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Crazy spear range with rune bonuses.


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#1 iRaphael

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:28 AM

So even scouts can't attack spears without being caught in there aoe range. This is pure blasphemy.It's not exactly a bug, but a very hasty impulsive weak unthought out update smh. It would've been better if they had a better blue print and tested it before implementing it into the server.


Edited by iRaphael, 20 February 2017 - 10:29 AM.

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#2 carlosrose

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:09 PM

Combined with a spammable debuff......
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#3 Cortiz

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:23 PM

I agree to much ranged, in combination with other AOE range increasement factors.

Something should be done about this.


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#4 iRaphael

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

Kindly move topic into bug reporting please.


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#5 Feuer

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 03:57 PM

Just saying, you can use AoE Radius on Poison Arrow Shower with the Skill Range combination to get absolutely absurd Scout range + Scout AoE Range.... 


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#6 iRaphael

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:46 PM

Are you comparing poison shower of a scout to aoes form a champ ? lol

 

 


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#7 Feuer

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:28 PM

Considering the larger the Range, the less damage the AoE does to each target, Both really only have 2 threatening AoEs. Poison Arrow Shower + Fire Sweep. Fire Sweep is a local AoE, while PaS is a ranged Cast AoE. Meaning the Scout can actually AoE nearly 2 times further. 

 

Also, Having a huge AoE Radius is not wise at all. It may seem like a good idea, but when you factor in the fact you're trying to score KO's, reducing your Damage to laughably low amounts just isn't effective. In fact, since the change, My spear specifically dropped AoE Radius as much as possible. I only want to hit anyone in my immediate proximity, so as to apply pressure where it's needed, instead of just everywhere and inefficiently. I've tried to teach some players this but they don't exactly seem to grasp the concept.

Big AoE Radius = Less Damage, more Spread, Less pressure where it matters.

Condense AoE Radius = More Damage, less Spread, More Pressure where you need it. 

 

It's a huge radius, but ultimately it's not an effective thing to do. Unless your* ONLY goal is to be annoying with status downs and Decloaks.... then sure, go nuts. Waste of a rune slot though if you ask me. 


Edited by Feuer, 20 February 2017 - 05:29 PM.

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#8 henrycao

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:22 PM

Considering the larger the Range, the less damage the AoE does to each target, Both really only have 2 threatening AoEs. Poison Arrow Shower + Fire Sweep. Fire Sweep is a local AoE, while PaS is a ranged Cast AoE. Meaning the Scout can actually AoE nearly 2 times further. 

 

Also, Having a huge AoE Radius is not wise at all. It may seem like a good idea, but when you factor in the fact you're trying to score KO's, reducing your Damage to laughably low amounts just isn't effective. In fact, since the change, My spear specifically dropped AoE Radius as much as possible. I only want to hit anyone in my immediate proximity, so as to apply pressure where it's needed, instead of just everywhere and inefficiently. I've tried to teach some players this but they don't exactly seem to grasp the concept.

Big AoE Radius = Less Damage, more Spread, Less pressure where it matters.

Condense AoE Radius = More Damage, less Spread, More Pressure where you need it. 

 

It's a huge radius, but ultimately it's not an effective thing to do. Unless your* ONLY goal is to be annoying with status downs and Decloaks.... then sure, go nuts. Waste of a rune slot though if you ask me. 

I think aoe range is the best =D (and not to be annoying)

 

It really depends whether or not it's a mass crowd or not. AoE clean up is great for KO's, catching fleeing enemies as they can't run out of a 34m radius in time, (debuffing them, uncloaking them as they try to escape) with AoE range on a spear, you don't have to see them to kill them. It also reveals the direction of the invisible target for a brief moment (the damage animation) which helps you and your teammates uncloak them.

 

Whether it's wise or not to get AoE range, it's completely dependent on the situation. Spears have no skill range.. So it's meant to have an AoE radius as a replacement. Just because it does less damage per target doesn't mean it does no damage, it just means it does less than what it could have done before the AoE nerf. Honestly... with a 34m AoE range, the spear can kite some low ranged melee characters.

 

(being a sword champ) There have been so many times when I was in a pvp and or a dp game when I wished that I had more aoe range.. Berserker's cry is a 10m base range, and there have been times when I got close to a fleeing enemy, used berserkers cry but the debuff (movement speed down) didnt apply.. -_- because the skill animation was so slow that they ran the 10m during the cast. So what I am saying is... AoE range is necessary. If i had like +12m range on a 12m AoE skill damaging ability, I would start using that AoE range to hit running targets. Swords only have 2 skill range damaging abilities.

 

Spears aren't meant to deliver single target KO's... They barely have any single target skills in the first place, if anything they would be out competed for them by other burst classes. Their best bet is to AoE KS people and hit multiple targets out in like the 30m range where other classes can not reach. Plus (I could imagine 1 spear AoE, can turn tides out near the 30m radius, let's say a scout is faced with a raider and both about to drop. The spear AoE's, though it may not be alot.. it saved it's team mate. whether little pressure or alot of pressure, it is still pressure. Where it's needed? It is needed everywhere because in GA pvp games, where there is fighting, there needs to be pressure.

 

2nd, 34m AoE range means that the spear can stand in safety with it's team before a fight and still be able to apply pressure. 34m AoE range, effectively damages salamander flames without needing to be close to the enemy cleric where it's often not safe because that's often where the smart squishies that deal crazy high damage are standing ... if a good cleric lives* so does the entire team.

 

Some classes are meant to focus on the big picture, (attacking every target such as spear), while other classes are meant to focus on the details.. (that being any class that focuses on eliminating 1 target at a time) We play our classes better when we play a particular class that suits our style and mentality. Feuer, you loved your axe, and I really think that you still have a mentality for single target elimination. Spears aren't meant to focus in on a particular section of the fight, it's suppose to contribute to the masses.

(I'll give another example: if a scout had the mentality of going into the front lines... they will get knocked out. But why do they do that? It's their mentality... they would be better at playing a character like a knight.) however it doesn't really matter. that much, people play, adjust and get better.

 

34m is like ... go into AA playing defense, one can just stand in one position the whole game if one chooses to do so if one doesn't die.. you wouldn't have to move anywhere in order to close any gaps.. in that sense I can see maybe that's a little crazy, but crazy is fun ^_^


Edited by henrycao, 20 February 2017 - 07:43 PM.

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#9 noobazov

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:16 PM

In my opinion , this is cool and makes spear champ relevant in combat and somewhat compenstate for the aoe nerf update which aimed to kill that class , In person , i only kept playing spear champ after that update because i had a long term plans about those runes and knew the potential of them.
As for scouts , skill range runes exist too and they can make scouts range much higher than a champ.
In general i really like this idea of work hard and get paid like that (irrelevant for now sense duping is all over the place lmao).
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#10 thetrangdamvn

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 12:24 AM

I'm waiting until the day you raiders or scouts ask the GMs to nerf your own classes respectively.

 

You always asked for nerfs on the class which you failed to kill or counter, while you don't even play them at all,

which is hilarious.  :heh:

 

I've never seen you asked for nerf on raiders/ scouts.


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#11 IMsellerbuyer

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:43 AM

In my opinion , this is cool and makes spear champ relevant in combat and somewhat compenstate for the aoe nerf update which aimed to kill that class , In person , i only kept playing spear champ after that update because i had a long term plans about those runes and knew the potential of them.
As for scouts , skill range runes exist too and they can make scouts range much higher than a champ.
In general i really like this idea of work hard and get paid like that (irrelevant for now sense duping is all over the place lmao).

 

I totally agree on this. It's about time spears get some decent game and damage since the CD were prolonged and the AOEs were nerfed. I think this gives spears to gain points in any arena without being raided my raiders or scouts. Unlike before wherein champs got no chance in clashes since the range were not that wider. 


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#12 carlosrose

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 06:04 AM

I'm waiting until the day you raiders or scouts ask the GMs to nerf your own classes respectively.

You always asked for nerfs on the class which you failed to kill or counter, while you don't even play them at all,
which is hilarious. :heh:

I've never seen you asked for nerf on raiders/ scouts.



Scout nerf? What would u want now? They have laughable dodge, inexistant def, no hp they only have skill power and range to get by which is fine cuz they are basically glass canons, high dmg outburst and no defenses

The problem i see with spears is that their range combined the spammble aoe debuff its completely broken, they are the only class atm that can keep an entire team debuffed even when the opposite team is purifying which is broken. Mages aural skill was nerfed so the debuff lasts 8 seconds and has a 15 secs CD and is just 1 debuff

If it was a single target debuff it would be compeltly different, but 100% succes on such a HUGE debuff (in war set can easily be 40% down def and mspeed (forgot how much down it was but still broken) and still deal great dmg!) and with THAT range is broken
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#13 iRaphael

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 09:58 AM

Scout nerf? What would u want now? They have laughable dodge, inexistant def, no hp they only have skill power and range to get by which is fine cuz they are basically glass canons, high dmg outburst and no defenses

The problem i see with spears is that their range combined the spammble aoe debuff its completely broken, they are the only class atm that can keep an entire team debuffed even when the opposite team is purifying which is broken. Mages aural skill was nerfed so the debuff lasts 8 seconds and has a 15 secs CD and is just 1 debuff

If it was a single target debuff it would be compeltly different, but 100% succes on such a HUGE debuff (in war set can easily be 40% down def and mspeed (forgot how much down it was but still broken) and still deal great dmg!) and with THAT range is broken

No sir, according to these people even if spear aoe range covers whole map they would say" oh mai gawd raider/scout so op they rekt us, why u talking about spear range oh mai gawd" 

 

 

A bloody scout can't even kite a spear and people think it's balanced. Comedy.


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