107 replies to this topic

[Mondaiji]

I saw this post in threads about Assassins:

For the sake of those who were incapable of participating in the stream and/or have not, or cannot, watch the recorded version I have compiled a list of the questions asked and answered within such; all answers, save those denoted with (Alteris) were provided by Njoror. His responses are verbatim, in order to avoid any confusion or misinterpretation. To whit: these are his words, mates, not mine. Finally, all questions are displayed in the order they were received. If nothing else, this should provide a decent reference.
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Q: Any change to the Assassin's Shadow Form?
A: "I've definitely been looking at the submissions that people have been posting on the forum, through the Proposal and Suggestions forum, and I've brought that up to the development team. Um... those screenshots that you guys have taken, of what you would prefer, or the, uh, photo-editing you guys have done to kind of give us an idea of what you're looking for really do help so, please, do keep submitting those... for Shadow Form or anything else you think should have changed."

...

I guess it's the best option to open a thread only made for suggestions of what the Shadow Form should look like, right? I hope it's ok


Keep this thread up for suggestions - only suggestions - no discussion please!

I will keep the suggestions with the most likes in this post. There might be no "like" button, but you guys can quote the picture and write "+1" under it
(This will require many votes though >_<)

Therefore, uhm, yeah... get the ideas rolling!!

I will start with Assassin Cross Eremes (bio labs ro1)


______________________________________________________________


Top voted Forms:

"No Form, Just Assassin" - by Rhint (+16)

Spoiler

How about a toggle with no cover up graphic at all, where you just see your character? OP's post references a literal ghost and the second poster wants to just give you a different cover up, but this doesn't address the actual problem - assassin isn't a transformer class. People who played RO1 remember him pretty well, I imagine.

You guys want a cover up? Fine, I don't care. But give us a toggle to turn it off. Your cover ups are not what my class is about at all. You wanna cover the weapons? One of the most exotic traits of the assassin is the use of katar and claw weapons! Found a really bad ass claw weapon with a model you really like? Well under the other guy's system, too damn bad. You have default claw weapons that you share with everyone!

There's nothing to suggest that we have to have a transformation to go with our buff. By being defeatist on the issue and suggesting other over writes that remove our individuality, armor, weapons, and appearance, you help seaRO be lazy in not helping us. Don't cave. Stop suggesting transformations. We don't have to have a marker to say we have shadow form on. We're the only class in the game with the skill. It should be assumed that every assassin has it on.






No wolves. No hooded guy. No shadow sora. Just assassins.

"Bio Labs appearance" - by Mondaiji (see Assassin Cross Eremes pictures), "with a darker aura (not white)" - Idea by Raela (similar visuals: Varunax) (+9)
What it should look like(stop at 00:03-00:04):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEcRXkJ6oi8
Editing by Helios0

Read this before you leave!
Please don't just take a look and skip this. I want all of you visiters to suggest or vote for something which has already been suggested! Thanks!

Edited by Mondaiji, 11 June 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[SoraOfKHK]

Okay, so this is basically the same post I've made in another topic ( http://forums.warppo...rm/page__st__50 ), but I thought it would be relevant here as well...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Okay, so here is my thought on the subject; find a way to make everyone happy.

Honestly, a hood and an aura were two things I thought about before even reading the arguments concerning the Shadow Form/Shadow Fiend subject. A hood that is a costume (when in the form) that can be toggled on/off. The entire form below the neck can stay as-is, but when the hood is not on, the HUMAN form (with all current headgears) would be visible. Also, the hood would cast a shadow over your face, and your eyes would be red while in the form (regardless of wearing hood or not, you'd have red eyes). ALL of your gear would be visible while in this form (except weapons), as would your head. You would also be semi-transparent (around 70-90% opacity), and have a smokey aura around you. This is what I had in my head, but the thing is, I can't find any other image other than the one above to work with all of this. I guess I could find someone to screenshot in game later, but right now, I've got nothing to work with to actually visually demonstrate everything I mean.

Right now, our only real customization is our armor, and everything above our neck on our character's physical form (and voice, name, and choosing class/profession). Pretty much everything else is given to us, so honestly, if the armor (and our body from the neck up) was allowed in the form, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal for everyone.
Point is, though, with those things, you could satisfy everyone.

+Toggle on/off hood (to you, and everyone else).
+Complete form.
+Armor covers form (except hands, and weapons do not show).
+Entire form (except aura, red eyes, and semi-transparency) can be toggled on/off (to you and everyone else).
+Semi-Transparency would not be the same as being invisible, meaning you'd be seen by all monsters/characters while in this form unless you go invisible.



Then again, these are just my thoughts. I don't expect anyone to accept any of it. XD

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 12 June 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[Rhint]

How about a toggle with no cover up graphic at all, where you just see your character? OP's post references a literal ghost and the second poster wants to just give you a different cover up, but this doesn't address the actual problem - assassin isn't a transformer class. People who played RO1 remember him pretty well, I imagine.

You guys want a cover up? Fine, I don't care. But give us a toggle to turn it off. Your cover ups are not what my class is about at all. You wanna cover the weapons? One of the most exotic traits of the assassin is the use of katar and claw weapons! Found a really bad ass claw weapon with a model you really like? Well under the other guy's system, too damn bad. You have default claw weapons that you share with everyone!

There's nothing to suggest that we have to have a transformation to go with our buff. By being defeatist on the issue and suggesting other over writes that remove our individuality, armor, weapons, and appearance, you help seaRO be lazy in not helping us. Don't cave. Stop suggesting transformations. We don't have to have a marker to say we have shadow form on. We're the only class in the game with the skill. It should be assumed that every assassin has it on.






No wolves. No hooded guy. No shadow sora. Just assassins.

Edited by 9107130514053412363, 27 May 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[CloudySkys]

Here's a rough idea of my personal suggestion of how it should look (ten minutes in photoshop, so pretty rough, but a general idea).
Basically, mostly your normal character, with a shadowy aura, but with the claws from the current shadow form (I like those ) and the claws kinda meld back into your characters upper arms just past the elbow.


I'll quote my post from the other thread here I guess, but people really need to stop making new threads about this, there's at least 2 active threads on the subject and probably 6 or 7 total.

Edited by CloudySkys, 27 May 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Mondaiji]

There are 4 threads, no poll^^
I made this thread due to the quote. Seems like they want us to post our ideas of what the Shadow Form should look like or how we want to see the Assassin. Therefore I opened a thread only for suggestions about how the Shadow Form should look like in the future.

Back to Topic:
I was assuming that the story about "merging with the shadow fiend thingy" will stay and therefore a transformation is required.
But If they are going to change that, I will vote for your suggestion, 9107130514053412363 ^^

Spoiler

How about a toggle with no cover up graphic at all, where you just see your character? OP's post references a literal ghost and the second poster wants to just give you a different cover up, but this doesn't address the actual problem - assassin isn't a transformer class. People who played RO1 remember him pretty well, I imagine.

You guys want a cover up? Fine, I don't care. But give us a toggle to turn it off. Your cover ups are not what my class is about at all. You wanna cover the weapons? One of the most exotic traits of the assassin is the use of katar and claw weapons! Found a really bad ass claw weapon with a model you really like? Well under the other guy's system, too damn bad. You have default claw weapons that you share with everyone!






No wolves. No hooded guy. No shadow sora. Just assassins.

+1 for what's in the spoiler ^^

Edited by Mondaiji, 27 May 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Atlessa]

+1 for what's in the spoiler ^^

Make that +2

[FenrisF]

+3

[Edrickblade]

+4, Screw the existing transformation. It makes the Assassin look humiliating. Who was daft jerk that drew up the concept for the Assassin's demon form? A unicorn werewolf with a tiny head? Anyone actually like it? Seriously?

[FenrisF]

A toggle option would be the best scenario, but I'd at least like some kind of tiny indication that we are in shadow form, something visible but not detracting cosmetically.

Edited by FenrisF, 28 May 2013 - 01:32 AM.

[CloudySkys]

I think there needs to be some visual indication that you are in shadow form, but tbh I don't really care what it is as long as its not the stupid unicorn/dog thing that it is now (or a wolf thing or any other sort of stupid animal transformation). I like my suggestion, something like what FenrisF posted I guess (although i like my suggestion better, which is basically just using a small part of the current form and adding a shadowy aura, so it wouldn't require much effort to create), and I also like the suggestion of no transformation at all, but with the addition that the shadow form skill is removed and assassins just receive a 30% bonus to attack and move speed that is always active (the shadow form skill can be replaced by something else, perhaps some sort of poison skill or just increase the point levels of a few other skills, if you really can't be bothered to come up with a new skill, from 3 points to max up to 5 points to max to make up for it).

Edited by CloudySkys, 27 May 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[SoraOfKHK]

Dear WP development team.

I am absolutely for the option of just toggling it off and looking at regular ole me, but if you are absolutely hellbent on having some appearance change, why not just use your own resources? What I mean by that is...
Just use some of the Gravity designs we already have from the Ragnarok DS version! (This is specifically the DS exclusive "Dark Knight" class but please make the female version not quite so revealing). This way we can see our faces and hair and accessories, yet still look like some transformed weirdo. No copyright infrigements, and an awesome reference for some people.

If you look at the arms and legs and the general color scheme, it kinda seems like these may have been partial inspiration for the current form already. That said, these look better than what already exist, so if we have to have an alternate form, then +1 to this.

As for making it not so revealing, this was a quick job, but would this work? XD

I drew the chest armor on this one:

Spoiler

The chest armor on this one was just a modified version of the one on the male:

Spoiler

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 27 May 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[Rhint]

There's nothing to suggest that we have to have a transformation to go with our buff. By being defeatist on the issue and suggesting other over writes that remove our individuality, armor, weapons, and appearance, you help seaRO be lazy in not helping us. Don't cave. Stop suggesting transformations. We don't have to have a marker to say we have shadow form on. We're the only class in the game with the skill. It should be assumed that every assassin has it on.

Edited by 9107130514053412363, 27 May 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[FenrisF]

If you look at the arms and legs and the general color scheme, it kinda seems like these may have been partial inspiration for the current form already. That said, these look better than what already exist, so if we have to have an alternate form, then +1 to this.

As for making it not so revealing, this was a quick job, but would this work? XD

I drew the chest armor on this one:

Spoiler

The chest armor on this one was just a modified version of the one on the male:

Spoiler

Much much better. We ABSOLUTELY don't want the assassin to turn into the next dancer, so your design is just wonderful. I am updating my current post with your updated one.

Edited by FenrisF, 27 May 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

The only option I'm voting for is NO ALTERNATIVE FORM. Just have it as a buff without changing my sprite.

[Akayo]

I vote for a toggle or something very minimal.

+1 to "No Form, Just Assassin".

Edited by Akayo, 27 May 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[SoraOfKHK]

Much much better. We ABSOLUTELY don't want the assassin to turn into the next dancer, so your design is just wonderful. I am updating my current post with your updated one.

XD Well thank you. You actually chose to use the one I thought was the worse of the two. XD I'm sure someone else could do much better, though.

There's nothing to suggest that we have to have a transformation to go with our buff. By being defeatist on the issue and suggesting other over writes that remove our individuality, armor, weapons, and appearance, you help seaRO be lazy in not helping us. Don't cave. Stop suggesting transformations. We don't have to have a marker to say we have shadow form on. We're the only class in the game with the skill. It should be assumed that every assassin has it on.

I put my message in a spoiler to reduce page length. I also did it because this is the Internet, and attention spans on the Internet are stereotypically shorter than the diameter of a human hair. I doubt many (if any) will read it, but if you did take the time to read it, then thanks? XD

Spoiler

RO1 had notifications for certain skills and buffs alongside the right side of the screen to notify YOU that you had that buff. Skills like Spirit Spheres and Steel Body had notifications visible to EVERYONE to let them know what was coming, and to plan their strategy.

If you want to remove the ability to know what your enemy is buffed with and say we should assume that they are using the typical, then you kind of defeat strategy, considering there IS NOT JUST ONE SET BUILD FOR ANY CLASS. If you go assuming that they're using one thing, and they're using something else, you could just be setting yourself up for defeat.

Not all SinXs went Critical in RO1, and not all of them went EDP-SB types. You couldn't go in just assuming they were one or the other; you had to have a plan for both. EDP had a physical notification that would actually bring a SinX out of cloaking when they used it. The notifications being present for YOU and for EVERYONE ELSE matter, regardless of if it's a form, or an aura, or a set of spheres above your head.

The thing people seem to want is to be able to have their armor, their head, and their gear visible over the form. That SHOULD be possible with the right coding.

But if you really want to remove this form, then why not remove all other forms, and anything else in the game that notifies you, your allies, and your enemies what kind of buffs/build you have?

There is not a true sense of individuality in this game. Chances are, even with armor dyes, there are probably 10-20 (or more) people out there with the same exact class, gear, gear color, eye color, hair color, face type, hair style, and voice as your character. Same goes for other games, and same can pretty much be said about real life (to an extent).

What I'm trying to suggest here is some way to have MULTIPLE forms to choose from somehow, not just one set form. There may be some people who actually want a form of some kind, just like there are some people out there who wear costumes, and people out there who wear their profession outfit. Chances are, some people may like the Shadow Fiend form. Removing it completely may cause an issue with those people. Furthermore, there ARE people who don't go onto forums, same as with RO1. People often say, "If you don't come onto the forums, then you don't have a voice," but if that's the case, then you're saying that those people who play (and put money into this game) DO NOT MATTER. Gravity is a company, and as such, cares about profit. They will most likely try to find some way of satisfying EVERYONE. One of the better ways to do this is to have a toggle on/off option, one which toggles it on or off for both YOU and your allies/enemies, not just one or the other.

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 28 May 2013 - 12:12 AM.

[Rhint]

Okay, but in RO2 it's literally build suicide to not take Shadowform. Every Assassin has to have it. You can't compare it to taking one buff over another in RO1. It should be assumed every single Assassin has Shadowform because of how direly important it is to the class.

[FenrisF]

Gravity is a company, and as such, cares about profit. They will most likely try to find some way of satisfying EVERYONE. One of the better ways to do this is to have a toggle on/off option, one which toggles it on or off for both YOU and your allies/enemies, not just one or the other.

I agree with this, there's almost no reason not to be able to help out with this current dilemna without them getting back something in return.

Edited by FenrisF, 28 May 2013 - 01:32 AM.

[SoraOfKHK]

Okay, but in RO2 it's literally build suicide to not take Shadowform. Every Assassin has to have it. You can't compare it to taking one buff over another in RO1. It should be assumed every single Assassin has Shadowform because of how direly important it is to the class.

While true, removing the form is removing a type of (possible) customization addition to what we can already do. As said, what we can do is limited this early in the game. A toggle on/off option would at LEAST give Assassins one additional way to customize their character (either being in Shadow Form or not). As said, some people walk around in costumes, and some walk around in their Profession outfits. It wouldn't be too horrible to have such an option for the Shadow Form as well, just as long as it's not a Wolf... Unicorn... Thing...

[Rhint]

While true, removing the form is removing a type of (possible) customization addition to what we can already do. As said, what we can do is limited this early in the game. A toggle on/off option would at LEAST give Assassins one additional way to customize their character (either being in Shadow Form or not). As said, some people walk around in costumes, and some walk around in their Profession outfits. It wouldn't be too horrible to have such an option for the Shadow Form as well, just as long as it's not a Wolf... Unicorn... Thing...

Whaaat? Keeping the form is removing every type of possible customization we can do! Not that I'm even advocating removing the form, just a toggle to where we aren't forced to use it.

[SoraOfKHK]

Whaaat? Keeping the form is removing every type of possible customization we can do! Not that I'm even advocating removing the form, just a toggle to where we aren't forced to use it.

Then maybe I've misunderstood you, or rather, perhaps we've misunderstood each other. You've been coming across as against my suggestion to have a toggle on/off option for the form appearance, with saying that it should just be the assassin, and saying that forms are not required. XD True that they're not required, they aren't entirely horrible, as long as they can be toggled on/off. I was also suggesting an alternate form, though, since the current one is ugly. Yes, the form covers every type of possible customization, but if it were a toggle on/off option, it would be an ADDITIONAL customization due to the fact that people could choose whether or not to wear it, just as they do with costumes, and Profession Clothing (hell as a newbie, I wore my Alchemist outfit for quite a while).

Edited by SoraOfKHK, 28 May 2013 - 05:06 AM.

[Rhint]

It's my opinion that asking for form replacers before we get a toggle is putting the cart before the horse. What all of us should be demanding first and in unison, is a toggle to turn off any and all forms. After that? When we can actually play as our damned characters? That's when you ask for a replacer for the shadow unicorn wolf. Because if you ask for a replacer first, we might not get a toggle at all.

[Atlessa]

If it's so good that everyone HAS to have it... why not just make it a passive/30 minute buff, without any appearance change?
(Like the seals of the mage class)

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a visual indicator that those buffs are on. Like a flamy aura for fire seal, shadowy aura for assassins etc.

[Mondaiji]

Didn't I say no discussing? This is supposed to be a poll with only suggestions ╥﹏╥

[raela]

Personally, I think the best option of visual indication + being able to see our gear would be the RO1 biolabs aura in the first post. It's a cool visual indication without obscuring our individuality. To go with the "shadow" theme, they could be dark instead of white, but the purpose still being that we can see our armor/costumes/etc.

Having a toggle for the old form still would be good for those who like it, though. I feel sorta bad that some effort was put into it and it's not well received.. but then again, how much effort? They didn't even give it walking or dancing actions, and all of the beastmaster forms got that.