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About the map in PvP areas .


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#51 Span

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 01:57 AM

Among all the games i have played with or without the PvP system , none really NONE of them have maps that shows where enemies are , especially FPS games . And how in the world are u peeps gonna plan a strategy / ambush when the map shows exactly where u r and where ur heading about 50 meters away from their current position ?

Call me stupid, but I'd really like to know what this 'strategy' is, that you have been referring to in this entire thread? Please explain.
Because the only 'strategy' that I can think of that would result from the removal, is having to continuously swirl your camera 360 degrees around whilst fighting an enemy and become dizzy or feel like vomiting afterwards
In fact, I wouldn't call this a 'strategy', but rather a major inconvenience.

If this is what you really mean by 'strategy' then I would much rather get ambushed by 50 people from the other team.



Also, if you want to stop campers from kissing the wall to detect and shout which side the attackers will use the tunnels, all you need to do is extend the attackers spawn base further back.
But then again who am I kidding? Devs will never implement such simple solutions like these. Instead they will invent things like triangular blocks to be placed on the spawn which have no function other than to block players from conveniently rushing down the spawn.


Do FPS game players have vomit all over their computer ? I must be special then ...

@Span
Well there is no difference, removing the Dots and removing the mini maps is the same thing. Why would you need the mini maps when you wont see the dots? Wouldnt it just be a blank landscape ...


PvP isn't just for old players that had memorized every section and corner of the map ... And its red dots , u still need to find ur allies to help them or whatsoever ur going to do with them .

Edited by Span, 12 December 2010 - 02:17 AM.

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#52 poopiehead

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 02:25 AM

Well ... so far I have seen only people have interest on the winning side and never took the effort to fight. Even as you described as people will play for the "more exciting side" but its only for the first 5 minutes. When its overwhelm and he dont think he/she can kill anything, they will log back out to the winning side. The only positive thing was for the proof when they join the "more exciting side" .....


do u afk in uw's?
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#53 twitch

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

so u said it doesnt matter then why are u against it if it doesnt matter duh!~
@hellguardian
u said that with or without map clan needs to put effort on the war
only thing im sayng is without the map
clans would put extra effort and extra care while doing wars coz they dont have radar

wow are you stupid retarded or mentally ill?i said it dosnt show more skill to use it or dont use it like raw said there is no "strategy" with this the only strategy would be ambushing a spot when u have 10 people and they have 50 before you talk about something make sure you know what your talking about your posts have been completley useless and shouldnt even be read dont waste your time here.
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#54 Gwyn

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:50 PM

wow are you stupid retarded or mentally ill?i said it dosnt show more skill to use it or dont use it like raw said there is no "strategy" with this the only strategy would be ambushing a spot when u have 10 people and they have 50 before you talk about something make sure you know what your talking about your posts have been completley useless and shouldnt even be read dont waste your time here.

ure a dumb guy he edited his post
stupid nerd needs to calm down
its not as if they gonna take ure toy map off of the game
i can understand that ure too weak when theres no map lol lol major lol
crying over minimap
the minimap will stay so dont cry u little baby

and thnxx for bieng an-_- ure flaming by calling me names u dumb monkey

Edited by Gwyn, 12 December 2010 - 07:53 PM.

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#55 BrownBear

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:56 PM

You can't compare this game to an FPS. Knowing where your opponent is doesn't win the battle for you. You still need to engage and beat them. Whereas in an FPS, it literally can win the battle for you to sneak attack everyone.

Gwynn is resorting to name calling now. I think we can stop taking him/her seriously. Yes the same applies to twitch.




the side with fewer players will have a better chance of winning if there isnt a minimap.

Yeah....no.

Edited by BrownBear, 12 December 2010 - 07:56 PM.

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#56 Gwyn

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:57 PM

he flamed first u know
and im not in the mood to be civil
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#57 twitch

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 08:03 PM

You can't compare this game to an FPS. Knowing where your opponent is doesn't win the battle for you. You still need to engage and beat them. Whereas in an FPS, it literally can win the battle for you to sneak attack everyone.

Gwynn is resorting to name calling now. I think we can stop taking him/her seriously. Yes the same applies to twitch.





Yeah....no.

yeah ill stop just got a bit mad its true i flamed just duno why he couldnt understand such a simple thing kk besides that;
sorry bout that
i thought about the raider thing and the mini map and i now do agree that they shouldnt show cause you could still see them with buffs and they should also fix the problem when u click and they cloak ur sitll hitting him aslong as u have target on him
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#58 Gwyn

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 08:08 PM

apology accepted if it was directed to me
so i apologize too
i havnt eaten yet so im on the edge
maybe we should just agree on dis agreeing if that even made any sense
coz no one will budge

Edited by Gwyn, 12 December 2010 - 08:09 PM.

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#59 Akayo

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:29 AM

i thought about the raider thing and the mini map and i now do agree that they shouldnt show cause you could still see them with buffs and they should also fix the problem when u click and they cloak ur sitll hitting him aslong as u have target on him

I would rather have the buffs become invisible than have the dot on the map dissapear.

@OP: Please enlighten me on how not using the map invovles anymore skill than using it. Paying attention to the map enables you to see what's happening overall, without having to span your camera 360 degrees every second, and establish a strategy based on what you see.

Removing the map would do nothing more than cause everyone to run around blind; I highly doubt any side would be organized enough to set up an ambush and for the most part, the war would invovle everyone picking off the person right infront of them as opposed to focusing on the minimap and the movement of the enemy side as a whole.
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#60 Span

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:43 AM

I would rather have the buffs become invisible than have the dot on the map dissapear.

@OP: Please enlighten me on how not using the map invovles anymore skill than using it. Paying attention to the map enables you to see what's happening overall, without having to span your camera 360 degrees every second, and establish a strategy based on what you see.

Removing the map would do nothing more than cause everyone to run around blind; I highly doubt any side would be organized enough to set up an ambush and for the most part, the war would invovle everyone picking off the person right infront of them as opposed to focusing on the minimap and the movement of the enemy side as a whole.


This isn't about skill , as we all know the current PvP system sucks and so does the faction wars . With the map , its all about ganging and running away ( Maybe some 1 on 1 ) but all these doesn't seem like a 'war' to me . Especially peeps with freaking speed gears able to run around safely , knowing theres no enemies around and yet u call this a war .

And for the last time , i didn't proposed for the map removal but


remove the enemy dots on the map


Y would people run around blindly ? Its clearly stated in the quest who is attacker and who is defender , what they should do and where . And if u look at the faction war's map , theres a lot of towers surrounding the map , don't tell me people can't hide there .


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#61 Akayo

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:17 PM

This isn't about skill

having no minimaps is cooler and needs more skill


How would removing enemy dots stop people from running and ganging... If anything, it would be more difficult to chase people. Those with mspd gear would still be able to run around safely even if they can't see enemies on the minimap because the enemies wouldn't be able to see them either.

Y would people run around blindly ? Its clearly stated in the quest who is attacker and who is defender , what they should do and where . And if u look at the faction war's map , theres a lot of towers surrounding the map , don't tell me people can't hide there .

You missed my point. People would still know their objectives but they would be running blindly to them; not knowing what's happening at the crystal or who's coming would prevent them from being able to form a good strategy. They wouldn't know if they're walking into a slaughter house or an empty field. Like I said, most people would be focusing on what's right infront of them as opposed to planning ahead by paying attention to the minimap and what's happening around them.

If you're looking for a real ''war'' then why would you encourage hiding... That's definitely going to make wars exciting.

Edited by Akayo, 13 December 2010 - 12:19 PM.

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#62 TankJr

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:20 PM

they definitly should disable it, if someone is cloaked
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#63 twitch

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:01 PM

for the statement about people running around and u said its isnt a war well tbh irl war's you need to know when to keep moving ahead and when to retreat so actually this is a war strategy

i also would want the buffs but taken out then the red dot it'll give it more of a cloak feel cause in crowd of red dots u wont know wheres the cloak at :)
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#64 Span

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:37 AM

How would removing enemy dots stop people from running and ganging... If anything, it would be more difficult to chase people. Those with mspd gear would still be able to run around safely even if they can't see enemies on the minimap because the enemies wouldn't be able to see them either.



Ganging exists because people tend to team up in a group and walk around finding single targets then run out and gang , if the map doesn't show where and how big is the enemies group , how the heck r they gonna be able to gang . Also how would they be able to run without knowing which direction is safe ? And your forgetting y alliance chat exist .

You missed my point. People would still know their objectives but they would be running blindly to them; not knowing what's happening at the crystal or who's coming would prevent them from being able to form a good strategy. They wouldn't know if they're walking into a slaughter house or an empty field. Like I said, most people would be focusing on what's right infront of them as opposed to planning ahead by paying attention to the minimap and what's happening around them.

If you're looking for a real ''war'' then why would you encourage hiding... That's definitely going to make wars exciting.


The 'strategy' may not work well on the defenders side but what about the attackers ? And thats why we have scouts and raiders that would probably work as uhm scouts , reporting what they see or etc . About the people focusing whatever in front of em then ur wrong , i've been a defender myself and i see plenty of mates just clearing the ones hitting the crystals . I'm just not pleased with the present war condition , its heavily based on the number of people and the 'good' fights i get is like once in 50 wars ?




for the statement about people running around and u said its isnt a war well tbh irl war's you need to know when to keep moving ahead and when to retreat so actually this is a war strategy

i also would want the buffs but taken out then the red dot it'll give it more of a cloak feel cause in crowd of red dots u wont know wheres the cloak at :)


Lets not make raiders overrated again lol , i'm fine with their cloak not showing their buffs but the red dots has to go .

Edited by Span, 14 December 2010 - 01:38 AM.

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#65 BrownBear

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 05:41 AM

The minimap has nothing to do with war being based on numbers.

Ganging in wars shouldn't be an issue, it should be expected. You are only going to be ganged more if this change occurs.

With the current conditions, I can use my presence on the minimap to lure people away from where they are. This can give my allies a timing window to hit that spot.

Also, it isn't like the minimap shows you every single person on the map. It only shows you people in your view. So it really just make it more convenient to notice people behind you and stuff without having to spin your camera around.

Maybe we can reach a compromise here. Keep the dots on the minimap. But only show them if there is no wall between the two people involved. There has to be a solid (really tall) wall blocking the view of the other person, not an elevation. Tall mountains can be included too. The important part is that they should be really tall, like the walls of Junon and not the shorter walls like the ones surrounding the side crystals or the elevated platform of the central crystal in UW.

That way if people run too close to the crystals, they will be seen on the minimap. But if they are in the tunnels, they can only be seen on the minimap if someone is on the ramparts or in the tunnel itself. Also take stealthed people off the minimap but leave their buffs showing.

Edited by BrownBear, 14 December 2010 - 05:42 AM.

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#66 Logi

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:19 AM

Ganging in wars shouldn't be an issue, it should be expected.


THANK YOU, for mentioning that, people complaining about it while its just smart to not go out alone, if you want 1vs1 go TG. How can they seriously say "oh noezz 10 people kill me, thats so unfair" while UW is a teameffort. Thats its annoying to get ganged by 20 people when you dont expect it... granted, it is!

After reading some posts, I tend to change my opinion. Just leave it as it is, and lets get some changes to the skillsystem/balancing and most of all: a change to the UW map.
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#67 Soda

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:01 AM

suggesting a "balance" and yet he's the one leeching pts on the winning side *cough*

if they remove the map in UW be sure to clean my puke. Thanks.

Edited by Soda, 14 December 2010 - 10:04 AM.

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#68 twitch

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:51 AM

a change to the UW map.

agreed
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