Undecided about class, is warrior a "tank or be useless" class? - Swordman - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Undecided about class, is warrior a "tank or be useless" class?


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Thaiku

Thaiku

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • LocationCanary Islands
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ragnarok Online 2

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:15 AM

I'm undecided about what class to play on launch. Warriors looks pretty cool with the giant sword and heavy armor.
Are they only good for tanking and useless on raid/instance as DPS?
How good are in colosseum?

Edited by Thaiku, 22 April 2013 - 06:15 AM.

  • 0

#2 Jargous

Jargous

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 319 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:41 AM

Warriors are the power tankers of the tanking role. Given that their skills greatly boost their own skills and even grant the ability to recover. In the DPS role, if you utilize every party buff, warriors are right up there in terms of threat late game. However, you must be willing to give up a good portion of your tanking role to be able to DPS well. Colosseum is a mixture, they are usually referred to as whirlwind warriors (just keep aoeing and moving away), but colosseum is usually left to sorcs and archers. To effectively win as a DPS warrior, you must know how to interrupt others chances at scoring at kill (which can be quite a task).

Any class can be good, but you must understand the risks that a class has to go through to be great.
  • 0

#3 Poptartsicle

Poptartsicle

    I am New.

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

Warriors are pretty good tanks for normal instances and hard modes due to their really good parry/dodge and their 2 tank cooldowns, but im pretty sure most people prefer knights for raids because they have an aoe party reduced dmg cooldown which helps soak alot of dmg in raids. I personally had both a warrior and a knight and found knight to be pretty boring and they cant move while aoeing, so you usually get stuck in an aoe and taking a bunch of dmg when you want to move out, whereas warrior can whirlwind around while aoeing and not have to worry about that.
  • 0

#4 Jargous

Jargous

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 319 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

But that is the one thing you cannot underestimate with a Knight, Shield Fortress is one of the most godly defense skills around. But Knight is more party oriented compared to Warrior. When you got big AoEs that your party can't run from, you can't look to a Warrior for help, that is why you call SHIELD FORTRESS.
  • 0

#5 RunOenomaus

RunOenomaus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 62 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

Don't forget, that while using Shield Fortress the Knight is rendered immobile, thus he can quickly lose aggro. That's when the Knight comes in to off-tank, and maintain aggro EVEN on adds, to due his repertoire of AoE.

Also, with top-tier gear, Warriors, through the help of Defender, can actually stand toe-to-toe if not best an equally geared Knight. Also, Grand Cross renders you immobile as well, when you it's in use. As opposed to Brandish Storm, which can be used while moving.

BMs and Monks are good off-tanks/tanks, but they'll never have the aggro potential of a Warrior when it comes to multiple adds.
  • 0

#6 Ahjussi

Ahjussi

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 44 posts
  • LocationFany's Lips
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:19 PM

Yep, when you get to end game, warriors are the "tank or be useless" class. xD

But really, as a melee dps class you are inferior to rogues and assassins the longer a battle is drawn..

As for colosseum, all melee classes are disadvantaged but it really comes down to how experienced the player is.
  • 0

#7 rollchan

rollchan

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 77 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:59 PM

Don't forget, that while using Shield Fortress the Knight is rendered immobile, thus he can quickly lose aggro. That's when the Knight comes in to off-tank, and maintain aggro EVEN on adds, to due his repertoire of AoE.

Also, with top-tier gear, Warriors, through the help of Defender, can actually stand toe-to-toe if not best an equally geared Knight. Also, Grand Cross renders you immobile as well, when you it's in use. As opposed to Brandish Storm, which can be used while moving.

BMs and Monks are good off-tanks/tanks, but they'll never have the aggro potential of a Warrior when it comes to multiple adds.

Warriors with top tier gear actually has better defensive stats(parry/dodge) than an equally-geared knights (CoA and up, I think knight still wins in raw defense rate though)
However, I don't get why beastmasters/monks make a good off-tanks (If any, they're better at main-tanking), they don't have skills to consistently draw aggro from mobs, IMO the only classes that can off-tank effectively are knight and warrior, in which warriors are better due to ability to move while using AoE and higher AoE skill damage modifier.
  • 0

#8 RunOenomaus

RunOenomaus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 62 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:12 AM

Difference between War and other melee DPS classes is, that Warrior has more than one use, and in my opinion is a must in dungeons. Off-tank with good aoe is detrimental just in-case your tank messes up. Warriors can take much more damage, and thus has more room for mistakes.

You have to remember that as a melee character, you have to have really good positioning, but sometimes other factors like lag and mechanical mistakes come into play that cause you to "not move out in time" or position yourself properly. I mean, don't get me wrong, Warriors do have less DPS than Thief classes etc. but they more than make up for it for their utility. Well that and their badassery. BAMF-Status, GG.
  • 0

#9 Jargous

Jargous

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 319 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:26 AM

Last I played in SEA, we had a warrior and a sin going at it with equal COA gears and accessories with the warrior completely demolishing the sin in threat rate. Lag was about equal as they were from the same region. You can say the build, but warriors can have pretty devastating DPS comparable to other melee classes if specced correctly.
  • 0

#10 rollchan

rollchan

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 77 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:57 AM

Last I played in SEA, we had a warrior and a sin going at it with equal COA gears and accessories with the warrior completely demolishing the sin in threat rate. Lag was about equal as they were from the same region. You can say the build, but warriors can have pretty devastating DPS comparable to other melee classes if specced correctly.

Did the warrior had aura armor buff on? It multiplies the amount of threat gained by 4x.
  • 0

#11 RoronoaLance

RoronoaLance

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 205 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Odin(iRO2)

Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:09 AM

Last I played in SEA, we had a warrior and a sin going at it with equal COA gears and accessories with the warrior completely demolishing the sin in threat rate. Lag was about equal as they were from the same region. You can say the build, but warriors can have pretty devastating DPS comparable to other melee classes if specced correctly.

you CAN'T out-dps a sin with a warrior, as sin have more agi&aspd and equal damage.

  • 0

#12 StryfeK

StryfeK

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 134 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:38 AM

I'm undecided about what class to play on launch. Warriors looks pretty cool with the giant sword and heavy armor.
Are they only good for tanking and useless on raid/instance as DPS?
How good are in colosseum?


During End-Game raids, their main uses is for Off Tanking / Main Tanking, or as a second-string melee, sturdier, melee DPS. "Only good for tanking" describes a lot of classes, including Knights, Monks and BMs, even though Monks have decent burst DPS and BMs have brown bear. Thats their role, and they should be sticking to it.

In colosseum, Ahjussi's correct in stating that all melee classes generally have a disdadvantage (With the exception of Assassin). Rogues and monks are better off than the rest, while Warriors, BMs and Knights struggle near the bottom. The one good thing about "Tank" classes is that they're seen as a time sponge, so they're ignored often. Unfortunately for warriors, they see you as the least tanky, and you don't have the same "ignore" luxury, even if you're a tank build.

But can they win in colosseum? Absolutely. I've won numerous times.

Don't forget, that while using Shield Fortress the Knight is rendered immobile, thus he can quickly lose aggro. That's when the Knight comes in to off-tank, and maintain aggro EVEN on adds, to due his repertoire of AoE.

Also, with top-tier gear, Warriors, through the help of Defender, can actually stand toe-to-toe if not best an equally geared Knight. Also, Grand Cross renders you immobile as well, when you it's in use. As opposed to Brandish Storm, which can be used while moving.

BMs and Monks are good off-tanks/tanks, but they'll never have the aggro potential of a Warrior when it comes to multiple adds.


Agree with all of the above, warriors make the best Off tank compared to all the other classes, but have the potential to be even better. This class in particular just takes -alot- longer to get there.

you CAN'T out-dps a sin with a warrior, as sin have more agi&aspd and equal damage.


Right, a warrior cannot out DPS Sins or Rogues. Threat =/= DPS. As rollchan mentioned, armor aura increases threat gained by a lot. Furthermore, potions are an easy way to generate threat. As an OT warrior, I constantly had to keep my threat up at 2nd, no less, no higher. This means higher than the DPS (Ranger,Sorc,Sins, etc.) but lower than the MT's.
  • 0

#13 Shouichirou

Shouichirou

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 141 posts
  • LocationProbably at work.
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Odin Ch.5/7/11 (RO2)

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

Did the warrior had aura armor buff on? It multiplies the amount of threat gained by 4x.


Think he was talking about my old SEA [Damage-Dealer-Warrior] (at the time).

Back then my [Damage-Warrior] didn't have aura shield (rather was using the maxed out aura blade) . . . and walking around with the 35~42% [Critical Rate] (depending on buffs present) with nearly 500 INT (battle manual'ed obviously).

You can probably imagine the kind of dps coming out of all those frequent crits . .

Although, I will admit I had a +8 COA Great-Sword going on, not sure about the upgrade the [Assassin] had on his COA weapon though

Don't get me wrong, in most cases an [Assassin] should overpower a [Warrior] in the "damage-gauge". But given the certain circumstance back then, it could have went either way.

Topic-wise, I'm going to tell you this now. If you plan to go for a full-dps battle tactic warrior. Brace yourself for all the random hardships you may face on your way up there. Getting into parties, trying to obtain gears, attempting to change the initial "thoughts" many may have on a dps-warrior are among the tip of the issues you may have to face.

As many have already stated. The potential is indeed there, but to get there will be much more time-consuming that "getting there" with any other class.


Edited by Shouichirou, 23 April 2013 - 04:56 PM.

  • 0

#14 RunOenomaus

RunOenomaus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 62 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

To finalize the case of Sin vs War DPS, Sins do have more DPS than Warriors. To those who need an explanation as to why, it's because if Wars had the same DPS as Assassins, everybody would be rolling them. Imagine an assassin that's dishing out tons of damage and extremely hard to kill or even burst down.
  • 0

#15 RoronoaLance

RoronoaLance

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 205 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Odin(iRO2)

Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:52 PM

Think he was talking about my old SEA [Damage-Dealer-Warrior] (at the time).

Back then my [Damage-Warrior] didn't have aura shield (rather was using the maxed out aura blade) . . . and walking around with the 35~42% [Critical Rate] (depending on buffs present) with nearly 500 INT (battle manual'ed obviously).

You can probably imagine the kind of dps coming out of all those frequent crits . .

Although, I will admit I had a +8 COA Great-Sword going on, not sure about the upgrade the [Assassin] had on his COA weapon though

Don't get me wrong, in most cases an [Assassin] should overpower a [Warrior] in the "damage-gauge". But given the certain circumstance back then, it could have went either way.

pic or didn't happen, sorry i can't believe that you can get 500 int while maintaining 35 % critical.
  • 0

#16 Shouichirou

Shouichirou

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 141 posts
  • LocationProbably at work.
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Odin Ch.5/7/11 (RO2)

Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

pic or didn't happen, sorry i can't believe that you can get 500 int while maintaining 35 % critical.


http://forums.warppo...rior-pve-guide/

Post #18 in this thread already lists that the basis is highly possible and by all means attainable. May not be that "500 INT" I speak of, but pretty close. I may have skimmed on my mentioning that the value of 500 INT was influenced by the 112 INT boost potion though. Here is the quote ripped directly from then.


For INT
- 3x INT on the stat build
- 55 INT from 5x [Solomian La Christ]
- 128 INT from PVP Accessory set (INT/AGI)
- 27 INT from the title
- 22 INT from INT buff potion (30 minutess)
- 112 INT from INT boost potion (situation-al 30 seconds)
- 10% INT on top of all that from [Dragonology]

*INT stands around ~290 usually, the [INT Boost of 112] is the main ingredient that would pump it to the overkill of ~415 [112 + (112*0.1) = +123 INT]. The "boost" would usually be saved for the beginning of a battle in order to stack up a decent threat gauge to prevent the party/raids fear of taking early aggro. Or in the rare case of the emergency, "this boss has to die right now!" type of thing.
In all honestly, even the defaulted 50~100 INT people gain at Lv50 from title/cards (without much effort) should be enough for most people to "notice" the drastic difference in attacks.






For AGI
- 3x AGI on the stat build
- 70 AGI from 5x [Solomian La Christ]
- 3x AGI from PVP Accessory set (INT/AGI)
- 27 AGI from the title
- No potion (mostly using INT buff/boost)
- 50~70 AGI from CoA gears
- ~80 AGI from runes (mostly +8~9)
- 10% AGI on top of all that from ranger AGI buff

- 2% Crit rate (addition) from [Mark of Genocide]
- 5% Crit rate (addition) from [Pump Pill]
- 5% Crit rate (multiplier) on top of all that, from COA set bonus (x5)


*AGI usually sits around ~300 with the AGI buff (many people have been seen to surpass this). The brunt of the "extra critical rate" comes from the "direct" critical applications. Such as [Pump It Up Hard Pills], [COA/AOD set bonuses], [Mark of Genocide], [Demian Summoning], and the [Shadow Claw Scroll].





Despite stacking mostly on INT/AGI, the purpose is to make a "swordsman" that "uses" [Battle Tactics] as a way to maintain a towering aggro-rate (making it difficult for dps or off-tanks to take over the rage-gauge, so that they could feel safe to go all out, etc).

Basically not going to divulge a stat build exactly, but it may possibly be an lol-2x-3x-3x-2x type of build. Looking at the possibilities, one can ditch the option to focus on VIT/STR runes and "go for broke" by grabbing ONLY AGI runes. And from my personal opinion, I'd say one might not regret a single thing. Rune possibilities could be;

- [~160 more attack power]. If I chose to stack STR runes.
- [600 more hp]. If I chose to stack VIT runes.
- [7~8% more Critical Rate]. If I chose to stack AGI runes.

Clearly I have chosen the third option . . especially if it allowed one to hit the 35~40% [Critical Range]. Making "critical hits" appear more oftenly while taking full advantage of the huge INT pool one can have at their disposal.

Trading "power" or "hp" for a more consistent "burst" (despite warriors/knights not really being known for their burst), was a pleasant "shock" towards people who usually saw what was going on.


*Alternatively, a swordsman could also ditch the [INT buff/boost] potions and go with the AGI-variations (making it possible to hit the low 40-percentile range of consistent "critical hits"). Its possible to even the low 50-percentile [Critical Rate] through the use of the AGI boost potion (though the effect is only a temporary 30 seconds every 5 minutes).*



As for grabbing that screenshot, I'm afraid that is a currently a "no-can-do". Mostly for the reasons that I have completely uninstalled the other versions of Ro2, seeing as how a localized port has come over for NA.

Basically in short. You have the the brunt of the runes specialized in AGI, whilst the potions/accessories focused more-so on the INT aspect. Stat/Card/Title were selected to suit both cases. The inclusion of "Pump it up Hard", "Demain Summon" and "Critical Set bonus" played thier obvious roles.

Edited by Shouichirou, 24 April 2013 - 11:12 PM.

  • 0

#17 RoronoaLance

RoronoaLance

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 205 posts
  • Playing:Nothing
  • Server:Odin(iRO2)

Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:31 PM

http://forums.warppo...rior-pve-guide/

Post #18 in this thread already lists that the basis is highly possible and by all means attainable. May not be that "500 INT" I speak of, but pretty close. I may have skimmed on my mentioning that the value of 500 INT was influenced by the 112 INT boost potion though. Here is the quote ripped directly from then.


[/color]

As for grabbing that screenshot, I'm afraid that is a currently a "no-can-do". Mostly for the reasons that I have completely uninstalled the other versions of Ro2, seeing as how a localized port has come over for NA.

Basically in short. You have the the brunt of the runes specialized in AGI, whilst the potions/accessories focused more-so on the INT aspect. Stat/Card/Title were selected to suit both cases. The inclusion of "Pump it up Hard", "Demain Summon" and "Critical Set bonus" played thier obvious roles.

well then it's my bad then, im sorry. i thought that even u do that calculation, you sacrifice some damage to pump up your int, while if the assassin do specialize on str and agi, they will getting more dps since they have better cycle. while you have damage 3k they already have 4k damage because you sacrifice some into the int stat.
  • 0

#18 Shouichirou

Shouichirou

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 141 posts
  • LocationProbably at work.
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Odin Ch.5/7/11 (RO2)

Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

That is the downside to building a dps warrior. You are essentially sacrificing your ability to "take damage" for more damage output.
The same principle applied to the INT/AGi focus-er, they would have sacrifice and forego the option to amass STR runes for the other runes such as AGI or possibly even INT.

As the saying goes, "You will have to undergo a notable risk in order to start seeing a gain" (in most cases at least).
  • 0

#19 SonicTMP

SonicTMP

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 346 posts
  • LocationAlone in the dishwasher
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:56 PM

well then it's my bad then, im sorry. i thought that even u do that calculation, you sacrifice some damage to pump up your int, while if the assassin do specialize on str and agi, they will getting more dps since they have better cycle. while you have damage 3k they already have 4k damage because you sacrifice some into the int stat.


You do realize what the purpose of getting Int for a knight/warrior is right? The battle Manual skill gives them 0.4% more crit damage for every point of int. With the 290-415 int values given that is 116%-166% extra critial damage. That's how they catch up in dps even though they have a lower base.
  • 0

#20 BrettUltimus

BrettUltimus

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:58 AM

From everything I've been reading, Warrior has great dps potential as a DPS Warrior, but also makes a decent off tank. Probably very versatile as a hybrid class, if you wanted to do some solo leveling/raiding.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users