Discussion: Knight

Hello, everyone.

We want to gather feedback on each class to better balancing.

This thread will be about the Knight class. If you've played Knight and have some constructive feedback to give to help improve the class, use this thread as that platform.

To make things easier to read, please use the following form:

Character:

Feedback Type: (Example: Skill/Stats/Suggestion)

Skill (If Applicable):

Feedback:

We appreciate all feedback given, and will use it when discussing changes to the studio.

Also, if you think another category in the form is required, let me know and I'll change it up!

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Stats/Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Aura Heal

Feedback: First of all, you already know my stance on the stat balancing of Knights vs other tanks. For those of you who haven't seen, I made a thread comparing the stats of Knights to Warriors, and needless to say we didn't fair out well at all I'll link it incase you wanna check it out. Note that I will be adding the other 2 tank classes to this as well (Monk and Beastmaster have been added) http://forums.warppo...ce-osiris-gear/

As for Aura Heal, I'll just rewrite my suggestion here since this is the appropriate place. Make it the exact same as Tension Relax, but flip the numbers. So instead of a 30% heal with 60% HoT over 30 seconds it would be 60% heal with 30% HoT over 30 seconds.

*If you already have the stats for the bosses in Darkwhisper Fortress, it should be a little easier to decide whether Knights need to be buffed, or other classes need to be nerfed. Personally, I think most classes are way too strong now so I'd be more in favor of a mass nerf to OP classes rather than a buff to those who are lacking.

Edited by Tiduspeco, 23 February 2014 - 11:21 AM.

Character: Claudiohp

Feedback Type:  skills

Skill (If Applicable): Chargue

Feedback: Fix the chargue skill, because sometimes when it run towards the target and for some reason it runs back, you're stuck in the animation forever.

also, i would recommend to give the knight something that makes us unique. For example, the beastmaster is the character with the highest HP in game, so it can be that the knight can be the class with the highest defense i think, but give a kind of difference that is noticeable, not a difference of 100 or 200 parry points above all class. Give us something so we can stop being the best tank if no other tank is around!.

Some skill like shield fortress after update seems to be useless now, i would suggest to change them or modify them. as some skills have a bonus with the aura sword, also give skills that have a bonus with the aura armor.

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Equipment

Skill (If Applicable): Shield

Feedback: We all know shield needs a buff, but I think it should be different than just "add STR, AGI, and more Def". Instead, I think the shield should have increased Defense (obviously) and the stats on it should be AGI, INT, WIS, and VIT. Why go this route? Because I believe compared to Warriors, what we lack in raw attack power, we should make up for with crit and INT for more crit power. I can't remember if the shield gives crit or not, but if not, it should be added.

As far as the shield goes, I think that's a pretty good fix for it I'll definitely be adding more to this thread.

Some skill like shield fortress after update seems to be useless now, i would suggest to change them or modify them. as some skills have a bonus with the aura sword, also give skills that have a bonus with the aura armor.

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Stats

Skill (If Applicable): Aura Shield, Shield Fortress

Feedback: Increase durration/effectiveness of these skills by a certain percent when Aura Armor is in effect.

Character: BaalMardikt

Feedback Type:  Stats & Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Aura Shield

Feedback: Nowadays, Knights has being gaining WIS, my question: "Why...?", Skill doesn't comsume that much, even in Low level, only once I run out of MP. And More important, at lv50 or higher, we have a Horrible Lack of "Hit rate" and "Parry", Knight are supposed to be the Main Tank, not the Bait. Is that possible to replace that "WIS" and give more "AGI" or Increase the Parry %?

About "Aura Shield", I already have write some recommendation:
 

Turn "Aura Shield" in a Real "Aura".

"Aura Shield": Focus all of your Aura on the Shield to reduce the damage taken by __%.

Also Increases Parry rate by __%.

Can be used with "Aura Blade" or "Aura Armor".

Level 1~5.

% Dmg reduced: 5-10-15-20-25.

% Parry rate up: 10-20-30-40-50.

If you want to know more about "What WE want for Knights", Time ago, I started a Topic about Knights, here's the link: http://forums.warppo...s/#entry1666116

Edited by BaalMardikt, 21 February 2014 - 05:07 PM.

 

Nowadays, Knights has being gaining WIS, my question: "Why...?"

It's not implimented yet, but WIS will effect elemental defense. That could be very importany when it comes.

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Equipment

Skill (If Applicable): Shield

Feedback: We all know shield needs a buff, but I think it should be different than just "add STR, AGI, and more Def". Instead, I think the shield should have increased Defense (obviously) and the stats on it should be AGI, INT, WIS, and VIT. Why go this route? Because I believe compared to Warriors, what we lack in raw attack power, we should make up for with crit and INT for more crit power. I can't remember if the shield gives crit or not, but if not, it should be added.

 

As far as the shield goes, I think that's a pretty good fix for it I'll definitely be adding more to this thread.

I agree with tidus, in RL shields are heavy and the main reason people use them is to parry attacks. All shields should have parry and damage reduction on them.

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Equipment

Skill (If Applicable): Sword

Feedback: Pre-AoV, the attack on the tank weapons was: Warrior=highest, Knight/BM=2nd highest, Monk=lowest. That formula worked great and we should absolutely go back to that.

Character: SouryuuSousui

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Shield Charge

Feedback:

For shield charge, is it possible to make it useful in up close & range? Phorokan shield charge skill works up close as well.

Edited by sousui198, 21 February 2014 - 06:56 PM.

Character: SouryuuSousui

Feedback Type: Skill

 

For shield charge, is it possible to make it useful in up close & range? Phorokan shield charge skill works up close as well.

I think the logic behind Shield Charge is that you need to build up speed before you hit them. So charging from 2 feet away won't do much good. However...

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Shield Charge

Feedback: Reduce the minimum animation time required to run before hitting the target. Only at max range will this skill look correct. If you use Shield Charge closer than max range, your character will run in place for a moment upon reaching the target. More times than not you'll charge at your target, do the running man in front of their face, then hit them with your shield. I think the minimum animation time is like 1.5-2 seconds atm so that should be lowered to about 0.5 seconds. Not a big issue but it's a small fix that would make sense.

Character: SouryuuSousui

Feedback Type: Suggestion

Feedback:

Why not making only sword getting stat boost instead of MUST having a shield to be complete? Sword will have all the STR, WIS & VIT and shield will increase in defence stats (parry & some extra hits). I kinda not see the reason why knights should deal less damage  or being '50% incomplete' without a shield.

Edit: '50% incomplete in terms of offensive stats"

Edited by sousui198, 21 February 2014 - 10:57 PM.

I think the logic behind Shield Charge is that you need to build up speed before you hit them. So charging from 2 feet away won't do much good. However...

 

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Shield Charge

Feedback: Reduce the minimum animation time required to run before hitting the target. Only at max range will this skill look correct. If you use Shield Charge closer than max range, your character will run in place for a moment upon reaching the target. More times than not you'll charge at your target, do the running man in front of their face, then hit them with your shield. I think the minimum animation time is like 1.5-2 seconds atm so that should be lowered to about 0.5 seconds. Not a big issue but it's a small fix that would make sense.

Yeap, the thing is the animation cause us to get stuck in the running. Why not make it instant like those of surprise attacks from rogues? Can be used at any range.

Character: Oriab

Feedback Type: equipment

Skill (If Applicable): shield

Feedback: Why does my master level shield have less stats and, better yet, less defense than my level 47 shield?

Character: Tiduspeco

Feedback Type: Stats/Skills

Skill (If Applicable): Aura Heal

Feedback: First of all, you already know my stance on the stat balancing of Knights vs other tanks. For those of you who haven't seen, I made a thread comparing the stats of Knights to Warriors, and needless to say we didn't fair out well at all I'll link it incase you wanna check it out. Note that I will be adding the other 2 tank classes to this as well. http://forums.warppo...ce-osiris-gear/

 

As for Aura Heal, I'll just rewrite my suggestion here since this is the appropriate place. Make it the exact same as Tension Relax, but flip the numbers. So instead of a 30% heal with 60% HoT over 30 seconds it would be 60% heal with 30% HoT over 30 seconds.

 

*If you already have the stats for the bosses in Darkwhisper Fortress, it should be a little easier to decide whether Knights need to be buffed, or other classes need to be nerfed. Personally, I think most classes are way too strong now so I'd be more in favor of a mass nerf to OP classes rather than a buff to those who are lacking.

Just a side note on Aura Heal. The description says it heals you and some allies nearby. It really does, but it will heal allies ONLY if you have the stacked aura + a proc of Aura Mastery. Also, if not mistaken, that ends up affecting only one of the allies, which should be 2 I believe.

It goes like this, for example:

3 Stacked Auras = Heals one ally

+

1 Proc of Aura Mastery = Heals yourself

It's a kind of crappy ability overall

Edit: but it wouldn't be nice having it heal allies so much if it changes like Tiduspeco is suggesting tho

Edit 2: I think Tension Relax is way too overpowered for a tank's heal. Don't like the idea of making knight's on par with that! If aura heal would actually heal the nearby allies for only 3 auras (not 4, 5 or 6), it would be a nice supportive approach for the class.

Edited by xLuc, 22 February 2014 - 12:46 AM.

Character: SouryuuSousui

Feedback Type: Skills & Suggestions

Feedback:

I suggest knights should have a passive skill for shield (lets name it "Shield Mastery") that can reflect/recoil back the damage being absorb when attacked based on certain percentage from the enemy and have increase on defensive skills. The higher the lvl of this skill, the more damage can be reflect back along with higher percentage of succession (say 20% of succession rate for max lvl). The position of Shield Mastery could be replaced with shield charge and shield charge can replace shield bash?

Edit: Or replace with Shield Boom Mastery?

Edited by sousui198, 21 February 2014 - 11:20 PM.

Character: Svansen

Feedback Type: Equipment

Skill (If Applicable): Sword & Shield

Feedback:

I really can't understand why the knight sword has the lowest min-max compared to the rest of the melee str based classes. True that we have the shield to compensate with that, but looking at the shield now it doesn't really give us the added boost to make us be able to compete evenly among Tank classes. It is good now that you guys placed runeholes on the Osiris shield.. but aside from that it doesn't really does much impact aside from the Hit we get from it. Am still using my chaos shield since it makes my char more useful in PVE .. I use the Osi shield for PVP but then again.. given our crappy Hit.. a few more hit from the said shield won't mean much as we still miss a lot.

Character: Svans3n

Feedback Type: Skill Bugged

Skill (If Applicable): Shield Charge

Feedback:

Using Shield Charge especially on a moving target will more or less get you stuck in the charge animation, worst the screen goes back and forth and give you an ultimate headache. Can't use skill and do anything. Best way is either wait to die from whatever is out there, or change channel. It has in a sense made me avoid using the said skill on several occassions as it has proven to be an inconvinience to me given its tendency to bug out like that all the time.

 

Character: Svans3n

Feedback Type: Skill Bugged

Skill (If Applicable): Shield Charge

Feedback:

Using Shield Charge especially on a moving target will more or less get you stuck in the charge animation, worst the screen goes back and forth and give you an ultimate headache. Can't use skill and do anything. Best way is either wait to die from whatever is out there, or change channel. It has in a sense made me avoid using the said skill on several occassions as it has proven to be an inconvinience to me given its tendency to bug out like that all the time.

 

I totally agree. I suggest it to be more like the surprise attack but no hiding & damage. Just get up close and stun.

*If you already have the stats for the bosses in Darkwhisper Fortress, it should be a little easier to decide whether Knights need to be buffed, or other classes need to be nerfed. Personally, I think most classes are way too strong now so I'd be more in favor of a mass nerf to OP classes rather than a buff to those who are lacking.

I remember Heim saying that the high "legit" stats that the honing system gave was meant to prepare everyone for the new content. A mass nerf would definitely go against it. Sorry wrong thread but this caught my attention.

Character: SouryuuSousui

Feedback Type: Skills

Skill : Grand Cross

Feedback:

I think knights should be mobile during GC to compensate for the low damage of gc and vice versa for warriors. 

Character: Tonydinh

Feedback Type: Skill/Suggestion

Skill (If Applicable): Aura Heal

Feedback: the heal actually heals 3 other targets for 1 if you have 6/6 in it (don't think thats intended).  An easy way to fix this skill is to just remove the aura requirement for it and just make it heal as though you have 3 aura-> 150/180/210/240/270/300% weapon dmg at 1/2/3/4/5/6.  If you're going to leave it as is, the heal it does needs to be increased dramatically(it heals for less than a prime dayr potion even when I crit).

Feedback Type:Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Grand Cross

Feedback: The damage on it is fine, but i often find it bugging out other skills such as Ymir when I try to use it afterwards.  I always get the error message of not being able to cast the skill even though I've already channeled it.  It would be cool to be able to move while casting GC, although its unlikely that a change like that would happen.

Feedback Type:Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Concentration

Feedback: The skill is just god awful with how low knight's attack power are compared to other classes and the aura consumption it takes to use the skill doesn't help much either.  Increase the % of atk it gives, remove the aura it requires to be casted, or increase the duration.

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Pet Summons

Feedback: Knights have by far the weakest pet summons due to our weapon's low dmg and our 2atk power per str while other classes get a way bigger benefit to atk power from str or int. If you compare a knight's pet to a warrior's in identical gear, the knight's will do less than 2/3 that of the warrior's(and their pet does not even do as much as a cres).

Feedback Type: Skill/stat

Skill (If Applicable): Guardian/shield/aura shield

Feedback: Put it on its own global cooldown. Right now, if you don't stop using skills for a second or so, but instead try to cast guardian right after you cast a skill, guardian will go off, but you won't get the buff and it goes on cooldown for 30mins.

As many have already stated, the a knight's shield is pretty bad at the moment.  It needs to have at least 1-2k more defense on it, 442def on an osiris shield is just a joke.  I'm also not a big fan of the haste and wis stats on it.  I would much rather have str/int/agi/vigor.

Aura shield, the skill I pretty much never use because it is a waste of a gcd atm.  Other people have already given some pretty good solutions for this such as increasing the duration or increasing its effectiveness.  You can probably even just replace the skill and just give us some kind of defensive passive.

Feedback Type: Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Grand Cross

Feedback: It tends to cast twice when you ordered it just once. This results in some troubles for moving, as the skill already roots you to the ground, then comes an unexpected 2nd cast that just screw things.

Would be cool to have this fixed.

I remember Heim saying that the high "legit" stats that the honing system gave was meant to prepare everyone for the new content. A mass nerf would definitely go against it. Sorry wrong thread but this caught my attention.

Well we can't really say that yet because as far as Njoror (head of RO2) and myself know, no information on the boss stats/HP have been released from Gravity yet. Honing makes balancing a lot more complicated because how are you supposed to balance the bosses with it in the game? Make the bosses fair to those with the best gear, runes, cards, refinement, and honing, but impossible to players who have none of those? Or make it fair to those players and have the high tier players just breeze through raids without any problems at all? Honing only increases the P2W gap, when in reality we really need to reduce it. If my assumption is correct and we get new ML runes, that will be 1 step to closing the gap.

Edited by Tiduspeco, 22 February 2014 - 10:55 AM.

The only thing good about knight imo is his "shield and spear" link to my topic

http://forums.warppo...t-shield-skill/

Edited by 1214681284, 22 February 2014 - 10:59 AM.