PvP System Balance

@AlisiaMT

Finally someone not using the DEF excuse, I feel relieved, thanks

@DestinyDeoxys

Yeah the point of the thread is the debuff but since I'm suggesting something about a cleric\mage skill and a bourg\arti item I ended up referring to UW situations

@Kaizy

Decent? gtfo of my thread pooface <3

On topic, the magic def is pretty screwed up anyway. I tried to PvP a mage with and without Oro Set (192 mdef each piece, almost 600 total) and the damage difference was unnoticeable.

Mages have got AoEs too, and debuffs too (mspd down, burn, def down), they have Stuns, they have a longer Mute, an extra AoE Mute and 2 dispell skills.

My Point ..

I don't know if you realized it Albe but compared to mages, every one of a champs stats is equal or greater than a mage except magic defense. (Mages have more mp but that is irrelevant when champs have infinite mp with the champion spirit passive)

Mages having high damage dealing skills for me is normal since they use magic (or the class is really built to be offensive), but like what i said before (and to the PEOPLE that ive chatted in-game), champs having the ability to tank(which IDC since they're close ranged) but at the same time dealing as much (OR close) damage as a mage is absurd (Not even mentioning the fact that they still deal alot of damage muted just meleeing).
Champs complaining about how complicated it is for them to 1 on 1 mages is normal aswell. You were a raider before, so you know that doing 1 on 1 vs a knight is hard aswell. Every class ALWAYS have a weakness against (at least) 1 class out of 7. Mages may do all that damage blahblah but with their m-spd that is crappy (which you need to give up def and ap WHICH really makes a diff. in case your gonna point out how champs do the same aswell) they cant really do much in a war unless they have people backing them up, not like a champ which can just run into they crowd and do aoes and can still run away even when stunned couple of times (Ive seen this kind of tactic over and over) and don't tell me just because of that simple m-spd nerf its gonna be impossible for champs to still do it now.

** Wasn't complaining about mages def because i get the whole "Glass Cannon" thing, its their crappy m-spd which i don't like. Having a slow animation skills and crappy m-spd doesnt make mages OP at all, debuff is the reason why these lame ppl are switching to mages.

Thank you for the very detailed suggestion and subsequent replies. I will forward this thread over to the Development Team for review.

LOL@U, now that adam mentioned devs not even reading/responding to suggestions/proposal threads, now you're here and you even bothered posting. *claps*. I know i was asking for at least 1 response but the timing is just..

Edited by Soda, 01 April 2011 - 12:32 AM.

LOL@U, now that adam mentioned devs not even reading/responding to suggestions/proposal threads, now you're here and you even bothered posting. *claps*. I know i was asking for at least 1 response but the timing is just..

But Adam said devs, Zep is CM. Zep can forward all he wants, the devs can still be oblivious like Adam said.

But Adam said devs, Zep is CM. Zep can forward all he wants, the devs can still be oblivious like Adam said.

WELL. then ill include CM , GM and everyone then xD

Mages having high damage dealing skills for me is normal since they use magic (or the class is really built to be offensive), but like what i said before (and to the PEOPLE that ive chatted in-game), champs having the ability to tank(which IDC since they're close ranged) but at the same time dealing as much (OR close) damage as a mage is absurd (Not even mentioning the fact that they still deal alot of damage muted just meleeing).
Champs complaining about how complicated it is for them to 1 on 1 mages is normal aswell. You were a raider before, so you know that doing 1 on 1 vs a knight is hard aswell. Every class ALWAYS have a weakness against (at least) 1 class out of 7. Mages may do all that damage blahblah but with their m-spd that is crappy (which you need to give up def and ap WHICH really makes a diff. in case your gonna point out how champs do the same aswell) they cant really do much in a war unless they have people backing them up, not like a champ which can just run into they crowd and do aoes and can still run away even when stunned couple of times (Ive seen this kind of tactic over and over) and don't tell me just because of that simple m-spd nerf its gonna be impossible for champs to still do it now.

Nick, as I clearly stated I am not complaining about mages in general, the point of the thread is the Anti Magic Shell skill being an autowin button which works 50% of the times, even higher if combined with Fierce Cudgeling.
I don't care if a mage beats me in a 1v1 PvP, but I think it shouldn't be that easy for them. On my raider I was able to beat a lot of knights because I had good gear, now I have no chance even with the best gear. Do you get it now?

The points of the thread are Anti Magic Shell and Soul Doubt, this last one being unfair because it lasts too long, giving no chance to any 1v1 opponent to cast a skill before dying.

About the bolded sentence, get real. Start playing some more before telling such an extreme lie. I wasn't able to do that with the high mspd, and I am not able to do it now. You are exaggerating now. Unless the group is made of unbuffed FS clerics and lvl 120 noobs I'm dead, it's very rare that I can survive those situations. And I'm pretty sure my champ has got one of the highest DEFs of all champs ingame.

Nick, as I clearly stated I am not complaining about mages in general, the point of the thread is the Anti Magic Shell skill being an autowin button which works 50% of the times, even higher if combined with Fierce Cudgeling.
I don't care if a mage beats me in a 1v1 PvP, but I think it shouldn't be that easy for them. On my raider I was able to beat a lot of knights because I had good gear, now I have no chance even with the best gear. Do you get it now?

The points of the thread are Anti Magic Shell and Soul Doubt, this last one being unfair because it lasts too long, giving no chance to any 1v1 opponent to cast a skill before dying.

About the bolded sentence, get real. Start playing some more before telling such an extreme lie. I wasn't able to do that with the high mspd, and I am not able to do it now. You are exaggerating now. Unless the group is made of unbuffed FS clerics and lvl 120 noobs I'm dead, it's very rare that I can survive those situations. And I'm pretty sure my champ has got one of the highest DEFs of all champs ingame.

I understood what you've just said, thats why i said on my 1st post to
"Lower the Anti Magic Shell % Since they have 2. Increase their M-spd. Period." I was just pointing it out to others that think mages are such a threat.
Also about what you've said that champs can't do that run, aoe at mid, then escape thing. Trust me. While you were gone ive seen it happen TONS of times before i stopped playing when you became active again. Proof?, Count how many thread there is in the past couple of months of how ridiculous their aoe's are especially the debuffs to go along with it.

Edit: No wait, ive realized that the time you came back is when the massive drop of catalyst happened, so then everyone have 15's now. Im referring to that run aoe tactic happened quite alot "before" refining was so easy.

Edited by Soda, 01 April 2011 - 08:28 AM.

I understood what you've just said, thats why i said on my 1st post to
"Lower the Anti Magic Shell % Since they have 2. Increase their M-spd. Period." I was just pointing it out to others that think mages are such a threat.
Also about what you've said that champs can't do that run, aoe at mid, then escape thing. Trust me. While you were gone ive seen it happen TONS of times before i stopped playing when you became active again. Proof?, Count how many thread there is in the past couple of months of how ridiculous their aoe's are especially the debuffs to go along with it.

Edit: No wait, ive realized that the time you came back is when the massive drop of catalyst happened, so then everyone have 15's now. Im referring to that run aoe tactic happened quite alot "before" refining was so easy.

Well if some champs had 15s and most of the rest used to suck back then, you can't blame the champs lol.

Also added to the list Albe

By the way I have a good idea for the Anti Magic Circle:

Make the requirement: visitor class only.

Hi all
I allready mentioned this in another topic but i repeat it here.
I am a mage and i hate the debuff skill, it shouldn't be a part of any strategy.
For a mage its a waste since i am too slow to follow the unbuffed enemy.(829m-speed is slow)
I suggest to remove both debuff skills and give a decent aoe skill in return,one that actually does damage.
Or decrease cooldown of current aoe skills
Boost m-speed and a-speed on mage

Champ....i say remove the mute skill or make it last shorter.
There stun have a longer range,followed with their mute and you are dead
For defense they should raise m-def on soldier gear because they are weak against mage skills.
i do 6k damage on a champ, in my opion too much.
Other classes i have no problem with.

UW...to make it more fun the teams should have an even number.
When teams are unbalanced they better cancel a war, hopefully players move to other sides.

There are more issues that must be solved but it looks like devs are more busy with minor issues like the interface.
People proposed and suggested for months but the devs have no attention for that.

Edited by Prashanti, 07 April 2011 - 09:08 AM.

Champ....i say remove the mute skill or make it last shorter.
There stun have a longer range,followed with their mute and you are dead
For defense they should raise m-def on soldier gear because they are weak against mage

Ill agree with you but i bet some of this champ user will complain. I agree with the part increase their mdef AS LONG as you remove their Mute (which idk why alot of champs complained before when adam is perfectly fine with it) and tweak their aoes just abit.

Hi all
I allready mentioned this in another topic but i repeat it here.
I am a mage and i hate the debuff skill, it shouldn't be a part of any strategy.
For a mage its a waste since i am too slow to follow the unbuffed enemy.(829m-speed is slow)
I suggest to remove both debuff skills and give a decent aoe skill in return,one that actually does damage.
Or decrease cooldown of current aoe skills
Boost m-speed and a-speed on mage

Champ....i say remove the mute skill or make it last shorter.
There stun have a longer range,followed with their mute and you are dead
For defense they should raise m-def on soldier gear because they are weak against mage skills.
i do 6k damage on a champ, in my opion too much.
Other classes i have no problem with.

UW...to make it more fun the teams should have an even number.
When teams are unbalanced they better cancel a war, hopefully players move to other sides.

There are more issues that must be solved but it looks like devs are more busy with minor issues like the interface.
People proposed and suggested for months but the devs have no attention for that.

I agree with mostly everything.

Mages can keep the 1 debuff skill with 25%, its close ranged so I guess I can deal with it.

They should not raise the magic defense on soldiers, that makes no sense. The magic skills on champ are supposed to be strong and they are (well maybe instead of 6k they could hit 3 or 4k) fine.

The mute on champ, idk, 5 seconds is short enough, at this point I say either leave it as it is or remove it (but only if Anti Magic Shell is removed).

Oh and the range of "Launcher" (champ stun) is the same of Soul Shock\Electric. If you get stunned first it's because a: your stun didn't work or b: bad luck ;|

Forum error lost my post...



Anyway, increasing champs' magic defense doesn't make any logical sense. They are supposed to take high damage from magic attacks; just like how mages are supposed to take high damage from physical. Increasing the defense of mages doesn't seem necessary either since champs and knights have been slowed down. And non hawker classes are generally in a similar tier of mspeed now. I do emphasis mages should have faster animations on many of their skills. The whole slow and dies easy attributes are a bad combo.

For example weapon launcher vs. Voltage Jolt/Soul Shock/Soul Electric

Weapon launcher which has 16m range hits first (and if the stun is a success the champ will take no damage) against Voltage Jolt/Soul Shock/Soul Electric despite the fact that they have 18m range.

If anything Soul Shock/Soul Electric should be sped up since the stun is only 1 second long.

Edited by Phish, 07 April 2011 - 03:20 PM.

Here is my idea.
each class should have 1 stun. in a 1 on 1 pvp you will have that one stun to use at a strategic time to run or use a certain skill etc. the stun should be 100% and should be short in duration, but have a good cool down to not be spammed. Stuns that have 50% or whatever basically have you relying on luck in a pvp hoping your skill works.

Physically weak classes could have a slightly better stun because they may take damage quicker, compared to soldiers/hawkers who can tank or dodge.

Completely debuffing is clearly too much of an advantage. You could change it so it would remove one or two random buffs, but ALL BUFFS is just crazy.

Just a couple thoughts from someone who isn't a die hard pvp person.

I like the idea of champ/soldier mute being lowered in duration. Should be around 3 seconds and the cool down adjusted for that change. Only if the muse's mute (soul doubt) is lowered to around 5 seconds. Neither class should have a skill that allows a battle to be so one sided for such a long duration.

The muse mute is fine slightly longer than a soldier's mute because once the muse mute wears off, you have a higher probability of killing the mage since they have low defense. You also have a higher probability of killing a cleric since they have sub-par offense. When a champ mutes you and the mute wears off, you have a much lower chance of killing the champ because of their high def/hp. So it only makes sense that they should have a slightly shorter duration.

The debuffs should go and be replaced with something else. Maybe remove the debuffs from perma chill and add the sleep effect back and have a short duration. Then change fierce cudgeling to an aspd/mspd debuff and make it ranged if possible.

I also think all aoes should be lowered in skill power (goes for everyone champs, mages, bourgs, raiders, etc) and have single target skills be the better skills. Makes no sense some jobs have aoes that outclass their single target skills.

Agree with the faster skill animations for mage. It's funny when you have a longer range than someone but your skill casts second anyways.

They should add a way to add mdef easier. Whether it's increase mdef base stat or substat or jewelry or what not. There should be an easy way to increase your mdef significantly if you so chose that route.

I think this is a huge trolololol thread

Here is my idea.
each class should have 1 stun. in a 1 on 1 pvp you will have that one stun to use at a strategic time to run or use a certain skill etc. the stun should be 100% and should be short in duration, but have a good cool down to not be spammed.

Nah i think im good with the current skills. Adding this 100% success stun will add trouble again. It may not do as much damage like that Anti Magic Shell but 100% is too much.

Nah i think im good with the current skills. Adding this 100% success stun will add trouble again. It may not do as much damage like that Anti Magic Shell but 100% is too much.

I think just one 100% stun wouldn't be too much trouble. you wouldn't be stunned and muted for a whole pvp at least.

UW would be far better if they left the skills the same for now, and figured out how to make the sides even for every war.

I think just one 100% stun wouldn't be too much trouble. you wouldn't be stunned and muted for a whole pvp at least.

UW would be far better if they left the skills the same for now, and figured out how to make the sides even for every war.

But see. If its 100% then its the same with Mage's Perma before when it was 100% success Sleep. It may only be useful at pvp but ppl still complained about it. Thats why i said keep everything as it is now is because stun is mostly base on luck, so ppl find strategies or timings to improve their game play. If i have 1 skill that can assure me of a perfect stun i find that lame. Even if you say its 1 second stun.

"one stun to use at a strategic time to run"

Then its not so "strategic" at all since that stun lands 100%. Its like an easy get away skill.

"UW would be far better if they fix unbalanced class and lame animation/effects on skills, rather than taking months just to fix 1 class (Referring to only removing champs m-spd and not including Boosting up mages (Not by adding a lame debuff skill), Clerics just being buff/heal/stun slaves in UW) and also Artisans"