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Suffragium discussion.


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#1 synesthetic

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:14 PM

I really want to give Suffragium a chance in my build because, like Terr, I'm used to doing whatever I can to speed up my heals in games. But I'm just not seeing the justification for it here, given there's about one second of casting animation/delay that you can't reduce.

I timed how long it takes to get 10 Heals out (starting from when I press the hotkey the first time, and ending once the 10th casting bar is finished--throwing out any trials where Gloria interrupted) both with and without Suffragium on one of my priests in seaRO2.

Without Suff (8% Haste Rate):
26.2 sec
26.0 sec
26.1 sec

With Suff (18% Haste Rate):
25.4 sec
25.2 sec
25.1 sec

And to get an idea of latency I get between seaRO2 and iRO2,
Without Suff (8% Haste Rate):
20.5 sec
20.7 sec
20.5 sec


So I think it's pretty clear that, yes, Suff does shave off one second when casting Heal 10 times. And no, it doesn't let you fit 1 more Heal every 10 casts like how some people have tried to argue. It's closer to every 20 casts or more, due to animation/delay and latency.


Is there a point when it -is- clearly worth it though?
You could get 30% Haste Rate from wearing a complete set of crafted Hell's Valkyrie armor and weapon (if the recipes to all of them actually dropped). With Suff then, you could fit maybe 24 Heals in the time it takes someone else to do 20. So close to 6 Heals vs. someone else's 5.


Thoughts?
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#2 Ahjussi

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:46 PM

I love Suffragium~! :rice:

I play a hybrid priest myself with 26% haste so it helps with Holy Light and Genesis Ray aswell..
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#3 Alleggretto

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

Is it worth it? :v I seen both guides.
1/5
or max? D: Still confused on what to do.
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#4 ExeltusPendragon

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

Is it worth it? :v I seen both guides.
1/5
or max? D: Still confused on what to do.


i personally don't think so, because at the end of the day as fs, or even as hybrid, the number of skills that haste affects is negligible. as fs it only boosts heal by 0.1s per cast, as hybrid or dps it only drops holy light and ado by 0.1s and rog by 0.2. the points spend on suff could be better spent on anything else, unless you're /that/ obsessive a minmaxer. even then i'd argue other utility/skills would give you stronger overall throughput.
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#5 Menardy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

My priest wont get it, because I don't spend 4 skillpoints for a skill when just >one< skill profits by it.
especially because imo there are not enough skillpoints to get every skill I want xD
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#6 RevLoveJoy

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

I personally don't like Suffragium. I'd rather go Hybrid and have 6 lvl 1 (til Adoramus) offensive skills than lvl 5 Suff.

If it were to give out Vigor however...
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#7 flashfactor7

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

I won't be going past 1 either. I personally don't use heal right now as it is.

I'm fully Highness Heal and Renovatio.
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#8 Justcalv

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:50 PM

Quoted directly from the SEARO2 Forum found here: http://forums.playpa...t-priest-guide/

There are also many other very useful information regarding priest (be it hybrid or Full support)
Things of particular interest may be the heal table, effects of mediatatio, DPS comparision between Priest and Sorc etc...

Regarding whether to max Sacrament or Suffragium if given the choice of only one, i will personally tend towards Suffragium
Next, regarding whether it is better to take 1 point off Suffragium to add into ArcAngel or Sacrament, i believe that it is yet another matter of preference and play-style.
Personally, I will prefer lv 5 suffragium over an addtional point in either Arcangel or Sacrament.

In other words, suffragium is imo way more important than any of the 2 skills.
The reasons being:


Firstly, from a logical/gaming perspective, the haste effect from suffragium is VERY noticeable. In most dire situation, this split sec difference in cast time will more often than not save the tank or another team member.
Although its effect theoretically only affects those skill with cast time (Heal in the case of a full support build), in actuality it WILL also affect how well/effective you can react with your other instant cast skills such as Highness heal, Coluseo Heal etc
Take for example a common situation where you are BUSY healing the tank when suddenly your fellow raid member got hit heavily by adds or the boss aoe skill. That team member will be on the verge of dieing while you are still in the midst of casting heal on the tank...
With suffragium, you will COMPLETE the casting of your Heal skill faster (even if its a split second, it is nonetheless faster) and can immediately proceed to save that fellow members using either Assumptio, Coluseo Heal or wdev u deem is appropriate based on the situation.

-->Long story short...This split second advantage in cast time will help you save that raid member.

Secondly, even from the mathematical model perspective, Suffragium will still prove to be much more superior than any increment in ArcAngel or Sacrament.
Using the same basic assumptions as before, i will attempt to measure the heal efficiency per second using Heal lv 5 as the measurement standard.

Option 1: Lv 5 Sac, Lv 5 AA, Lv 4 Suff
Option 2: Lv 4 Sac, Lv 5 AA, Lv 5 Suff
Option 3: Lv 5 Sac, Lv 4 AA, Lv 5 Suff

Assuming no haste benefits from blue equips for all cases.

Control case: Lv 0 Suff: 1 Heal will take 1 sec to cast
--> Heal efficiency under option 1 (excluding the lv 4 suff) will be M*1.1*1.25*0.43 = 0.5913M
--> Heal efficiency under option 2 (excluding the lv 5 suff) will be = 0.5805M
--> Heal efficiency under option 3 (excluding the lv 5 suff) will be = 0.5676M

Option 1: Lv 4 Suff: 1 Heal will take 0.92 sec to cast
--> Heal efficiency under option 1 will be = 0.5913M / 0.92 = 0.6427M per sec

Option 2 & 3: Lv 5 Suff: 1 Heal will take 0.9 sec to cast
--> Heal efficiency under option 2 will be = 0.5805M / 0.90 = 0.6450M per sec
--> Heal efficiency under option 3 will be = 0.5676M / 0.90 = 0.6307M per sec

As seen from the results: Option 2 has the highest Heal amount per sec, followed by option 1 and option 3.
The differences between them isn't very significant but in conjunction with my first point, i believe that having a max lv Suff will still prove to be much more effective.

Note that i did not bother to use the weighted approach (as illustrated in the previous post) in comparing these skills as the difference is using such an approach is rather insignificant.
I also personally believe that this incredibly small difference is and can be easily compensated or refuted by the removal of the key assumptions in the model.

Note: As said earlier, this mathematical model is devised under a very simplistic model whereby one heal non-stop on a single target, CD of AA is used immediately etc which imo is not truly reflective of the real settings. It is however still a good ballpark estimate in comparing the effectiveness of the various skills and is nonetheless useful.


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#9 frostsense

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:04 PM

Honestly, my viewpoint is the same for any skill that only increases Haste Rate by 10%; it's incredibly garbage. It's not notable, and hardly makes an impact in the long run. It needs to provide some other benefit rather than a Haste Rate increase.
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#10 Jargous

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:56 PM

If getting Lv 5 Suffragium comes at the cost of Lv 3 Gloria, definitely not worth it.
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#11 Ryogure

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:16 AM

The problem is, you don't really caste consecutive heals, ever. You will be switching members, casting Aspersio, moving, I don't think you will see any benefit in the long run from it when those SP can be used on something else.
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#12 Exvee

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:39 AM

I miss my RO1's suff and sacrament when we talking about cast in RO2. Cast time reduction is useless in this game, not to mention they remove dex too...

The problem is, you don't really caste consecutive heals, ever. You will be switching members, casting Aspersio, moving, I don't think you will see any benefit in the long run from it when those SP can be used on something else.


Also if you pick sanctuary you even just cast heal because nothing else to do...

Edited by Exvee, 08 May 2013 - 04:42 AM.

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#13 pollenpetal

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

I believe Suff is very useful. Even if you reach lvl 50, getting good equips with haste. It can decrease your casting time real good.
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#14 NiaAdha

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

i love this one. in case you haven't notice, it increase10% to not only haste, but parry and vigor as well. :3
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#15 Chocs

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:41 PM

^DOES IT--

Those sort of bonuses for a 30min buff would be awesome..
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#16 synesthetic

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

i love this one. in case you haven't notice, it increase10% to not only haste, but parry and vigor as well. :3

It.. doesn't. It's just Haste Rate.
If it gave 10% Vigor Rate, I'd want it bad.
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#17 VachV

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:32 PM

The problem is, you don't really caste consecutive heals, ever. You will be switching members, casting Aspersio, moving, I don't think you will see any benefit in the long run from it when those SP can be used on something else.


^^ above summarizes everything I have to say XD
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#18 KaguNyan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:42 PM

it is garbage. i have it at lvl 4 and i dont see any reduced cast time takes just as long to cast heal with the buff than without the buff. future healers dont wast ur time. i could have used those points i wasted in something else useful.
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#19 AlphaHealer

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:59 PM

yes i totally agreed with other commentators, Suffragium is not Worth it to spend skill points, i rather Max out Gloria for 15% chance no Cast for HolyLight and Heal Skills .
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#20 Jargous

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:02 AM

Suffragium is only useful if your attacks mostly consist of Holy Light, ME, Ray of Genesis and Adoramus in which usually, it's Holy Light and Adoramus most of the time.
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#21 AlphaHealer

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:14 AM

in healing you crit to enhance healing capabilities . i think suff is waste of skill points again . for my own virtue .

u can use aspersio in no cast genisis ray. in collo aspersio + genisis ray = dead
no need suff in collo . if ur really pro compare suffragium to gloria and tell me what skill important and nicer skill
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#22 baxie

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:53 AM

Well my thoughts on this... once you pass the 1k constant heals and 3k crits  and 500 reno marks.. its pretty easy to heal 10k/11k hp tanks.. now if you get that in the endgame raids you gonna need speedy heals  that is what is going to save people so as a hybrid priest more focused on healing ill be dropping my lvl 5 heal for a lvl 5 suff.. ill you all know how this turns out


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#23 Lyrinn

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:20 AM

If we got a level cap raise and more skill points to spend, I wouldn't mind putting points into it but there are too many better alternatives.


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#24 oen13

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

A total waste of skill points unless you love to spam HL or Heal, but you have other skills to use...


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