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[Proposal] Please remove Bowling Bash Cool Down in Renewal.


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#26 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:12 AM

Please delete your post. re-read my completed post which my cell didn't send mid-sentence, then reply.

Or better don't reply, since you're probably going to do another tl;dr hot mess that hasn't disproved anything I leveled at you.

Also 20% fixed cast time on all 1st/2nd job skills not an iRO custom.

Edited by Kadelia, 08 March 2016 - 05:15 AM.

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#27 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:16 AM

As I have mentioned, users have better options in Renewal to choose for no delay type spams, which would be DB and other skills that are stronger to begin with.

 

As for the case of WOE-TE, I have already mentioned how it can't be exploited or just become superbly obvious, and most importantly, if your concern is WOE, I welcome all perspectivess that BB continues to have its cool down in WOE maps, because I dont care as a PVM player.

 

kRO doesn't have this silly cool down so their knights were useful, I simply dont wish for sword knights to be done in by iRO as a valid choice for players to play instances (where new content is actually at) because of cheats in WOE.

 

Anyway, the fixed 20% cast time isnt even what I'm after. The build has it taken into account, plus BB's one is actually 50% fixed cast time? And I welcome it. I seriously think you just hate to see other class become viable.


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 March 2016 - 05:17 AM.

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#28 Ashuckel

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:25 AM

i know they can add or remove variable/fixed cast/cooldown/delay times to skills, but don't remember if they can do this selectivelly for specific maps


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#29 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:33 AM

I don't know about that as well, but mechanics in Renewal where
1) the fixed cast time being so high (0.35seconds),
2) adding on the variable cast time of 0.35 seconds,
3) plus lvl99s cant have 120 base dex
4) and that renewal instant cast requires 265 dex

means that you can instantly tell if someone was using no-delay in WOE-TE as a LK if he spams fast, because the removal of cooldowns will still mean that legitimate LKS can only do ~2 BBs top per second (which is similar with or without cool down). This is really about just RK's ability to tackle instance because BB is the primo facto key skill needed to generate enough skill DPS once you look through its third class skills. I have already mentioned it clearly in my first post though.

*Again, I will restate that if necessary, keep the cool-down only for WOE maps, I fully welcome it*


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 March 2016 - 05:36 AM.

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#30 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:41 AM

To my knowledge, kRO does have the *same* settings for BB as we do. jRO is heavily customized (in a lot of BAD ways)

What kRO does have that we don't are shadow gears that boost 1st/2nd job skills and a shadow set with -0.4sec fixed cast time.

I would be hesitant to iRO custom ANYTHING to do with skills I know kRO has tinkered around the edges with, because the last thing we need is a kRO buff melding with an iRO buff and creating a overpowering skill kRO didn't have.

Also I don't even agree skills should be spammed to begin with. Magic strings is the most overpowered, unbalanced skill in the game, to me.

Edited by Kadelia, 08 March 2016 - 05:43 AM.

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#31 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:43 AM

you dont even read or watch the vids do you?


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#32 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:51 AM

you dont even read or watch the vids do you?


I'm wondeeing if you did... since neither video reveals the character's shadow gears. And I can't read korean so I don't know if they're using dual kiel cards or what. Can you?
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#33 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:53 AM

To my knowledge, kRO does have the *same* settings for BB as we do. 

 

 

I'm wondeeing if you did... since neither video reveals the character's shadow gears. And I can't read korean so I don't know if they're using dual kiel cards or what. Can you?

so 2 kiel card will reduce bb fix cd in iro? or they have shadow gear that remove fix cd?
if yes then there is no need for this proposal.


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#34 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 05:54 AM

To my knowledge, kRO does have the *same* settings for BB as we do. jRO is heavily customized (in a lot of BAD ways)

What kRO does have that we don't are shadow gears that boost 1st/2nd job skills and a shadow set with -0.4sec fixed cast time.

I would be hesitant to iRO custom ANYTHING to do with skills I know kRO has tinkered around the edges with, because the last thing we need is a kRO buff melding with an iRO buff and creating a overpowering skill kRO didn't have.

Also I don't even agree skills should be spammed to begin with. Magic strings is the most overpowered, unbalanced skill in the game, to me.

 

Sorry Kadelia, I need to tell you that kRO does not have the same setting for BB as we do. The entire topic is about it, where I even provided video examples of kRO's spamming rates, and I have taken lots of time to dig through and make sure it was right. I even dug through the entire irowiki site to ensure that what I saw for the cooldown added in (http://forums.irowik...ead.php?t=70295) was only in iRO's maintenance board.

 

 

I did my search through this term in google. This is proof. There are several topics in iROwiki talking about iRO adding the cooldown, but none that involves kRO, which was also proven by the video I shown in my topic post.

Google Search: 
bowling bash after cast delay site:http://forums.irowiki.org/


 

*EDIT* just saw your part on the kiels and shadow and stuff.
You officially confirmed to me that you didnt read or watch my stuff properly. I have clearly shown that it is a cool down that's not reduced by aftercast delay gears through my second video., 1.2. There is no such gears that remove fixed cooldown, or I would not be asking for a removal, because first thing I would do is spam IB all day long. No need for BB anymore.

 

Kiels and other equipment that reduces aftercast delay do not affect cooldowns. It is also very obvious that it is a cool down as you can see that only BB has the cat paw (sign for cooldown) after it was cast. Skills that has real aftercast delay would result in all skills having cat paws.


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 March 2016 - 06:00 AM.

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#35 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:01 AM

Sorry. You have a terrible argument. Even if kRO worked like you think it does, it'd be a piss poor argument. kRO players don't abuse nodelay and packet injection like iro/euro/malay/phillipine players.

Seriously. Make a thread about poison react or backstab needing a buff. I might get on board. But when you're all "rune knight doesn't have enough pew pew" you need to sit down and let someone else have the podium.

Edited by Kadelia, 08 March 2016 - 06:02 AM.

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#36 Niloks

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:02 AM

To my knowledge, kRO does have the *same* settings for BB as we do. jRO is heavily customized (in a lot of BAD ways)

What kRO does have that we don't are shadow gears that boost 1st/2nd job skills and a shadow set with -0.4sec fixed cast time.

I would be hesitant to iRO custom ANYTHING to do with skills I know kRO has tinkered around the edges with, because the last thing we need is a kRO buff melding with an iRO buff and creating a overpowering skill kRO didn't have.

Also I don't even agree skills should be spammed to begin with. Magic strings is the most overpowered, unbalanced skill in the game, to me.

 

look me mom i didn't read the post


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#37 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:04 AM

Go read it then, silly.
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#38 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:06 AM

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you want to farm reputation, do it in other thread.

As for your no delay argument, so you dont even read what blackCross already write for you 3 time? or you simply choose to ignore it?
at least please explain why his argument is bad instead of keep insisting it bad.


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#39 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:15 AM

Sorry. You have a terrible argument. Even if kRO worked like you think it does, it'd be a piss poor argument. kRO players don't abuse nodelay and packet injection like iro/euro/malay/phillipine players.

Seriously. Make a thread about poison react or backstab needing a buff. I might get on board. But when you're all "rune knight doesn't have enough pew pew" you need to sit down and let someone else have the podium.

 

You are really starting to make a fool out of yourself now.

I have wrote a lot to back my points- which were all valid, that you do not have a single valid counter argument against. What you're stating now has no logical background to back it up and has started to get into the ridiculous zone. Even then, I will be nice to you and speak to you about your "points" for a last time.

1. kRO players do not abuse nodelay and packet injection because of game guards that iRO doesnt have, and probably wouldn't. However, as we talk about cheats here, the solutions to them should never be to compromise the game experience of users in order to solve the issue. Plus, the cooldowns actually did not solve a single issue because no delays can still be used, and no, they will not be used for BB, but for stronger skills like DB or cart cannons. I stated this over and over again, with numbers to backup, and yet you do not get this.

2. If poison react and backstab were key skills that GXes needed in order to play properly, especially for newer contents and thus stay relevant to the game, I would absolutely make a thread about it if i play GX. No reason not to, because that's iRO killing off what I love and was meant to work properly from the original game designs. Is there any reason for you to stop me from doing this for Rune knights? I only see jealousy here as the reason.

 

3. Your jealousy is not even targeted at the right place. I've stated a million times *to you especially* in current and past threads, that DB and sword RKs are entirely different because DB RKs are built differently, plus cannot solo play efficiently without MVPs (for which acquiring them then turns them into gods). Not to mention that they were meant as an alternative because their formulas are based entirely on HP and SP, where the entire skill tree from Swordsman, Knights, & Lord Knight won't apply. Heck, even the Rune Knight's own skill tree doesnt apply, except for Rune Mastery.  Sword RKs are the traditional swordsmen, and their problems I have clearly stated, has been caused by iRO's additional Bowling Bash cooldown, which I really hope they can remove- point of the entire thread.

 

I'm not going to reply to you again unless you start to make some sense. I hope you see how silly you've been and stop yourself before everyone starts to laugh even harder at you. 


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#40 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:15 AM

Classic bad arguing. Someone defeats your argument. You can't refute what they say. Put your hands over your eyes and ears. Pretend you can't hear them. Create a false reality where they didn't read what you wrote. Yeah! They didn't read it or refute my points! They're arguing for the sake of it! Everything I wrote is bullet proof! they just wrote all that stuff that makes me look wrong because they didn't read what I said juuuust the right way!

Please remove Bowling Bash's custom cool-down in Renewal. It is limiting Sword RK's DPS and abilities to play instances.

I have my full reasoning here:
https://forums.warpp...own-in-renewal/

This made me lol. Use ignition break. Your entire point is stupid. That chaser can spam 4 bowling bashes for 3k+3k? Grats! How about instead you do a 40k ignition break in the same span of time? The chaser can't because they copied severe rainstorm. But the crux of your [awful] arguement was sword rune knight dps has suffered [which it hasn't] huh?

</thread>

Edited by Kadelia, 08 March 2016 - 06:17 AM.

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#41 VModCinnamon

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:27 AM

Keep the heat under control please.


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#42 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:33 AM

Classic bad arguing. Someone defeats your argument. You can't refute what they say. Put your hands over your eyes and ears. Pretend you can't hear them. Create a false reality where they didn't read what you wrote. Yeah! They didn't read it or refute my points! They're arguing for the sake of it! Everything I wrote is bullet proof! they just wrote all that stuff that makes me look wrong because they didn't read what I said juuuust the right way!

This made me lol. Use ignition break. Your entire point is stupid. That chaser can spam 4 bowling bashes for 3k+3k? Grats! How about instead you do a 40k ignition break in the same span of time? The chaser can't because they copied severe rainstorm. But the crux of your [awful] arguement was sword rune knight dps has suffered [which it hasn't] huh?

</thread>

 

I know I stated not to reply anymore, but you're so silly I have to. 

 

Especially your new comment on the shadow chaser. 40K IB in a 2seconds CD, how long are you going to take to kill a clump of mobs with 300K with that? 15seconds?

 

All the while GXs are spamming RCs for 50Ks (understating for you here) per hit and 5~7 per second, resulting in 500K in two seconds. High speed spams results in a lot of damage over time. It was a given for RKs through BB, complemented by IBs every two seconds. Removing it SUBSTANTIALLY removed its capabilities. With each BB being 1000% per use, where its original intend was to be able to hit like 5~7? That's ~6000% per second. Or 12000% per 2 seconds. IB has only 3500% with Black Ribbon(WITH FIRE!). Even then, this isnt going to reach GX's level of DPS given that EDP makes their RCs hit about 2000% per roll (given the initial ~500% and EDP's 5x weapon ATK and 4x Equipment ATK). Or 24000% in two seconds just for you to compare against IB.

You dont get the significance that comes from being able to spam at high speeds, which was the reward of ASPD.

Even RG's Vanishing Point does a better DPS at this rate with Vanishing Point's spam being similarly ASPD based but has 1400% per use- OR 16800% in your 2 seconds against IB's 3500%. It even has range that BB doesn't, so that can be further multiplied. Except now we cant even choose to compete with that in iRO, because oh, BB has Cooldown that only iRO wants us to have.


*edit* personally removed all provocative lines. I simply wish to prove with facts only.


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 March 2016 - 06:38 AM.

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#43 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:38 AM

The change is to stop nodelay type spam. Which is not resolved. And no, I don't want to see bowling bash spam in TE.

This is when you start to mention about nodelay.

 

 

Hi Kadelia, you have obviously not read my content. I am reposting it for you here, so if you have a valid counter-argument I would like to hear it. FYI, I am in zero guilds and have purely been a PVM lover for the game contents and instances through role playing as a knight, for the years I have been playing RO.

 

  • In the case of WOE-TE:
    Renewal's Bowling Bash is different from Classic in that out of BB's 0.7 cast time, 0.35 seconds of it is fixed cast time that cannot be removed without having 120dex from temporal dex boots. This in itself restricts Bowling Bash from being exploited by no-delay lowbies since level 99 characters cannot have 120 dex nor wear temporal dex. Even if no-delay can bypass such fixed cast times, it would be very obvious in WOE-TE since no LKs should be able to spam BB at high speeds without 120Dex. If that is still insufficient, the cool down for bowling bash should just be implemented in the WOE-TE maps. This is important for the DPS of a Sword RK because of how third class skills were implemented through the considerations of their previous class skills (as in the case for BB), and more importantly for Sword RKs to be able to better tackle newer game contents where mobs have 200-300K HPs while bosses have like 12M upwards of HP.

 

 

But right here, as you can see, Blackcross already answered your doubt about ndl abuse that could happen if fix cd is removed.

Please delete your post. re-read my completed post which my cell didn't send mid-sentence, then reply.

Or better don't reply, since you're probably going to do another tl;dr hot mess that hasn't disproved anything I leveled at you.

Also 20% fixed cast time on all 1st/2nd job skills not an iRO custom.

This right here, you dont even try to answer or explain why ndl is still a problem even with blackcross earlier explanation.

 

As I have mentioned, users have better options in Renewal to choose for no delay type spams, which would be DB and other skills that are stronger to begin with.

 

As for the case of WOE-TE, I have already mentioned how it can't be exploited or just become superbly obvious, and most importantly, if your concern is WOE, I welcome all perspectivess that BB continues to have its cool down in WOE maps, because I dont care as a PVM player.

 

kRO doesn't have this silly cool down so their knights were useful, I simply dont wish for sword knights to be done in by iRO as a valid choice for players to play instances (where new content is actually at) because of cheats in WOE.

 

Anyway, the fixed 20% cast time isnt even what I'm after. The build has it taken into account, plus BB's one is actually 50% fixed cast time? And I welcome it. I seriously think you just hate to see other class become viable.

This right here is when blackCross again try to explain to you why ndl isnt a problem.

 

I don't know about that as well, but mechanics in Renewal where
1) the fixed cast time being so high (0.35seconds),
2) adding on the variable cast time of 0.35 seconds,
3) plus lvl99s cant have 120 base dex
4) and that renewal instant cast requires 265 dex

means that you can instantly tell if someone was using no-delay in WOE-TE as a LK if he spams fast, because the removal of cooldowns will still mean that legitimate LKS can only do ~2 BBs top per second (which is similar with or without cool down). This is really about just RK's ability to tackle instance because BB is the primo facto key skill needed to generate enough skill DPS once you look through its third class skills. I have already mentioned it clearly in my first post though.

*Again, I will restate that if necessary, keep the cool-down only for WOE maps, I fully welcome it*

 

and again.

To my knowledge, kRO does have the *same* settings for BB as we do. jRO is heavily customized (in a lot of BAD ways)

What kRO does have that we don't are shadow gears that boost 1st/2nd job skills and a shadow set with -0.4sec fixed cast time.

I would be hesitant to iRO custom ANYTHING to do with skills I know kRO has tinkered around the edges with, because the last thing we need is a kRO buff melding with an iRO buff and creating a overpowering skill kRO didn't have.

Also I don't even agree skills should be spammed to begin with. Magic strings is the most overpowered, unbalanced skill in the game, to me.

But here. you once again ignored him and keep saying we shouldn't do this. But again, you dont give any further explanation why it is bad.

 

I'm wondeeing if you did... since neither video reveals the character's shadow gears. And I can't read korean so I don't know if they're using dual kiel cards or what. Can you?

This right here is a proof that you dont even read earlier posts.

 

Sorry Kadelia, I need to tell you that kRO does not have the same setting for BB as we do. The entire topic is about it, where I even provided video examples of kRO's spamming rates, and I have taken lots of time to dig through and make sure it was right. I even dug through the entire irowiki site to ensure that what I saw for the cooldown added in (http://forums.irowik...ead.php?t=70295) was only in iRO's maintenance board.

 

 

I did my search through this term in google. This is proof. There are several topics in iROwiki talking about iRO adding the cooldown, but none that involves kRO, which was also proven by the video I shown in my topic post.

Google Search: 
bowling bash after cast delay site:http://forums.irowiki.org/


 

*EDIT* just saw your part on the kiels and shadow and stuff.
You officially confirmed to me that you didnt read or watch my stuff properly. I have clearly shown that it is a cool down that's not reduced by aftercast delay gears through my second video., 1.2. There is no such gears that remove fixed cooldown, or I would not be asking for a removal, because first thing I would do is spam IB all day long. No need for BB anymore.

 

Kiels and other equipment that reduces aftercast delay do not affect cooldowns. It is also very obvious that it is a cool down as you can see that only BB has the cat paw (sign for cooldown) after it was cast. Skills that has real aftercast delay would result in all skills having cat paws.

and again, blackcross try to explain things to you.

 

Sorry. You have a terrible argument. Even if kRO worked like you think it does, it'd be a piss poor argument. kRO players don't abuse nodelay and packet injection like iro/euro/malay/phillipine players.

Seriously. Make a thread about poison react or backstab needing a buff. I might get on board. But when you're all "rune knight doesn't have enough pew pew" you need to sit down and let someone else have the podium.

Here, you ignore all of blackcross's previous post and again keep spouting about ndl.

 

Go read it then, silly.

maybe you should read it?


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#44 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:45 AM

This made me lol. Use ignition break. Your entire point is stupid. That chaser can spam 4 bowling bashes for 3k+3k? Grats! How about instead you do a 40k ignition break in the same span of time? The chaser can't because they copied severe rainstorm. But the crux of your [awful] arguement was sword rune knight dps has suffered [which it hasn't] huh?

and for those who have this thought in mind, "why we should remove fix cd of bb? it is a weak skill. This dont really change anything",

feel free to visit blackcross's guide to physical rk. He already explained and created a build about how to amp up BB-IB build. But even then, it is still weaker than DbRk build, and as of right now, wayyy weaker due to change they make to BB that is completely unnecessary now.


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#45 Kadelia

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:49 AM

I know I stated not to reply but ... BAWWWaaaaAAAWWWWWWwwwwwWWWWW SNIFF sNIFF BAAaaaaAWWwWWWWW

Learn how to IB > BB > BB > IB and stop qqing on the forum.

<snip>


Edited by VModCinnamon, 08 March 2016 - 07:02 AM.
Really now?

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#46 DemliekCake

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:54 AM

Learn how to IB > BB > BB > IB and stop qqing on the forum.

let me humor you. Let see how far you will go.

You dont even read do you? He is trying to do IB>BB>BB>BB>BB>BB>BB>BB>BB>IB in the way is suppose to be.


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#47 BookishBrenda

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:56 AM

I'm all for drama, but what's going on with this topic... TwgqLbb.gif


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#48 HunYahiko

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 06:57 AM

+1

That kRO BB looks sick. But first things first, fix the gutter line bug.

 

And:

 

giphy.gif


Edited by HunYahiko, 08 March 2016 - 06:58 AM.

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#49 seaechiowai

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 07:04 AM

+1

That kRO BB looks sick. But first things first, fix the gutter line bug.

 

And:

 

giphy.gif

That chair must be made of adamantium.


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#50 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 07:05 AM

kadelia doesn't exist to me in this thread anymore. I truly don't see any value add. In before she gets this thread locked for going out of topic. May I request from Vmod that she doesn't continue harassing my topic? it's clear from her last reply.

*Just saw what you did that Cinnamon, thanks.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 08 March 2016 - 07:06 AM.

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