Introspection, troops, and a sudden need for a drink.

This was an interesting line of thought, might as well share it with everyone as it's a bit big for a status update.

Through introspection we can see that we are still driven by the same powerful instinct that ensured the success of our furry ancestors, fear. Fear of what you ask? Everything. Without a social structure we have no support for whatever is to come. A lone monkey is vulnerable, but in a troop? Damned near invincible. Thus compelling us to seek one out for our own protection.

The first question to ask is what is a troop? A group of monkeys that have banded together to ensure survival. The troop, of course, relying on a set of rules and standards put in place to ensure the safety of the whole. Reinforcing behaviors seen as beneficial and punishing that which isn't, essentially brainwashing the young and turning the adults into the tools that do so.

It is through our drive to seek safety, find our place in the world, our troop, that we attempt to either find allies and insert ourselves into their social structure, or build one of our own by grooming those around us to conform to the rules and standards we adhere to.

So the second question becomes how does a troop form? Simple, by a larger, stronger, more intelligent monkey providing protection to a weaker one, in your words, enabling it, in hopes of forming a bond and in doing so either indoctrinating said monkey into a preexisting social structure or forming an entirely new one. Rules are then established by the stronger and adhered to by the weaker to ensure their survival.

The third question is once established, how does a troop ensure survival? Violence is, of course, the first thing that comes to mind. Warring between troops is quite common, but with each war comes more wounded, which means time and energy that could be devoted to growth is instead devoted to the infirm, diminishing the effectiveness of the troop as a whole. Leading us to the conclusion that it is far more cost effective to maintain territories and tolerate neighbors, treating them as equals in order to avoid unnecessary losses.

So to answer your question, no. We're not accepting lower standards in society, quite the opposite in fact. We're forming our own societies in order to establish and reaffirm the rules and standards we adhere to. While the event leading to you asking these questions is unclear, I can tell you that the willingly blind should be treated as equals as failure to do so only leads to more, hopefully metaphorically speaking, wounded. Instead of dwelling on what's lost in the battles past, dedicate yourself to growth. Indoctrinate other monkeys, build your troop, form your own societal standards, ensure your survival. Just remember that your time and energy is finite, and there is a point is which you must cut your losses and move on.

Edited by ClickClickClick, 06 February 2018 - 11:30 PM.

Occurs to me, I need to find a new guild here soon..

Not much reason to log in now that I don't have people to carry.

Hmm, not sure if we are getting at the same thing.

When I see people who just can't seem to take good advice and fly in the face of people who know what they are talking about, it makes me wonder if it is worth the trouble to extend them the courtesy of feedback. If someone asks for my feedback and I give a documented and informed answer with rational to justify it, I expect my feedback to be taken into consideration. That seems like dead weight to me.

Some people can't / won't be carried.

Offering guidance is very much in line with the stronger protecting the weaker. You're spending your time, effort and resources, of which knowledge is one of the greatest, in an instinctual effort to reach out to others. As I said though, it's always worth trying, you'll never know when you'll make a friend, but all the same, trying doesn't mean succeeding, and you need to know when to cut your losses.

Some species of primate will teach their young to kill snakes with sticks, it doesn't mean that many of them won't disregard it to play with the squirming green thing. Those ones don't last too long, and the troop is stronger for it. Or, as you said, you can lead a horse to water..

Feedback should be given without expectation. What the person does with that feedback is not our concern. After all, if you do not wish to give feedback, you need not give it. But when you do, once given, it is out of your hands. There isn't any point to holding onto expectations after that. Everyone is entitled to their own free will. The notion that our feedback must in all cases be considered seems inherently arrogant to me. It is not our power to dictate what others do and do not consider, it is only within our power to offer. That is our choice. The person who asks feedback does not guarantee to take said feedback on board, it is only to hear it. Other people's motivations are more often than not unknown to us.

To answer the question, you should ask for what purpose you give feedback. It can be for self satisfaction derived from the deed of trying to help, or for happiness derived from when the person takes your advice and prospers, or simply to assert oneself; it can also be because you genuinely care about the person and want them to prosper, or it can be for a sense of greater good where you try to make the community as a whole a better place by offering advice; inter alia. Once you determine why it is you give advice, it becomes simpler to answer whether or not you should give advice. A person who gives advice for personal satisfaction will typically give said advice regardless of its likelihood of being considered. A person asked for feedback may answer only for the sake of answering, and obliging the person who asked. 

Feedback should be given without expectation. What the person does with that feedback is not our concern. After all, if you do not wish to give feedback, you need not give it. But when you do, once given, it is out of your hands. There isn't any point to holding onto expectations after that. Everyone is entitled to their own free will. The notion that our feedback must in all cases be considered seems inherently arrogant to me. It is not our power to dictate what others do and do not consider, it is only within our power to offer. That is our choice. The person who asks feedback does not guarantee to take said feedback on board, it is only to hear it. Other people's motivations are more often than not unknown to us.

 

To answer the question, you should ask for what purpose you give feedback. It can be for self satisfaction derived from the deed of trying to help, or for happiness derived from when the person takes your advice and prospers, or simply to assert oneself; it can also be because you genuinely care about the person and want them to prosper, or it can be for a sense of greater good where you try to make the community as a whole a better place by offering advice; inter alia. Once you determine why it is you give advice, it becomes simpler to answer whether or not you should give advice. A person who gives advice for personal satisfaction will typically give said advice regardless of its likelihood of being considered. A person asked for feedback may answer only for the sake of answering, and obliging the person who asked. 

A dying man in the desert asks you for water, you oblige, is it arrogant to expect him to drink it?

When a request is made, and someone fulfills it, it only makes sense for the one who requested it to partake of it.

And yes, when I hand a kid a cookie, I damned well expect them to eat it, and say thank you.

Edited by ClickClickClick, 07 February 2018 - 12:48 AM.

A dying man in the desert asks you for water, you oblige, is it arrogant to expect him to drink it?

 

When a request is made, and someone fulfills it, it only makes sense for the one who requested it to partake of it.

This is the main vein of my sentiment. I admit I am more inclined to cut my losses early when I identify a user as a waste of time (or ungrateful).

Edited by Scuba, 07 February 2018 - 12:49 AM.

On the internet, there might be no discrimination but what if it was reality I think there will be. More than what virtual could pose. You say you are a good person but is it not just superficial and your pride doing it. If you meet a stranger passing a very cramped alleyway opposite your direction will you let him pass first or be wary first?

..what?

In the internet you can just abide by what the norms follows. You can speak what the most people believe is correct. You can display a false attitude towards everybody. In other words, we cannot assume anything and everything without a crystal clear thought of the things in front of us.

Please stop trying?

You have the power to make the suffering end.. for both of us!