40 replies to this topic

[Vegas]

Well, to be fair KTFlash, the Champion is based on a class that's still supposed to be a higher in HP and defense. However, the Raider is also supposed to be a striker and fast hitting damage dealer, so I'm wondering if it was merely build vs build that won or if there's anything else going on.

 

I still dislike they way you're going. Champion is a warrior, he wears heavy armor and should have a lot of health, basically there is no difference between warrior and knight, both wears heavy armor and both should be healthy, the only difference between a knight and warrior is that knight does less damage but has a shield that increases his protection, warrior has a heavy weapon that slices everything in it's path so I don't see a reason why champion and knight can't have a same amount of health.

[migsdali]

and u cant less the hp of knight coz oh hp absprb

[KTFlash]

I still dislike they way you're going. Champion is a warrior, he wears heavy armor and should have a lot of health, basically there is no difference between warrior and knight, both wears heavy armor and both should be healthy, the only difference between a knight and warrior is that knight does less damage but has a shield that increases his protection, warrior has a heavy weapon that slices everything in it's path so I don't see a reason why champion and knight can't have a same amount of health.

 

That's the problem right now and everyone thinks it's fair that the champ can outclass the knight very easily in attack, but the knight is just somewhat better at the defensive state than the champion.

 

and u cant less the hp of knight coz oh hp absprb

Hp absorb works on the 20% of damage dealt (wich is not many) to heal a resource pool that's higher than anyone else, for example, 20% of 800 dmg dealt, for example, will heal the knight for 160... wich is absolutely nothing when you have a pool of more than 20k. This is the discussion about champion, not knight anyways.

[Vegas]

 

That's the problem right now and everyone thinks it's fair that the champ can outclass the knight very easily in attack, but the knight is just somewhat better at the defensive state than the champion.

 

 

That's not the only problem, in Leonis most tanks are Champs, so if they won't be tanky anymore then who will do the tank role in dungeons? It will be extremely hard to find a tank for dungeon. If they are going to apply this update then we will have only 1 tank class and lots of damage dealers. Also it will be harder for damage dealer to find a party since we have such a high choice for damage dealers.

[SlowBob]

That's not the only problem, in Leonis most tanks are Champs, so if they won't be tanky anymore then who will do the tank role in dungeons? It will be extremely hard to find a tank for dungeon. If they are going to apply this update then we will have only 1 tank class and lots of damage dealers. Also it will be harder for damage dealer to find a party since we have such a high choice for damage dealers.

 

I hope you heared about knights, they are awsome tanks, even now, a tanking champ in dungeons is a joke compared to a tank....it isn't hard to find them, there are quite a few knights arround.

[SlowBob]

That's not the only problem, in Leonis most tanks are Champs, so if they won't be tanky anymore then who will do the tank role in dungeons? It will be extremely hard to find a tank for dungeon. If they are going to apply this update then we will have only 1 tank class and lots of damage dealers. Also it will be harder for damage dealer to find a party since we have such a high choice for damage dealers.

 

I hope you heared about knights, they are awsome tanks, even now at leonis, a tanking champ in a dungeon is a joke compared to a knight....it isn't hard to find them, there are quite a few knights arround.

Edited by SlowBob, 11 July 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[Leonis]

I still dislike they way you're going. Champion is a warrior, he wears heavy armor and should have a lot of health, basically there is no difference between warrior and knight, both wears heavy armor and both should be healthy, the only difference between a knight and warrior is that knight does less damage but has a shield that increases his protection, warrior has a heavy weapon that slices everything in it's path so I don't see a reason why champion and knight can't have a same amount of health.

I agree that they both come from the same cut of cloth, where they both want to wear heavier armor than most.

 

But I have to disagree that they are the same and the only difference is the shield.

 

Warriors train in the tactics of offensive strategies, how to overcome an opponent and defeat them. That kind of mentality, you're not necessarily thinking of your personal safety than you are how to defeat your opponent.

Knights train in the tactics of defensive strategies, how to protect something, disable their opponent so they are rendered unable to pose as a threat. That kind of mentality, you want to be sure that you're able to survive for as long as possible, while protecting your objective.

 

From all I've ever read and witnessed from history, even from personal experience, no matter the situation, it's always been strategically more difficult to defend than to be the aggressor and because of that, the defender generally reinforces themselves in all manners they can. So, more health for the Knight is a perfectly natural thing.

That's not the only problem, in Leonis most tanks are Champs, so if they won't be tanky anymore then who will do the tank role in dungeons? It will be extremely hard to find a tank for dungeon. If they are going to apply this update then we will have only 1 tank class and lots of damage dealers. Also it will be harder for damage dealer to find a party since we have such a high choice for damage dealers.

And that's wrong, that Champions are the tanks, because that's not their role. And there will be two tank classes, the Clerics were showing to be very sturdy last night during some play time. It was quite impressive to see, but they also built themselves to be so. Their only downside was they don't have a taunt to take the attention of a target, but they have the ability to heal and support otherwise, if built to do so.

[Vegas]

And that's wrong, that Champions are the tanks, because that's not their role. And there will be two tank classes, the Clerics were showing to be very sturdy last night during some play time. It was quite impressive to see, but they also built themselves to be so. Their only downside was they don't have a taunt to take the attention of a target, but they have the ability to heal and support otherwise, if built to do so.

 

Since when clerics are tanks?

 

I saw clerics use those off-hands and when I see a tanking cleric it just makes no sense. Every single MMO healer class can't tank, but in ROSE a light clothes wearing healer can be a better tank than a champion with heavy armor.

 

Sorry, but this just makes no sense.

[Leonis]

Since when clerics are tanks?

 

I saw clerics use those off-hands and when I see a tanking cleric it just makes no sense. Every single MMO healer class can't tank, but in ROSE a light clothes wearing healer can be a better tank than a champion with heavy armor.

 

Sorry, but this just makes no sense.

Apparently not every single MMO. Sorry this doesn't make sense to you but it does to me. The difference between a Knight and a Cleric tanking, is the Cleric is supplementing it's power as a magic user, to create a shield to protect itself. But it doesn't mean its defenses are comparable to a Knight's through the same effort. Since they are squishier than a Knight in the long run, the ability to heal themselves can help keep themselves in a survivable situation. However, should something drain them of their MP, well now they're kind of little helpless since they rely on being able to cast spells, while a Knight would be able to continue on because his abilities are more natural.

 

I bring this up as a point, because in the future, monsters will be getting more intelligent and tricky. You may encounter monsters that will drain you of your MP or silence your ability to cast spells, so the Cleric would be at their mercy in comparison.

[migsdali]

what year that come after 10 years

[Vegas]

Apparently not every single MMO. Sorry this doesn't make sense to you but it does to me. The difference between a Knight and a Cleric tanking, is the Cleric is supplementing it's power as a magic user, to create a shield to protect itself. But it doesn't mean its defenses are comparable to a Knight's through the same effort. Since they are squishier than a Knight in the long run, the ability to heal themselves can help keep themselves in a survivable situation. However, should something drain them of their MP, well now they're kind of little helpless since they rely on being able to cast spells, while a Knight would be able to continue on because his abilities are more natural.

 

I bring this up as a point, because in the future, monsters will be getting more intelligent and tricky. You may encounter monsters that will drain you of your MP or silence your ability to cast spells, so the Cleric would be at their mercy in comparison.

 

Then make a magic barrier shield animation for cleric, make the every hit cleric blocks drain some mp. Add difference between physical and magical attacks blocking (ex: Knight shield strong to blocking meele attacks but weak to magical attack, and cleric strong to block a magical attack and weak to physical). Both should be able to block magic and physical damage, just one will have more advantage againt magic or physical attacks.

[Leonis]

There is an effect when you hit a Muse with Mana Shield on. It might be a bit too subtle for you to see though, I can try to make it more obvious.

 

As for draining MP with every hit, how it works is, you pay for the barrier up front and it is based on your existing MP. So if you keep trying to cast it, it will eventually drain you out if you don't recover the MP faster than you keep consuming it to put a shield up.

 

Shields already block more physical than they do magical and Magic Tools have a higher amount of magic defense to block magic attacks with.  They both have the ability to block either otherwise, just one is more effective than the other depending on the type of damage being blocked.

[Vegas]

There is an effect when you hit a Muse with Mana Shield on. It might be a bit too subtle for you to see though, I can try to make it more obvious.

 

As for draining MP with every hit, how it works is, you pay for the barrier up front and it is based on your existing MP. So if you keep trying to cast it, it will eventually drain you out if you don't recover the MP faster than you keep consuming it to put a shield up.

 

Shields already block more physical than they do magical and Magic Tools have a higher amount of magic defense to block magic attacks with.  They both have the ability to block either otherwise, just one is more effective than the other depending on the type of damage being blocked.

 

That's nice.

 

Lately I saw cleric easily solo boss with Ice Dragon pet. He just didn't need to do anything except heal his pet. Cleric didn't get hit at all and he didn't need to attack boss, his pet just did his bidding. Another thing now clerics can tank so they are also good tanks. Plus they are healers.

Don't you think cleric is a little bit too much overpowered as it can easily solo boss without dying, be a tank in dungeons and also heal?
 

[aaaeQz]

About spear champs,

• Regarding the 3 spear AOEs on the Champion's tab (''Dance of Fire'' , ''Dance of Wind'' , ''Dance of Ice''): Are they really meant to be plain AOEs or they are missing some additional status effects? They all look dull without any effects.
• The 30 seconds duration of ''Berserk''  , it usually worns out just before i start pvping or killing something , considering its 1minute cooldown when maxed , it seems to be too short and mana consuming.
• (I don't know the others but) Also noticed that ''Berserker's Cry'' skill randomly misses when its success rate is already 100% and  the enemy is already inside the 10m area of effect.

 

 

Are we going to be pushed to max level to test the few more remaining details before it goes live? (please   )

Edited by aaaeQz, 17 July 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Leonis]

That's nice.

 

Lately I saw cleric easily solo boss with Ice Dragon pet. He just didn't need to do anything except heal his pet. Cleric didn't get hit at all and he didn't need to attack boss, his pet just did his bidding. Another thing now clerics can tank so they are also good tanks. Plus they are healers.

Don't you think cleric is a little bit too much overpowered as it can easily solo boss without dying, be a tank in dungeons and also heal?
 

The Ice Dragon summon is indeed powerful. If the Cleric was supporting another character that could withstand a powerful monster, I wouldn't doubt they would also, as a duo, be able to overcome a difficult monster. That's kind of the point of a summon based class. Is the Ice Dragon too powerful? Possibly. And we'll have to review the summon's strengths and weaknesses to ensure that they're balanced out as well. But it sounds like the Cleric just figured out how they can manage to remain fairly high in their support ability, while obtaining an offensive style that suits their liking.

 

As for being a tank, there are ways they can withstand higher amounts of damage now, but it isn't natural. They have to keep mana shield constantly up, which if they don't have the regeneration rate to sustain it, will eventually drain them out. They are still less defended than most classes, unless they build to be a tank. But then how effective are they as a support class? Their buffs may be weaker. While they are able to withstand more punishment in the heat of battle, their support buffs may not be as powerful for their team. Which would win out? A group of players with stronger buffs or the one Cleric that is tougher than most to bring down?

I think the trade off is fine. Also, keep class discussions to their class threads please. This thread is about Champions.

[Leonis]

About spear champs,

• Regarding the 3 spear AOEs on the Champion's tab (''Dance of Fire'' , ''Dance of Wind'' , ''Dance of Ice''): Are they really meant to be plain AOEs or they are missing some additional status effects? They all look dull without any effects.
• The 30 seconds duration of ''Berserk''  , it usually worns out just before i start pvping or killing something , considering its 1minute cooldown when maxed , it seems to be too short and mana consuming.
• (I don't know the others but) Also noticed that ''Berserker's Cry'' skill randomly misses when its success rate is already 100% and  the enemy is already inside the 10m area of effect.

 

 

Are we going to be pushed to max level to test the few more remaining details before it goes live? (please   )

 

The Dance of [element] skills are damage dealers. Not every skill needs to have a status effect.

 

Berserk isn't intended for a long run fight. It is designed to be a short burst of power to turn the tide of a fight, not continuously let you annihilate everything around you. The effect is incredibly powerful, which in turn will take a higher cost and tax, which reduces as you master it, but still takes its toll.

 

It has a 10m AoE range, and if monsters walked in or out of the range during cast, its possible that they were missed because of that. Most tests I've done with AoE effects and skills have proven to be working fine.

 

 

Next patch, I'll push everyone to 230. This is the last stretch of testing we need before preparing for the live server launch.