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#1 Feuer

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:20 AM

As far as my testing has gone.

 

Best 1v1 Class: Raiders [Dual + Katar]

Best War Class: Raiders [Dual + Katar]

Best AA/GA PvP Class: Raiders [Katar]

Best Open World Class: Raider [Dual]

Best GA Dungeon Class: Raiders [Dual]

 

That's all anyone wants to know, so let me know if anyone wants the details on other classes later on. 


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#2 OshOsh

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 08:40 AM

Hi Feuer

How about Knights?Spear champ

Raiders winning everything is kinda L A M E.


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#3 Feuer

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 08:54 AM

Knights:

 

General Ratings:

Survival: 4/5

Damage: 2/5

Support: 2.5/5

 

PvP:

Damage: 2/5

Support: 2/5

Survival: 4/5

 

PvM:

Damage: 3/5

Support: 3/5

Survival: 3.5/5

 

Pro's:

Good AD tanking. More AD's with appropriate Passives results in procing Damage + Defense effects effectively 100% of the time.

Good DPS Tanking for low damage + high attack speed classes in PvP.

Mid-High CHA viable due to needing Crit Defense, and providing large Max HP / Defense Buffs. Can provide Protection.

Taunts having duration makes aggro control much easier.

 

Con's:

Blocking RNG unreliable for Boss Tanking.

Protection / Guard have minimal effect on Boss Tanks.

Lacks Magic Resilience, Making them unable to tank Magic Damage Bosses + Classes in PvP.

Protection has little effect in PvP, can be dispelled.

Slow moving, can be kited with relative ease.

Lacks group support in the form of protection, guarding or bubbles.

 

Spear Champions:

 

General:

Damage: 2.5 / 5

Survival: 2.5 / 5

Support: 1.5 / 5

 

PvP:

Damage: 2 / 5

Survival: 2 / 5

Support: 1 / 5

 

PvE:

Damage: 3 / 5

Survival: 3 / 5

Support: 2 / 5

 

Pro's:

Access to large quantity of AoE's. Can be extended in PvE with the use of PvM Shouts.

Good AP Down on Unique Spells.

When built for Dodge, can be the main Tank in dungeons when Cleric Healer is present.

Large AoE Range.

 

Con's:

AoE Radius is only form of 'Range' Skills.

AoE's deal low damage compared to all other class AoE abilities.

Dodge cannot be reliably used in PvP.

AP Down's duration is very short and requires constant upkeep.

Lacks any form of Hard CC. [Stun, Mute, Sleep, Daze]

Jack of all trades, Master of none.

 

 


Edited by Feuer, 11 June 2016 - 09:00 AM.

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#4 thetrangdamvn

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 08:59 AM

How about BC?


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#5 Feuer

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 09:01 AM

I haven't tested the BC since v124 has been implemented, it's normally the second to last one I look at. 


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#6 DoubleRose

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 09:19 AM

What do you think of attack speed classes that have steroids based on hitting a number of attacks? (such as single target knight or gun bourg)


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#7 OshOsh

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 09:28 AM

Thx Feuer,

Very disappointing its just like i wont be eagerly waiting for the updates.Nothing changes same old same old.


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#8 Feuer

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 10:12 AM

What do you think of attack speed classes that have steroids based on hitting a number of attacks? (such as single target knight or gun bourg)

 

I think that they need to merge over those types of skills to the same skill set-up I got into the axe Champions 'Fury' stack mechanic. That is to say; once you hit max stacks, they cannot refresh. Once the stacks fall off, they can be immediately gained in progression again, but there would at least be a downtime. This should not only be applied to the on-hit mechanics like Adrenaline Rush, but also to the stacks applied to a receiver, like wounded or mystic weakening. Once fully stacked, they should not* be able to be refreshed, and fall off once the timer expires.

 

In effect, most if not all stacking mechanics should be restricted to not being refreshed once maximum amounts of stacks have been acquired. 

 

*Edit


Edited by Feuer, 11 June 2016 - 10:20 AM.

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#9 DoubleRose

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 05:50 PM

I think that they need to merge over those types of skills to the same skill set-up I got into the axe Champions 'Fury' stack mechanic. That is to say; once you hit max stacks, they cannot refresh. Once the stacks fall off, they can be immediately gained in progression again, but there would at least be a downtime. This should not only be applied to the on-hit mechanics like Adrenaline Rush, but also to the stacks applied to a receiver, like wounded or mystic weakening. Once fully stacked, they should not* be able to be refreshed, and fall off once the timer expires.

 

In effect, most if not all stacking mechanics should be restricted to not being refreshed once maximum amounts of stacks have been acquired. 

 

*Edit

 

I agree that strong windows of power are better than stats while in combat. Having potent buffs for a limited amount of time feel more significant to a player than being a little stronger while fighting.


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#10 8768160424095718987

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:10 PM

How about buffs in general and cha items? Were they heavily changed? 


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#11 VModCupcake

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:15 PM

How about buffs in general and cha items? Were they heavily changed? 

Pegasus is still up. You can log in and see for yourself  You can download the test server client here https://forums.warpp...lient-download/

 

It's currently using data from June1st


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#12 8768160424095718987

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:20 PM

I'm almost done downloading the client. Is it possible to get exact items I have on the live server in Pegasus? Sorry, being a newbie and a first time Pegasus user does make me as lowbie questions.


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#13 VModCupcake

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:37 PM

I'm almost done downloading the client. Is it possible to get exact items I have on the live server in Pegasus? Sorry, being a newbie and a first time Pegasus user does make me as lowbie questions.

No question is silly and if you don't ask, you won't find out what you want to know so keep asking questions. :)

 

When Pegasus is opened for testing, they basically copy the live server from a certain date and that's what will be on Pegasus. In other words, your accounts and characters will be as they were on that date. Right now, the data being used is from June 1. 

 

For this round of testing, everyone has been given free resets as well as honor, valor and premium points so people can test the Paradigm Runes and Elemental Scrolls.  Once you have the test client downloaded and patched, you can just log into your accounts as you would do on the live server. You can be on both servers at the same time, but if Pegasus needs to be patched, you will have to close all clients on the live server first. Then you can relog if you want to compare things between the two servers.

 

Whenever there is a Pegasus update, my antivirus insists that it's a virus even though I've attempted to add it to the exception list each time. Not sure why that happens but I wanted to mention it in case that happens to you too.

 

Enjoy testing!


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#14 8768160424095718987

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 04:57 PM

I don't have a max Raider in my character pool. Is it possible to have one by request in Pegasus?


So far from what I can say is the change is pushing towards more on party hunting and leveling. Going solo is much harder now. I wish I have max raider in my Char pool to test it further.

Biggest downside for me is the ATK SPD. I love the sound of high atk spd but now it feels very slow.

Edited by VModCupcake, 15 June 2016 - 06:23 PM.

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#15 carlosrose

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 02:51 AM

As far as my testing has gone.

 

Best 1v1 Class: Raiders [Dual + Katar]

Best War Class: Raiders [Dual + Katar]

Best AA/GA PvP Class: Raiders [Katar]

 

 

That's all anyone wants to know, so let me know if anyone wants the details on other classes later on. 

 

Eh.... Dont really agree with you on that

 

I tested my mage which is a 100% war build and didnt lose a single match in 1v1  (everything except for an artisan) O.o

 

As for AA/GA: Mages, Launchers and Charm spears will be massive

 

In terms of wars: scouts, duals, katars, clerics, mages, GB, LB... pretty much everything will be played 

 

 

My only "concern" is that now, the gap between cleric buffs and stat buffs is even greater so AA matches with stat buffs vs non stat buffs will be even more unbalanced... 


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#16 Feuer

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 09:36 AM

I just wanted to clarify that my final verdict on which classes ranked first in performance is not based on a case by case basis. Any skilled player can make use of any class with enough knowledge and experience with the game and it's mechanics.

My judgement on this was based on as many factors as I could reasonably account for. 

 

Those factors being:

 

- Learning Curve.

- Toolkit available to the class. [Like stuns, damage mitigation, burst capability, CD availability, etc]

- How each class performs in various activities.

- Reliability of those tools and mechanics.

- Ability to recover from mistakes.

 

and so on.

 

So while yes, many classes can be viable in the dynamic atmosphere of ROSE and it's classes and environments, Raiders have an answer for it all. However, many classes have weaknesses that cannot be covered, and if you're in a situation where skill level and experience is even, you will lose based on those criteria. 

 

Anyone could argue on a case by case basis that a class is viable, but when you look at the total over-all performance of each class as a whole, you'll come to the conclusion that Raiders have the clearest advantage compared to the rest. 


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#17 carlosrose

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 11:09 PM

I just wanted to clarify that my final verdict on which classes ranked first in performance is not based on a case by case basis. Any skilled player can make use of any class with enough knowledge and experience with the game and it's mechanics.

My judgement on this was based on as many factors as I could reasonably account for. 

 

Those factors being:

 

- Learning Curve.

- Toolkit available to the class. [Like stuns, damage mitigation, burst capability, CD availability, etc]

- How each class performs in various activities.

- Reliability of those tools and mechanics.

- Ability to recover from mistakes.

 

and so on.

 

So while yes, many classes can be viable in the dynamic atmosphere of ROSE and it's classes and environments, Raiders have an answer for it all. However, many classes have weaknesses that cannot be covered, and if you're in a situation where skill level and experience is even, you will lose based on those criteria. 

 

Anyone could argue on a case by case basis that a class is viable, but when you look at the total over-all performance of each class as a whole, you'll come to the conclusion that Raiders have the clearest advantage compared to the rest. 

 

Aii now then yeah I agree with you xD 

 

One thing that (imo) only hawkers have for them is the ability to perform solo without the need of any support by any other class as they are the only one with a way to stop being attacked right away and run in case is needed (stealth/cloak) Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig help o;


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#18 Feuer

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 09:23 PM

What makes Dodge an incredibly hard stat to balance is the fact that it's a mitigation that gives 100% Damage avoidance. The only way to control that is to have precise control over how frequently it occurs. However, it is plainly visible that the RNG system for ROSE is not always reliable, and can become 'stuck' in a series of repeating results [like failing refines 9 times in a row with a 80% chance to succeed]. So with ROSE's bad RNG or 'rolling' system, and Dodge being a 100% mitigation, Dodge can be reasonably called imbalanced as a stat goes.

 

I have a theory on how to fix it, by giving Gen more control over Dodge than simply RNG, but with the growing 'dependence' on Raiders to be good for people to remain playing the game, it would be hard to convince him to test the change. 


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#19 DoubleRose

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 07:08 AM

What makes Dodge an incredibly hard stat to balance is the fact that it's a mitigation that gives 100% Damage avoidance. The only way to control that is to have precise control over how frequently it occurs. However, it is plainly visible that the RNG system for ROSE is not always reliable, and can become 'stuck' in a series of repeating results [like failing refines 9 times in a row with a 80% chance to succeed]. So with ROSE's bad RNG or 'rolling' system, and Dodge being a 100% mitigation, Dodge can be reasonably called imbalanced as a stat goes.

 

I have a theory on how to fix it, by giving Gen more control over Dodge than simply RNG, but with the growing 'dependence' on Raiders to be good for people to remain playing the game, it would be hard to convince him to test the change. 

 

 

Do you want a pseudo random system? (as attacks miss they build up a greater chance of hitting on the next try and consecutive hits get higher odds of missing to match hit and dodge percents)

 

In short fights luck carries a lot of weight so a system that anchors toward the statistical outcome of many trials makes the odds less random.


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#20 Feuer

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 10:00 AM

TL;DR

Spoiler

 

No, you simply have to take the RNG out of the mechanic. Recently developed RNG's are pretty effective, but ROSE's is rather old, really old. Nothing is truly random in computing, there's always some mechanic that needs to be defined and parameters set; for a truly random generator might get requested for a 'succeed' or 'fail' prompt but instead of either, it might give you 'banana' or '147', it might even flat out refuse to give you a response. Anyway,

 

No, the idea I had was to evolve this 'dodge' system into a rating system [Like Critical Rating] where you can see your chance to 'Dodge' and append Accuracy to that system. 

Then take that Boolean [true/false] response, and have it be a mitigation amount in the form of 'deflection'. 

 

So, in the end you'd end up with a rating% chance to deflect incoming hits, chance to hit an enemy through their deflection [accuracy], and the amount of damage mitigated via deflection. Almost a clone to 'blocking' except it requires no off-hand, can be increased to 'deflecting' 100% of the damage via certain CD's [Like Camo, Stealth, Evasive Guard] and then your other Soft CC's could function as a way to increase your chance to proc a deflected attack. [Like Blind]

 

But then again, internally you effectively HAVE a rating system for dodge, you just can't see it in the tooltips in game. But improving that dodge RNG arbitrarily without addressing the other half of the mechanic would be well, redundant. That's why you make it so Dodge, does not evade all damage. It would deflect portions of damage which is modified by stats and skills, potentially up to 100% deflected. 

 

The benefit of a system like that would be that you could finally give classes like Spear Champions, BC's, Scouts legitimate rating %'s to 'Dodge' or 'Deflect' damage. It wouldn't be entirely based on an arbitrary ## against ## to determine the chance. 


Edited by Feuer, 20 June 2016 - 10:02 AM.

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