Scouts getting their Wind/Fire/Ice arrows reworked

No, I'm not spreading around rumors of Katars being nerfed.

Is there any chances of Scouts getting their Wind/Fire/Ice arrows reworked as they're a completely useless skill at the moment? It's totally unrealistic at the moment to put those skills into any build at the moment, unless you are pvming with a skill power build, but I don't see that being all that viable because you could probably dish out more dps with an melee attack power auto attack build then using a skill power based build in PVM.

Edited by Snuwfer, 06 November 2015 - 09:31 PM.

SP Build w/ Movespeed/Accu & Maximum Weapon Range is what those Arrows work best for. in and out keeping enemy at a distance and camo if they gap close you. 

But putting skill points into those makes you lose other skill power skills that deal MUCH MUCH more skill power damage.

You reap more benefits from using Double arrow and Aimed Shot than those 3 skills, one is the same cooldown, with 30% + 110 more skill power, the other is 3 seconds, (only 1 second more) cool down, and the skill power from the double arrow is 155% +165 (50% more power). They are seriously dead skills that no scout in game that I know of currently uses.

I have also never understood why Triple arrow for the scout is only 10% more skill power than their double arrow, while triple arrow has a much longer cast animation and only benefits 10% more skill damage, and it has less + than double arrow, it also has a 2 second longer cooldown than double arrow.

Edited by Snuwfer, 06 November 2015 - 10:33 PM.

But putting skill points into those makes you lose other skill power skills that deal MUCH MUCH more skill power damage.

*and take longer to cast, increasing the time you're vulnerable*

 

You reap more benefits from using Double arrow and Aimed Shot than those 3 skills, one is the same cooldown, with 30% + 110 more skill power, the other is 3 seconds, (only 1 second more) cool down, and the skill power from the double arrow is 155% +165.

*stronger AP upfront, weaker effects in the longer run, they lack the dodge + movespeed proc, wounded procs and critical damage procs [useful for finishing a target with a ultra high burst impact]*

They are seriously dead skills that no scout in game that I know of currently uses.

You're focused entirely on upfront damage figures, not long term benefits. When using a juke build like the elemental shots w/ SP + movespeed, you're goal is to maintain control of the situation and work a target down over time. The weakness in this build is the lack of engage power, and taking longer to kill can sometimes put you in danger against another ranged target, but, if you do maintain control and keep your stacks up, your performance could rival burst builds [as you will likely die less often if done correctly, allowing your damage to remain consistent].

Edited by Feuer, 06 November 2015 - 10:34 PM.

I'm not sure you've played scout too much Fuerer, with glorious sets being out and many classes being able to use them (movement speed bonus) (raiders, mages, champs, gun bourgs) the gap between you and the enemy are closed within seconds, by the time you've casted skills they could be on you, ready to decloak you the instant you are cloaked, while having to wait another 45 seconds (that's with max level cloak, good luck surviving) to cloak again. Also, the cast time of those skills is equal to stun arrow, phoenix, entangling, shackle arrow, double arrow, and aimed shot. The cast time of Triple arrow is about equal to your impact arrow, but deals WAY less damage, and doesn't have a stun. Using a typhoon set with 75 accuracy and 50 movement speed (I use this all the time when I'm in a boosting war) your damage is heavily negated, and using luminous you are caught instantly because you don't have the movement speed that glorious gives, dodge rate to be passive aggressive, and accuracy to have your skills actually hit classes other than mages, gun bourgs, champions, knights (low dodge rate classes).

As weak as those 3 skill power skills are, you get more DPS with an auto attack then you would casting with a skill power build when using chiv, do you get what I am saying feurer?

the chance to also apply a stack on all of those 3 skills is also under 50%.

Edited by Snuwfer, 06 November 2015 - 10:44 PM.

You're focused entirely on upfront damage figures, not long term benefits. When using a juke build like the elemental shots w/ SP + movespeed, you're goal is to maintain control of the situation and work a target down over time. The weakness in this build is the lack of engage power, and taking longer to kill can sometimes put you in danger against another ranged target, but, if you do maintain control and keep your stacks up, your performance could rival burst builds [as you will likely die less often if done correctly, allowing your damage to remain consistent].

Why do scouts have to suffer to build stacks out of a 25-40% chance per skill cast out of those 3, when other classes just simply have to hit auto attacks, or a critical damage attack in order to have a 100% guaranteed stack?

Im gonna go on pegasus to do some further testing to see if you're correct about what you're trying to say, but I've tried to build with these stack skills before on the live server and it was horrendous compared to building without the stack skills.

(cant connect to pegasus atm)

Edited by Snuwfer, 06 November 2015 - 11:01 PM.

Why do scouts have to suffer to build stacks out of a 25-40% chance per skill cast out of those 3, when other classes just simply have to hit auto attacks, or a critical damage attack in order to have a 100% guaranteed stack?

Mages are a % to gain on skill cast, none are 100%

Raiders stacks aren't 100% [dual or katar]

Champion Stacks aren't 100% for axes, and swords don't get the benefit of their stacks being able to be kept up permanently until the battle ends like mages + raiders can.

Bourges have to stack a 'counter' before getting the effect, same with sword champions. axe champions, katar raiders and artisans.

If fact, the only '100%' stack, if if the condition is met, it adds a 'counter' that provides no benefit at all until the amount needed it met [typically 5 or 10 counts] and the effect cannot be refreshed, so it falls off and has to be re-added.

Scouts stacks are perfectly fine in their proc rates, and the only arguable fact is the stack duration* could be improved based on skill CD's being slightly increased [only 1.5 seconds or so on the elemental arrows].

Logged into my raider, and you're correct. I'm wrong, but still. I still have a feeling I am correct in a way about launcher bourgs though, those are 100% obtained stacks after hitting a critical damage hit, or normal attack. (those have no % to obtain the stack after a melee hit, or critical damage hit) (I will check my mage in a minute)

A lot of other classes reap the benefits much more heavily than a scout can from their passive stacks, simply because they're passives, and they're not caused by casting a skill.

Perhaps, MAYBE, Changing these skills into passives and only being able to build into one stackable passive will be better than leaving them as is (weak skill power damage, low chance to proc, and a short proc) would be a much better thing to do for scouts. A skill animation is a SET attack speed, other classes (raiders) have an insane amount of auto attack speed, and can reap benefits much more than a skill proc'd passive, simply because they just have to attack and it has a chance to stack as they're clawing away at your health to even be stronger as they're already melting the other class they are attacking.

EDIT: Checked my mage, and these are passives as well, and they're easily max stacked in a scenario of AOEing a group of enemies (such as AA, maybe a war) All 4 of their passives can be stacked from AOEing for a max stack.

Edited by Snuwfer, 06 November 2015 - 11:34 PM.

Logged into my raider, and you're correct. I'm wrong, but still. I still have a feeling I am correct in a way about launcher bourgs though, those are 100% obtained stacks after hitting a critical damage hit, or normal attack. (those have no % to obtain the stack after a melee hit, or critical damage hit) (I will check my mage in a minute)

A lot of other classes reap the benefits much more heavily than a scout can from their passive stacks, simply because they're passives, and they're not caused by casting a skill.

Perhaps, MAYBE, Changing these skills into passives and only being able to build into one stackable passive will be better than leaving them as is (weak skill power damage, low chance to proc, and a short proc) would be a much better thing to do for scouts. A skill animation is a SET attack speed, other classes (raiders) have an insane amount of auto attack speed, and can reap benefits much more than a skill proc'd passive, simply because they just have to attack and it has a chance to stack as they're clawing away at your health to even be stronger as they're already melting the other class they are attacking.

 

EDIT: Checked my mage, and these are passives as well, and they're easily max stacked in a scenario of AOEing a group of enemies (such as AA, maybe a war) All 4 of their passives can be stacked from AOEing for a max stack.

is your passive +5? Just wondering, cuz for me, it stacks really slow even if i'm aoeing