Making an actually challenging mvp

Even if players use a cheat sheet, the boss could still be challenging if the AI is done right. Also, getting a party of players that each know what they're doing isn't easy. You're bound to come across a Leeroy Jenkins.

That's so Final Fantasy.

I like it.

ff 7 remake announced at E3 or something.

I'll probably play it. I play jRPGs afterall.

Well, if they make a legal autopot, it will only make mvping easier.

Well, if they make a legal autopot, it will only make mvping easier.

All I hope is that they don't put delays when using slims. If they remove hitlocking I need fast slim spam to compensate. If they take my classes ability to solo current MVPs then they makes me bored. And boredom does not make an interesting game to play.

So, what I've gathered:

High hp

Multiple counters for skills so the mvp can't be kills simply by just spamming one major skill.

Map script events like Nyd or SS Bapho

Random variation of the monster so you can't know for sure until you enter the instance.

As far as the reward.  Have the reward be given via npc so all who participate have a equal chance to get loots.

Unfortunately RO's limited ai probably doesn't help.

make MVP with autopot

make MVP with autopot

Easy, have 50 Geographers continually spawn all around it.

just a couple with plant protocol so they can't be killed easily.

So u want a challenge.  Beat A holy MVP with a baby AB.   Beat Satan morroc with a super novice.  NO god gears  no winning through cash to zenny or = lame.  Gears use ones that would have to reasonably obtained by someone who started on Sunday .  Good luck  that i want to see

Here's an idea that takes from Nyd and Oklinr, Every 5 or so minutes during the battle a random party member is teleported to a cage or some sort and in order to get them out you'll have to kill certain monsters that spawn.

wonder if this is feasable at the very least...

It starts with some npc calling for help all over the world bout an incoming disaster...

some entrance quest to do it and at the start of the instance you get to see an actual GM sprite laying down dying calling for help since he can not take down what's inside the instance alone.

you get to gather a huge party, if possible even more than one?, encounter mobs upon mobs of lethal demon monsters in a huge castle-like setup starting from it's gates (lots of guards?) enough to wear down the party, and after clearing all stages get to fight an actual god of the underworld or something similar. Fighting it will be an impossible feat without following a proper procedure like it recovering some huge percentage of it's HP for every certain time and be able to cast multiple Aoe Skills and fatal physical skills (something like an OP clashing spiral or even as far as something like TigerCannon) to prevent GTB, w/ mobs spawning for every certain time (normal flagged monsters that can cast deadly skills and support the boss) similar to OGH Amdarais and before i forget... can cast a friggin pneuma safetywall, dark blessing and a whole lot of resistance.

To kill it, involves a whole lot of kiting, bgems and the participation of that certain GM sprite npc, now fully recovered, that's able to damage the said boss a LOT like Chaos in Faceworm instance but is mobile like that of a mercenary and for better flashy action the npc's every attack effect is just like when a GM attacks a monster using Angra Mainyu, but must also be taken care of by the party's support since the npc can die as well.

NO god gears  no winning through cash to zenny or = lame. 

most people who solo MVPs don't even adhere to those restrictions with their 3rd class characters

I always thought Culvert was one of the instances that promote party play. Although I noticed Kami and maybe several other people could solo the instance. Insane mode perhaps? 

Edited by DeadIntern, 13 July 2015 - 01:13 AM.

Edited by Jaye, 13 July 2015 - 06:58 AM.

Pretty sure Kami solo'ed the culverts... but it may have been someone else?

Hmm...I feel a truly Party-only challenging MVP is possible with just a few tweaks. But, I feel they need some kind of lore to feel complete. Don't throw a difficult mob just for the heck of it, give it a reason to be fought like that. Geffen Magic Tournament gave some cool alternatives, with high leveled bosses that have to be taken solo. Faceworm also introduced some neat mechanics. We also had some more mechanics to force a party with the Piamette fight. I'll throw some ideas I had. I won't include complicated lores as that would take some time

-=Solo MVP's=-

Trapped in a nightmare, the adventurer must take his inner fears!

-=Party MVP=-

The source of the nightmares across all adventurers has been found! It's time to take the demon on!

Loots and the like, well, the idea of each party member recieveing loot tokens from an NPC after the battle is a good one, that way, each player gets the chance of drops at the ends, as if each one killed their own MVP. 

Also, the idea of splitting the party can be applied to many instances so spice things up. 

culverts needs a couple people just to clear out the mobs. I'm not sure how feasible it is to actually kill the mobs AND click the pipes in time if you're running solo. as far as the mvp, ideally you want an actual tank for it in addition to the killer since it can dish out major damage.

I can see someone soloing the boss , but I'm not sure if it's possible to solo the entire instance. maybe a gene using the best gear available in game could do it. no fcp is basically an automatic fail for this instance.

I think I did hard mode malangdo culvrrts as a duo or trio the one and only time I did it, and it was easy. 2 genes and maybe a bishop

Maldago would be quite hard to do solo in the first part.  Bare minimum would be 2 I would think; one to keep the mobs occupied and kill quickly and the other to find a safe corner to clean the pipe.

Hmm...I feel a truly Party-only challenging MVP is possible with just a few tweaks. But, I feel they need some kind of lore to feel complete. Don't throw a difficult mob just for the heck of it, give it a reason to be fought like that. Geffen Magic Tournament gave some cool alternatives, with high leveled bosses that have to be taken solo. Faceworm also introduced some neat mechanics. We also had some more mechanics to force a party with the Piamette fight. I'll throw some ideas I had. I won't include complicated lores as that would take some time

 

-=Solo MVP's=-

 

Trapped in a nightmare, the adventurer must take his inner fears!

Spoiler

Idea: Have the player navigate a Bios-like dungeon filled with first and second classes of his own branch, finally fighting a 3rd Class MVP maybe that mirrors his own avatar.

 

Guidelines:

 

- True 1v1, meaning no slaves.

- MVP has access to the player's skills (or imitations of it)

- MVP has a cycle of attribute changes, passing to the next one every certain time: Neutral 4->Holy 4->Dark 4->Ghost 4->Repeat. This is to force different strategies along the fight for different classes. The MVP will start in one of these at random and start the cycle.

- MVP has same HP as player, access to potting and 85% reduction from player damage. This is to counter possible OP reduction gears from player.

- MVP's AI makes him aggresive if winning and cautious when losing.

 

The idea is to make the fight feel as a PVP scenario. Map will be filled with all kinds of obstacles for the fighters to use to their advantage.

-=Party MVP=-

 

The source of the nightmares across all adventurers has been found! It's time to take the demon on!

Spoiler

Idea: This fight is planned to make each class fight their own demons like the first one, but with the shared goal of defeating the source of all fears (MVP).

 

-This is of course, an instance.

- First part would be regular "defeat-mobs-to-advance" type of thing. Since main focus is the MVP fight, this part is more of a lore thing. It's centered to build the feeling of unity and "this is too easy with my party by my side!" kind of attitude.

- When MVP arrives, it will do a couple of things:

--- Cast Hell's Power, to prevent resurrection and Tokens.

--- Randomly, it will kill 1 player in the party (no exp loss) then teleport other 4 to special maps. The kill first is to prevent soloers from even trying.

--- The teleported classes will be moved to a class-specific maze and must return to the main room to assist on the killing. The mazes will not be complex, but are filled with mobs designed for the class to kill (Demons/Undead for AB, High VIT mobs for Gene, things of that sort). At the end of the maze, the party will receive 1 Special item to cure Hell's Power and revive the fallen member (who will be affected with Hell's Power again upon revival).
--- While the party is split up, the main room will contain the MVP, but will receive 1 damage until the party is back together. This can be made by creating 12 NPC's that require to be talked at roughly the same time. This will kill the plant-type MVP and spawn the normal one. At this point, the fight will start.

--- The MVP will have ~120m HP. Will be rotating among Neutral 4, Holy 4, Dark 4 and Ghost 4 at random during 1 minute intervals. Each element will have different skills.

---Every 3-4 minutes, the MVP will cast an unavoidable 1-hitKO skill in a 11x11 area around it. Will have 2-3 seconds cast to warn players.

---Every 20m HP that the Boss loses, he will teleport 6 of the players to a place withing the room and will be inflicted with a special stauts the will prevent anything. This will spawn some monsters from the Solo Instance that must be defeated (these will be first class equivalents of the captured players). After all are defeated, a second class from a random captured player will appear (mini-boss) and must be defeated. Upon defeat, the captured players will be freed.

 

Loots and the like, well, the idea of each party member recieveing loot tokens from an NPC after the battle is a good one, that way, each player gets the chance of drops at the ends, as if each one killed their own MVP. 

 

Also, the idea of splitting the party can be applied to many instances so spice things up. 

I mainly made this thread  to get ideas from people on what would be needed to make a mvp actually challenging, developing the story around the mvp, etc. is a topic within itself.  Though, I suppose the two would be developed together.  You listed a lot of good ideas for the battle.  I'm not sure if the game could distinguish a proper maze for each person.

For inspiration think about say olkonir; its against your best interest to not bring a party, even if it didn't require a party to get in.

I will sadly probably never see Olkonir.  From what I know of it, there are a lot of features that could be factored in. 

Edited by Talvis, 13 July 2015 - 03:18 PM.

1. good idea for a loot system

2.  That's one thing I would like to see, making it so you can't just solely rely one one skill.  That's why I had put low vit to minimize the effectiveness of AB or chance of changing to ghost property if gfist is used too much.  Crazy high flee to make it so a Ranger couldn't solely rely on AS (not 100% miss, though)

What are some other ways to achieve this?

Or just plain Ghost property period.

Biolabs mutant, 100m HP, all skills of all 12 Bio3/4 MVPs, form of creature changes on HP but is randomized, skills are not based on current form. Shifting stats of 1 vit (counter bomb), 300 luk (counter crit), 700 flee (counter normal hit) stat piercing debuffs so you're forced to bring multiple resistance gears, lv10 EQ with a random cast timer and that anti-token skill from SM (Hell's dignity? not sure)

 

I'm sure I can think of some more evil things, but I am all for something like this

Hell Power does that.