37 replies to this topic

[synesthetic]

I only ever play healing, support, and DPS classes, so what you tanks do is generally an enigma to me. If you can keep all of the aggro on you without being a damage sponge, then I love you. But sometimes there's the random case of a monster not attacking your kind, and it stays that way until it dies.
Why is this?

I understand that in the case of bosses, they will randomly target party members with a skill. But sometimes the boss then stays on that target even though the tank still has the most threat?
What about when it's a regular monster? I'll see someone else aggro a monster first, but the tank can't (or is it won't?) pull it off.


Go into as much detail as you want. The more I learn about how taunting works, the better.

[Shouichirou]

Sometimes the "locked" aggro stays due to the "victim" not moving out of range. the tank could try their best to out-aggro them by multiples, but as long as the "victim" does not move out of the range (to un-bug the monster), the aggro will remain locked.

Should also be mentioned that this tendency to "lock" also occurs after a "random target" skill.

Edited by Shouichirou, 16 April 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Rennie246]

Attacking a monster first or healing somebody before the tank as aggro sometimes causes monsters to lock on the first person they aggro for a while even if somebody else as more threath generated.The best way to hold aoe aggro for a tank is usually to go in first use a multi hit attack then use a potion, the pot will generate a lot of aoe aggro since healing generate double aggro and that's amped by the tanks 300% aggro boost to 600% of the HP the pot restored.

Basicly you never want to attack anything or heal anybody before the tank as aggro and you should be ok.

Edit: also keep in mind that the ''Taunt'' skills actually don't make that much aggro but they replace your current aggro whit the aggro of the person in your party that as the most aggro, so taunting a enemy that's already attacking you isen't really useful.

Edited by Rennie246, 16 April 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[StryfeK]

Rennie pretty much covered everything. So to help people get an idea of what this whole "threat" business is, here's a picture. Notice that the one at the top is the Main Tank ( a monk ), and the Off Tank is second ( Me ). In the case that the Main Tank dies (His threat will go to 0), the aggro will go to me to hold. When the monk is resureccted, he will taunt and regain his threat .



Hope this helps!

[Terr]

If the monster is on you and you and then shortly after the tank/someone else gains more hate on the mob and it's still on you, just move and it should go to whoever is on top of the mob's hate list.

[hongaun]

Taunt will bring up to the top of the threat list, by adding a 10% to current highest level threat. If you are already at the top of the threat list, taunting as no effect.

However,it will take a while before the boss switches target.

Like, rennie said, Pots are the best way for tanks to increase their aggro. I use a lot of Red Pot V for this purpose. In very occasions where tanks need to build aggro fast, they can use do taunt rotation and drink maestro pots. (when MT taunt is ready, other tanks taunt simultaneously and MT taunt at the end to regain threat). rotational taunt is vital when it comes to high end raids.

[Shouichirou]

Basically, the principles of taunt should already be explained in detail above.

But if you happen to find yourself (or an unfortunate party member) within an "aggro lock" of a certain monster (despite the members having higher threat levels). Try to have the person run around in attempt to shake of the "lock".

Not sure if the "aggro lock" may be a bug or not, but I quite enjoy the principle of the system (forcing the "target" to pay more attention and run around in attempts to "shake them off", rather than purely trusting the threat gauge).

Edited by Shouichirou, 16 April 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[hongaun]

Yeap, in this case casters will actually need to move around instead of remaining static. And btw, do take note that unlike WoW...priests has no fading skill to reduce the threat...so please be careful...

From experience, the classes that poses the most threat to tanks are rangers and sorcs...their threat could out-aggro due to the insane burst damage at the beginning...

[synesthetic]

Interesting.
For the healing before aggro part though, using only Renovatio on you guys until you AoE seems to be fine.

And I read elsewhere around here that Beastmaster's heal doesn't generate any threat, whereas other tanks' heals do? Regarding that and HP pot usage, do you still gain threat if you heal even though you're at full HP?
I've played other games where tanks have asked me to not keep them topped off because if the effective amount they heal is less, they generate less threat. I don't think it'd be an issue here either way, but I'm just curious.

[rollchan]

Interesting.
For the healing before aggro part though, using only Renovatio on you guys until you AoE seems to be fine.

And I read elsewhere around here that Beastmaster's heal doesn't generate any threat, whereas other tanks' heals do? Regarding that and HP pot usage, do you still gain threat if you heal even though you're at full HP?
I've played other games where tanks have asked me to not keep them topped off because if the effective amount they heal is less, they generate less threat. I don't think it'd be an issue here either way, but I'm just curious.

You still gain threat when using a potion at full HP.

[Shouichirou]

Yes, threat is still gained even if healed (potion or healer) already at full hp.

Can be easily reproduced for testing by;
- Running by an aggro-mob (red name) with your threat gauge up (you should be at 1 threat)
- Using a potion (despite being fully healed)
- You should see your threat rate raise on the gauge proportional to the "potion-heal"*


Basically, once a potion is used, the threat is added regardless of full hp or not.

Tank self heals (BM heals, TR, AH) shouldn't generate threat (I can at least attest that is true regarding TR = [Tension Relax]).



*The effect increases if you have a "threat-generator" skill active (Aura Shield, Steel Body, Grizzly Form).

[Rennie246]

Interesting.
For the healing before aggro part though, using only Renovatio on you guys until you AoE seems to be fine.

And I read elsewhere around here that Beastmaster's heal doesn't generate any threat, whereas other tanks' heals do? Regarding that and HP pot usage, do you still gain threat if you heal even though you're at full HP?
I've played other games where tanks have asked me to not keep them topped off because if the effective amount they heal is less, they generate less threat. I don't think it'd be an issue here either way, but I'm just curious.

The thing about BM is that there Survival skill dosen't only heal themselves but it also heals all other party members by 10% of there Max HP and all that healing dosen't make any aggro, i can understand Cruel bite not getting aggro but the survival party heal seems weird.

[hongaun]

The thing about BM is that there Survival skill dosen't only heal themselves but it also heals all other party members by 10% of there Max HP and all that healing dosen't make any aggro, i can understand Cruel bite not getting aggro but the survival party heal seems weird.

In respect of this, Sorc's LOR does not generate extra threat for themselves too.

[Shouichirou]

The thing about BM is that there Survival skill dosen't only heal themselves but it also heals all other party members by 10% of there Max HP and all that healing dosen't make any aggro, i can understand Cruel bite not getting aggro but the survival party heal seems weird.

It's likely that the BM [Survival] is "counted" as a "DoT heal"*. Similar to how the warrior [Tension Relax], Knight [Aura Heal], and Sorceror [Land of Recovery] are also seen as a sort of "DoT heal" (In the sense that neither of those skills stack threat towards the "initial caster", but still "heal" the target/area). Threat may only be generated (in healing sense) corresponding to a "direct heal" variation. Such as potions, acolyte/priest heals, etc.



*I say "DoT heal" as a given name. The meaning behind it is something more like "after/extra effect" (not something that may be seen as "direct").

Edited by Shouichirou, 16 April 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[Ryouichi]

I know this is necro but I am going to add to this.

From iRO2 Threat Meter:

All action gain threat by 1 point.

Aggro gets you threat by 1 point.

1 damage = 1 point of threat.

1 heal = 1 point of threat.

DoT shows up on threat. Each DoT shows up as additional threat. (Tested with Head Crush, Oratio, and Wild Crush).

HoT gives 1 threat, does not give threat from follow up heals.

Skill such as Aura Defense, Grizzly Form, Stone Skin multiply threat by 3. So instead of gaining 1 threat per action, per damage, per heal, you gain 3.

Critical does double damage, thus damage = threat, so double the threat. This also include heal.

Some skill gives 1.5 times the threat such as Magnum Break. This is a multiplier that works on Aura Defense, Grizzly Form, and Stone skin.

Finally about taunts such as Intimidate, Beast Roar, and Provoke.

If you are planning to play a tank class.

NEVER USE TAUNT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FIGHT. THIS IS NOT YOUR NORMAL AGGRO SYSTEM. TAUNT IS USED FOR SPECIFIC SITUATIONS. NOT EVERYTIME WHEN THE COOL DOWN IS DONE!!!

What taunt does in iRO2 is 2 things. First, it brings your threat to the top of the list and 10% more. So if you taunt at the beginning of the battle. Consider you are a Knight with Aura Defense. 10% of 3 = 3. You just wasted your taunt!

Threat is mainly generated by damage and heals (potion included).

Next, the second thing taunt does is that it puts a specific icon on the boss.

THE ICON FORCES BOSS TO ATTACK YOU FOR ITS DURATION AND IF YOU ARE ON THE TOP OF THE THREAT LIST, IT WILL CONTINUE TO ATTACK YOU.

If you are not the top of the threat list, then it will go back to who ever out-threated you.

However, while the icon is on the boss, approximately 2-3 seconds, the boss will attack you, no matter what.

Thus, taunts is used when bosses randomly changes target. Almost every boss does this. The Pnemo in Izlude Cave for example will do this. It is the tank's job to save taunt and use it when the boss randomly switch target to get the boss to attack them again. Whoever the boss randomly attacks should continue doing what they do. Running around or stop doing anything will not reset this. Boss will attack you for a duration of time before switching back. However, as stated, a tank's taunt skill will immediately remedy this.

That is all.

Edited by Ryouichi, 29 April 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[synesthetic]

All action gain threat by 1 point.

Aggro gets you threat by 1 point.

HoT gives 1 threat, does not give threat from follow up heals.

Skill such as Aura Defense, Grizzly Form, Stone Skin multiply threat by 3. So instead of gaining 1 threat per action, per damage, per heal, you gain 3.

Interesting. That explains why I'm still alive if I only use Renovatio on tanks until they AoE, and why I'll sometimes pull a couple off of the tank when I use Aspersio or something. I probably used Renovatio a couple more times on people while the pulling was still going on, and Aspersio bumped my threat up to 4+ on the first mobs.

Thank you, this allows me to clarify why using only Renovatio during pulling works for Priest threat management.

[Lunabay]

I over-looked this thread... Thanks guys, for the information shared here. I don't play tanks, but it is good to know how they work. :3

[Alvana]

Note that sometimes the UI bug and even though the boss's target seems to have switched on a party member, the boss is still attacking you, if that happens just yell at the game to blow steam off and watch your incoming damage/threat table. It mostly happens after the boss cast a spell on a party member before switching back to you, linking up to:

Also note that sometimes bosses will temporarily switch target to cast a spell at them, a good example is when Adventurer Poring in Wolves Cave use his polymorph(whatever) ability. If that party member is too far and the boss can move (some can't), it will move to reach his target for the cast. Don't bother taunting, it won't have any effect; you're still first on aggro table.

Also low level DPS class (mainly swordsman) that can taunt in dungeon, don't do it. You're only pissing off the tank. I've seen a few DPS assigned class cast Provoke as part of their rotation, just w-t-f?

Edited by Alvana, 29 April 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[ExeltusPendragon]

Just to check, how does the threat meter work for fights with multiple enemies (like Vadon twins or any fight with a durable add thats alive for a bit)? I was under the impression that the meter only shows damage/threat done to your current target, making it inacurate for tracking actual total damage done in a fight.

[Lucentos]

BTW What about Taunt in the group PvP?

[Chibante]

ummm im new to this game..
Just a quick question, i saw that list of threat and the top one is monk
Is monk the best tank in this game?
there is knight, monk and beastmaster, these 3 can tank.
In the end i always thought knight is the top one.
Thank you for answering ;3

[ShadowKashim]

ummm im new to this game..
Just a quick question, i saw that list of threat and the top one is monk
Is monk the best tank in this game?
there is knight, monk and beastmaster, these 3 can tank.
In the end i always thought knight is the top one.
Thank you for answering ;3

I won't answer it directly but, I wanna explain some points somehow.
IMO, These game is more dependable on equips, so, lets say all those tanks has the same LVL 50 Blue equipments.

~Monk have the most Defense in~game, since it has a buff that gives 200% Defense Boost. Problems are,Monk has a low Dodge rate and Monks need to balance their stats on STR/INT/VIT.

~BeastMasters has the most HP in-game from their buff that gives 60% HP Boost. Problem is, that's their only usable buffs, when they do these their DMG as well as their defense suffers.

~Knights have a balance on both aspects, a decent Defense (from Shields) and a Decent HP since they can focus on old school 40/40 on STR/VIT.


*also, take note that Monks can generate higher threats than the others since they have an AoE skill that gives 50% more threat. and can be used again after 3secs.

And we also have another Tank, which is Warrior, the so-called "Jack all of trades". A decent dmg/Defense/HP/Dodge/Parry.

[KarilynKare]

Just to check, how does the threat meter work for fights with multiple enemies (like Vadon twins or any fight with a durable add thats alive for a bit)? I was under the impression that the meter only shows damage/threat done to your current target, making it inacurate for tracking actual total damage done in a fight.

This is correct. There is currently no practical way to calculate total damage done in a fight.

BTW What about Taunt in the group PvP?

This isn't Warhammer. Taunt doesn't affect other players.

ummm im new to this game..
Just a quick question, i saw that list of threat and the top one is monk
Is monk the best tank in this game?
there is knight, monk and beastmaster, these 3 can tank.
In the end i always thought knight is the top one.
Thank you for answering ;3

All 4 tanks can tank fine. Generally speaking this is my impression... (I haven't played all 4 tanks yet. Trust me, I WILL eventually have a tank of all four classes)

Monk:
Survivability great
Single target threat great
AOE threat terrible

Knight:
Survivability good
Single target threat good
AOE threat good
(Best support utility)

Undergeared Warrior:
Survivability okay
Single target threat good
AOE threat great

Geared Warrior
Survivability great
Single target threat good
AOE threat great
(Scales better with gear than other tanks)

Beastmasters
Survivability good
Single target threat good
AOE threat good

Generally speaking, all tanks are great for dungeons (but Monks are going to struggle the most due to crappy AOE for trash mobs).

As for raiding? Beastmasters are very average and not very popular because of it. Knights are always popular for raiding because of their support utility Shield Fortress which reduces damage by 25%(?) for 10 seconds across the entire raid on a 2 minute cooldown. At lower end raiding, Monks tend to be more popular due to having the highest relative survivability when undergeared. And at higher end raiding, Warriors tend to be more popular due to having the highest survivability of any tank at that point. But it's a bit fuzzy. Knight, Monks, and Warriors are pretty damn well balanced.

Beastmasters could probably use a few buffs to give them something unique relative to the other tanks.

Edited by KarilynKare, 30 April 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[Nirrado]

First off let me say thanks to Synesthetic for pointing me to this thread from another thread I made crying of my tank pains with not understanding threat. I've gained some very valuable information here.

Second, has anyone here played a Beastmaster tank during a raid yet(here, kRO, or SEA)? I'm curious as to exactly why they seem to be less desired than other tanks. It's the class I'm currently leveling and would love to do everything I can to make it work for my guild/party when we start raiding some. Was also curious if anyone knows from experience or maybe raiding with a BM offtank, is it better to go more of a damage focus with your skills(obviously still putting 5 in Grizzly) so you can sustain higher DPS when not tanking, or going full defense talents so that when/if you do offtank for X amount of time you have more cooldowns to blow? Curious since really all you get would be a couple cooldown for defensive use(or frenzy for dps i guess) that would be situational at best. Also more DPS = more threat I've learned from this.

Lastly, does anyone know if the healing from Cruel Bite causes any threat on your CURRENT target? I know it doesn't cause any AOE threat, but I've noticed using Cruel Bite in dungeons in the late 20s when it hit for not even 100 would sometimes net me 600-700 threat.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks to everybody who has contributed so far, it's REALLY appreciated!

[Helios0]

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