14 replies to this topic

[SuperGlue]

Is maxing Mark of Genocide really worth it? 2% is really insignificant.

Personally, I'd rather invest in more utility abilities like getting uber 160% movement speed

[4860130515113635440]

Yes and no. It can be worth it because applying it gives 2% to everyone in a party for a 10% increase in overall crits. But it is also probably the worst party buff because it only really helps classes other than Ranger/Sin/Rogue. If you're going to be joining Raids/parties find a way to take it. Also there is no real reason to have 160ms while cloaked, anything you gain from it can be gotten cheaper with pots or mounts, and you're already faster than nearly everyone in colo in SF. What kind of set up are you using?

[sephiroso]

Yes and no. It can be worth it because applying it gives 2% to everyone in a party for a 10% increase in overall crits. But it is also probably the worst party buff because it only really helps classes other than Ranger/Sin/Rogue. If you're going to be joining Raids/parties find a way to take it. Also there is no real reason to have 160ms while cloaked, anything you gain from it can be gotten cheaper with pots or mounts, and you're already faster than nearly everyone in colo in SF. What kind of set up are you using?

stop saying 2% first of all. its 1.6%. Because every rogue/assassin will be getting level 1 for pre-req. which gives 0.4%. 1.6% crit to everyone in a party is not additive either. You won't see "8%" more crits. There's just an 8% more chance of your party critting. Also it helps sorcs/priests because they have passives that increase their heal effectiveness based on their crits.

I cant speak for assassins, i'll speak for rogues though. Skip maxing it. Not worth it, rogues have to little points to go around as it is.

[SuperGlue]

To be honest, I'm leaning towards an assassin atm since I'd think it's a good all around character to start with. "Easy mode" if you'd prefer.

So far, my toon is level 12 and I've pumped strength since then and now I've maxed double attack, that finisher and got level 1 poison weapon.

Problem is that sins are probably over saturated ehh better find a guild I suppose.

Edited by SuperGlue, 10 June 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[4860130515113635440]

Pumping up strength first? I'd go for agility as it gives better returns early on IMO.

[RoseRIP]

I'm glad you brought this up as others have mentioned it, but didn't talk about it in much detail. 1.6% additional crit seems like it would provide very low advantage to party members. Considering we need to invest 4 more skill points into maxing it, it doesn't seem worth it just by talking about it.

Your party members may complain by not having maxed Mark of Genocide but being able to use those points to enhance your individual self may help the overall party performance.

It's not like its a direct stat increase buff that most players have. Ours is based on chance so it's hard to measure the buff's usefulness especially if your party members have low crit rate.

This would also relieve the pressure of having to applying the mark of genocide buff after reap awning in coliseum. I don't know about you guys but I only like to apply one buff once I respawn in coliseum before I start running. Applying two buffs will increase the odds that someone will target you since you're standing still.

[4860130515113635440]

You don't have to stand still to apply MoG you can do it while running, so that is not an issue.

[RoseRIP]

Oh yeah you're right. I was thinking of the assassin's self crit buff

[Adamage]

Btw. Crits help all dps. The only class that doesn't really Benicia much is a priest since they have have low crit. The dps gain on a raid from the additional 1.6% crit is better than an individual skill IMO.
I'm pretty sure the skill you would put the points into would do less overall damage than the ( let's be ultra conservative) 3 extra crits from each dps and tanks.

[ruusei]

geno/posion is a preference, for my rouge i get posion
ive always seen sins go for max geno

[mysticalre]

I did a few DPS tests with a friend on that raid scarecrow in PvP for fun yesterday

We both had full colo gear, and we evened out our ATK, but the difference was I had 6% more crit chance. The scarecrow has 1.08 mil HP, and when I killed it, his had ~90-100k HP left. After evening out our crit chance, we basically killed it at almost identical times (5K damage difference out of 1.08 mil) At first that seems low, roughly a 9-10% damage difference for 6% crit chance. I think the takeaway message is don't underestimate even +1.6% crit.

For example, with recent raidbosses (all 2.2mil HP++), your crit buff will make at least 150k combined DMG of a difference among your party, assuming 4-6 DPS players. I think that's a good improvement for one raid member's 4 skill points.

^ btw, this is a PvE perspective. there's also a lot of assumptions up there, like people doing the same dps, etc. but it's just to give a rough idea

If you need colo gear, then I wouldn't mind at all dropping the crit buff FIRST to put into PvP skills. But after I got my colo gear, the first thing I did was max the crit buff for my raid group

Edited by mysticalre, 29 June 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[ZT0100]

It's not worth maxing. I think it's better to have put points into utility skill like you said. 1.6% is like getting about 2 crits for every 100 hits. Being in a party of 5 means that you get 10 crits for every 500 hits. See how insignificant that is?

[SparklingLimeade]

The way I look at it crits seem to deal double damage and because it takes so many attacks we can analyze crit with simple statistics. A party buff with .4% crit per level is a .4% damage increase* for the party. That's small. The only advantage is that it's a buff that will be working passively and it's party wide so that .4% times 3 DPS actually makes it bigger than the 1% damage buff we Sins put on ourselves alone. Even with this going for it I'm considering using the points elsewhere because the miniscule change is effectively invisible with how much it's spread out across the entire party and every attack made. It will reduce the amount of time to kill a boss but the 1.6% difference between max and unmaxed would probably require a stopwatch and multiple trials to notice.

And as an added bonus there's a chance that someone else in your party could have maxed it, making your personal investment irrelevant even in the only situation where it could be important. Right now in my build it's a competition between MoG for the minor improvements in PvE or Shadow Assault for solo farming and PvP. Still have those points floating after my reset.

*except DoTs and the like

[Elysion]

rogues have lots of points since moonlight and mark of death are not really worth taking and while dirty plan is good its almost never on cooldown when i want to use it at level 1. I can see raising it to 2 or 3 though if you have the points.

Id only skip it on some sort of pure colo build, but i wouldnt reccomend a melee class for that.

You can deffinitly max it last though.

[archedemon]

Personal experience:

As an assassin, my stat build is 41/41, I've played up to level 50 and from what I noticed, even a 2% increase in Critical Rate is tremendous in this game, especially at later levels. I say that because at level 50, it takes roughly 10 points in AGI to equal 1%. People see low numbers and think low returns, in part, this is true only because as you level your proc rate for critical strikes decreases. If your goal is to build a critical assassin or rogue, that 2% from Mark of Genocide is a must, especially for assassins.

Assassin's also have their own self-critical buff, Shadow Claw, this allows them to obtain an extra 5% to their Critical Rate, paired with MoG, that's a total of 7%. As an assassin, if you have those skills at your disposal, you -will- notice the difference between using them and not, I guarantee it.

For people who don't know, that 2% or 5% goes directly to your Critical Rate. If you had 20% Critical Rate and you use MoG, you now have a 22% Critical Rate.

Procing more damage > Increased Movement Speed.

1 point in Dark Illusion will allow you to dash next to your enemy anyway(Good if you're a rogue in Colo + Smoke Bomb), if that's your goal.
Assassin's have a leap attack, Shadow Assault = Leap+ Knockdown - 20 sec Cooldown, that allows them to get to their target.

MoG can be used for parties, and is a good solo buff since all your skills that deal damage to an enemy have a chance to proc a crit.

I believe regardless of your build, 2% is significant, but if you're looking for what looks to be more consistent damage, there are other skills to put those points in to, like Poisoning Weapon. That skill actually procs fairly often and does a good amount of damage along side your attacks. Mark of Death is only good for bossing, really. The cooldown is what holds it back. What really holds Rogues back as far as potential damage is their CD on their skills.