

I would never say that the damage should be increased since I already said multiple times that damage needed a nerf, neither I would say that mages need better success rate on their aoes they are fine as it is. I'm not trying to make any class I play OP (even though mages aint OP) but playable and enjoyable (which atm for mages is based on who are you fighting and how skill is you team), as I already said that extra 25% mana shield was a real something for mages and gave them the time to recast their defenses or throw 1 more aoe.

 

For reals? A katar raider talking about huge sacrifices on skill points?, Dont make me laugh scout and katar have the most straight forward skill build there is atm.

 

This is Offtopic.. sorry for that... but I got to answer on that precise point! Katar don t have a staight forward "skill" build at all... as... in order to take passives, we have to sacrifice 90% of every active skills we could learn... making them completly useless...

This is the point... every classes make sacrifices!

Anyway.. if I made u laugh... I guess that s already a good thing!

Charas is right on the all builds needs a huge sacrifice. Just to put as an example. If a katar raider gets all the passives, which i did once before, the only thing you have enough for is stealth, 1 -2 cloak, and 2-3 stun. (the numbers are the lvls) and because also raiders use the dg passives like fury and wired (typical builds) some even get raider's accordance. Let's try to do some math here.

 

DG passives 2 = 10 points together (5 points ea)

5 passives skills on melee tab that MUST be attained for melee type (which is pretty much everyone in the game) = 50 points (10 to max each)

2( or 3 if you want more ms) passives for common tree = 20 points (30 if ms passive)

10 skill passives on raider tree = 100 points

 

Only on passives skills alone, a typical raider already spent 180 (190 with ms passive) points, and that is the need for a katar melee type for pvp, Now there's 40 points, let's see.

 

Stealth 5

Cloak 5

Crit debuff attack 5

to OPEN stun skill 10

Stun 5

 

30 points. Which brings a total of 210 (220 with ms passive) points. With only 11 (1 JUST BECAUES for ms passive) skill points left, its a complete dilemma on which skill to get.Burn? Poison? More passives? PvP/PvM skills? so on and so forth.

 

Katar raiders sacrifice almost all the active skills they have in order to be a melee type just for pvp.

 

As for mages, they need to get passives depending on their type. same thing, dg passives 10 if you get both, a only a few passives which they need depending on build.

 

Mine personally is a mana shield build (yes i know, i am a noob but at least with this i survive longer) for pvm. I know i know, pvm is different from pvp, blah blah blah. But even for pvm, it is already decent enough for a mage to be that squishy but strong. Great power and total damage for defence or vice versa if you use a defensive build to last longer. I personally sacrificed my wind tree (yes it hurts so bad) just for my mana shield build. All that mp, i need all of it. So i only have so many aoes. I manage to get a few skills for the wind type, and i think tempest for wind tree for mage tab. That's so far it. I don't know how many more i can get and i don't know what else i am going to get.

 

The OPness of the game really depends on the person that specialize in a certain class, and know how to build their class well. If you want to measure anything based on a complete pro, then its not a proper measurement. Measuring how easy it is to obtain those items to be as professional to how the others are, to feel that accomplishment of getting there depending on your own style, is suppose to be how this game is like. Because these specialize classed people, actually KNOW what to do with their class and how to make them stronger. If they do get stronger, its their own achievement.

If you get a complete newbie into dg (or at least a newbie character with no proper gears), he/she will die a lot, i mean a lot. So please don't ruin the game balance for newbies just because to satisfy you pvp players.

 

Also btw carlos, mute, stun, sleep = death for almost every class. So your argument for mage being stunned, muted, and slept to die kinda also applies for other classes. So its kinda invalid as it is.

Edited by KatsuraKujo, 17 June 2015 - 03:58 PM.

Did i forget to mention in my screenie that worldmage was grouoed with his clannies of 3 clerics?... so thats unliheals for him.. then why did he get 25 kills... he wasnt even rambo-ing during that time. He was the only one dying in his team. When I play myself fs I tend to exhaust my heals and mp trying to save the mage. Its either all my heals are on cooldown or dont have enough mp because of the multiple use of the mp hogging res skill.

And not all class that get stun muted or slept instantly dies.. most of them can outlast these things.. due to high hp, access to instant heals, high dodge, high defense, block rate dmg reduction etc.. while mages can die easy.. when mana shield goes down very fast since it doesnt have a damage cap.. I experienced an axe and an impact arrow brought down my shield of 25k in 1 shot.. after that youll have 1 sec to live without the mana shield.

And take note for the past year... aural pierce was nerfed.. so is mental focus..

Also what I was asking was to nerf the overall damage output... its just too high


But tbh im used with the muse class being the most favorite class to nerf.. im used to aoe die res die res die res aoe die res die (STOP RESSING ME! OMG) respawn kind of gameplay

The only thing I only like about the nerfs are the free resets

Edited by kwayan19, 17 June 2015 - 08:41 PM.

I didn't mean instant death, i mean it has a closer chance to dying with those status caused to classes. Don't get me wrong though, i am here to mention what i can that is all. I kinda support the thread to make mages a little more stronger, but the argument is going literally everywhere so yeah.

Edited by KatsuraKujo, 17 June 2015 - 05:38 PM.

Well for mages its instant death...

Also btw carlos, mute, stun, sleep = death for almost every class. So your argument for mage being stunned, muted, and slept to die kinda also applies for other classes. So its kinda invalid as it is.

Muting or stunning a raider is not the end of the world for them. They have their lovely dodge and mspd to escape the critical situations.

Muting or stunning a raider is not the end of the world for them. They have their lovely dodge and mspd to escape the critical situations.

 

In wich universe Raiders have more m speed than a mage? are you referring to our 150 mspeed passive? and in wich universe is dodge helping at all with survivability? like honestly... any high acc class targets me and I m dead within a few seconds.

 

I'll repeat it once again : The only thing that makes Mages die so much during pvps is the fact that everyone targets them first, because they represent the higher threat on the field.

In wich universe Raiders have more m speed than a mage? are you referring to our 150 mspeed passive? and in wich universe is dodge helping at all with survivability? like honestly... any high acc class targets me and I m dead within a few seconds.

 

I'll repeat it once again : The only thing that makes Mages die so much during pvps is the fact that everyone targets them first, because they represent the higher threat on the field.

Just because its high accuracy doesnt mean its 100% hit on every skill. But low dodge means its nearly 100% chance to take every hits.

Most raiders have over 1.5k mspd and over 6k dodge, which i'm pretty sure their movement speed are way more superior to mages. Even the glori set gives a bunch of movement speed with huge load of dodge boost. And yes dodge is the most reliable survivability atm. Dodge >> defense.

 

Edited by LunaXavier, 17 June 2015 - 11:09 PM.

Muse class btw has -10 mspeed stats on their shoes, while hawkers got +25 mspeed

Just because its high accuracy doesnt mean its 100% hit on every skill. But low dodge means its nearly 100% chance to take every hits.

Most raiders have over 1.5k mspd and over 6k dodge, which i'm pretty sure their movement speed are way more superior to mages. Even the glori set gives a bunch of movement speed with huge load of dodge boost. And yes dodge is the most reliable survivability atm. Dodge >> defense.

 

I see I see... so... what? you would like to have more mouvement speed? but for what exactly? I mean... your role is to stay very close to your cleric and if possible your knight... Or are you trying to tell me you would like to roam kill with your Mage maybe?

 

As for raiders and their 6k dodge... I won t give too much infos on the subject... but it does make me smile quite a lot.

 

In fact all of you guys would like to have your Mage having their current damage.... their current CCs.... the mobility of a raider.... to have a cloack skill.... to be more tanky... what else dudes? you want warpportal to send you a daily box of champagne delevired right in front of your door?

 

And yes, Mages can reach such a high accuracy that you could compare that to ... let s say 90% hit to the highest dodge achievable ingame. Also, I would like to make sure ppl know that, even if as a raider, you go for 6k dodge, wich means you sacrifice absolutly everything to this stat... you'll nearly never see anyone with a decent build missing on u (other Katar raiders will tho... as our accuracy is the lowest ingame).

 

Edit : wich is ok tho... right... I m not whining about it... just wanted to clarify missleading informations.

Edited by CharasX, 18 June 2015 - 12:16 AM.

I see I see... so... what? you would like to have more mouvement speed? but for what exactly? I mean... your role is to stay very close to your cleric and if possible your knight... Or are you trying to tell me you would like to roam kill with your Mage maybe? 

So you're wrong? lol Mages are fine really. I'm just trying to prove what ur trying to say "Mages having more mspd than raiders" is nonsense.

 

As for raiders and their 6k dodge... I won t give too much infos on the subject... but it does make me smile quite a lot.

 

In fact all of you guys would like to have your Mage having their current damage.... their current CCs.... the mobility of a raider.... to have a cloack skill.... to be more tanky... what else dudes? you want warpportal to send you a daily box of champagne delevired right in front of your door?

What are you even trying to say lol? Don't have to pull in irrelevance stuffs.

 

And yes, Mages can reach such a high accuracy that you could compare that to ... let s say 90% hit to the highest dodge achievable ingame. Also, I would like to make sure ppl know that, even if as a raider, you go for 6k dodge, wich means you sacrifice absolutly everything to this stat... you'll nearly never see anyone with a decent build missing on u (other Katar raiders will tho... as our accuracy is the lowest ingame).

You know you cannot have 90% hit chance if you know how dodge formula works. For 6k dodge? Almost every good raider can easily achieve this dodge with glorious set. Why mention having low accuracy in game as katar? You only need high accuracy to hit your fellow hawker class, while you can land every single hit on other classes with criticals.

 

Edit : wich is ok tho... right... I m not whining about it... just wanted to clarify missleading informations.

Your informations are more misleading... mages having more mspd than raiders..really? lol

 

Edited by LunaXavier, 18 June 2015 - 12:31 AM.

I see I see... so... what? you would like to have more mouvement speed? but for what exactly? I mean... your role is to stay very close to your cleric and if possible your knight... Or are you trying to tell me you would like to roam kill with your Mage maybe?

 

As for raiders and their 6k dodge... I won t give too much infos on the subject... but it does make me smile quite a lot.

 

In fact all of you guys would like to have your Mage having their current damage.... their current CCs.... the mobility of a raider.... to have a cloack skill.... to be more tanky... what else dudes? you want warpportal to send you a daily box of champagne delevired right in front of your door?

 

And yes, Mages can reach such a high accuracy that you could compare that to ... let s say 90% hit to the highest dodge achievable ingame. Also, I would like to make sure ppl know that, even if as a raider, you go for 6k dodge, wich means you sacrifice absolutly everything to this stat... you'll nearly never see anyone with a decent build missing on u (other Katar raiders will tho... as our accuracy is the lowest ingame).

 

Edit : wich is ok tho... right... I m not whining about it... just wanted to clarify missleading informations.

 

So much BS at so many levels. First she never said that mage needed more mspeed BUT THAT RAIDER did have mspeed in order to proove you wrong. Learn to read

 

6k dodge on my raider? EASY, and not using a single dodge substat neither I am a dodge based raider, in fact I'm a burn type.

 

The only thing we are discussing on this thread was the unnecesary nerf of the mana shield and how bad it influenced the class, noone is asking for more damage or having cloak on mage (something that would be totally useless. My mage in particular has over 3k accuracy on AA games and is FAR from a 90% hit, it is as much as 60% on a lucky day.

 

And raider having the lowest accuracy in game? Dayum you know nothing charasx as a matter of fact the ones with lowest accuracy end up being skill base spear champ bcoz even though they got a 15% passive their gear choice (lumi) makes their accuracy be easily surpassed by a katar raider wearing a glori set.

So much BS at so many levels. First she never said that mage needed more mspeed BUT THAT RAIDER did have mspeed in order to proove you wrong. Learn to read

 

6k dodge on my raider? EASY, and not using a single dodge substat neither I am a dodge based raider, in fact I'm a burn type.

 

The only thing we are discussing on this thread was the unnecesary nerf of the mana shield and how bad it influenced the class, noone is asking for more damage or having cloak on mage (something that would be totally useless. My mage in particular has over 3k accuracy on AA games and is FAR from a 90% hit, it is as much as 60% on a lucky day.

 

And raider having the lowest accuracy in game? Dayum you know nothing charasx as a matter of fact the ones with lowest accuracy end up being skill base spear champ bcoz even though they got a 15% passive their gear choice (lumi) makes their accuracy be easily surpassed by a katar raider wearing a glori set.

 

*facepalm*

 

6k dodge on a katar raider with no substats means u took every passives for it... plus pumped high dext... less sens... less con... that is what I call sacrifice.

 

3k accuracy let you hit absolutly everything ingame with a 90% chance minimum.

 

You are welcomed to read again previous posts and see if noone asked for another boost for Mages.

 

Raider do have the lowest accuracy ingame... and gear sets are absolutly not class related. Ofc a raider using glorious gears will have more acc than a spear champ on lumi gears.... but a spear champ on glorious gears will also have more accuracy than a raider using... why not... lumi gears.

 

I know what I m talking about, and probably way more than you do.

 

Do not mess with me, it will get u nowhere.... now let s go back ontopic and stop being so personnal.

*facepalm*

 

6k dodge on a katar raider with no substats means u took every passives for it... plus pumped high dext... less sens... less con... that is what I call sacrifice.

Glorious set gives you everything you need. Dodge,mspd, accuracy,critical, what are you looking forward to have more? 

 

3k accuracy let you hit absolutly everything ingame with a 90% chance minimum.  Proof for this? This is completely wrong. Dodge formula never said that

 

You are welcomed to read again previous posts and see if noone asked for another boost for Mages.

 

Raider do have the lowest accuracy ingame... and gear sets are absolutly not class related. Ofc a raider using glorious gears will have more acc than a spear champ on lumi gears.... but a spear champ on glorious gears will also have more accuracy than a raider using... why not... lumi gears.

You dont really need accuracy to kill mage or champ really..

 

I know what I m talking about, and probably way more than you do. Right, mages having more mspd than raiders and 3k accuracy hit everything with 90%chance?  LOL

 

Do not mess with me, it will get u nowhere.... now let s go back ontopic and stop being so personnal. Cute

 

Edited by LunaXavier, 18 June 2015 - 12:52 AM.

I think mages are fine the way they are right now, they're supposed to be a bit more superior to other classes with it's offense, I mean, they're the magic-type of killers, and the only magic offensive class, BCs are just clerics that throw out weighted fireballs.

 

Raiders are already very powerful, no need to boost them up, no need to nerf them, they're fine until they crit you to death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*facepalm*

 

6k dodge on a katar raider with no substats means u took every passives for it... plus pumped high dext... less sens... less con... that is what I call sacrifice.

 

3k accuracy let you hit absolutly everything ingame with a 90% chance minimum.

 

You are welcomed to read again previous posts and see if noone asked for another boost for Mages.

 

Raider do have the lowest accuracy ingame... and gear sets are absolutly not class related. Ofc a raider using glorious gears will have more acc than a spear champ on lumi gears.... but a spear champ on glorious gears will also have more accuracy than a raider using... why not... lumi gears.

 

I know what I m talking about, and probably way more than you do.

 

Do not mess with me, it will get u nowhere.... now let s go back ontopic and stop being so personnal.

 

First you know literally know anything about my build at all therefore shut it and quit trying to talk about it, I wil be more than happy to show you "how many sacrifices I made" on the easiest job to play on rose that requires 0 skill to play

 

3k accuracy doesnt give you the ability to hit everything with a 90% chance it doesnt work like that, which you would know if you would of tested it.

 

Boosting mage on the sense of recovering the old 100% fortified mana shield wouldnt mean an upgrade but more of a fix for a not needed nerf. There is no need for more mspeed nor camo nor more dmg on mages as we have been saying for the whole thread.

 

Set choice influence greater than passives, why would a katar raider (that 99.9% of the katar population went for dps) would use a luminous gear? There is literally no point for that whether spear champs do need to use luminous in order to do some decent dmg.

 

Dont make assumptions on what I do know or not know you might be suprised, and btw is hilarious you are talking about being so personal when you are the one that makes those kind of comments. 

 

I've been on topic the whole time, the only side comment where to proove you wrong as the only output you can give is from a raider perspective, whether (me, lunaxavier and multiple other players) can give output from a non biased perspective of multiple other jobs.

First you know literally know anything about my build at all therefore shut it and quit trying to talk about it, I wil be more than happy to show you "how many sacrifices I made" on the easiest job to play on rose that requires 0 skill to play

How is raider easiest to play than Mage? Mages.. you basically stand somewhere... stun ppl... spam aoes... Raiders is about mouvement... target priority and target switching, and knowing when to be sneaky in order to survive far from your clerics. I like to think that Raider is a job that many play... but only very few manage to master. 

 

3k accuracy doesnt give you the ability to hit everything with a 90% chance it doesnt work like that, which you would know if you would of tested it.

With 2.8k acc on my dual raider... I do not miss anyone. So I would assume that 3k won t miss either.

 

Boosting mage on the sense of recovering the old 100% fortified mana shield wouldnt mean an upgrade but more of a fix for a not needed nerf. There is no need for more mspeed nor camo nor more dmg on mages as we have been saying for the whole thread.

I'm ok for boosting up their defense again... but then, their dmg or their ccs must be nerfed in return.

 

Set choice influence greater than passives, why would a katar raider (that 99.9% of the katar population went for dps) would use a luminous gear? There is literally no point for that whether spear champs do need to use luminous in order to do some decent dmg.

A spear champ could completly go and use glorious gears and still deal decent damage... the same way dual raiders can go lumi and still be able to perform nicely. Gears are personnal choices... if you wanna go for a precious gear... because you like speed and plan on staying around your clerics at all time... why not!?

Mainstream builds are generally not really the best... you know.

 

Dont make assumptions on what I do know or not know you might be suprised, and btw is hilarious you are talking about being so personal when you are the one that makes those kind of comments. 

You started it, and I will not back off in front of anyone.

 

I've been on topic the whole time, the only side comment where to proove you wrong as the only output you can give is from a raider perspective, whether (me, lunaxavier and multiple other players) can give output from a non biased perspective of multiple other jobs.

It s great that you try so hard to proove me wrong... but plz, do not come and tell me that your point of view is objective. I did make precise posts on why I believe Mage is a very powerfull... and I can repeat it again, if you really wish.. that the only reason why they die so much is because they are ALWAYS the first target... and this ONLY because they are such a strong class.

 

How is raider easiest to play than Mage? Mages.. you basically stand somewhere... stun ppl... spam aoes... Raiders is about mouvement... target priority and target switching, and knowing when to be sneaky in order to survive far from your clerics. I like to think that Raider is a job that many play... but only very few manage to master.  Raider needs little to non skill timing, all they need to do is gang up on a specific target and let their dps do their work whether for a mage is all about positioning, timing those aoes (when to use their dodge down, mspeed down, dmg output aoes, stun aoes, etc...), when to cast mana shield, dont get lured out by a runner lurer, stay on guard for posible ambush, etc. 

 

With 2.8k acc on my dual raider... I do not miss anyone. So I would assume that 3k won t miss either. Please be my guest and provide real proof that a mage with 3k accuracy has a 90% chance of hitting. I will be more than happy to acknowledge that then, until then US the mages who play  PvP  have way more insight on the topic

 

I'm ok for boosting up their defense again... but then, their dmg or their ccs must be nerfed in return. How naive.... Due to new damage formula defense is totally useless, so at the end this would just result on a nerf on damge, tankability and cc, therefore another nerf on a class once again

 

A spear champ could completly go and use glorious gears and still deal decent damage... the same way dual raiders can go lumi and still be able to perform nicely. Gears are personnal choices... if you wanna go for a precious gear... because you like speed and plan on staying around your clerics at all time... why not!? 

Mainstream builds are generally not really the best... you know.

 Decent damage? I've played multiple times with a clannie spear champ and we both use different gears to test them and at the end her spear champ made up to 2x times the damage of my spear champ (both same build same jelery but different gear) compared to her 5k aoes, 2k aoes are a joke. Indeed gears are personal choices that doesnt mean that there arent best suited gears for each situation. (Just and FYI precious gear ahs lower speed than glorious, preci gear would be for aspeed).

You started it, and I will not back off in front of anyone.

 

It s great that you try so hard to proove me wrong... but plz, do not come and tell me that your point of view is objective. I did make precise posts on why I believe Mage is a very powerfull... and I can repeat it again, if you really wish.. that the only reason why they die so much is because they are ALWAYS the first target... and this ONLY because they are such a strong class. As I said before the reason why mages are targeted first is bcoz they are GAME CHANGING and suppose a thread to the enemy, and for a mage is normal and acceptable to die, but one thing is to die presenting a small of a fight, another thing is that mages get killed in less than 3 seconds. Their defense mechanism atm is a joke: as we said PLENTY of times mana shield ha no damage cap therefore it can be taken out by 2 hits (even if it would come to be 50k mana shield an axe could take it out with no problem in 2 skills) not only that but they reduced the amount of mana included on the shield, in other words mana shield went from allowing mages to have enough time to recast it or spam one more aoe, to be taken out in 1-2 skills or be dead in the duration of a 3 second stun whether other classes even when they get a 3 seconds stun have time to cast a red pot or be able to run.

 

But then again I do not expect a non mage player to understand and know what it is to play a mage. Class balancing is always hard, and even more when people fails to make non biased assumptions or comments. 

Edited by carlosrose, 18 June 2015 - 02:24 AM.

I would like to point out that every class but tanks and clerics dies in less than 3 sec if targetted by several ennemies, I really fail to see why it should be different for Mages. And no... really... don't come up with dodge blahblahblah... already experienced getting targeted by a single gun bourg as a raider or scout and die instantly? 

 

Regarding glorious gears... well, it s a tanking set... and this for every class, ofc you deal less damage than with pure DPS gears, there s no exception to that.

Regarding precious gears... poeple do not use precious to primarly stack mouvement speed, but to boost their healing%

 

But then again I do not expect a non mage player to understand and know what it is to play a mage. Class balancing is always hard, and even more when people fails to make non biased assumptions or comments. 

 

Indeed, many people fail completly to make non biased assumptions or comments.

Muting or stunning a raider is not the end of the world for them. They have their lovely dodge and mspd to escape the critical situations.

Which is why i mentioned "almost every class" cuz i know some either have high hp/def or dodge. 

Regarding glorious gears... well, it s a tanking set... and this for every class, ofc you deal less damage than with pure DPS gears, there s no exception to that.

Regarding precious gears... poeple do not use precious to primarly stack mouvement speed, but to boost their healing%

Since when did Glorious gear is a tanking set for everyone...? 

 

Indeed, many people fail completly to make non biased assumptions or comments.

I think you already failed to do this when you stated Mages have more mspd than raiders and 3k accuracy being able to hit every class at 90% chance or stuffs like that.