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#1 Feuer

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:26 PM

 
QOvESqj.png
 
Character Mastery: What is it?
Character Mastery is a collection of Glyphs that a player creates, equips, and ranks up to become more powerful, as well as specializing into a play style they want or are comfortable with.
 
Spoiler
 
Glyph Slots:
Glyph Slots are opened up upon reaching a new Mastery LVL. Each slot opens up at a certain Mastery LVL where a glyph can be equipped.
Upon reaching Mastery LVL 20, an 'epic' slot is unlocked where epic grade glyphs can be equipped. Epic glyphs can be duplicates of standard glyphs that stack together, or unique glyphs with special traits not found in standard glyphs.
 
Example Glyph:
 
HxDZ1dJ.png
 
A Choice: To Ascend or Not.
The Maximum Mastery LVL a player can achieve is 20. Upon reaching Mastery LVL 20, a player can chose to Ascend, resetting their Mastery LVL, but increasing their Ascension LVL.
Note: This will not reset the amount of Mastery EXP you need to gain Mastery LVL's! The more you ascend, the more it will take to gain Mastery LVL's.
 
 
What does Ascension Do?:
Ascending to the next tier ranks up your cosmetic icon on your character. Not only does your cosmetic icon change, but ascending will provide a large amount of Creation Pts and provide 5 Mastery Pts.
 
Spoiler
 
Creation Pts:
Creation Pts are used to 'Create' Glyphs in the Glyph Codex. Glyphs can only be created in this area, and are limited to the amount of tasks you complete each day.
 
 
Tasks:
Tasks are exactly as they sound, a set of objectives you take on in order to increase your Mastery EXP, and earn Creation Pts.
Each task yields different results, and can award bonus rewards if certain criteria are met. These bonuses vary, so be sure to check the Info panel to know not only what the bonus is, but how to qualify for it.
 
 
Mastery Pts:
Mastery Pts are used to 'increase' the rank of the Glyph slot specifically. It is objectively better to increase the rank of the earlier slots, so as you continue your Ascension process, the first slots you open, are the strongest. However, ranking up your epic slot, should you decide not to Ascend any further, could also benefit your character more.
The choice is yours.
 
 
Why a Mastery system:
With the current state of ROSE, we need a progression system that isn't based on the consumption of items. Not only could a Mastery system greatly diversify character builds, it could greatly reduce the incentive [depending on the influence of the system if implemented] to abuse item based progression systems currently in play.
 
 
Staff Investment:
This is the part I want to spend the most time explaining.
First, I've already covered why a non-item based progression system would be a smart move. But there's other factors going into it.
 
Item Mall stagnation:
There's currently an item in the Item Mall that's not longer utilized, Valor Quest Tickets.
By simply changing the reward to award 1 Creation Pt, you'd instantly have a reason not only for this system to exist, but for players to purchase the tickets, increasing your micro transactions.
 
Premium Service:
I'd like to first state that I fully understand the thought process behind why Premium was made trade-able. The general notion being that the people who currently purchase the service, might purchase even more if they were able to sell it. Sadly, that is not currently the case, due to exploitation in the community recently. With recent fixes aimed at the solution, this isn't as much of a loss anymore, but it definitely hurt.
But here's the rub. Premium only provides 3 essential services, and only two are used frequently in the reasoning process behind activating the service on an account.
  •  Increased Rates / Caps on certain currency/rate gains.
  •  Access Storage from anywhere.
  •  The most common reason, Unlimited GA energy.
 
The daily boxes, and other misc benefits are almost never a consideration in the decision behind purchasing / consuming the service. 
Now, here's where I work in some features that have synergy with the Mastery System and Premium.

 

  1.  5 Creation Pts per day with premium service activated.
  2.  25% Increased Mastery EXP per task completed.
  3.  +1 Creation Pt per Task Completion.
  4.  Unique Glyph Creation Chance: +2%

 
With those types of bonuses, no one would be able to argue that premium wouldn't have a valuable incentive. Not only would it offer incentive for early access / new players, even fully geared + runed players would see value in the Premium Service again.
 
Finally, Expansion Potential:
There really wouldn't be a 'cap' to the system. Glyphs could all be made on a Statistic / Rating system, providing longevity and flexibility in the future with possible updates, changes, balances or expansions to the game. And with those expansions, a renewal in the value of the premium service arises.
The systems mutually benefit each other.
 
 
To the community:
I fully understand, and sympathize with the majority of you who are asking 'why in the world would I want to pay for anything in ROSE when it's in the state it's currently in?'
 
Support.
 
It's as plain and simple as that. Support the game, support the development team, and budgets could allow for more quality, faster development and more staff over-all on the team. Is it a mental struggle to give money to a game that's struggling, of course. But that struggle is what hurts the game more than anything. Losing faith in the game that's given you entertainment for weeks, months, years, and even in some cases, over a decade, that can't happen. That's why if this system is implemented, I simply ask you support it, purchase premium even if it's only once or twice a year. If you can't don't worry about it, spread the word, enjoy the game and encourage others to invest a few dollars here n there. You'd pay for a movie you've never seen, why not pay for the future of a game you can't see?
 
Disclaimer:
I know that I only gave one example in terms of glyph strengths, and that's intentional. My goal was to present the idea, the core model and the benefits of the system. Numbers can always be adjusted and tweaked to provide the best results. If I'm given any say in how the glyph system is managed and balanced, I'll do my best to ensure fair, even results to the best of my ability. If I'm not, I'll be right there like I usually am, stern, stubborn and like a wall of steel until the right decision is made. I hope you enjoyed this presentation, I look forward to your responses, feedback and discussions.
 
Also, if you like the idea and want to show your support, comment, like this post, and vote on the ★★★★★ system.
 
~Feuer

Edited by Feuer, 10 August 2017 - 05:14 PM.

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#2 HoneyBunz

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:57 PM

Wow- I need to sit back and reread this a few times to completely understand it but first impression- I really like the idea. Are you envisioning this as a mostly end game thing or would it be applied to lower levels too? 

 

I'm sure I will have more questions when I have time to think and reread again so be ready :P


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#3 AyaR

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:46 PM

Love this, although i think there should be a limit of 3 or maybe 5 skills u can do this to

 

 


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#4 meocutduoi

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:58 PM

Great idea! I hope this will be implemented soon (after fixing Group bug)

Ty Mister Owl


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#5 8525170210021046490

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 06:54 PM

I love this idea. I hope this will be implemented. 


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#6 Cortiz

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:21 AM

I've had the privilege to get a glimps of this before it was posted here on the forums, I like this idea and hope that this or something simulair get's implemented.

There isnt much for me to say about it, other then that it slightly reminds me of another system in a game that i've seen.  (Not Rose related)

 

 

It would also be a good first step working towards other simulair suggestions such as a titles or achievement systems. ( I think  :huh: )

 

 

Anyway, here is a Rep+


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#7 Dragonlark

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:57 AM

While we encourage sharing your opinions on any proposal, please know that attacking another player, discussing private servers and using inappropriate language are all against our forums terms of use. Further behavior of this kind will result in post removal, and possible further moderation of those accounts breaking the rules. Please stay on topic, and make sure your posts are abiding by these rules


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#8 bertkilo1

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:42 PM

I like this idea to :D 


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#9 Snuwfer

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

giphy.gif

 

 

I approve, good to see the thread got cleaned up too.


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#10 Feuer

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:38 AM

Kind of a shame really, I didn't want anyone silenced because they can't express themselves calmly. Like, maybe he had a legitimate reason to not like it, saw a flaw but just chose to voice his opposition incorrectly. Now this thread looks like everyone's in support of it, because someone who disagreed was removed. I'm sure more people will comment and some will have complaints or concerns, but I wanted all of it here, not just most of it. 


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#11 Elovin

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 02:54 AM

Wew, i got to admit that as a not native english speaker I have hard times in understanding this :p_laugh:

So what i now understood was that we can empower skills to a certain Mastery level.

 

Upon reaching Mastery LVL 20, a player can chose to Ascend, resetting their Mastery LVL, but increasing their Ascension LVL.

I dont really understand this part. :sob:  Can we break this down to more detail.

So we can get mastery levels but also ascension level...

..omg nop sorry i reread it a few times now and just dont get it, so sorry is there a chance you could give a more detailed example?

I consider my english as OK maybe more people dont understand it :p_swt:

 


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#12 Feuer

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:12 PM

Ok in short:

 

You level Mastery by gaining Mastery EXP.

When you increase your Mastery LVL, you're given Mastery Pts [points] and periodically unlock new slots to equip glyphs.

Mastery Pts are used to increase the slots 'rank', making the Glyphs equipped in them, stronger.

When you Ascend to a higher Ascension LVL, your Mastery LVL is reset, but you gain an Ascension LVL.

This means your previous unlocked slots are no longer active, you have to unlock them again [You wouldn't lose your glyphs or previously invested points, you just have to open the slots again]. Gaining Ascension LVL's gives Mastery Pts as well.

This means, if someone never ascends and they get Mastery LVL 20, they'll only get 20 Mastery Pts. If someone Ascends once and get's to Mastery LVL 20 a second time, they'll have 20 + 20 + 5 Mastery Pts. 

 

Over time, it would get very hard to continue Ascending and gaining Mastery LVL's, [And there'd probably be a cap at some point, maybe] but the more you do it, the stronger your Glyphs can be.

-plus you get a nice little icon [and maybe a title in the future] next to your name-

Creation Pts are just a 'currency' used to create glyphs via RNG. 


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#13 HoneyBunz

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:09 PM

Just a few questions- is this for max level players only or what level would a toon begin to get tasks etc?

 

I know you showed one example of a glyph and I know that was intentional  but could you elaborate a bit on what glyphs would be like? Will they mostly be connected to skills or is all of that still open to suggestion?  It would help everyone get a clearer picture of the system.

 

I think at least new players get premium service for the daily boxes as well as the other benefits ( because of teletickets for example) but it would be nice to have a chance at something like a token that would give you x creation points and adding a daily bonus just for having premium status would really add to the value of premium.

 

In that screenshot your toon has something similar to what monsters have next to their names. Is that just a visual indication of whether or not you have ascended? Would that be optional? I'm just wondering if it's something that some people might want to keep private (like for pvp or w/e)

 

 

 

 


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#14 thetrangdamvn

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:14 PM

In addition to the 2nd question made by HB,
the glyphs, will first, be all hidden and it requires you a certain amount of Creation pts to Appraise/Realize or Roll the dice to open up a new glyph randomly?
For example, at first, the Glyph Codex will show the known glyph number as 0/30, as soon as you manage to realize 1 of them, it will be 1/30, and there's a page where you can check the realized glyph as well as the unknown "?" ones?

-----
Also, will these glyphs fixed with their stats, providing the same statistics to everyone or the players will have a chance to spend X Creation pts to Enhance the glyph's original stats? So that they can have better glyph than other people, but sacrificing more time, effort and luck?

-----
Can players reset their current glyphs' levels so that they can freely level up their newly realized glyphs?
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#15 Feuer

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:28 PM

@ HoneyBunz
I don't see any reason to exclude new or low level players from the system to be honest. The only problem I see with that is if they get glyphs for second job skills, that won't benefit them. But, since you've asked about what types of glyphs this system could use I'll cover my thought process on that as well.

 

I'd like to see as much diversity in glyph options as possible, and of course with in reason.

I can see Glyphs ranging from your standard stats, like +DEX, to statistics like +Attack Power % [let's keep them all %'s to avoid static bloat and imbalance issues if possible] to modifying skills to have higher performance [like giving Soul Wreck more Skill Power %, all the way to Synergy Glyphs that combine or co-op between active skills or actions with your passives and proc'd effects. 
I'd really like to see it at it's full potential, and I think not limiting what can exist, but potentially how many, would be the key. An example of what I mean was the comment "You can have only 1 copy of a glyph, excluding Unique Glyphs which could stack or be the same as a normal Glyph". 
So a small example would be:

You could get a Standard Glyph that gives you passively +10 DEX. You wouldn't be able to equip any more Glyphs that are +DEX, UNLESS, you got a Unique Glyph with +DEX. Seeing as there's only 1 Unique Glyph slot, the system would naturally cap itself at 2 of any duplicate / same glyphs, but only for one. 

As for the premium service or box giving you a coin that rewards creation points, no. I want absolutely zero consumables to work with this system, and I'll blatantly state that's to prevent duplication exploits, both at the present, and in the future should it ever arise again. So I stress, absolutely no consumable or item should be used in this system. It should be 100% content driven, and based on actions taken and rewards via the quest system or it's own unique reward system. 

As for the icons, I was just using a little badge I made and the monster rank icon as an example. I'd be more than happy to see icons that are made specifically for this system made, and would make them myself if need be. 
Hiding the Rank / Mastery Badge I'm stuck on.

On one hand, I don't want people to be able to lie about what they do and don't have. This can create toxic accusations in things like PvP where users accuse each other of being better / worse than they are. I don't like that type of behavior on a personal level, and I'd like to prevent as many tools for it to take place as possible.

On the other hand I can see where some people cosmetically might not like it.
So I'd have to say when it comes down to it, I'd be in favor of players being able to hide ranks, but only the ones they see. So if cosmetically you don't like the badges [or possibly titles] you can turn them off so you don't see them. But anyone who is looking at you and has them enabled on their client, should be able to see them. In short, you shouldn't be able to hide your rank from others. 

Hopefully that's helpful.

@Trang

The way I'd planned on the system being for creating glyphs was something like:
 
When you first start out, you have 0 Glyphs, 1 open slot, and 0 Creation Points.
Upon doing your first task, you can create a Glyph with the awarded Creation Pt[s].
 
When you spend the Creation Pt to generate a Glyph, the system will 'roll' from all possible Glyphs. Similar to the way the Lucky Spins rolls from the options, landing on a random Glyph.
 
At this point, you either choose to keep that Glyph by equipping it, or destroy it and create another. Now, I'm going to stop right here and explain why you must either keep or destroy and not store the glyph to use later in the spoiler below. If that bothers you, open the spoiler tag and read it, if it doesn't, feel free to skip it and continue reading.
Spoiler
 
Now that you've filled your only Glyph slot, you proceed to increase your Mastery LVL in order to open up more Glyph slots. Once you open a new slot, you can spend more creation pts to make more glyphs. 
 
However, the idea of a list of Glyphs, would actually be quite nice. That would allow players to know what exists. But the way you phrased it as being a list of ? marks, until you've created one and unlocked it's stats, actually sounds more fun. So maybe that should be a thing.
 
Your question on if Glyphs will be the same for everyone is a double answer.
If you both have the same glyph, and the glyph slot it's equipped in are both equal ranks, then yes. 
If you both have the same glyph, but their slot rank is 5 and your is 2, then theirs will give more stats/be more powerful.
 
Hopefully the rank system made sense. You simply spend Mastery Pts to increase a specific slots rank [which means any Glyph equipped there would be higher ranked automatically, you won't be leveling glyphs every time you get a new one, you rank up the slots, and the glyphs automatically scale up. IE, you only grind slot ranks once. Period.]
 
Finally, removing a Glyph. Yes, I'd thought of that already. The little red circles are used to destroy a Glyph, and open it's slot for a new one. Alternatively, it'd be nice if you could just drag the glyph from the creation area to a slot, and the game prompt you if you want to destroy the already equipped glyph and insert the new one. 
Either way, if you replace a glyph, the old one is destroyed.  [Note: This doesn't destroy Mastery Pts spent on the slot, it only removes the glyph. The Pts stay invested into that slot]
 
'Resetting your Glyphs' There wouldn't be a point to resetting Glyphs, but resetting your Mastery Pts [the ones you spend on the slots themselves] might be an option. Possibly costing a certain amount of zulie, performing a specific mastery task with a reasonably long cooldown [1 week+], or just freely resetting them. [Not really a fan of just freely resetting the slots... that'd be like enabling gearing swapping in combat, and I want players to feel invested into their Glyph builds. Something they can rely on for a long time]
 
I'd like to ask a question though at this point, because I've been making a lot of design choices and control, but one thing I didn't decide on was, should you be able to freely move Glyphs to other slots. That's what I'd like to ask from the community.
 
So, do you think you should be able to move Glyphs to different slots without destroying them? 
Example: Slot 1: Glyph of Dex [Rank3] Slot 2: Glyph of INT [Rank 1] 
Swap Glyph of INT to slot 1, and put Glyph of DEX in Slot 2. [Making the INT Rank 3, and the DEX rank 1]
If so, should there be any requirements, like swapping glyphs costing creation pts?
I'd like to know what you guys think about that.

Edited by Feuer, 13 August 2017 - 08:58 PM.

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#16 thetrangdamvn

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:38 PM

 

I'd like to ask a question though at this point, because I've been making a lot of design choices and control, but one thing I didn't decide on was, should you be able to freely move Glyphs to other slots. That's what I'd like to ask from the community.

 
So, do you think you should be able to move Glyphs to different slots without destroying them? 
Example: Slot 1: Glyph of Dex [Rank3] Slot 2: Glyph of INT [Rank 1] 
Swap Glyph of INT to slot 1, and put Glyph of DEX in Slot 2. [Making the INT Rank 3, and the DEX rank 1]
If so, should there be any requirements, like swapping glyphs costing creation pts?
I'd like to know what you guys think about that.

 

One should be able to move Glyphs to different slots, under the following conditions/requirements:

1./ Moving Glyphs costs X Creation Pts per attempt.

2./ Any Glyph slot will be on a cool down of 24 hours before one could place a new Glyph in there.

     However, one can destroy the current Glyph at any time.

3./ Moving Glyphs should be disabled in Game Arena.

 

Furthermore, I would like to see a "Scramble" button. Use it button to randomly rearrange your Glyphs

at a cost of Y amount of zulie. The purpose is to take away a good sum of zulie from the game.

(Although I want to see the system costs a% of the player's current zulie, it seems to be hard getting 

how much one have as they can possibly trade zulie to other chars before using this feature, to lose less.)

 

Paying zulie to scramble your Glyphs without moving and making the slot on 24 hours cooldown

might be a alternative to the manual move above, but there should be a cap per day, or it should costs a good

sum of zulie to prevent abusing.

 

 

 


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#17 Elovin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:37 AM

Thank you for ur quick reply and also the time ingame to explain it to me more detailed.

 

I still am not a pro on this topic, but u asked me to leave my thoughts here so ill try, please correct me when im wrong :p_laugh:

So I know I had asked you this ingame before, but i got confused with your new posts here and the examples with dex+10 and stuff. My (same) question is, how does it affect skills with debuffs. For example PVP-Coldsnap, which has a high damage, snaps the opponent with a 100% success rate for 8 seconds, and also debuffs the dodge. How would a glyph work on this? Would it increase all of it? Or would I have to chose to increase the dodge down, or the sp or could i even get my snap a higher chance to ignore resistance? Or would it affect all of it? I think i am still a little confused about the different glyphs Options. Or maybe still get em completely wrong :p_swt:

 

Ill be honest that i aint sure if id like the Icon shown, I could have a totally "useless" glyph on a high lvl (like mvsp), but have others very low or not even any other and people who would fight me in PVP-Zone would be like damn you have such high Masterys, how did you lose this or ofc u won this ( I can see the tting )

 

I also see a problem in supporting OP classes, I see quite a lot people complain ingame and on forums about certain players or even classes. Those glyphs would get them even stronger. As an example:

A mage on high range could go for even more range and would not leave any options to fight back for certain classes.

 

Also do i see a problem for new players or old players who consider to come back to game. A player who left a year ago, would have to level its char, get it new gear, rune it, get it new stats and gems AND get glyphs. What for, when you are a pvp player and the client crashes anyways, and even without crashes it would be a lot of effort and time to get a good char.

I consider the glyphs as useless for max pvm players atm. Farming and dungeon runs are no Challenge anymore even without glyphs and runes. I run with my pvp mage on Lumi through dungeons and hit like a beast and dont die :hmm: ( what about optional dungeons, where u can chose if u want to take the easy run or hardcore, so also not geared chars or people who want to lvl can still do dungeons)

Maybe getting glyphs and lvling em can be easier when you are on a lower lvl? that you dont need as much for it to up em? So new players would have it easier to get on a similar "level" as old players.

Ofc everything needs to be fully locked then, which leads me to ur question. As long as all masterys would take the same effort to up i would not mind if there was a chance to switch them, but maybe this can get a limit, like you can only switch them once but optionally buy (similar to stat resets) them in IM?

As long as no char can switch them adpating to every new opponent i dont mind this :p_smile:

So basically I really like your idea and the system (form what i understand) but I see so much stuff which would need to get fixed before.

 

Cheers :p_laugh:  ( is there a beer emoji? If not, its definitely needed)

 

 

 


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#18 CJGM3

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 11:43 AM

Wow Feuer, great idea!  

I want also a Leaderboard so you can see the Top Rank of Game Arena players, Player of the Week, Player of the Month. Like if you can see in the Leaderboard the top 10 of different department of PvP Arenas and Dungeons (Complete Dungeons & Record Time of Complete it). Will be good that you can see in the PvP Arenas also your kills & deaths, kills/deaths ratio, healing points, game arena points, wins and losses, wins/losses ratio. So you can see the leaderboard in a place like Junon in front of Honor Shop and also you can see your Game Arenas Information in your character info or in another place of your character. Also the top 10 leaders of different department of PvP Arenas and Dungeons will be good that the game give a reward of those players. This will motivate also all the PvM and PvP players.


Edited by CJGM3, 01 September 2017 - 11:47 AM.

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