304 replies to this topic

[meli]

If switching long mace and bellum bible for laudas isn't bothersome to you, it's great.

[5103131227183105873]

Hi, im trying to figure out what skills to drop to get meditatio to 10 (and increse sp recovery to 5, cause prereq.)

so far I have 4 from slow poison, 2 from imposito manus, and 1 from aspersio

what do you think? should I get kyrie to 4 and gloria to 3? that would be a total of 10 skill points, still 1 short.

[OniichanN]

Slow poison is bad. Like really bad. Like don't take it ever bad. ._.

 

Try something like this. You have one point to play with in your aco tree (6th point in divine protection) and 4 points to play with in your priest skill tree. You'll also have all the prereqs for your support AB skills.

 

Well, you can't go wrong till 99 since you can reset skills till you find what works for you. Try them all out and see what works for you.

[Toggles]

Horse Hat = Decrease Agi, so I'd forego the point, and Divine is for soft def. I'd rather pump the 4 into Angelus (soft def) as most people do. I honestly think Assump 5 and Magni 5 are pretty wasteful. The 30 second increase erm.. doesn't help too much when you can just recast. As far Gloria I'd go at least level 3 for duration or ditch it completely.. unless you wanna spam it every 10 seconds (not ideal for supporting a party). You can BS Sac (try this, you need a second aco-type around you).. it's somewhat useful depending on the situation. I've seen ABs in High use it alongside my AB, but it's a 3x3 and doesn't last too long. Holy element is a nice reduction against most elementals. Honestly, I haven't used SW.. like almost ever (it can be used to block pneuma casts from MvPs), I much prefer the 10 in KE and 5 in Prae for mobility, and (Sacrament requirement) you can alternate between, since Prae has a long cool down after you start increasing it (keep Prae at level 1 when you're an AB Prae Cooldowns, until you're about ready to get Sacrament).

It really depends on style. I honestly don't play FS too often, I only made one as an alt. Most of my ABs are Hybrid-ME/Fast Caster types, and when I do supporting, this is what I tend to use:
My Ado/ME build:
Here It relies on fast cast/cast reduction on top of some decent dex ~80+
My FS Build: Here Extra points you can place in Silentum leveling. I'd level sacrament first, then the Lauda -> Clearance set after.
My FS and ME builds aren't far off, just a few points difference, but the style of buffing/casting is the same.

I've tried Signum max and Divine Max to see if it would help an exorcist build and it really doesn't all too much, but the Signum is nice support as it can affect MvPs too.

Hope that helps you focus down on some options. From Onii's build you can try cutting the points in Assump and Magni and try my build, the 4 in KE seems kind of wasteful to me just to get a gloria 1x.

[GraydroZ]

Actually SW is very useful. Like if the situation force you to temporary tank Seyren Windsor for example, even with uber healing gears and other defensive buffs from AB are not likely to help us to survive those mobs. It is difficult to use SW accurately and timely but this skill is definitely a very powerful skill, and be one of the best defensive skills in AB arsenal imo.

 

One thing I am not sure is that should we max resurrection or not? Level 4 is good in the sense that it gives very high HP of the resurrected target, but the delay is terrible (except on string). On another hand, with a lot of cast reduction gears available nowadays, you can cast resurrection level 1 super fast and can do other things immediately afterwards because of no delay. The downside of level 1 is that the resurrected target will have quite a low HP left so he needs to pot quickly. What do you guys think about this idea?

Edited by GraydroZ, 01 June 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[4853121207141913140]

oh something i would like to have is to get both sp recovery 10 and meditatio 10.
sp issues is so much of a corncern for me.
also, i think having a low level of ress is bad at early levels, expecially at TI. but if you can hold on to it until you get sacrament5 then i guess its ok. the cast time is decent, but there's a fixed cast time for it now, unlike in pre-re.

ress levels have their own counterparts
1 - ygg leaf , the ygg leaf user most probably will not have sacrament
2 - death valley , consumes the target's sp
3 - death valley , consumes the target's sp
4 - token of siegfried , high skill delay for the priest.

Edited by 4853121207141913140, 02 June 2014 - 02:47 AM.

[kasshin]

Sp recovery the skill isn't very good. It only works when you're not moving. For the sp items bonus, you shouldn't be using many sp items at all in a proper party anyway and the boost isn't much compared to your regular pre-req level.

[GraydroZ]

oh something i would like to have is to get both sp recovery 10 and meditatio 10.
sp issues is so much of a corncern for me.
also, i think having a low level of ress is bad at early levels, expecially at TI. but if you can hold on to it until you get sacrament5 then i guess its ok. the cast time is decent, but there's a fixed cast time for it now, unlike in pre-re.

ress levels have their own counterparts
1 - ygg leaf , the ygg leaf user most probably will not have sacrament
2 - death valley , consumes the target's sp
3 - death valley , consumes the target's sp
4 - token of siegfried , high skill delay for the priest.

 

Aww I don't know there is a fixed cast time for resurrection level 1 now

[Toggles]

Erm.. I think you should max Resu to 4.. well in a practical sense, if you were to re-heal their HP either via Sanct + Healing or a HH Spam, it'd be SP costly and they'd probably die before you finish healing them.. that and the cast time is not very favorable...  Even if they were to Slim or ygg themselves back up, those pots can go towards fighting things, not just regrouping..

As far as SP issues.. you should umm either change your gear or your style. If I have SP issues, I opt for sanct spamming, this does kill B-gems though. I do Sanct 5 for cast/duration, as if you're on the move, it won't be a complete waste and the HPs won't affect mobs too greatly, some people do Sanct 4 or 6 which is fine, and sometimes Sanct 7 is a little over-doing it. It's situation dependent. Try to not use C.Heal as it's an SP killing. I use C.Heal when people are horribly out of reach (you'll know this by looking at the party window being blanked out in the HP category). 

As far as SW.. in a moving party it's not ideal. In ET you have some calls for SW, and position can be fixed via view-change. The problem with SW is the duration. With Seyron.. he has absurd ASPD.. he'd break through in no time... and since it takes up a cell. It might off-set your pneuma placement if you have to do ranged attacks too. 1-Cell placement maybe crucial in some situations if you have ranged people in your party, and off-setting your pneuma cast isn't ideal just for a SW when you can just Resu. Then again if the party coordinates and spaces out kinda nicely, I guess that's fine. Last note would be SW eats up a B-gem. I tend to use SW on my WL, it's not a bad skill as my WL could only Imprison or run like hell (maybe freeze/quag), so if I have to tank a few shots, I'll use SW. 

Like I said it depends on style. I'm usually on the move and mis-timing a Prae could mean death. That and well.. when someone dies and I already buffed, I single cast on the person who I just resued, with the exception of Magni and Angelus. The Prae cooldown again.. erm..  

[GraydroZ]

Erm.. I think you should max Resu to 4.. well in a practical sense, if you were to re-heal their HP either via Sanct + Healing or a HH Spam, it'd be SP costly and they'd probably die before you finish healing them.. that and the cast time is not very favorable...  Even if they were to Slim or ygg themselves back up, those pots can go towards fighting things, not just regrouping..

As far as SP issues.. you should umm either change your gear or your style. If I have SP issues, I opt for sanct spamming, this does kill B-gems though. I do Sanct 5 for cast/duration, as if you're on the move, it won't be a complete waste and the HPs won't affect mobs too greatly, some people do Sanct 4 or 6 which is fine, and sometimes Sanct 7 is a little over-doing it. It's situation dependent. Try to not use C.Heal as it's an SP killing. I use C.Heal when people are horribly out of reach (you'll know this by looking at the party window being blanked out in the HP category). 

As far as SW.. in a moving party it's not ideal. In ET you have some calls for SW, and position can be fixed via view-change. The problem with SW is the duration. With Seyron.. he has absurd ASPD.. he'd break through in no time... and since it takes up a cell. It might off-set your pneuma placement if you have to do ranged attacks too. 1-Cell placement maybe crucial in some situations if you have ranged people in your party, and off-setting your pneuma cast isn't ideal just for a SW when you can just Resu. Then again if the party coordinates and spaces out kinda nicely, I guess that's fine. Last note would be SW eats up a B-gem. I tend to use SW on my WL, it's not a bad skill as my WL could only Imprison or run like hell (maybe freeze/quag), so if I have to tank a few shots, I'll use SW. 

Like I said it depends on style. I'm usually on the move and mis-timing a Prae could mean death. That and well.. when someone dies and I already buffed, I single cast on the person who I just resued, with the exception of Magni and Angelus. The Prae cooldown again.. erm..  

 

May be we are discussing on different aspects of the game. I think you concern towards PVM while I concern towards MVP, Bio lab, etc That's why our view in the importance of skills are not the same.

 

In PVM, the party members usually rely a lot on AB to keep their HP full so we can see that many don't even carry pots In this case, resurrection at level 4 is ok because the other party members can clear TI mobs easily, hence AB don't have to concerning much about 3 sec delay from level 4 resurrection. On the other hand, for stuffs like MVP, Bio lab, using resurrection level 4 suddenly render AB unable to do anything but run around for 3 sec (except you have string but what if he also die?) Three sec in PVM is very short but in MVP, bio lab situations it's a very long suffering time. That's why I would like to know you guys opinions about resurrection level 1 vs. level 4 in case someone may already tested this in the real situation. In addition, the mindset of the people in MVP, bio lab party should be different from PVM; everyone should have a certain capability to survive with less attention from AB. That's why I expect everyone to pot immediately after got resurrected. But as I mentioned earlier, I am not sure that it will be a really good idea so if someone can share experience in serious MVP and/or bio lab situations I will be very grateful.

 

Regarding the SW, it is true that Seyren can break through it quite fast but it still offers a very high capability to keep us alive. In the real situation, a Sorc in my party can keep himself alive with constant recast of SW while an AB die to Seyren pretty fast despite his high heal spamming =  =. Though I have to agree that I rarely see someone use SW in PVM.

Edited by GraydroZ, 03 June 2014 - 04:46 AM.

[Toggles]

All levels of Res are fixed-based. If you're basing it on PvP situations, it's a different story.. SW duration can manage PvP a bit better in some scenarios. 

       Cast    Var   Fixed      Delay   w/Sacrament total                                  Feels like @ 100% reduction

L1    6s      4.8     1.2           0                5.4s+0s = 5.4s (with 0.6 fixed)       0.6s   

L2    4s      3.2     0.8           1                3.6s+1s = 4.6s (with 0.4 fixed)       1.4s

L3    2s      1.6     0.4           2                1.8s+2s = 2s (with 0.2 fixed)          2.2s

L4    0         0        0             3                3s fixed                                          3.0s

Unless the Res formula is 100% Fixed then it's 3 seconds regardless of level. 

Knowing this, if you think level 1 is better, you're better off using ygg leaves to cast level 1. But if it's an MvP... or Bio.. They will die again with 10% HP, even if they have a Tao @ 50~60k that's still 5-6k. They might live through Bio.. but any MvP AoE would destroy them (hence the Pneuma instead of SW). But lets say you cast SW first. It's still 0.2s post-sacra. Then you proceed to resu. Then I would need 'insta' to cast level 1 resu at 0.6. Even if I have a low ping and god-like APM, real life time would still be around 1~1.5s at the very least (which is half of the 3s delay). I would not cast L1 Resu in a Bio MvP situation... Any MvP that could possibly AoE or kill my team Via Skill (like Seyron or KK, heck even SS, LoD, Ifrit or DL) I would not use L1... There's always a Magical aspect (non-physical), and facing the Mobs, that KK from a Bio would surely cast something on you  (if you had GTB, this would all be pointless). 

 

ET Wise.. people look at my funny when I use my 99 AB to cast L1. Even after taking a sacra.. I end up getting yelled at for not healing fast enough. Unless they Ygg, they won't be able to tank the next blow if it comes. In a serious MvP situation, I don't expect for my party to continue to wipe out. If you want to try L2, be my guest, but L3 is just like L4, with only 0.8s difference.

Honestly for Seyren I'd KE (normal cast not Prae) and run away to let my party take care of it. Even if I SW, I'd have to carefully position my cells as my party can be wandering into my next SW-pre-cast (then I have no SW to wander into once it bricks). If a CS comes, I'd probably gonna end up dying anyway SW or not. 

 

Unless the AB is personally tanking, I don't see what you will do during that delay time.

Please remember my suggestions were meant for the guy posting on the 31st. He's still quite low and the changes he makes after 3rding his HP are Perma (needs Neural to make changes after level 100). So if he's in TI.. well.. I don't know, he won't have a Sacra to help his cast. Keep this in mind.

[Funny story.. someone in my TI party decided to not wait for me and Resu our second AB with a Ygg.. instantly died after and rage quit cos of the 6% loss]

[interesting tip.. Got to kill a Misty or someone who uses Pneuma? Cast a SW (level doesn't matter) in to block their cells and have your Gens spam Acids]

[kasshin]

I just mentioned on another thread that I'm not really buying the whole 20% fixed 80% variable thing:

http://forums.warppo...i/#entry1803080

If that really was true for all skills though, then GraydoZ would have a good point in how nowadays it's very easy to get near-full variable cast reduc. Someone would really have to do an actual test to confirm how much / how long of it is fixed and how much for variable. And unless we use some third party programs, the test is most likely going to be "eyeballing" and not so much exact values / exact seconds.

However, what really kills it for me is that you can't select the level of Ress to hotkey. It will just take your highest level. Ress maxed is a must for end-game because you will often be in situations with Strings active (for the cast delay portion). You can insta res several people quickly with maxed Ress this way. I don't want to waste a neuralizer at endgame so I always use the priest points for maxing ress.

Safety Wall 10 is a MUST for endgame. It has applications in WoE / PVP as mentioned above already, but it's also very useful for advanced gameplay for MVP or sometimes Bio 3/4. You need it to block pneuma from Mistress, Kiel, etc. especially if there is no sorc / magnetic earth around. You don't really need it for tanking something usually and it should be more used for "emergencies" when something doesn't go right (things never go as planned though of course). A proper tank shouldn't need it to tank anything but when the tank is having trouble, safety wall is really good. And by proper I mean a tank that is spamming pots. High Heal spam can help quite a bit too of course but the fact that safety wall blocks at least one hit is extremely useful. On a tank that is spamming pots, it is often the case that spamming safety wall on the tank proves to be more useful than spamming high heal. Regarding the level, I tested it personally and higher level of SW does cast faster contrary to some skill descriptions (including maybe even the in-game one). I updated irowiki's description for it to be more accurate too.

But for PVM, safety wall doesn't tend to be used. Most idiots don't bring pots anyway (at least for emergencies) so healing them becomes more useful for saving them. And in your average TI party, people will move very quickly and people get position bugged quite a bit so it's hard to aim the SW exactly. It does take a bit of practice to master it and it does separate the better ABs from the average ones though.

[GraydroZ]

I tested resurrection level 1, and I think I have to withdraw this idea. Level 1 still have a considerable casting time (I'm not sure how long but it's long) after 100% cast reduction. Thank you very much for discussing with me everyone. And sorry that I didn't test in real situation first before posting

 

About kasshin's opinion, I think you are correct that not every 1st and 2nd classes skills have 20% fixed 80% variable. Magnus Exocimus for example have much faster casting time (after 100% cast reduction) than resurrection level 1 despite its 15 sec casting time indicated in wiki.

Edited by GraydroZ, 03 June 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Toggles]

If someone has some Bee accessories (60%), Spell 4/4 weapon (20%) (possibly Spell3/3/4 from Empowered Mace), a SP FAW x,x,x (30%), they could test it out. Probably would have to record and use a third party for post-analysis with a timer. Could use a CoD[KK], but the CoD would cut the skill delay a little bit. I haven't tested ME with 100% cast reduction, though I'd like to. I don't feel there's much of a difference when I was my SP 4/4 weapon (20%), with CoD (20%) and aco card set (10%). Even with SP FAW, that cuts me down to 80%. With my 80+ dex that should cut it down to 100% if I'm not mistaken, though I don't feel any different. I've been working on a SP Mace, though that would take sometime to assure a full 100%.

In any case you might be right. I just tested ME on my 50 dex vs 80+ ABs and the 80+ seems faster, as I casted first on the 50 and was outcasted by the other. There maybe some variable cast in the mix, though it might be a small amount. I'm not sure how conclusive this is though. I would need to compare with a 1 Dex AB (are there any out there)? Maybe a Sakray AB tester? Heck, I'm not even sure where they got 15 seconds from, feels more like 7 seconds or something. With holy stick it feels 5ish, added with sacra maybe it's around 3-4ish, but that's what it feels like, not what it actually is.

Regarding SW, it's much faster and spammable at 10, but practicing it is a little bishy. I prefer using my WL to practice SW post-link. I guess you can get a Power-corder team to help your ABs practice too. For SW, as well as V-Firewall practicing, I suggest a semi-overheadish/sideish view (mid-wise scroll when you go up and down so you can see diagonal cells clearly). Then plant a V-firewall, then plant the SW in various positions. For ABs you could do it with Pneuma and SW. Though my preference is still KE since I can move away from the target.

And well.. actually most idiots move out of the SW to begin with, so it defeats the purpose of you casting it. Lastly, like Sera PK, SW is highly suspect to position-lag. You can check position lag with a second and third client, you'll notice your sprites on 1 or 2 of the clients if off from the other. When I think I'm stuck with position laggers I cast Angelus to see where they might be, and then I move out of range and cast it again to see if they're affected.

[kasshin]

Naw, all you need to test is just an magic strings alt (50%+).

Gems are ~500z... surely anyone can afford to spam those a bit these days with the billions of zeny available.

I dunno about you but I wouldn't do endgame stuff with idiots.

[Toggles]

Nah I don't want to affect Resu testing by cutting any delay as to not over-cast and make it a little harder to test for inter-interval trial times but for variable cast it seems fine I guess. I did do MS on ME, and there was no real effect, or at least it wasn't visible enough. I tried a few times, gonna test later again though, probably one day record and count it down.

I'm surprised though Fat old McDonalds man, I thought even the best of the best can sometimes be/become (certain times) idiots . 

[kasshin]

Just test out the cast time and the cast delay separately. Duh!

[Trance3D2Y]

Do you guys think its wise to invest on Glorious Cure Wand? I have around 400+ EMB now and my main is an AB (I have 4 priests btw: 2AB, 1 future AB, 1 HP lvl99).

 

Or is it better to cash it out via Reset Stones at around ~250M then buy a +9 Recovery Light/Healing Staff/other weapon.

 

Also, if it's the second option, what's the best AB weapon I can buy for ~250M?

 

PS. I'm using +9TSoD spell6 now.

 

[kasshin]

Glorious cure wand is generally the best, but I usually only recommend it if you have two or more ABs on the account (which you do). However instead of EMB i would suggest using other methods or a combination of other methods + EMB. Doing the god item seals gets you a lot of KVM for cheaper / free. Doing the actual kvm battlegrounds is an option too.

[Trance3D2Y]

Thanks kasshin.

 

What's the environment on High TI AB-wise? I'm at 121/35 right now. Do I need to max my job first before climbing up? Cause my concern is joining a party. Forming a party at mid TI takes more than 30mins already, and I can imagine the situation at high TI. I'm maximizing the Gramps TI+Bounty Board opportunity at mid-TI this week and until probably next week. After that would it be efficient to climb at High TI with less than 40 job lvls?

[OniichanN]

Up to you. IMO if you have the aoe buffs and sacra, you're welcome in any party. Parties are really easy to find for an AB (maybe a bit longer in the 126-134 range but once you're 135+, you won't wait long).

 

It's more about using the right equips (race/size resistance shields, elemental armors if needed) and managing your sp than anything else. Dumb people (those without their own consumables and/or proper equips) will die whatever you do, nothing you can do about them. :>

[Datrax]

Sry if its answered already. Matk doesn't affect healing right. Is there any point for a FS AB to get matk?

[OniichanN]

MATK (status and weapon) does affect heal numbers. http://irowiki.org/wiki/Heal

 

Not really worth going for MATK if you want higher heals imo, heal modifiers are better for that.

 

 

 

 

[4853121207141913140]

the weapon's matk affect healing a lot.
this is why healing staff and strong recovery staff doesn't heal as much as eden staff 3 or wand of affection.

 

matk coming from odin's blessing and matk buffs don't add much(or not at all) to healing.

[PervySageMarty]

Heal is only effected by matk that comes from the weapon(and its upgrades) and any stat derived matk(int, luk, dex).
 

Any matk that derives from gears or buffs, regardless of flat matk or percentiles, do not effect healing.

 

An exception to this rule is using Mystic Amplification scrolls when using heal offensively against undead monsters.