28 replies to this topic

[Correy]

Double attack or crit?

Pretty sure crit but my minds a bit foggy right now...

[Jaffer]

If you get a Crit double attack will be ignored is what I thought.

Edited by Jaffer, 24 December 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Xellie]

Do you mean.... does Double attack overide crit? Because if so... yes. attacks are calculated in this way....

Skill (y/n) -> crit (if skill this is bypassed most of the time) -> hit

If you want to know which damage then it also depends on classic or renewal?

[Irreparable]

Hello Correy,


it's critical hits.


Edit: Are you sure Xellie? I remember an old discussion about this where a assassin had crit gear + a jur with a sidewinder card and double attack almost never came up.


Greetings
Ascend

Edited by Ascend, 24 December 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Xellie]

Hello Correy,


it's critical hits.


Edit: Are you sure Xellie? I remember an old discussion about this where a assassin had crit gear + a jur with a sidewinder card and double attack almost never came up.


Greetings
Ascend

I am sure.

And here is why.

If you make an assassin and you don't get double attack (DA) as a skill, but you go crit/katar, your offhand crits will do 1 damage. this is because double attack level controls the offhand critical attack damage % in relation to katars.

Now, if you force DA to proc on a katar, via a card or a hat, then it will over-ride the crits. This is why as a crit sin I was able to level as a DD sin without critting with my daggers.
DA overrides it on daggers to make it actually useful.

DA only works on daggers as a passive skill. At this point it is forced to the front and crit takes priority ONLY if you meet the conditions of DA not proccing. That is why a crit sin using a katar doesn't DA. It changes the mechanic of the passive skill to affect their katar damage. When you use DA gear, it will take priority over crit.

Edited by Xellie, 24 December 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[Irreparable]

I am sure.

And here is why.

If you make an assassin and you don't get double attack (DA) as a skill, but you go crit/katar, your offhand crits will do 1 damage. this is because double attack level controls the offhand critical attack damage % in relation to katars.

Now, if you force DA to proc on a katar, via a card or a hat, then it will over-ride the crits. This is why as a crit sin I was able to level as a DD sin without critting with my daggers.
DA overrides it on daggers to make it actually useful.

DA only works on daggers as a passive skill. At this point it is forced to the front and crit takes priority ONLY if you meet the conditions of DA not proccing. That is why a crit sin using a katar doesn't DA. It changes the mechanic of the passive skill to affect their katar damage. When you use DA gear, it will take priority over crit.

Hello Xellie,


in that case, I stand corrected - I guess I should trust the words of someone who has a GX as their main after all, sorry =P



Greetings
Ascend

[DrAzzy]

Double attack, as well as any other similar skill, will always take priority over crit.

Can someone find the person who started claiming otherwise and beat them over the head with something? I've been correcting people on this for over 5 years.

[Correy]

So let me get this straight, if I have 100% crit rate and a snake head, I will still see double attacks correct?

[DrAzzy]

So let me get this straight, if I have 100% crit rate and a snake head, I will still see double attacks correct?

Yes.

The snake head will work as normal, and only the attacks for which double attack does not proc will crit.

[meoryou2]

I am sure.

And here is why.

If you make an assassin and you don't get double attack (DA) as a skill, but you go crit/katar, your offhand crits will do 1 damage. this is because double attack level controls the offhand critical attack damage % in relation to katars.

Now, if you force DA to proc on a katar, via a card or a hat, then it will over-ride the crits. This is why as a crit sin I was able to level as a DD sin without critting with my daggers.
DA overrides it on daggers to make it actually useful.

DA only works on daggers as a passive skill. At this point it is forced to the front and crit takes priority ONLY if you meet the conditions of DA not proccing. That is why a crit sin using a katar doesn't DA. It changes the mechanic of the passive skill to affect their katar damage. When you use DA gear, it will take priority over crit.

Uhhh, no? One: even with DA 0 offhand does more than 1 damage if you don't have crap weapons as a sin( not really noticeable until you start hitting 800-1K+ crits mainhand), it just does significantly less damage since it uses DA as the offhand damage mod. Two: the reason you could DD level even as a nat crit sin is because katar class weapons double the crit rate shown in the window plus you probably where not wearing any type of LUK / crit gear since DD is based all on DEX / STR .

Yes.

The snake head will work as normal, and only the attacks for which double attack does not proc will crit.

Uhh, since when? I've always had natural crit sins, even when using a sidewinder carded jur / chick hat thingy if your natural crit was 86% without the sidewinder that is what it is going to be WITH the sidewinder... you just DA the 14% that would have been ordinary hits ( as long as you have enough DEX to to land the HIT anyways ).



CRIT has always preceded both SKILL and HIT. CRIT - CRIT-shield = CRITHIT else > normal attack calcs including skills and DEX based HIT.

[Infernys]

Double Attack has a higher priority than critical hits. It states it on iRO wiki. I've tested it personally. Easiest way to test it is to get a Vanberk card and get the 100 CRIT proc. With 10 Double Attack, you will be getting roughly an even number of double attacks and critical hits, meaning Double Attack has a higher priority.

[vaxel]

What happens if you proc the DA, but miss? Will it crit instead?

[Riakuta]

If your crit is 100% Yes.
DA Level 10 = 50%
Crit % / 2 = Up to 50%.

[Xellie]

Uhhh, no? One: even with DA 0 offhand does more than 1 damage if you don't have crap weapons as a sin( not really noticeable until you start hitting 800-1K+ crits mainhand), it just does significantly less damage since it uses DA as the offhand damage mod. Two: the reason you could DD level even as a nat crit sin is because katar class weapons double the crit rate shown in the window plus you probably where not wearing any type of LUK / crit gear since DD is based all on DEX / STR .






Uhh, since when? I've always had natural crit sins, even when using a sidewinder carded jur / chick hat thingy if your natural crit was 86% without the sidewinder that is what it is going to be WITH the sidewinder... you just DA the 14% that would have been ordinary hits ( as long as you have enough DEX to to land the HIT anyways ).



CRIT has always preceded both SKILL and HIT. CRIT - CRIT-shield = CRITHIT else > normal attack calcs including skills and DEX based HIT.

Look, you're wrong. If you think I am wrong, video evidence will suffice.

[KriticalAssassin]

Double attack overrides crit. I use a snake head on my GX with over 100% crit rate and double attacks a heck of a lot. If crit had higher priority it would not double attack at all. Expesially while testing on monsters with no luk. Double attacks if I'm correct will hit slightly more damage than a crit but crit is a guided attack and is only fleed by "perfect dodge" rather than normal flee. So crit is better if you always want to hit your enemy. Double attack is better for hitlocking and ever so slightly better for dammage.

[meoryou2]

Look, you're wrong. If you think I am wrong, video evidence will suffice.

You first. You are the one claiming crap.

[Xellie]

You first. You are the one claiming crap.

I've played an assassin since '03.

Spoiler

<strike>I can make a video. But I'd have to buy an abrasive since the only crit gear I own is a triple crit jur on classic. If you donate me the kp I'll be happy to prove it. I mean I could prove it on renewal, but I don't think I own a chick hat on my account with three assassins classes. (inc : my crit sin) - but that means logging on renewal and finding my gear.<br><br>In the mean time you could just think.... "why doesn't a pure crit sin crit as much when using a chick hat? Surely their crit would render the hat useless!" followed by "Why doesn't a crit sin use DA ever when critting without a chick hat?"<br><br>You're probably the kind of person that doesn't even play a sin class and wouldn't even know what "triple attack is". I am right and people here have agreed with me.<br><br>Good day to you sir.</strike>

nvm video uploading.

Edited by Xellie, 25 December 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[Xellie]

consider the troll fed

[Pick]

+1

[Azerk]

Haha slammed on his face. Its always DA priority over crit.
+1

[TwinkieAddict]

From what I remember:
pre-renewal had crit > DA
but renewal is crit < DA for priority.

[Xellie]

From what I remember:
pre-renewal had crit > DA
but renewal is crit < DA for priority.

wouldn't that mean chick hat is worthless on a crit sin?

[TwinkieAddict]

depends on what you are going for in renewal. If you want 100% hit, then yes. If you are going for max damage potential, then no.
As for pre-renewal I remember avoiding crit like the plague on my rogue cuz it messed with my double attacks.

[DrAzzy]

depends on what you are going for in renewal. If you want 100% hit, then yes. If you are going for max damage potential, then no.
As for pre-renewal I remember avoiding crit like the plague on my rogue cuz it messed with my double attacks.

No, it didn't, people just thought it did, like that guy posting earlier.

You avoided crit because half of it was wasted due to double attack.

Edited by DrAzzy, 26 December 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[Xellie]

As for pre-renewal I remember avoiding crit like the plague on my rogue cuz it messed with my double attacks.

My video was taken on classic, but I know also that the case is the same on renewal.

This has always been this way, it's never changed.

DA > crit.