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#1 Clogon

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 05:28 AM

Quote from other topic:

This here is a massive list of bugs and complains that will NOT be fixed in the latest kRO Ranger balancing patch or any patches up to date.

Hunter Branch Complaints:

Hunter Trap's HP is too low (3500 HP with no Def) they can be destroyed too easily by buffed Arrow Shower while trying to stack or reposition them. Possible fix would be to double their HP.

Auto Cast Blitz Beat is still dependent on j.lvl even as Ranger and is even more useless as Rangers can't use both pets at once. It gives PVM Rangers absolutely no reason to keep or even get Falcon skills because the Falcon in PVM does not have the damage or utility comparable to the Warg/Wug. Possible fix see below.

Falcon Assault is very weak for a skill with 0.5s fixed + 1s variable casting time and 3s aftercast delay compared to the many instant cast skills available to the Archer. Possible fix would be to allow it to be auto casted instead of Blitz Beat if you have this skill at job level 51 or higher Sniper or if you are a Ranger.

Focus Arrow Strike's 1s fixed casting time is WAY too high for this skill to be of any use. Possible fix would be to remove the Fixed casting time of this skill.

Wind Walker's Fixed casting time is needlessly high for such an underpowered buff. Possible fix would be to remove the fixed casting time.

Fear Breeze's Damage output is ABYSMAL compared to similar skills from even first class! This skill at level 5 has a 10% chance to activate. Once activated it has a chance to do 2~5 hits, this chance is distributed as 40% for 2 hits, 30% for 3, 20% for 4 and 10% for 5. There for the DPS output is 0.1*(0.4*2+0.3*3+0.2*4+0.1*5)+0.9*1=1.2x. This means that your DPS with normal attacks only will increase to 1.2x. However This skill is not only a 3rd class skill but requires casting, and extra Arrows (therefor extra weight) and 17 skill points to master. Double attack (passive 1st class no requirement skill that gives bonus hit AND doesn't consume extra arrows) gives a DPS of 0.5*2+0.5*1=1.5x! Lets even compare it to other skills in the Ranger's arsenal instead like Falcon Eyes which also gives +20% damage to skills or Warg Strike that also doesn't consume Arrows and will give more DPS than Fear Breeze with only 12 luk (12/3% activation * 600% damage mod = +24% DPS)! The problem with this skill is that not only is it active and requires a lot of skill points and ARROWS! This skill can also activate even if you kill the monster with 1 hit wasting up to 5 Arrows for monster that only required 1. Doing any of the following will make this skill a lot better:
1) Make it passive and not consume arrows
2) Make it separate attacks instead of extra hits so we can have more chances to status, auto cast and Crit.
3) Make it always deal the maximum number of hits so that it will have a dps output of 1.4x instead of the current 1.2x.

Ranger Main should affect Insects too just like Beast Bane.

Elemental converter traps (Magenta, Cobalt, Maze and Vendure Traps) are way too expensive for what they do. 1 elemental stone is too much for a cost if it only affects normal monsters that can be killed easily by changing Arrow element. More than 50% of the Ranger's damage skills are forced Neutral anyways which deal 100% damage to all monsters except Ghost. While the ones that aren't uses element depending on Arrows. And the elemental Stones are damn heavy! Rangers already need to carry Traps and Arrows for their excursions 10 extra weight for every time they want to use 1 skill that only lasts until a normal monster's death is way too much! This skill can be better with any of the following:
1) Lower cost from elemental stone to 1 Scorpion Tail, 1 Snail's Shell, 1 Horn, or 1 Rainbow Shell.
2) Allow it to affect players, summons and homunculii for a set duration.
3) Allow it to affect boss monsters including MVP's for a set duration.

Electric Shock doesn't affect MVP's and the SP drain at level 5 is too weak to warrant getting this skill beyond lvl 1. Duration remains the same regardless of level and because it is reduced by Agi/10 witha min duration of 7s on players draining 35% SP over 7 seconds is quite negligible.

Warg/Wug Strike and Bite requires pathable cells between the caster and the target and is therefore blocked by Ice Wall and cannot be used for "cliffing" in siege or normal maps. Please change this.

Spoiler


It is nice that you reduced the casting time of Wind Walk but I still think it is too high. It is not like it is an overly powerful Buff. The Movement speed does not stack with AGI UP and it only gives +5 flee for the cost of 100 sp. Now with the new AoE AGI up from AB's, this skill will be used even less and probably only on solo Hunters and Snipers. I really see no problem in allowing this skill to have 0 fixed casting time.
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#2 SamuelAdams

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:49 AM

"Warg/Wug Strike and Bite requires pathable cells between the caster and the target and is therefore blocked by Ice Wall and cannot be used for "cliffing" in siege or normal maps. Please change this."

I think that it should be changed to if there are pathable cells between the WARG and the enemy... Not the caster... Because it makes sense since the warg doesn't fly like the falcon. Could make sense if he "leaps" though. xD
I think this class branch got the -_- end of the stick ever since seeing the renewal skills for the first time compared to other classes tbh.
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#3 Pravin

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:58 AM

Thats nothing new Samuel, hunter/sniper class has never got anything much in any episodes, its all about the other classes, no wonder there arent as many snipers around as the other classes. I am glad they atleast gave us a few bows lately.
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#4 Clogon

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 01:26 PM

@Pravin:
Most of them suck. The only good Bow is Elven bow. <.<
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#5 Pravin

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 02:41 PM

Yeah, Although in pre renewal, the orc archer bow wasnt bad if you happened to have aspersio or cursed water or endow in general. Even ixions wings, cursed lyre, and nepenthes bows are good if you manage to get them to +7 since they are level 4 weapons and the upgrade bonus is super awesome for them. But I suppose in renewal, elven bow will no doubt dominate and I think with the new upgrading ores, people will spend millions and billions to get a +15 elven bow or something like that. If they fix the bug with the overupgrade bonus for 2 handed weapons, I might even go as far to try and get ixions wings or nepenthes bow above +10 and use that instead of getting elven bow to +15. I play on valkyrie, so I havent had the taste of renewal yet. So, les see how things turn out. Also, is the dragon manteau combo active in renewal ? I am sure its going to replace the pantie undie combo. And the bradium brooch, does it give crit + 4 with a slot ? or is the doddler description wrong ? If it is wrong then I might have to go thru the pain of killing satan morroc to get the death loop to get crit + 5 accesory with a slot. -_-

Edited by Pravin, 17 October 2010 - 02:49 PM.

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#6 Weavel

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:13 PM

Also whenever you are attacking with a falcon and Blitz Beat is autocasted, the falcon only flies toward the enemy but nothing else happens.
No damage, no random numbers or anything, I dunno if Im the only one who has this problem.
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#7 Sera

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:45 PM

Also about that mechanic balancing patch from kRO... oh wait, there isn't one.
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#8 MeccaHoly

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:55 AM

its ok, even though we dont get what others do, be proud to be a ranger!
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#9 Pravin

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 08:32 AM

I have always been proud to be a hunter class, Ive never made any other class right since 2004 except OC/DC vend slave. I think the hunter/sniper/ranger class is the most fun to play and if you get the right build and equips and know how to play the char well, can pwn most classes in pvm or pvp. And I am looking forward to making the ranger soon enough. Although we dont get as much as others, its mostly because we dont need much, we pwn anyways :P
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#10 TurrTurr

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:02 PM

-Focus Arrow Strike NEEDS to loose it's fixed cast time, it's absolutely stupid it's taken this long for that skill to get fixed.

-I don't mind Wind Walker's cast so much, but lowering the SP cost would help tons.

-Maybe lower Warg Rider's SP cost too? Seems kinda silly that should cost any real amount of SP in the first place.

-Agreeing with everything else Clogon already commented about, mainly Fear Breeze and Warg Strike/Bite.

Really just hoping for the Ranger buffs from kRO (Camo and such) ASAP.
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#11 SamuelAdams

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 03:13 PM

Everyone's gonna complain about cast time. (Points to av cast time thread)
It's part of the changes renewal brought. I think there are bigger things to change imo.
I'm surprised not as many mage classes are complaining?
But then again, probably because archer class had easier time getting insta-cast and is not used to cast time...

Ranger - "Strength and Honor!" :P

(As for your sp thing, there is a reason why this class now gets a passive int skill along with greater int than even dex as a job bonus...)

Edited by SamuelAdams, 18 October 2010 - 03:15 PM.

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#12 Pravin

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 06:32 PM

I do agree that fear breeze's chance should probably be increased a bit since we cannot alter the skill tree or any other thing related to it ( maybe we can have the extra hits trigger warg strike or crit, but it maybe a code thing which cannot be altered at this point ? ) I dont mind Wind Walker's cast, even the SP needed for it, in my opinion might be a lot, but it stays on long too, so some people might consider the sp cost justified, also its for the whole party.
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#13 SamuelAdams

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:25 PM

Windwalker... When I played a sniper like half a year ago, it would go away when going to different maps. Change in map servers I believe is when it would happen. xP

If it's gonna cost alot of SP and have a reasonable cast time this should be fixed. I think this is the same issue with preserve? (I don't know if they have fixed it or not, and never played rogue trans class)

The fear breeze description when I read it I was thinking cool, but no. xD Said above fixes. xP
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#14 Clogon

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 02:14 AM

@Weavel:
You do know that Auto Blitz hits depends on your Job level right? At jlvl, 1~11 you will only get 1 hit and won't see it turn yellow or do much damage at all.

@SamuelAdams:
That "bug" still exists. Windwalker like many trans skills are removed when you change map servers. I don't mind the SP cost much since Rangers get a lot of SP.

Reasons why:

Arrow Repel:
This one I actually don't care if it has some fixed casting (since my class has Phantasm Arrow which is instant cast and does the same thing...) but a full 1.5s fixed casting makes this skill useless. This skill is only used for the purpose of knocking an opponent away to save either yourself or a party member. Why would ANYONE use a skill that requires 1.5s instead of the many instant cast knockback skills?


Focus Arrow strike:
A very weak skill with the current fixed casting time. Because of the 1s Fixed casting time (Notice how it is 50% and not 20% of total casting time <.<) and the 1.5s after cast delay, the dps is horrid compared to Arrow Shower which does 250% every second. Comparing the DPS you have:

FAS: 450% AoE damage that requires aiming and positioning every 2.5s + variable casting time (You won't get instant cast during your Sniper stage)
Arrow Shower: 250% AoE damage that can knock back the mob for protection every 1s (unreducable animation time)

So FAS does maximum 180% (252% IF you have 100 Crit on the monsters) every second when you have no variable casting time vs Arrow Shower's 250% every second that does not requite anything other than the skill itself.



Windwalk:
This skill is not a very strong buff and there is absolutely no reason why it should have fixed casting time. +5 flee is negligible compared to AoE buffs that casts faster and have way better effects.

Blitz Beat and FA:
These skill's have 1s and 1.5s After cast delay respectively. They do lower damage than Arrow Shower and DS while costing more SP. Once you are a Ranger you can't even use these skills since Warg's are so much better PVM. Why do these skill have fixed casting time?


Melody Strike:
Yes this skill does not have aftercast delay BUT 2nd and trans performers CANNOT get instant cast from stats solo anymore! Even in a party they will NEED the new and rare Genetic foods and invest MASSIVELY into Int. If you are still worried about this skill having no hard coded delay then just put a 0.1s after cast delay just like you did to Double Strafe but this skill is already weaker than DS with only 260% damage compared to 190%*2 (380%).


Arrow Vulcan:
This skill already has the 1s after cast to prevent it from being exponential. Even if a trans performer gets 150 dex and 100 int, they would still have 1-squareroot([Dex+Int/2)/265)~=13% variable casting time. AV has 3.8s total casting time so a trans performer that invested into high dex and int to get 100 int and 150 dex would still have 0.13*3.8=0.49s of casting! Even when they become 3rd classes, reducing all variable casting time through stats is very difficult! If they invest 120 base INT and 120 base Dex, they would still require MASSIVE amounts of stat buffs like genetic foods, Kafra foods and/or Battle Chant! Without stat buffs, they would only get at most 140 int and 170 dex which is still 1-squareroot([180+150/2)/265)~=4.8% variable casting time. Small? Yes, but casting time none the less and at GREAT stat point cost too leaving only enough room for 80 of another stat at base level 150.


FAS is currently being GREATLY out DPSed by Arrow Shower! That is just how bad the fixed casting time is. >.<

Edited by Clogon, 19 October 2010 - 02:14 AM.

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#15 Katz

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:01 PM

Ranged Skills are bad now.

FAS needs better cast time big time.
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#16 SamuelAdams

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:22 PM

FAS has a greater AOE than arrow shower though... :x (3X3 square centered around where you fire it vs 2X6 flight path from first target hit)
I always thought of the skill as like a carefully aimed sniper shot that hits one guy severely then plows forward hitting more.
Maybe the damage should be increased and leave the cast time be? :x
^Thinking out loud here. Plus this might make their "one shot one kill" saying a bit more true.

Edited by SamuelAdams, 21 October 2010 - 04:24 PM.

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#17 Kaden14

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:05 PM

Why would you ever use fas on a ranger?
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#18 SamuelAdams

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:29 AM

Why would you ever use fas on a ranger?

I think it more relates to sniper? This isn't only a ranger discussion but the whole branch. -.-
Either way it being outdone by ARROW SHOWER of all things is pretty sad... :x
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#19 Pocky

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:23 AM

can people hide/cloak under warg bite??? the delay on keen nose makes it very useless as people will just re-hide
isit possible to change keen nose to something like detect?

edit: DS has a delay now?

Edited by Pocky, 31 October 2010 - 09:25 AM.

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#20 Clogon

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:18 AM

@SamuelAdams:
Arrow Shower has been 5x5 for a VERY long time now. <.<

@Pocky:
Bite Prevents Cloak and Hide BUT 40% is very unreliable!
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#21 Seraphiel

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:20 AM

Arrow Storm needs some major balancing. It is nowhere as good and useful as severe rainstorm, and Ranger is the main bow user not Wanderer, something is wrong here...
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#22 Clogon

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:30 AM

Arrow Storm won't get any better even with the new kRO balancing. I just give up on this skill as Traps are just so much better. FAS actually has uses as Sniper especially if we get the Hunter trap nerf.
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#23 Prodigy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:17 AM

Putting Sniper aside, looking at Hunters, their skillset really was focused more on traps and their Falcon, so I guess that's why kRO branched out from that and decided for rangers to focus more on traps and their new "pet" Warg.
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#24 SamuelAdams

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:33 PM

Arrow Shower has been 5x5 for a VERY long time now. <.<

Really? Seemed like if I didn't do it exactly one square off something it wouldn't hit... :x
Just went and tested it. 3X3
Unless there is some bug where it only affects 3X3 if you don't target anything.

Edited by SamuelAdams, 25 October 2010 - 12:36 PM.

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#25 Quazera

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:51 PM

edit: DS has a delay now?

^ this O.O?

pls say it aint true!!!
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