Discussion: Removing the Gate of Prontera and expanding the Emp's radius where you can build weapons

How is defending any WoE gate or orb hard to do?

 

Gate = Spam seige, shield boomerang, and judex.  All three of these things take no effort to do and can even be macroed on alts (which sadly a lot of people do).

 

Orb = Spam AOE... Again, requires no effort; any low level player, alts, or even a bot can accomplish this.

 

As for splitting up the guild, not necessary to do on Pront.  The main gate and the choke point to South fort is right next to each other.
 

i believe is not your place to say whether its easy or hard since well... you have never done it have you?

i believe is not your place to say whether its easy or hard since well... you have never done it have you?

I don't know who you are, but judging by your profile pic... if you are who I think you are it's pretty obvious you are just trying to flamebait me, so Imma just ignore you.  When you decide to grow up, get off of your pedestal, and answer my questions instead of causing unnecessary drama, get back to me~ <3 :3

Edited by donchan, 21 December 2015 - 04:16 PM.

I don't know who you are, but judging by your profile pic... if you are who I think you are it's pretty obvious you are just trying to flamebait me, so Imma just ignore you.  When you decide to grow up, get off of your pedestal, and answer my questions instead of causing unnecessary drama, get back to me~ <3 :3

if you think my question to you is to flamebait  then be my guest. im talking about experience while you are assuming things and creating your own scenario that isn't necessary true and you have no proff of it whatsoever. i dont believe i created a drama it just you taking it too personal.Anyways Good Night

#fortless  #inb4theyatttackme-QtearsQ-
lul
 

I agree WoE was not made to monopolize but considering the amount of players that attend and the number of guilds that actually have an interest on PvP it is only natural that it would happen.Changing the map just because " it is too good" is unacceptable give a better reason why a map redesign should be considered. This game is not about equality, but being fair.Also defending a gate and a orb is also a hard task, it splits the defending guild in two. are you saying one whole guild is not able to bypass that? also in recent WoEs the gate has been opened fairly early in game but at the end is the same results. Its not the map, its the players. Lets put an example, right now the game is in a phase where you need to grind in order to level up, some maps are good for grinding others are not, but does that mean you need to change that map just because it makes grinding harder? eh NO you find another option

You still havent made any valid arguement against my point, you just made a bunch of excuses. Like i said before if you have any VALID arguement as to why it shouldnt be taken out then please let me know, Other than my guild is to incompetent to justify our reasons for wanting it up 

if you think my question to you is to flamebait  then be my guest. im talking about experience while you are assuming things and creating your own scenario that isn't necessary true and you have no proff of it whatsoever. i dont believe i created a drama it just you taking it too personal.Anyways Good Night

Let me make this easy for you:

How is defending any WoE gate or orb hard to do?

There, maybe you'll answer my question this time instead of ignoring it and taking stabs at me for no reason Please give us your opinion from your point of view especially since apparently I have "no experience" in this field.  So Please enlighten everybody by answering my question and contribute to the thread.

Thanks <3 :3

Edited by donchan, 21 December 2015 - 05:26 PM.

Let me make this easy for you:

 

How is defending any WoE gate or orb hard to do?

 

There, maybe you'll answer my question this time instead of taking stabs at me for no reason.  Please give us your opinion from your point of view especially since apparently I have "no experience" in this field.  So Please enlighten everybody by answering my question and contribute to the thread.

 

Thanks <3 :3

Defending a gate and orb is hard? lol

A retarded monkey with a wrench could defend Pront Main Gate.

But 80+ people cant rofl

I want to ask Cartian and to others that agree with him on this point, why do you believe Prontera must be similar or "as difficult" as Morroc WoE map? Do we really want symmetrical maps ? Identical difficulty on both maps, either from attacker's or defender's point of view ?

I very much like how the two WoE maps are different and enjoy both maps for how they are meant to be played. I do not wish the removal of Prontera main gate because I do not want two similar WoE maps in terms of difficulty to attack or defend Castles and Forts. In my opinion, if attacking guilds ally to bring down that main gate it can be done if there is will and know-how. I'm getting tired of this community that constantly asks for Gravity to change/fix stuff in game because they seemingly can't achieve their objectives and get frustrated, and ask for a change instead of playing the game and try to overcome the difficulties. The main gate can be taken down very quickly indeed like the video posted here shows, there is no need in my view to remove the gate.

About the 10m radius, it got fixed and siege spam gotten better. I think it's fine how it is now but if a decision is made to increase that radius I'm not opposed to it.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 21 December 2015 - 07:48 PM.

Hello PVP Peeps~!

In regard to removing the main gate of Pronteara WoE Map I'd be in favor because it would allow equal access to all forts in Prontera. Each fort has its own unique parts for defense. For example, owning Prontera West will give access to sheep ranch Via Kafra Flyer from which South Fort can be effectively sieged with the use of catapults. Prontera East has a Kafra Flight that will take players to Base of Advancement which grants easier access to the choke point of the main gate. While Prontera South has the advantage of the main gate to the castle. Defense of the whole map can be choked off entirely with effective defense of the gate/orb in South. Removal of the main gate would allow guilds more opportunity and greater access to the map to maximize the options for all guilds attacking. There is not any significant evidence that even having the gate open would effectively allow another guild access to the castle.

I would propose a change in the game mechanics. If the gate is not removed I would suggest adding other orbs in the map that can be opened by attackers. My vote would be for Base of Advancement. As stated earlier there is a direct flight here to defend against attackers.

Please do not forget that while in Morroc WoE Map there are two orbs that give direct access to the emperium floor, there is no compareable mechanic to Prontera WoE Map.

In regard to the other topic this thread is about, which people seem confused on is

• Emp’s Radius: 10 meters away from the emp.

This would mean that siege gear CAN NOT be built on the emp, or near it for 10m. Again I would also be in favor of this. It gives a clearer target for attack, and it will also cut down on the lag that still occurs with siege gear. The recent fix was nice, but it was still not enough.

Edited by samaura, 21 December 2015 - 11:34 PM.

 

In regard to the other topic this thread is about, which people seem confused on is

• Emp’s Radius: 10 meters away from the emp.

This would mean that siege gear CAN NOT be built on the emp, or near it for 10m. Again I would also be in favor of this. It gives a clearer target for attack, and it will also cut down on the lag that still occurs with siege gear. The recent fix was nice, but it was still not enough.

 Hi,

Yes I confused. And I'm in favour of experiencing this change, it favours the current WoE gameplay of fast ownership switches during the game.

There is no need of ALL of attending guilds to join forces to bring the gate down. And there is no secret either as to how it's done. Two well coordinated guilds working together are enough, attract defending guild somewhere while another guild recalls either on South or at the gate to damage it. Divide to conquer, very simple and basic. Even if it's not a "1shot" recall as long as damage as been done to Emp or Gate, attacking guilds can proceed with their efforts to achieve their secondary but critical goal of bringing Prontera gate down.

And that is why South fort is very important to how Prontera WoE unfolds, I'm not telling anything new here by saying this. But we're getting off-topic and discussing too much in detail how to bring the main gate down and it's not really the main topic of this thread.

Although I do admit all attacking guilds focusing on Prontera can work very well aswell.

Why shouldn't the WoE maps provide similar difficulties without being copies of one another?  

Well that's the thing. Do we want similar difficulty on both maps?

I think not, and it wouldn't fit the Prontera "theme" and Morroc "theme" in my point of view.

Prontera how I imagine is a space well-guarded with lots of choke points, intense close combat fights and very much desired by all because it can be strongly defended.

Morroc on the other hand, is more opened wide spaces with less choke points and less dogfights, where time seems to expand and everything moves slower. I hope my message is getting through and I'm being clear enough, I'm not very good with putting out ideas in words.

But these are another reason why I enjoy these two different maps and to be approached differently, tactically and strategically. While removing the main Prontera gate wouldn't kill the differences, it would somehow deface Prontera and make it a bit too much similar to Morroc.

No other guild want to comment on this?   This is pretty obvious only 2 guild care about this, one defend and one attack - defend guild didn't agree and attack guild trying hard. 

Waiting others that hold morroc to give their opinion    

I want to ask Cartian and to others that agree with him on this point, why do you believe Prontera must be similar or "as difficult" as Morroc WoE map? Do we really want symmetrical maps ? Identical difficulty on both maps, either from attacker's or defender's point of view ?

Since you asked I'll give you a more detailed answer.  But it is already written in my first post.

Let's say two big guilds, one owns all of Morroc map and the other owns all of Prontera map.  Both with 100 people online and same spread in class / gear so both are capable of doing the same defense on gate and AoE on the orb.

For the Prontera guild, like we have all been saying, they only have to defend the main gate and south fort orb to secure the castle from attackers.

For the Morroc guild, they will have to defend the east orb, west orb, two back gates and one front gate to make sure nobody can recall next to their castle emp and dps it down in 45 secs or less like in that video linked up there.

So reasonably put, since there are 5 spots need to be defended in Morroc, they can put a max of 20 people at each spot to defend orbs and gates.

Morroc guild will look like this:

1) 20 people protect east fort/orb

2) 20 people protect west fort/orb

3) 20 people protect east back castle gate

4) 20 people protect west back castle gate

5) 20 people protect front castle gate

Prontera guild can look like this, if 20 people is capable of defending a gate/orb which the Morroc guild is limited to, Prontera guild can do it too:

1) 20 people protect south fort/orb

2) 20 people protect main gate

Now can you see all the man power the Prontera guild can save due to the main gate being there?  If you think splitting up force into 2 is a hard task, think about the people in Morroc, they have to split into 5.  What make people think the East and West forts in Prontera should come as a gift with the castle and never need to be defended?  How about splitting force there too just to be fair?  and that means removing the gate.

Then if you take a step further and look at the attacking scenario.  The Prontera guild can have up to 50 people on the south fort/orb and 50 people at the main gate. While the Morroc defenders must be spread out and be thinner at each spots due to the number of spots need to be protected.

For a random new guild trying to take a fort and debut into the scene of WoE, would you choose to fight against 20 people for a fort or up to 50 people to take a fort the hard way?

Alternatively, the Prontera guild can choose not to have the full force of 50 at the main gate and 50 at south/orb.  They have the choice to use that 60 extra man power to make an attack on the Morroc map.  Now this is only possible for the Prontera map holder, it is not possible for the Morroc map holder because their hands are tied by all the points they need to protect.

This leaves Morroc WoE map:

1) More vulnerable to random guilds attack.

2) Expose to unfair defending treatment that does not work the same both ways (Morroc vs Prontera map defending).

So simply put, Prontera WoE map holder is allowed to take advantage of the main gate, save their defense man power, at the expense of Morroc WoE map holder.

Not to mention, the extra 60 man power (saved from defending due to the existence of the main gate) can go and do some DPS on the Morroc east and west fort.  So at the 40~45 minutes mark when both maps' castles are considered secure, the Prontera guild will already have a head start on forts DPS compare to the Morroc guild that can't spare any man power to put into Prontera before castle is secured.

There is no reason to say no to removing the main gate unless people continue to want an unfair WoE by map.  Look at the equality that can be achieved when the Prontera main gate doesn't exist:

1) 20 people protect south fort/orb

2) 20 people protect east fort

3) 20 people protect west fort

4) 20 people protect left castle gate

5) 20 people protect right castle gate

^ and that is still a better deal than holding all of Morroc because with the same number of people, there is 1 more fort than Morroc.

Of course we want to have both map's difficulties being equal (or as much as possible), Morroc is being treated unfairly all these time and Prontera map becomes the sole beneficiary on the whole situation.  Keep in mind that time is ticking and points are counting every minute during WoE.  The two maps are battlefields at the same point in time, they should be created fairly.  

We cannot talk about the difficulty of Prontera without talking about the difficulty in Morroc.  As I have shown, in comparison, the difficulty of Prontera is relative to the difficulty of Morroc, the two maps go hand and hand and what happen to one can affect the other.  Just as the addition of Morroc WoE give Prontera WoE the boring atmosphere half the time in WoE sessions.  Since removing Morroc is not a solution the devs would take (I am guessing), pointing out that a change in Prontera WoE map is necessary to keep WoE going forward is more practical at this point.

In reply to the video on dps-ing gate, I'll be much appreciated if you can show a video of how much damage the same group can do on the gate on auto-attack for the same duration of time.  Let's just assume there are no catapult, no crossbow, no shield boomerang, no sin grimtooth and no priest/cres dotting your dps-ers.  Just motars spam within 10 seconds of each other.  Thank you very much.

Edited by Cartian, 22 December 2015 - 01:37 AM.

No other guild want to comment on this?   This is pretty obvious only 2 guild care about this, one defend and one attack - defend guild didn't agree and attack guild trying hard. 

 

Waiting others that hold morroc to give their opinion    

Do you see guild names in here?  What are you talking about?  As far as this discussion go, they could be all from different guilds that you shouldn't be concerned about.  Which guild people are in shouldn't matter, it is not like "hey I am in this guy's guild let's go brainless and support him".  We are all individual with our own mind and should be capable of voicing our opinion the way we wish to be heard.

We all have different opinions about this subject and glad there is diversity in how people perceive things. There is no right or wrong opinions on this.

Prontera and Morroc WoE maps have been like it is now for a long time, I just wonder why this comes up now. I agree, what WoE lacks is numbers. Most of you are being pragmatic in the way you think and express your concerns, I still think Prontera main gate can be taken down with the current guilds and numbers if there is will and know-how. Hence, no need in my mind to remove that gate.

And for the info, I belong to an attacking guild.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 22 December 2015 - 03:43 AM.

 there's no reason one map should be easy-mode defense, while the other is wide open for the the taking, 

Well, can you explain why we should have both maps easy-mode defense or wide open for the taking? I'm talking about concepts without wanting to be too much pragmatic here.

 

Of course we want to have both map's difficulties being equal (or as much as possible), 

Why? I don't.

Hmmm guys lets keep this thread healthy and not deadly. I suggested this change because I was looking for guild aka players participation. Yes we did merge Odin and Freyja server, I was and still looking for new frejyan PVP guild to join the WOE. And don't drag Morroc stick to the topic which is gate of PRONTERA and your opinions. Thank you all for your response and will read all of it. But please continue to invite your friends to comment. Once again thank you. We're doing this because we still play RO and love the game. Keep the community healthy yeah?

We can't disregard Morroc WOE Map in this situation since Prontera & Morroc WOE occurs at the same time. I don't think devs could seperate WOE times but if they do, it will also benefit the guild w/ the most number & to counter them could be making an alliance or even merge w/ other guilds not heallthy & since you are looking for other guilds to participate in WOE. They could make a castle owner though to not participate in the next war an hour after(to prevent guild members switching to an alt guild). To site this, hour 1 is prontera siege & strong guild got prontera castle. They then can't participate to Morroc w/c is exactly after the prontera siege. Offtopic & just a suggestion.

Contradicting but to answer the question, I don't think prontera woe main gate should be removed coz it has its purpose. the situation now is just easy prontera ownership since there is no challenge over opponents. morroc owners don't want to lose their forts thus less attackers to pront.

back when we had members attending WOE w/ more than 95 members, we only have prontera castle or maybe 1 fort or 2 if lucky but we are fighting more than 9 guilds. lucky to have south & delay morroc attackers since they have to run to south to open the orb 1st when main gate is still standing. now, removing the gate is just making south's usefulness & much easier pron castle siege will happen.

All of his reasoning is based on the premise everyone wants an equality between maps in terms of offensive and defensive capabilities, and that is the main point I'm arguing. I embrace the differences and adapt to them, they make the playground richer and more diverse. I've explained my reasons why I want to keep the main gate, he has shown his not to.

I would make a summary of all the pros and cons mentioned in the thread for clearer understanding to everyone but I'm too lazy for that, maybe OP could do them.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 22 December 2015 - 11:49 PM.

All of his reasoning is based on the premise everyone wants an equality between maps in terms of offensive and defensive capabilities, and that is the main point I'm arguing. I embrace the differences and adapt to them, they make the playground richer and more diverse. I've explained my reasons why I want to keep the main gate, he has shown his not to.

 

I would make a summary of all the pros and cons mentioned in the thread for clearer understanding to everyone but I'm too lazy for that, maybe OP could do them.

 The thought he says is prontera's current atk/def situation favors the defending guild. 

As he stated many times, owner of castle and south can defend those two easily and can also get two upper forts above. 

As he also stated many times that small guilds are heading to morroc cuz of that.

What he wants you to understand is prontera's owner can also come to morroc to screw small guilds over while defending prontera at the same time. 

Where are the people defending?

We wiped them

In reply to the video on dps-ing gate, I'll be much appreciated if you can show a video of how much damage the same group can do on the gate on auto-attack for the same duration of time.  Let's just assume there are no catapult, no crossbow, no shield boomerang, no sin grimtooth and no priest/cres dotting your dps-ers.  Just motars spam within 10 seconds of each other.  Thank you very much.

Hmmm, are you playing on testing server?  i'm sorry, but all of my WoE videos are based on real fight not a scripted

Thank you

I understood what he said. If you read my post I admit Prontera can be much more well defended in comparison to Morroc, and I don't see a problem there. On the contrary, I support this idea.