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#101 tENLAVUU

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 05:55 PM

not here to talk "sh**" but i even stated that every class has somethign that can be nerf'ed. you even said it yourself that nerfing nades is fine as long as other classes get worked on too which of course i agree with. why you seem so defensive about it now all of a sudden? chill out broskee ;x

Edited by tENLAVUU, 01 February 2011 - 05:59 PM.

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#102 jagz

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 06:27 PM

I'm down for altering everything. Absolutely. Like I've stated, Ill go with whatever G thinks is best as he is probably the most unbiased, informed player out there.

I dont care what they do with them, If Champ's changed, I dont care what happens to nades.
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#103 twitch

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:03 PM

seems more as a argument thread then a discussion (i stopped reading page 2)

Anyways,i belive nades are just a bit OP i believe that they should have the cooldown higher maybe like 10seconds and give it like a 1second cooldown cause before i posted this i actually tested this stunlock scenario myself and it is not hard AT ALL its actually very simple.
ii believe that bourgs are very "boring" i dont blame them for stunlocking because thats all they could really do.what else do u want them to do?and bourgs aoe's i think should be up'd to 100% and for it to have longer cooldown with one second duration (stun aoe) so they could have 3 reliable stuns yet there not spammable.
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#104 Phish

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:43 PM

I've been talking to Jagz about this, and here is a proposal to adjust the crafted bombs for dealers. This change will give the class many more options to choose from in combat, but also ad a great amount of strategy when fighting. All grenades/bombs/explosives will keep the same 6 second cooldown, however, all of them will share the same cooldown except for the non status ones. (which should be seperate).


Dealer Bombs


Hand Grenade: Physical Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Acid Grenade: Poison (300 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Mana Grenade: MP reduction (35% mp down) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Flash Grenade: Accuracy down (30% acc down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Concussion Grenade: Stun 95% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)


Hand Bomb: Magic Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Bomb: Defense down (30% defense down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid Bomb

Shadow Bomb: Dodge Down (30% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Bomb

Sticky Bomb: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (30% aspeed/mspeed down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash Bomb


Artisan Bombs:


Explosive: Physical Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Napalm Explosive: Burn (500 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formely Acid Explosive

Silence Explosive: Mute (4 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Explosive

Flash Explosive: Accuracy down (40% acc down/10 second duration) NO DAMAGE

Concussion Explosive: Aoe Stun 95% success (6m radius) 100% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)



High Explosive: Magic Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Explosive: Defense down (40% def down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid High Explosive

Shadow Explosive: Dodge Down (40% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana High Explosive

Sticky Explosive: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (40% aspeed/mspeed down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash High Explosive



By keeping them on the same cooldown, it gives the user an array of options but they must choose which will be the best for the scenario. Do I want to stun my enemy right off the bat? (Keep in mind the stun bombs will do no damage now) If I do, I will have to wait 6 seconds before I can stun him again, but in doing so I won't be able to deal any status effects. Likewise, if I want to hit that dastardly champ with a defense down so I can deal more damage, I won't be able to stun him right afterwards.



Let me know your thoughts.
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#105 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:45 PM

pretty well thought out....

its pretty much detailed and i cant seem to find a reason to disagree on the above suggested balances

but 95% success for a stun always hurts but cant be helped

i have pretty much liked it.....cant say about others

+1
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#106 Gojio

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:18 AM

I've been talking to Jagz about this, and here is a proposal to adjust the crafted bombs for dealers. This change will give the class many more options to choose from in combat, but also ad a great amount of strategy when fighting. All grenades/bombs/explosives will keep the same 6 second cooldown, however, all of them will share the same cooldown except for the non status ones. (which should be seperate).


Dealer Bombs


Hand Grenade: Physical Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Acid Grenade: Poison (300 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Mana Grenade: MP reduction (35% mp down) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Flash Grenade: Accuracy down (30% acc down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Concussion Grenade: Stun 95% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)


Hand Bomb: Magic Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Bomb: Defense down (30% defense down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid Bomb

Shadow Bomb: Dodge Down (30% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Bomb

Sticky Bomb: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (30% aspeed/mspeed down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash Bomb


Artisan Bombs:


Explosive: Physical Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Napalm Explosive: Burn (500 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formely Acid Explosive

Silence Explosive: Mute (4 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Explosive

Flash Explosive: Accuracy down (40% acc down/10 second duration) NO DAMAGE

Concussion Explosive: Aoe Stun 95% success (6m radius) 100% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)



High Explosive: Magic Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Explosive: Defense down (40% def down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid High Explosive

Shadow Explosive: Dodge Down (40% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana High Explosive

Sticky Explosive: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (40% aspeed/mspeed down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash High Explosive



By keeping them on the same cooldown, it gives the user an array of options but they must choose which will be the best for the scenario. Do I want to stun my enemy right off the bat? (Keep in mind the stun bombs will do no damage now) If I do, I will have to wait 6 seconds before I can stun him again, but in doing so I won't be able to deal any status effects. Likewise, if I want to hit that dastardly champ with a defense down so I can deal more damage, I won't be able to stun him right afterwards.



Let me know your thoughts.


That is a decend idea Adam, maybe the debuffs could be a little worse cause they're all 30-40% (that's a lot :D) but yes, it's something I'd be fine with.
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#107 Phish

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:55 AM

Well, the thing is the debuffs won't be doning any damage, plus you won't be able to do more than one at once. (If needed the duration could be lowered to 6 seconds so that by the time the cooldown of the bombs end, the debuff ends.) Also, the bombs take time/mats to craft so they should be worthwhile.
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#108 ZookeeperAndy

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:00 AM

Combining Adam's adjusted explosives with the ammo proposal I had would definitely make bourgs\artis two of the more versatile classes in the game, without even having to adjust their skills.

Edited by ZookeeperAndy, 03 February 2011 - 08:38 AM.

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#109 Dusk1PS

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:31 AM

Combining Adam's adjusted explosives with the ammo proposal I had would definitely make bourgs\artis one of the more versatile classes in the game, without even having to adjust their skills.


I've been talking to Jagz about this, and here is a proposal to adjust the crafted bombs for dealers. This change will give the class many more options to choose from in combat, but also ad a great amount of strategy when fighting. All grenades/bombs/explosives will keep the same 6 second cooldown, however, all of them will share the same cooldown except for the non status ones. (which should be seperate).


Dealer Bombs


Hand Grenade: Physical Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Acid Grenade: Poison (300 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Mana Grenade: MP reduction (35% mp down) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Flash Grenade: Accuracy down (30% acc down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Concussion Grenade: Stun 95% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)


Hand Bomb: Magic Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Bomb: Defense down (30% defense down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid Bomb

Shadow Bomb: Dodge Down (30% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Bomb

Sticky Bomb: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (30% aspeed/mspeed down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash Bomb


Artisan Bombs:


Explosive: Physical Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Napalm Explosive: Burn (500 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formely Acid Explosive

Silence Explosive: Mute (4 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Explosive

Flash Explosive: Accuracy down (40% acc down/10 second duration) NO DAMAGE

Concussion Explosive: Aoe Stun 95% success (6m radius) 100% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)



High Explosive: Magic Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Explosive: Defense down (40% def down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid High Explosive

Shadow Explosive: Dodge Down (40% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana High Explosive

Sticky Explosive: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (40% aspeed/mspeed down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash High Explosive



By keeping them on the same cooldown, it gives the user an array of options but they must choose which will be the best for the scenario. Do I want to stun my enemy right off the bat? (Keep in mind the stun bombs will do no damage now) If I do, I will have to wait 6 seconds before I can stun him again, but in doing so I won't be able to deal any status effects. Likewise, if I want to hit that dastardly champ with a defense down so I can deal more damage, I won't be able to stun him right afterwards.



Let me know your thoughts.


+1 to both of these. Now that is a fair and decent suggestion + proposal.
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#110 gEddeh

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:37 AM

I've been talking to Jagz about this, and here is a proposal to adjust the crafted bombs for dealers. This change will give the class many more options to choose from in combat, but also ad a great amount of strategy when fighting. All grenades/bombs/explosives will keep the same 6 second cooldown, however, all of them will share the same cooldown except for the non status ones. (which should be seperate).


Dealer Bombs


Hand Grenade: Physical Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Acid Grenade: Poison (300 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Mana Grenade: MP reduction (35% mp down) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Flash Grenade: Accuracy down (30% acc down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE

Concussion Grenade: Stun 95% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)


Hand Bomb: Magic Damage (1000 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Bomb: Defense down (30% defense down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid Bomb

Shadow Bomb: Dodge Down (30% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Bomb

Sticky Bomb: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (30% aspeed/mspeed down/ 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash Bomb


Artisan Bombs:


Explosive: Physical Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Napalm Explosive: Burn (500 damage/second 10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formely Acid Explosive

Silence Explosive: Mute (4 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana Explosive

Flash Explosive: Accuracy down (40% acc down/10 second duration) NO DAMAGE

Concussion Explosive: Aoe Stun 95% success (6m radius) 100% success NO DAMAGE possibly lower range than the other grenades (maybe 8m-15m) (current grenades are 20m range)



High Explosive: Magic Damage (1500 skill power) Seperate Cooldown

Shrapnel Explosive: Defense down (40% def down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Acid High Explosive

Shadow Explosive: Dodge Down (40% dodge down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Mana High Explosive

Sticky Explosive: Attack Speed/Mspeed down (40% aspeed/mspeed down/10 second duration) 100% success NO DAMAGE
Formerly Flash High Explosive



By keeping them on the same cooldown, it gives the user an array of options but they must choose which will be the best for the scenario. Do I want to stun my enemy right off the bat? (Keep in mind the stun bombs will do no damage now) If I do, I will have to wait 6 seconds before I can stun him again, but in doing so I won't be able to deal any status effects. Likewise, if I want to hit that dastardly champ with a defense down so I can deal more damage, I won't be able to stun him right afterwards.



Let me know your thoughts.


You should make a new topic for this.
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#111 Rocanlover

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:01 AM

That is a decend idea Adam, maybe the debuffs could be a little worse cause they're all 30-40% (that's a lot <_<) but yes, it's something I'd be fine with.


Only worry about Stun nade and Mute. The rest Purify Potion<--- :Emo_22:
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#112 Phish

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 01:45 PM

Actually, scratch what I said about reducing the duration to 6 seconds. I think 10 seconds and 30/40% debuffed is adequate.


Look at other classes. A champ can debuff 30% defense with combat cry, whilst doing damage, they can also debuff 60% mspeed with space attack (while doing damage), 40% defense/80% mspeed with soul wreck (for a short duration) and other stats at 20% (also doing damage), all of which are on different cooldowns and can be used in conjunction with eachoter.

Mages can debuff 50% aspeed/80% mspeed together with permafrost chill (although for a short duration). They can also debuff 40% dodge down with tempest while doing damage, they can also debuff 30% defense down plus a burn AND damage with mana burn. They also have several other damaging mspeed down skills and a 20% acc down damaging skill.

Knights can debuff 40% aspeed/70% mspeed with slow shot while doing damage. 25% ap down/33% mspeed plus taunt with impact wave and do damage. 50% mspeed down and damage with sword force. Also 3 non damaging 20% debuffs.


Raiders can do 30% defense down with crazy style slash while doing damage. Have numerous burn skills that also do damage on impact. 80% aspeed down with freezing assault which does damage. Can hit 20% dodge down plus sleep with mystic knife (although short duration) and do damage with it. Also several non damaging debuffs (which could use a little tweaking however).


With a 10 second duration at best you could have two status effects on the enemy for 4 seconds only. That is also assuming you don't get stunned while throwing a grenade.


Thanks for the postivie feedback everyone, I'd really like to see this implemented.

Edited by Phish, 03 February 2011 - 01:49 PM.

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