30 replies to this topic

[GuardianTK]

I'm trying to make a pseudo crit-Sin(And when I get there a crit SinX) that has 90+ base str/agi that makes use of x2 Rogue's Treasure. What equips would you guys suggest for it? General weapons for like pvm and pvp/WoE. For now, I need an idea on what I may need as a weapon for my Sin, not future SinX.

Sin stats:
str - 94+6
agi - 90+10
dex - 46+8

Edited by GuardianTK, 16 August 2010 - 09:36 AM.

[DrAzzy]

The rogues treasure bonuses can only apply to a character once, just like any other conditional bonus (aka set bonus).
That is, since it's only effects are set effects, wearing two of them is the same as wearing one. You're supposed to wear a cold heart or black cat (as appropriate for your class) on the off hand, though a BG or KVM badge or BSB would all likely give better results in most situations.

I also don't see how that build is crit. Not that that's a bad thing, since critting in RO is a gimped mechanic in general, but that looks like a standard SAD build, albeit with more agi than i'd normally use, more dex than you need, and no vit.

[GuardianTK]

The rogues treasure bonuses can only apply to a character once, just like any other conditional bonus (aka set bonus).
That is, since it's only effects are set effects, wearing two of them is the same as wearing one. You're supposed to wear a cold heart or black cat (as appropriate for your class) on the off hand, though a BG or KVM badge or BSB would all likely give better results in most situations.

I also don't see how that build is crit. Not that that's a bad thing, since critting in RO is a gimped mechanic in general, but that looks like a standard SAD build, albeit with more agi than i'd normally use, more dex than you need, and no vit.

It only applies once? D: I'll have to see if I can adjust the build then. The crits were more of a bonus thing anyways. Originally I was aiming for the SAD build. No point doing full-out crit Sin.

Thanks again, Azzy.

Edited by GuardianTK, 30 July 2010 - 04:56 PM.

[Nombus]

Are you certain about that Azzy? I've seen quite a few people wearing two and never just one, it's hard to believe they're doing it without reason. Further, while set bonus' usually cannot apply twice, these stats are natural to the item so long as the stat requirement is met (not like the ninja suit that requires a shinobi sash for its affects to come into affect and cannot be done twice). I see no reason why they cannot apply twice so long as that requirement is met.

In short, confirmation please.

[ichigank]

abrasives.

[Nitro]

I just double checked this. I can absolutely tell you that you will get the crit bonus twice if you have high AGI and 2 rogue treasure accessories..

Edited by Nitro, 31 July 2010 - 08:24 AM.

[GuardianTK]

I just double checked this. I can absolutely tell you that you will get the crit bonus twice if you have high AGI and 2 rogue treasure accessories..

Are you serious? O_O? Screenshots with dmg test plox?

[Nitro]

I have 90+ AGI but my STR is not, so I hope I am not misunderstanding something here. I took both Rogue Treasure off and lost +20 Attack and +20 Crit. I equip them both back one at a time, gaining +10 ATK and +10 crit for each I placed on.

[GuardianTK]

I'll have to test this out once I get my Sin 90 agi.

[DrAzzy]

I just double checked this. I can absolutely tell you that you will get the crit bonus twice if you have high AGI and 2 rogue treasure accessories..

Interesting. This is... unexpected.

[EvilLoynis]

I have 90+ AGI but my STR is not, so I hope I am not misunderstanding something here. I took both Rogue Treasure off and lost +20 Attack and +20 Crit. I equip them both back one at a time, gaining +10 ATK and +10 crit for each I placed on.

Does the Bonus for having 90 Str apply twice as well? the extra Flee would be nice.

[jax5]

Does the Bonus for having 90 Str apply twice as well? the extra Flee would be nice.

Yes.

[Myzery]

All effects of the Rogue's treasures stack, it's always been like that.
I can provide screenshots if needed, but I was using them on a character with 20 dex to be able to hit monsters easily and I also got the flee too.

[GuardianTK]

All I can say is....this is exciting. A semi-crit Sin that can hit hard with decent flee.

[DrAzzy]

Does the rogues treasure bonus offset the loss of BSB? Or even a +5% damage accessory?

[GuardianTK]

Does the rogues treasure bonus offset the loss of BSB? Or even a +5% damage accessory?

That would have to be tested...Though each Rogue's Treasure is +10 atk, whereas the MoH's are +5% each. The point behind the RT's is that I can perform crits pretty decently and still be able to wear armor that isn't restricted to the Morri set. I'd have to accessory switch a lot if I wanted to try SBing someone for more dmg.

[DrAzzy]

That would have to be tested...Though each Rogue's Treasure is +10 atk, whereas the MoH's are +5% each. The point behind the RT's is that I can perform crits pretty decently and still be able to wear armor that isn't restricted to the Morri set. I'd have to accessory switch a lot if I wanted to try SBing someone for more dmg.

Before planning a build around the rogues treasures, i would suggest that you perform those tests in the wushang calc.

I have a feeling you will be disappointed in the overall DPS with the rogues treasures.

Why, exactly, do you _want_ to crit, at all? It doens't work with double attack, so you either put up with half of your crit rate being wasted, or losing 1/3rd of your non-crit damage (while replacing it with whatever meagre amount of damage you can get out of a different hat). Neither of these look particularly appealing.

[GuardianTK]

Before planning a build around the rogues treasures, i would suggest that you perform those tests in the wushang calc.

I have a feeling you will be disappointed in the overall DPS with the rogues treasures.

Why, exactly, do you _want_ to crit, at all? It doens't work with double attack, so you either put up with half of your crit rate being wasted, or losing 1/3rd of your non-crit damage (while replacing it with whatever meagre amount of damage you can get out of a different hat). Neither of these look particularly appealing.

Consider it a flashy novelty build then. xD I called it a "pseudo-crit" build for a reason lol!

[GuardianTK]

Okay. So after getting my Sin to lvl70, I tried out the Rogue's Treasures. Indeed, it is 42% crit rate with 1 luk on x2 RT's. Doesn't Abrasives give like +30 crit? That'd be 100% crit, right? /slur Imagine if I were a SinX with that. I can wear some nice armors in place of the Morri set.

[DrAzzy]

Yeah, abrasive does give +30 crit. It's expensive to keep up though.

And viewed as a novelty build, it's a fine novelty build :-P Better than a standard crit sin, to be sure.

[GuardianTK]

Yeah, abrasive does give +30 crit. It's expensive to keep up though.

And viewed as a novelty build, it's a fine novelty build :-P Better than a standard crit sin, to be sure.

So far the DPS seems way higher than the standard crit Sins that I've seen. Might come in handy if I want to make a crit SinX. Too bad renewal is coming soon though. Emp breaker builds aren't going to be as useful.

[MrBudd]

My RO wife has a similar build and uses two Rogues Treasures (it was my wedding gift to her). It's a pretty bad ass build don't know why people think it's novelty build, it's far better than a full on crit sin IMO.

[DrAzzy]

It's a pretty bad ass build don't know why people think it's novelty build, it's far better than a full on crit sin IMO.

Well, yes, it's better than a standard crit sin - it's hard to be worse than a crit sin, as far as builds go.
I am pretty sure than a standard SAD dagger build would outperform it though...

It's a pretty bad assassin build

I don't mean this, but it struck me when reading it because of the space between bad and ass.

[Tomberry]

Yeah I use two rogues treasures and they work a treat, basically removes the need of heaps of base luck and any crit cards in weapons, while giving alot of equip versatility.

And TBH Crit SinX's are great, Im 76ish and I can do pretty much any monster with no worries, before when I was SD or DD I always had issues with getting the flee and hit to kill them effectively, Im still at 1 base luck with like 60% crit rate unbuffed and very little gears. Even with just two rogues treasures and a crit weapon it is a very good leveling method for lower levels, and if you stick with it you can get quite good results, for example at base 86 after finishing goats turnin I can go to AL and kill gold acidus in ~7 seconds without EDP and just basic buffs and Cursed Waters. Add in that their damage is constant, unlike say SB where your opponent can pot up afterwards constant crits of 8k on MvP's with EDP means if youre doing 2k a swing your DPS is better than the average EDP SB anyhow, while not being quite so squishy as they have to concentrate on potting, not using skills to drop you.

[DrAzzy]

I can go to AL and kill gold acidus in ~7 seconds without EDP and just basic buffs and Cursed Waters. Yes, but can you tank them? Were you in AL during the event? Did you see how well crit sinx's did there? They were useless, and got killed easilly Add in that their damage is constant, you mean, unlexable? Constant damage is bad, because you can't 1-shot and you can't lex it unlike say SB where your opponent can pot up afterwards In practice in a PVP/WoE situation, most players will be able to outpot that - with SB, you can 1-shot some players, and 1-shot a fair number of others by hitting them when you know they're not at full hp constant crits of 8k on MvP's with EDP means if youre doing 2k a swing your DPS is better than the average EDP SB anyhow DPS of crit sinx can potentially be better than that of unlinked SB, but linked SB will give higher DPS by a large margin , while not being quite so squishy as they have to concentrate on potting, not using skills to drop you.

Comments in bold. Crit sinx is a novelty/old-paradigm pvm build, no matter how you approach it - please do not advertise it as being a credible build in areas of the game that it is not. While you may like playing it, it is not fair to new players to present it as an effective character in pvp, mvp, or new-paradigm pvm like AL. Also, as an aside, AL kinda sucks outside of an event. It's hard enough that you need trans skills to go there, but no trans chars want to go there because the exp isn't that good and the job exp is horrible.