47 replies to this topic

[sephiroso]

Ok, i went back 3 pages and saw no one has actually posted this here in bug reports, the whole community has been in a buzz about this and we've gotten no word from CMs at all but i figure i'll give them the benefit of the doubt because no one actually went and posted in bug report.

The bug(or what needs to be fixed): Currently when you're in a party in dungeons, Beastmaster and Monks drop a VAST majority of the time. Beastmaster drops more than Monk, but put those 2 classes together and in runs with a set up of Knight, Sorc, Priest, Rogue, Ranger you will literally see 40-60% of the gear on average go to Beastmaster or Monk. If you switch up the setup to have Knight, Beastmaster, Priest, Sorc, Rogue because there is a Beastmaster in the party, the insane drop rate for Beastmaster gear you saw in the previous party completely goes away and other classes start getting their drops, like Priest, sorc, knight etc.

I've done enough RHDs to know that no, it is NOT just a bad few runs due to RNG, couple with the fact that that's a stupid amount of people complaining about BM/Monk drops. Everytime i get in a random dungeon, doesnt matter if its normal or hard and BM drops, almost everyone immediately will say something to the effect of "UGH NOT AGAIN!!" clearly everyone recognizes that there is a clear issue. We just need you GMs/CMs or w/e to recognize it so you can see what can be done about it.

I'd like to see you guys state to us whether this is intended or not. If its intended, thats pretty -_-ty. I can understand your reasons, to stagger progression by making the game drop gear for classes that AREN'T in the current party set up, but even if that were the case, as long as you have a Beastmaster in your party, the gear drops will look alot more balanced(drops will start dropping for ones in your party) and same for monk. So something is still messed up.

To reiterate, the bug is the following: If you do not have a Beastmaster or Monk in the party, on average 40-60% of the gear drops will be for BM/Monk. That's clearly broken.

As for possible fixes. I would suggest combining gear like it was pre-25. pre-25 all gear encompassed All 3 classes, Acolyte, Priest, Monk for example. A dps Knight and a dps Warrior would be having the same stats on their armor. So there is no reason not to have them combined. The only reason to have split them so that its each individual class is to stagger gear progression. But when you have so many classes, and you make every single thing be class dependant, it just staggers gear progression to insane levels. Look at WoW for instance, the only gear that is class dependant is the raid gear(and pvp gear). Everything else, from craftables to boe blues/epics can be worn by anyone.

I don't realistically see this change happening. Because there's alot that would have to be changed from every single loot drop, to crafting items, to quest rewards. But this is like an obvious solution that should have been the case from the start of development. You guys had it right pre-25...so clearly you were on the right track. But its about the only thing i can see that can be done for the main problem, which is the loot exclusivity. You guys can and MOST DEFINITELY SHOULD adjust or look at the loot tables drop rates because its clearly in high favor for Beastmaster/Monk or maybe look at the algorithm and tweak it a bit because you can see clear effect on the drops you get depending on your party setup which should not be the case.

That's about all i have though, please for the community post in this thread so this gets more traction and hopefully we can get this issue resolved. And please G/CMs actually respond to this because this is one of the most frustrating issues in the game for me and i'm sure the vast majority of the playerbase.

[MigueloerX]

We really need more voices on this topic, there are already other two threads about this (one by me) on community chat, and by what has been gathered i can say this problem is totally real and loot is completely dependant on your party setup and not a product of our RNG riddled imaginations.

I play as a fs priest, so far my parties consist moslty of priest, sorc, knight or warrior, rogue and wiz or sin, im still using gear from abandoned lab (where we switched tank for a monk by the way) and im all the way up to lvl 48 now. And no its not that im not running instances enough, we probably did HDP a fair 15-20 times and nothing dropped but beastmaster and monk stuff and the ocasional weapon for classes not in our party. Another instance of this is field bosses, yesterday me and my party did wandering wolf more times we could keep count of and i ended up with 10 beastmaster spears and other party members had 10 bows for rangers, needless to say there were no beastmasters or rangers present and it was pretty sad. We tried disbanding and regrouping to see if it changed drops and guess what? it did, we started getting quivers like that wolf had devoured a whole village of tiny archer people.

If anyone is gonna say were just theory crafting here and drops are totally random, please post a source on your claims. This is a big problem for some of us and we need an explanation even if there is nothing we can do about it.

[5489130505100655753]

I was in a party with my Beastmaster friend as leader in Sea God Temple and we STILL got a lot of BM drops, or drops for classes that specifically were NOT in our party. For example, after 10+ runs on my rogue, we only found Assassin equips, oftentimes entire sets in one run, or just BM and Monk drops. Similarly, when i joined the same party on my sorcerer we stopped getting sorcerer equips and only found wizard items.

The loot tables are definitely broken ugh.

[BerLeo]

I thought it worth mentioning that without a knight in the party (we usually do rogue, rogue, war, rng because I'm not going to make my friends choose a class I want them to)
They also seem to be throwing knight drops in our faces, which is quite frustrating when we have a warrior in the party and have to hover over an equip because it looks like its for him, only to find out its not and its more than likely the same (expletive) thing as the last time we did the dungeon/MVP.
I read on one of the other threads that a temporary fix seems to be to disband and reform the party... until it starts happening again, then rinse and repeat. But I haven't tested that.

[sephiroso]

I thought it worth mentioning that without a knight in the party (we usually do rogue, rogue, war, rng because I'm not going to make my friends choose a class I want them to)
They also seem to be throwing knight drops in our faces, which is quite frustrating when we have a warrior in the party and have to hover over an equip because it looks like its for him, only to find out its not and its more than likely the same (expletive) thing as the last time we did the dungeon/MVP.
I read on one of the other threads that a temporary fix seems to be to disband and reform the party... until it starts happening again, then rinse and repeat. But I haven't tested that.

That doesn't seem to work for me since my RHDs already disbands group after each run and reform for quick exit out of dungeon to requeue.

[ODKN]

There is no bug with drops. I *still* don't have my RHD Defense pants after 100 runs. The game will always drops what it wants to, within the given parameters of the loot tables.

This is what we call RNG, Children.

Edited by ODKN, 27 May 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Ruka87]

Yeah why not: the only dungeon who give me the entire set in like 2-3 runs was Wolf's Cave, now i'm lv 42 Priest and i'm stuck with some lv 30 pieces because Abandoned Lab\Hell of deadly poison drops only BM\Monk\Knight gear ALWAYS.

PS: tested over 20+ runs in normal.

Edited by Ruka87, 27 May 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[sephiroso]

There is no bug with drops. I *still* don't have my RHD Defense pants after 100 runs. The game will always drops what it wants to, within the given parameters of the loot tables.

This is what we call RNG, Children.

This is not RNG, the loot tables are clearly . Go be retarded in some other thread.

[Coulrophobia]

There is no bug with drops. I *still* don't have my RHD Defense pants after 100 runs. The game will always drops what it wants to, within the given parameters of the loot tables.

This is what we call RNG, Children.

Aren't you the same person who was telling everyone there was no problem with drops after the colo update?

There is an obvious bias towards Monk/Beastmaster drops in every dungeon I've run. Do you even know how RNG works from a programming standpoint? There is no master "This is THE random number generating algorithm" that every programmer uses. They are made up by individuals/groups on a case by case basis and often require tweaking in order to become more "random," though nothing in mathematics is ever truly "random." In fact, ANY computational method to generate "random" numbers is technically called a "psuedorandom number generator" or, more precisely, a "deterministic random bit generator."

It takes a great deal of effort, testing and tweaking to create an algorithm that will not produce repeatable results in 10,000 runs. and I honestly doubt that Gravity spent the time and resources necessary to produce such a product. It is highly likely that they are using one of the many cookie-cutter PRNG algorithms available in programming libraries and using it to reference the loot table, which could easily be producing repeatable results considering the number of dungeon drops being queried every minute on the server.

Edited by Coulrophobia, 27 May 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Varunax]

Haha, I thought I was the only one noticing all the BM/Monk drops. I do know that one of the boss monsters in Payon always drops a Monk Knuckle which is weird.

[MigueloerX]

There is no bug with drops. I *still* don't have my RHD Defense pants after 100 runs. The game will always drops what it wants to, within the given parameters of the loot tables.

This is what we call RNG, Children.

Calling others children with no proof or source on your arguments? Come on, if calling other people children to feel superior wasnt bad enough you just went full derp mode.

This is something the whole server has experienced, of course the game drops what it wants, the problem is beastmaster/monk/knight gear seems to be way more common that other classes and that is unfair, now hush or contribute something useful.

Also, today i ran for the first time the fortress of sandstorm and needless to say i was a totally undergeared priest, it was a disaster but at least we finisished it (only to get beastmaster gear from all bosses though).

[Justacio]

I don't know if the game really works like what I am about to tell you or not, but from experience, there is a higher chance for your class item to drop if you are the one who last hits the boss and if the boss doesn't die from a DoT. Again, this is just my own observation/assumption and really have no real basis of this being true other than my experience with a friend soloing some dungeons. I am highlighting "higher chance" because there have been times when we do last hit a boss, it doesn't drop the item we need still.

The only exception I know of is this..

I do know that one of the boss monsters in Payon always drops a Monk Knuckle which is weird.

The Fire Phantom Boss thingy. Even in Hard Mode. He has a high chance( if not 100%, need verification) of dropping a Monk Knuckle. I don't know if that is a bug or not since I can't confirm if it does always drop the item, but most runs in that dungeon wherein we kill the boss, results in a Monk Knuckle drop.

Also, another thing I notice is that there are dungeons in Hard Mode(particularly from Ghost Ship, Sandstorm, and Sandarman) that certain bosses drop a particular armor/weapon. So if for example you are missing a bottom armor, I would suggest killing Solomian in Sandarman. For RHD weapons, they mostly drop from Drake in GS, Russil in Sandstorm and Phantom of Death in Sandarman. I haven't seen the RHD weapon drop from other dungeons than the one I mention so far.

[sephiroso]

I don't know if the game really works like what I am about to tell you or not, but from experience, there is a higher chance for your class item to drop if you are the one who last hits the boss and if the boss doesn't die from a DoT. Again, this is just my own observation/assumption and really have no real basis of this being true other than my experience with a friend soloing some dungeons. I am highlighting "higher chance" because there have been times when we do last hit a boss, it doesn't drop the item we need still.

The only exception I know of is this..



The Fire Phantom Boss thingy. Even in Hard Mode. He has a high chance( if not 100%, need verification) of dropping a Monk Knuckle. I don't know if that is a bug or not since I can't confirm if it does always drop the item, but most runs in that dungeon wherein we kill the boss, results in a Monk Knuckle drop.

Also, another thing I notice is that there are dungeons in Hard Mode(particularly from Ghost Ship, Sandstorm, and Sandarman) that certain bosses drop a particular armor/weapon. So if for example you are missing a bottom armor, I would suggest killing Solomian in Sandarman. For RHD weapons, they mostly drop from Drake in GS, Russil in Sandstorm and Phantom of Death in Sandarman. I haven't seen the RHD weapon drop from other dungeons than the one I mention so far.

You do know bosses only drop 1 certain type of armor or weapon right? Like Boss A will drop nothing but gloves. Or Boss B will drop nothing but weapons. Or Boss C will drop nothing but Boots. There's no boss(that i know of) that drops weapons and armor.

As for the whole last hit thing, i highly doubt that's the case. Only things i've noticed(and everyone else on a large scale in the community) is your party composition has a clear impact on what will drop. Tired of seeing Monk/BM/Knight gear? Only way to stop it and actually get other class loots is to have a Monk/BM/Knight in party. Which is counter intuitive to a successful run, not to mention only room for 2 more classes.

[ODKN]

Aren't you the same person who was telling everyone there was no problem with drops after the colo update?

There is an obvious bias towards Monk/Beastmaster drops in every dungeon I've run. Do you even know how RNG works from a programming standpoint? There is no master "This is THE random number generating algorithm" that every programmer uses. They are made up by individuals/groups on a case by case basis and often require tweaking in order to become more "random," though nothing in mathematics is ever truly "random." In fact, ANY computational method to generate "random" numbers is technically called a "psuedorandom number generator" or, more precisely, a "deterministic random bit generator."

It takes a great deal of effort, testing and tweaking to create an algorithm that will not produce repeatable results in 10,000 runs. and I honestly doubt that Gravity spent the time and resources necessary to produce such a product. It is highly likely that they are using one of the many cookie-cutter PRNG algorithms available in programming libraries and using it to reference the loot table, which could easily be producing repeatable results considering the number of dungeon drops being queried every minute on the server.

I have never gotten repeatable results in any amount of dungeon runs. Here, let me churn out the same response as everyone else...

"There is bias because I *still* haven't gotten my damn gear at 50+ runs. Nerf Assassin and Knight gear!"

Of course, we know that what you guys are screaming for is bull...since loots drops are fully random in hard modes. There is no magical "Gear bias". The game does not magically assume your class, it drops whatever it can within given parameters. This is why you also don't magically get gear for your class all the time from Blue Boxes.

You do know bosses only drop 1 certain type of armor or weapon right? Like Boss A will drop nothing but gloves. Or Boss B will drop nothing but weapons. Or Boss C will drop nothing but Boots. There's no boss(that i know of) that drops weapons and armor.

This is only true in Normal. Except for the Final Morroc Bosses, every other boss can drop every single armour piece in Hard Mode.

Edited by ODKN, 28 May 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Nostus]

I just ran a Fortress of Sunderman run with myself (Rogue) a Warrior, Priest, Sorc and Wizard where all, except for two, pieces of gear that dropped were for monk (The other two were luckily for the Priest). If that wasn't bad enough two of the monk pieces of gear that dropped WERE EXACTLY THE SAME PIECE OF GEAR, I.E. Pants, which is just absolutely retarted and logically makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly this is a huge bug that needs to be fixed.

[ODKN]

I just ran a Fortress of Sunderman run with myself (Rogue) a Warrior, Priest, Sorc and Wizard where all, except for two, pieces of gear that dropped were for monk (The other two were luckily for the Priest). If that wasn't bad enough two of the monk pieces of gear that dropped WERE EXACTLY THE SAME PIECE OF GEAR, I.E. Pants, which is just absolutely retarted and logically makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly this is a huge bug that needs to be fixed.

One run isn't really proof. Also, you forgot to specificy if it was Normal or Hard, as they both have different drop tables.

Edited by ODKN, 28 May 2013 - 03:25 PM.

[Nostus]

One run isn't really proof. Also, you forgot to specificy if it was Normal or Hard, as they both have different drop tables.

This topic is clearly about the RHD Drop problem I assumed I didn't need to specify that this was a hardmode run so I applogize. I am a 5/6 HM geared Rogue so this wasn't my first time doing RHD's but this was the first time that I had seen two identical pairs of items drop in the same dungeon, that should be stastically near impossible. I would also argue that this one run, combined with the others having problems, is more proof then a single person saying their isn't and we all know what happened in the Drop Bug thread anyway.

[MigueloerX]

I have never gotten repeatable results in any amount of dungeon runs. Here, let me churn out the same response as everyone else...

"There is bias because I *still* haven't gotten my damn gear at 50+ runs. Nerf Assassin and Knight gear!"

Of course, we know that what you guys are screaming for is bull...since loots drops are fully random in hard modes. There is no magical "Gear bias". The game does not magically assume your class, it drops whatever it can within given parameters. This is why you also don't magically get gear for your class all the time from Blue Boxes.



This is only true in Normal. Except for the Final Morroc Bosses, every other boss can drop every single armour piece in Hard Mode.

Way to not read the thread and use a strawman argument without even backing your claims with sources, you're making yourself look even worse than you already did before. If anyone is screaming here is you trying to force your opinions, please dont go around telling everyone there isnt a problem because it didnt happen to you, i mean come on.

Plus, who said someone about assasins?

Edited by MigueloerX, 28 May 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[ODKN]

Plus, who said someone about assasins?

Who said anything about Monks or BMs? It's the *exact, same* argument. Just because I/you don't get what I want/need from a dungeon doesn't mean there is some conspiracy going on. Yes, some Normal mode dungeons may yield you more class gear than another one, but that has to do with some bosses having narrow drop tables. Such as the Phantom Fire boss always/nearly dropping knuckles.

This topic is clearly about the RHD Drop problem I assumed I didn't need to specify that this was a hardmode run so I applogize. I am a 5/6 HM geared Rogue so this wasn't my first time doing RHD's but this was the first time that I had seen two identical pairs of items drop in the same dungeon, that should be stastically near impossible. I would also argue that this one run, combined with the others having problems, is more proof then a single person saying their isn't and we all know what happened in the Drop Bug thread anyway.

It is actually possible to see two of the same item in one run, for hard mode.. As dirt low as the chances might be it is still completely possible, as long as it is in the tables. Also, the Drop Rate bug was something else entirely.

Also of note, setting up your party differently won't affect loot drops.

Edited by ODKN, 29 May 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Meconopsis]

You guys making claims need to play a BM or Monk then come back before pointing the blame on loot table favoring them. It's all RNG.

[MigueloerX]

Who said anything about Monks or BMs? It's the *exact, same* argument. Just because I/you don't get what I want/need from a dungeon doesn't mean there is some conspiracy going on. Yes, some Normal mode dungeons may yield you more class gear than another one, but that has to do with some bosses having narrow drop tables. Such as the Phantom Fire boss always/nearly dropping knuckles.





It is actually possible to see two of the same item in one run, for hard mode.. As dirt low as the chances might be it is still completely possible, as long as it is in the tables. Also, the Drop Rate bug was something else entirely.

Also of note, setting up your party differently won't affect loot drops.

As i said, way to not read the thread and understand what is happening, also stop cherrypicking arguments and try to be more comprehensive of what we are discussing, we all know some monsters only drop some class gear, and this is NOT, i repeat, NOT a problem of "I dont get what i need" this is a problem of doing a dungeon or field boss a billion times and getting the same result, there are 5 classes in the game which branch on 10 more, what are the chances to have only BM and monk gear drop from 30-40 runs on a dungeon and getting about 2 or 3 pieces of equipment for a class in party. Go be annoying somewhere else and let the admins clarify this issue, because thats what it is, an issue.

God forbid we say anything about your perfect game.

[ODKN]

As i said, way to not read the thread and understand what is happening, also stop cherrypicking arguments and try to be more comprehensive of what we are discussing, we all know some monsters only drop some class gear, and this is NOT, i repeat, NOT a problem of "I dont get what i need" this is a problem of doing a dungeon or field boss a billion times and getting the same result, there are 5 classes in the game which branch on 10 more, what are the chances to have only BM and monk gear drop from 30-40 runs on a dungeon and getting about 2 or 3 pieces of equipment for a class in party. Go be annoying somewhere else and let the admins clarify this issue, because thats what it is, an issue.

God forbid we say anything about your perfect game.

God forbid you listen to what I said earlier.

I *am* a BM and it's been 50+ runs till I got my gloves and I have done over 100 runs and still not found my defence pants. All you are complaining about is that you find gear for other classes "frequently". The chances are there, you just haven't gotten what you want yet and feel the need to vent that there is a "problem".

Personsaally, I would like to go with you and see this fantastical BM gear drop rate...

Edited by ODKN, 29 May 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[KurtisByakuya]

Dude don't you have the name awarded #1 troll? Of course no one is going to assume that you're being constructive at all, because frankly at this point your not. You mean to tell me you haven't had the same stuff pop up time after time again in dungeons, my guess is you probably aren't paying attention enough or god forbid your one of those people that is actually seeing an adverse result at of the numerous other people that are complaining.

I Ran ABL maybe 15 times with a Sorc, Sin(Me), Knight, Priest, and Ranger and I seen almost nothing but monk and beastmaster drops. In fact the last boss don't care if you believe more or not but it dropped 3 monk drops on the same kill, don't you think that in one run its weird that we found 4 monk items with no monk? At least 2 items of monk stuff per every other run except when we switched into a monk tank we ended up getting warrior gear, something is obviously wrong or else other people wouldn't be saying anything about it and I doubt you even know how RNG.

[Meconopsis]

God forbid you listen to what I said earlier.

I *am* a BM and it's been 50+ runs till I got my gloves and I have done over 100 runs and still not found my defence pants. All you are complaining about is that you find gear for other classes "frequently". The chances are there, you just haven't gotten what you want yet and feel the need to vent that there is a "problem".

Personsaally, I would like to go with you and see this fantastical BM gear drop rate...

I want to see this amazing 3+ monk drop per run too.

[sephiroso]

Who said anything about Monks or BMs? It's the *exact, same* argument. Just because I/you don't get what I want/need from a dungeon doesn't mean there is some conspiracy going on. Yes, some Normal mode dungeons may yield you more class gear than another one, but that has to do with some bosses having narrow drop tables. Such as the Phantom Fire boss always/nearly dropping knuckles.





It is actually possible to see two of the same item in one run, for hard mode.. As dirt low as the chances might be it is still completely possible, as long as it is in the tables. Also, the Drop Rate bug was something else entirely.

Also of note, setting up your party differently won't affect loot drops.

Yes, that is exactly what the case is. Setting up your party different ENTIRELY affects loot drops. If you actually read my detailed post you'd have some electrical synapses go off in your brain that produces thought and go Hmm, oh he's right, the loot tables are . Instead you keep trying to debunk EVERYONE and cry RNG, i know what the-_- RNG is. RNG is what you find in WoW. NONE of us are crying foul because we aren't getting gear, im used to going months without getting what i need, but i also have a brain and common sense and happen to use both. And i can clearly see the loot tables are not RANDOM in anyway shape or form. Random implies no variables that we can impose on the system will affect the outcome. Your party composition clearly affects the outcome thus it is not random and their formulas are up currently.

This will be the last time i respond to any post of yours since you clearly have no wish to educate yourself in the matter.

You guys making claims need to play a BM or Monk then come back before pointing the blame on loot table favoring them. It's all RNG.

Again read the god damn post i made. I'm assuming you are a BM or Monk and claiming that you never see your gear drop right? If you and your freaking idiot twin ODKN actually read what the-_- i posted, you would understand party composition affects what drops. IF you have a Monk or BM in the party, Monk and BM stuff STOPS dropping. Where as any party without Monk/BM in party will be getting 40-60% of the drops if not more going towards Monk/BM. But if there is a Monk/BM in party the drop rate for Monk/BM takes a dive and other classes loot starts dropping. Same exact thing i said in the first post, learn to god damn read at least the first post in a thread if you're going to bother posting in one.

God forbid you listen to what I said earlier.

I *am* a BM and it's been 50+ runs till I got my gloves and I have done over 100 runs and still not found my defence pants. All you are complaining about is that you find gear for other classes "frequently". The chances are there, you just haven't gotten what you want yet and feel the need to vent that there is a "problem".

Personsaally, I would like to go with you and see this fantastical BM gear drop rate...

EXACTLY. This is EXACTLY why its BROKEN. EVERY group that runs WITHOUT a BM will get the MAJORITY of their drops be for BMs. IF you have a BM in the PARTY then BM drops STOP dropping so god damned FREQUENTLY. UNDERSTAND?

I want to see this amazing 3+ monk drop per run too.

I think i've said the same god damn thing enough times. Learn to read.

Inb4 umadbro. I'm not mad, i'm actually laughing at the stupidity a few people exert sometimes. Usage of caps is so it captures their attention in the hopes that they actually read it this time.

Edited by sephiroso, 29 May 2013 - 07:27 AM.