29 replies to this topic

[Magefist]

With VIP, BMs and the 1.5 exp rate and occasional exp events, is it really necessary to have these easy turn in events? Getting 99 should be a long term goal and not something that you can get in a few hours to a few days.

[Roda]

Agreed. I remember when it took at least 6 months to 99 the first time on a hunter. Now it's cheese. TI's would be overkill.

[Jaffer]

I think turn ins would be fine if they were forced to be share parties. Normal turn ins wouldn't hurt and could encourage playing in different areas.

A turn in giving 30 million EXP is the issue, not the concept of turn ins themselves. It'd be nice if there were TIs that gave 1~5m per, and actually difficult to do.

[Magefist]

If we have those low exp turn ins with difficult monsters, you will see a lot of people complaining about it on forums. I really hope that the dragon turn in is the last.

[Ralis]

The regular turnins we had before Renewal weren't that bad. I think they helped quite a few people play that wouldn't have otherwise... After all, if you don't really know anyone you're going to be soloing for quite some time until a good guild will even let you in. They stopped at 86, though, so after that you were on your own.

Dragons, however, was completely and totally unnecessary, especially this early on. 99 trans should be an accomplishment, not something you have five of in the span of two weeks. =/ Unfortunately, I think the damage is pretty much irreparable now. People that try to start Classic later will now be at a huge disadvantage unless we have things like Ice Titans or Dragons again in the future.

[TheUraharaShop]

The problem is the game doesn't have a naturally written direction. The point where any new player would, like today for example, today 1/25, there isn't story that will guide that player through from level 1/1 to 150/50. Let alone well developed plot devices that that would aid the conveyance of content and quests together. The Kill Counts and Turn In's were the short term solution to the lack of that in the game.

Many excuse a written game direction by saying the game is open world you can do what you want. However when looking at the games that made the sandbox open world genre like Balders Gate and Grand Theft Auto, they have an over abundance of quests, side quests, mini stories, missions, special items, ect. Which means there is a definitive direction the player can take as directed by the additional content.

The community associates Grinding with the only direction or game designed mechanic you can take with iRO; it creates a strange problem. Grinding was put in to place in many games as a way to keep players busy until new content was developed; the player couldn't just level up to out pace the difficulty of the future content. The game Meridian 95 literally invented grinding because of the content that created wasn't enough to keep players busy for the 3 to 5 month projection they had. Players finished all the content with in 4 hours of the official release.

As a result for future content updates they put in to place quests similar to what we would call Kill Counts and Turn-In's, however they expanded beyond the world of PVE, just letting players kill monsters and took them on a journey that you could only experiences in a D&D session, creating the skeleton of the modern MMO experience.

When looking at iRO the only immersive experience is the sudo reward mechanics of leveling up system. When looking at honest open world games like Skyrim and Grand Theft Auto, we see an entirely different experiences which is solely built on the choice of completing more quests, which many of the community are against, for one reason or another. The solution that was created was the Turn-in's and Kill Counts and when looking at how that ties in to any other game mechanic or content it easy to see how those quests look like an event that has only been stretched on for 3 years.

Turn-in's and Kill Counts have to be re-designed as a tool to pull players in to the game, the contents and the mechanics. This wouldn't be targeted towards old players but as away to allow new players to feel more apart of the Franchise. In the same way the Kill Counts can be redesigned to reward the Grinding playing style others choose to accept.

The game is long do for a legitimate over haul. The best examples of this is found by Machinima's All Your History. Covering over the last 40 years of gaming and showing how the industry both foreign and domestic has thrived and fallen. We need to take the time to build the threads between with our content to focus on telling the story of iRO better.

As a direct stab at the problem for the Kill Counts and Turn-In's. The system is set up to grind, but rewards players only EXP. Which makes it less appealing to the majority of players who are at the max level to begin with. Creating a reward system that can better target players who are at the End-Game such as high counts for a completion coupled with rewarding players with content that is hard to come by will offer the grind many want, give rewards worth while for those who do push through and allow content to be developed since very little over sight needed for content like that.

http://www.youtube.c.../allyourhistory

Edited by TheUraharaShop, 25 January 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[Jaffer]

I don't see why people are so fixated on leveling.

The problem is now that the server has been "tainted." Not putting any more turn ins would be unfair to new players. They need a more effective way to deal with bad parties, though (such as forced share or if you're in a party of 12, you have to kill 12 mobs for it to count as "one kill").

[Magefist]

New players can grind. I don't want them to be spoon fed by turn ins.

[TheUraharaShop]

New players can grind. I don't want them to be spoon fed by turn ins.

That's implying that leveling is the only point of playing and grinding is the only way to create a level of difficulty. Hence is the reason new players are turned off by the game.


Just the mere fact that...
It takes about 40 hours to reach level 85, collect good gear and drops - by the standard game model
Or buy a bunch of WP points to convert in to KP and then buy Kafra Shop Items to sell to players to get caught up to speed in a FREE TO PLAY GAME
Or Just buy zeny illegally again in a FREE TO PLAY GAME
Or just grind it out and hopefully after playing this game like a full time job they'll have something to show for it

has detoured many to move on to other games that are doing the exact opposite that what you are recommending...


PS: Grinding is something that most players do alone. It's not something a party ever does. If you like playing an MMO alone, there can be content added to suit that. But to the contrary, a player should not have to play alone for hours just to average a 1.2m per hour and while a party (Like in old school thors and bios) can easily rack up to 20-30m per hour... There is a huge problem when that becomes the "normal".

Edited by TheUraharaShop, 25 January 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[AMzobud]

New players can grind. I don't want them to be spoon fed by turn ins.

Wouldn't want those new people joining being WoE ready in less then 5 months!

I don't get the deal with "leveling should be special" and "99 should be an accomplishment"

This game is 12 years old, most people don't play for the grind.

If you really wanted to make 99 that special nerf all exp needed by -_-tons, and put that exp needed into 98>99 instead. But it's to late for that anyway.

[loveSummer]

It was overkill because you could start the TI at level 70. So basiaclly once you hit 70, you pretty much got a free ride to 99. I'm not complaining thou, but if you stop the TI's now, then it's pretty stupid for the newer players to see all the 99 trans and having to grind months for it, they'll get discouraged and leave.

[Joatmon]

It's pretty stupid IMO to even suggest putting people through the torture of slow grinding. Ragnarok is a game, not a job. I want to be able to play, have fun, and do things with friends. When most content in both RO servers is -end-game-. The real problem is not that people are lvling to quickly, it's that they are pressured to -WORK- on a GAME for MONTHS.


If you REALLY wanna slow down lvling, MAKE IT FUN, don't NERF it.

[Minsyy]

New players can grind. I don't want them to be spoon fed by turn ins.

So you like the fact you have been spoon fed and dont want other players to have that?

[LazyStevz]

I remember one day, before 2-2 classes existed, I wanted to venture out and explore what was out there in the world of Ragnarok.

1st Instance:
Sitting and randomly chatting to people in S.Prontera when a Priest turns up and puts down a warp. So, in my infancy, I jump in. I end up at Glas Heim the last place a lvl 25 Thief should be at the time. I mis-calculated having any Bwings and no one is there that can really help me. So, rather than wait, I attempt to find my way out. Low and behold I take a wrong turn and see the infamous Abysmal Knight. It moved slowly towards me but I was petrified with fear at the sheer sight of it I didn't do anything but recieve a single swing of about 13k damage. Although I died I didn't regret ever meeting such a conclusion and learnt there are 'things' out there.

2nd Instance:
I was helping random players becoming Assassins as 2-2 was about to roll out. A Knight, a Wizard and myself were parading the map doing the normal grind. The knight manages to find a Katar of Quaking as we're about to leave and mentioned they're starting an Assassin. Me being peeved off about their luck I say I'm not leaving until i get one. They tell me the odds are against me but they actually continue the grind with me... 3 hours later I get one. We all celebrated with the dancing Acolytes in Morroc.

What I'm getting at? The sense of adventure. Despite what people would say is a limited amount of quests and storyline (Although that didn't stop Tetris and Smash Bros being decent titles to play, IMO) what it didn't lack was the spark which sends people to find out for themselves. Now we're caught up in databases and guides where the exploration isn't found. Compared to these days, you could randomly chat to someone while hunting mobs. Now that personal interaction is unheard of. Stats are predominantly discussed as a need rather than loose guidance. The sense of adventure dimmed. I'm not sure if that has to do with the amount of time passed or the failures of certain implementations like quests but that's the biggest stab to most veteran players. Not all content was end game it was there throughout. You had to 'Grow' with it. Turn-ins, at the best of times, are geared to those to gain with minimal effort and with a lack of respect for neighbouring players. Which brings me to the last instance.

3rd instance:
Abyss Lake turn-Ins. Third time I think. Bunch of people waiting to get into a party. I chat with someone who I encourage to start a party. 20 mins later they give up due to stress (I know all to right about this). So the baton gets passed to me. I assemble a very decent party. We head to the 3rd floor and find a spot. Not once but 3 times we're greeted by Detard. First 2 times we managed to escort it away from any trouble (Like other spots) with minimal casualties. 3rd time wipes the party. Why? Because another party wanted our spot and dragged the MVP to us to get rid of us. (Funnily enough, after this incident, I was put in a questionable party with many being non-transed and under equipt. We lasted for a good 4 hours. Probably the best party I've been in)

... Difference?

[Magefist]

So you like the fact you have been spoon fed and dont want other players to have that?

me spoon fed? You are joking right? I grinder to reach level 97 trans.

[Magefist]

It's pretty stupid IMO to even suggest putting people through the torture of slow grinding. Ragnarok is a game, not a job. I want to be able to play, have fun, and do things with friends. When most content in both RO servers is -end-game-. The real problem is not that people are lvling to quickly, it's that they are pressured to -WORK- on a GAME for MONTHS.


If you REALLY wanna slow down lvling, MAKE IT FUN, don't NERF it.

yeah turn ins WOOoOOO!!! So everyone can 99 easily. Yeah that makes perfect sense NOT.

[Minsyy]

yep, and now theres turnins you use aswell. and have used too. so new players should suddenly now do it the hard way now that you had your way with it? seems rather unfair to me

[Magefist]

yep, and now theres turnins you use aswell. and have used too. so new players should suddenly now do it the hard way now that you had your way with it? seems rather unfair to me

lol I didn't do the dragon turn ins.

[Joatmon]

yeah turn ins WOOoOOO!!! So everyone can 99 easily. Yeah that makes perfect sense NOT.

You read nothing I said did you >_>
"Oh, this person doesn't agree with my elitist, close minded opinion, because he posted a contrary opinion. Lets not read what he actually said and be a smart Alec jerk face about it and be sarcastic, wooooooo"


I said lvling should be fun, and not hard. I said nothing about turn ins.


What I was saying, was people need to get off their high horses, just because you chose to suffer for months on a GAME doesn't mean the community wants to, cap ish? The turn ins are to ease the stress of lvling. You don't want a stressful GAME. Then there's no poi t in calling it a game.

[Viri]

If leveling was actually difficult and not just tedious and mindless it might make sense to not have turn ins. I'd honestly be okay if they just let everyone have a 99 of every class. Gear, builds and player skill are the only things that matter within the confines of the game anyway.(except cheating but yeah)

[Magefist]

You read nothing I said did you >_>
"Oh, this person doesn't agree with my elitist, close minded opinion, because he posted a contrary opinion. Lets not read what he actually said and be a smart Alec jerk face about it and be sarcastic, wooooooo"


I said lvling should be fun, and not hard. I said nothing about turn ins.


What I was saying, was people need to get off their high horses, just because you chose to suffer for months on a GAME doesn't mean the community wants to, cap ish? The turn ins are to ease the stress of lvling. You don't want a stressful GAME. Then there's no poi t in calling it a game.

Leveling is FUN. its called making friends and getting a priest to go with you to other dungeons and leveling there. I reached level 97 trans without doing turn ins. Guild dungeon and magma dungeon FTW.

[Joatmon]

Leveling is FUN. its called making friends and getting a priest to go with you to other dungeons and leveling there. I reached level 97 trans without doing turn ins. Guild dungeon and magma dungeon FTW.

Cause everyone who plays RO automatically has friends and a guild.
And everyone likes to be bothered with partying all them time
Yeah
Lets go with that
Don't assume, please.

[Magefist]

Cause everyone who plays RO automatically has friends and a guild.
And everyone likes to be bothered with partying all them time
Yeah
Lets go with that
Don't assume, please.

I said earlier "its called making friends and getting a priest to go with you to other dungeons and leveling there." Get slammed. If you don't know how to level then that's your problem.

Edited by Magefist, 18 February 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Joatmon]

Again, you're not reading =_=

[Arkuss]

Every point was already been addressed imo

1) Game is rly old. You will rarely ever see a "New" Ragnarok Online player anymore, normally pserver transfers or old iRO players coming back

2) 5 months at x map or 3 weeks at x map what does it matter. Level grinding is tedious and no skill is involved on either Pre-Re or Renewal Systems.

3) Even though turn ins accellerate your leveling speed you still need to go grind gear

4) If your stat build is bad you're bad, regardless of level.

Why make people sit in x map for months on end just because they need to "earn" it. Some sort of grind is fine but the days of months and months of grinding has long since passed. Most of those who play this game now are mainly here for WoE or the top end PvM environment. Nobody logs in with a smile on their face that they need to kill 2,000-4,000 high orcs to get their next level (or more depending on level and classic/re)