16 replies to this topic

[DivineShadow]

most topics i see asking for Assassin help, people suggest getting VIT runes and spending points in the VIT stat as you level.

To be Blunt.. DON'T DO IT.

Yes, sometimes specific cases are different. But a General rule of thumb.. don't waste money on Vit runes or precious points into the Vit Stat. It's a waste. It's a 2 way road. People say Dead DPS is no DPS, but No DPS is.. well, No DPS. You are gimping yourself a lot if you're going full VIT builds. It really comes down to gear. If you need to socket Vit to do a raid, then you are not ready. Defence always plays a part in Raiding. Sure, bosses to 6k Burst in HM.. but if you go in naked with 6K HP, you'll still get one shotted. You need defence, and Dodge, and PArry, it all adds up. If you need to socket everything into Vit to survive a fight, then you are lacking in the other area's as well. You're gimping your DPS, so fights last longer. And it means, like i said earlier, your gear is behind as well. MEaning you get hit harder, and more often, and that also puts more strain on your healers. It can Snowball real fast.

Unbuffed, No vit runes, no HP pots, just my HP i have 6.7k as an assassin. I have never Socketed VIT, and my stats are 31/49. ZERO in Vit. Just keep working your way up the ladder. You can't hit 50 then jump into HM Arena. You need to work through NM bapho and Arena first, to get your gear up to par. With gear comes the stats you need.

[Elysion]

you can not get the required hitpoints to do things with out socketing vit, unless you wasted stat points in vit.

Of course you could just skip everything and get colo gear but in that case there is no point in doing the raids currently in game anyway.

You will not get 6k unbuffed hitpoints with normal einherjar set. With it, socketed wit vit, with vip, and a pvp weapon, you will get somewhere around 6k unbuffed, which is enough for hard mode bapho and arena.

[DivineShadow]

you can not get the required hitpoints to do things with out socketing vit, unless you wasted stat points in vit.
.

Yes you can. I did it. Lol. Like i said. I have NEVER socketed Vit, or put stats into, and i was clearing HM bapho / Arena a month /2 months into Ro2. It is NOT "required" as an Assassin.

[Elysion]

What was your gear at that point? If you overgeared yourself with some pvp gear then sure, but that defeats the purpose of running the dungeons in the first place.

Right now i have, unbuffed, 5636 hitpoints.

Thats with rhd weapon and chest, the rest normal raid set, stc, vip, and full vit socket in each of them, as well as vit in a few costume pieces. If i upgraded my chest and weapon to normal set i may end up with another 150 hitpoints or so, which is not even what i get from my vit runes.

Im about a day away from my pvp weapon, and if i get lucky and my chest drops next raid, still socketing for vit mind you, i will hit 6k unbuffed.

Thats WITH vit socketing, in gear and costume. If i removed all of that i would be 43 vit short, which, with vip, is 283 hitpoints, which would leave me at 5353 hitpoints unbuffed, and 6075 buffed. i dont feel like 6k buffed is enough for bapho/pve hard (full, my raid clears 3/4 bapho H). My current 6.4k buffed is not enough to fully clear them either.

So tell me, where are the hitpoints supposed to come from, if not vit socketing?

[mysticalre]

here's some reference if anyone needs (not using any VIT gems runes)

crafted gear + hardmode helm + colo wep, 6144 unbuffed
http://i.imgur.com/9q7Skwo.jpg

hard mode gear + colo gear, 6593 unbuffed
http://i.imgur.com/4yBQEOy.jpg

I'm using 40/40/8 because that's what I read about the most when I was completely noob, haven't rerolled since, and I'm also using STC+ cards for now, most of it is fairly affordable stuff without needing the cash shop

Short 2 pieces for the full colo set, but not a big fan of the VIT runes though, I can understand why you'd use it, and I was in the same situation - but I went to farm for zeny to craft the dark valk pieces before I started to raid

Edited by mysticalre, 17 June 2013 - 03:14 PM.

[Elysion]

Thats a huge waste of zeny, crafted gear. RHD is good enough for normal, and normal is good enough for hard, provided you vit rune.

A guildy of mine got a full crafted set and then had it entierly replaced after less than a week. All that wasted zeny. I guess you could +1 it and try to sell it, but even that is gonna set you back a good amount of cash, and i doubt you will recover the crafting fee + what you could have gotten for the mats.

Colo weapon alone adds a huge amount of vit over the rhd or raid ones. Colo gear is equivalent to CoA, so once you factor that in, yeah, you start getting enough hitpoints.

Thats always been the reccomendation though, thats the reason people say dont raise vit, and just use runes when you hit 50, because you dont need any extra vit once you get geared. You dont put points into it, and compensate with stc and vit runes untill you get enough, then as your gear improves you switch out to things that raise your damage more. It was always meant to be a temporary fix for a shortage caused by leaving vit low.

Advising a new 50 not to put vit runes in his RHD stuff is terible advice, that runed rhd stuff is what lets him start raiding comfortably.

Edited by Elysion, 17 June 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[mysticalre]

I think it's just inefficient to follow the natural gear progression, RHD > N gear > H gear

How long does it take to get you full normal-raid gear? Probably a few runs (considering 4 day raid cooldowns, that's 1-2 weeks)

ok now how long does it take to get crafted gear? ... grab a priest, go ori farming for 1-2 days, and you've enough zeny to afford gear superior to N raid gear...

[Elysion]

For what purpose? Gear is normalized in colo so other than pvp gears bonus pvp % having better gear helps nothing there.

standard RHD gear is good enough to do OBB runs.

Therefore there is no reason not to just skip everything between RHD and pvp gear, other than you want to progress through the content. Spending zeny when you could be saving it for ori and karnium for your pvp weapon or rare cards or something just seems wasteful.

[DivineShadow]

What was your gear at that point? If you overgeared yourself with some pvp gear then sure, but that defeats the purpose of running the dungeons in the first place.

Right now i have, unbuffed, 5636 hitpoints.

Thats with rhd weapon and chest, the rest normal raid set, stc, vip, and full vit socket in each of them, as well as vit in a few costume pieces. If i upgraded my chest and weapon to normal set i may end up with another 150 hitpoints or so, which is not even what i get from my vit runes.

Im about a day away from my pvp weapon, and if i get lucky and my chest drops next raid, still socketing for vit mind you, i will hit 6k unbuffed.

Thats WITH vit socketing, in gear and costume. If i removed all of that i would be 43 vit short, which, with vip, is 283 hitpoints, which would leave me at 5353 hitpoints unbuffed, and 6075 buffed. i dont feel like 6k buffed is enough for bapho/pve hard (full, my raid clears 3/4 bapho H). My current 6.4k buffed is not enough to fully clear them either.

So tell me, where are the hitpoints supposed to come from, if not vit socketing?

I started playing Day 1. I have progressed through the whole game the way it was meant to be progressed. I did ALL quests leveling, to include Dungeon quests, and ran dungeons of the level to aquire better gear. Note that i was doing Sanderman atlvl 48, and we were un-able to complete it due to gear. So it's not like im some super special exception. I hit 50, and immediately began farming RHD's. I was FULL RHD save for maybe 2 acc. when I began Raiding. The first week of raiding we went 3/4. the 2nd week once we had more normal Bapho gear, we entered into Arena. Once we completed Arena, we started HM bapho. HM arena was attempted, but because of the HP / Gear requirements we killed the first 2 bosses (after HOURS of wiping) and focued on HM bapho, doing them on re-sets. after maybe 2 weeks, we returned to Arena HM and cleared it. I was raiding before collo even dropped. I never had WD / Tux or Recruit. Was pure gear. As stated before, i was also and still am 31/49 no Vit. And now, look where i am now. 7.7K buffed. (with VIP) Not once did i ever socket Vit, or even buy crafted gear. The 6k Requirement you see for Raids is BUFFED. with VIP, and WITH blessing. 6k unbuffed is a lot MORE than you "need" for HM anything. At that point you are ready for the new raids.

Honestly, 6K is all you need for HM bapho. that 6k HP pool is more for Arena.. The first two bosses rotate a raid wide AOE that hits for 6.2K and there is nothing you can do to avoid it other than didge / PArry. It requires you to use abilities to live through. IE Sanc / Deluge. But, thats a part of raiding. Even with my 7.7K HP in HM bapho / Arena, i still die, and still CAN be one shotted. Though, it's VERY rare. it's more just guidelines, and to be able to "safely" progress.

[Bronx]

Or you can just let people play the game for themselves, to determine what route they want to choose. Some people might enjoy having Vit runes for the extra hp, while some might perfer Agi for the Crit/Dodge, Str, etc. etc. In the end, it's all up to you how you want to customize your character. The game would be pretty lame if every single Assassin was a carbon copy of the next one.

[Shiris]

Anyone know how much HP you need for CoA Hard unbuffed?

[DivineShadow]

Anyone know how much HP you need for CoA Hard unbuffed?

probably around 7k, maybe more. CoA is going to be harder than Arena. And you can get hit for 7k in Arena.

[Adamage]

most topics i see asking for Assassin help, people suggest getting VIT runes and spending points in the VIT stat as you level.

To be Blunt.. DON'T DO IT.

Yes, sometimes specific cases are different. But a General rule of thumb.. don't waste money on Vit runes or precious points into the Vit Stat. It's a waste. It's a 2 way road. People say Dead DPS is no DPS, but No DPS is.. well, No DPS. You are gimping yourself a lot if you're going full VIT builds. It really comes down to gear. If you need to socket Vit to do a raid, then you are not ready. Defence always plays a part in Raiding. Sure, bosses to 6k Burst in HM.. but if you go in naked with 6K HP, you'll still get one shotted. You need defence, and Dodge, and PArry, it all adds up. If you need to socket everything into Vit to survive a fight, then you are lacking in the other area's as well. You're gimping your DPS, so fights last longer. And it means, like i said earlier, your gear is behind as well. MEaning you get hit harder, and more often, and that also puts more strain on your healers. It can Snowball real fast.

Unbuffed, No vit runes, no HP pots, just my HP i have 6.7k as an assassin. I have never Socketed VIT, and my stats are 31/49. ZERO in Vit. Just keep working your way up the ladder. You can't hit 50 then jump into HM Arena. You need to work through NM bapho and Arena first, to get your gear up to par. With gear comes the stats you need.

So tell me, Mr. DPS Guru. Exactly how much dps do you gain from socketing 35 vit over 35 str/agi. Or exactly how much more dps do you get from 5 more str and 5 more agi for another 25 vit?
Seriously, think before you speak. If you wanna be a glass cannon, fine, but you punish your raid. And let me tell you, no raid needs a dedicated ground tanker.

Also, lets do some math, 41/41 equals 82 status points. 36/36/25 equals 97. If you wanna min/max do it right and stat appropriately and socket the difference to at least gain a good chunk of vit. Seriously, go retake an arithmetic class.

Edited by Adamage, 23 June 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[Elysion]

Honestly, 6K is all you need for HM bapho.

yeah, but bapho is pretty easy if you know what you are doing, if you dont want to have to get both pieces before attempting arena, vit runes and everything else you can do (embroiderys, hp buff pots) is reccomended.

I have 7k buffed now. I am now runing for str as i improve my gear, swapping out vit runes as i get more vit on gear. As my gear improves eventually ill have no more vit runes to take out, and my buffed hitpoints will increase.

Untill this point however, i would reccomend vit runes. I rarley died in my journy here, but i did often get knocked down to just a few hundred hitpoints.

My guild is doing pve H with our main raid and bringing parts of secondary raid group into bapho H now. Some of them still have a few pieces of RHD gear. They all vit rune and we have been able to do it because of that. 1 or 200 more hitpoints can be critical.

The hardest i have been hit by a 'normal' unavoidable aoe in PVE H is 6.5k. Being able to tank a crit is important. Sometimes things happen like a person gets a tic of poison on them right as an aoe is winding up. You can not count on your full hitpoints being up at all times so having a buffer is important.

Also more health means bigger GP tics. The great thing about rogues is your healers can pretty much ignore you most of the time, which makes them great, since aoe healing can be on the stack, the priest can focus on tanks, and the rogues can heal themselves. Having more hitpoints means more self healing.

[Nitro]

My assassin has significant investment in VIT. He tends to be #1 DPS, and usually makes it to round 4 if not the final round of Colosseum. He is notoriously difficult to kill 1v1, and usually is one of the last alive if a raid is going south.

[Velouce]

So tell me, Mr. DPS Guru. Exactly how much dps do you gain from socketing 35 vit over 35 str/agi. Or exactly how much more dps do you get from 5 more str and 5 more agi for another 25 vit?
Seriously, think before you speak. If you wanna be a glass cannon, fine, but you punish your raid. And let me tell you, no raid needs a dedicated ground tanker.

Also, lets do some math, 41/41 equals 82 status points. 36/36/25 equals 97. If you wanna min/max do it right and stat appropriately and socket the difference to at least gain a good chunk of vit. Seriously, go retake an arithmetic class.

You could as well add 25 points into 1 stat and 24 into the other 4, this way you get a total of 121 spent points. Is that your argument? The fact here is, VIT is NOT as important as STR and AGI. And those 120 HP more wont excuse mistakes done in battle, especially when your unbuffed HP reaches 6,5k+. Do you really think that this is important enough to start attacking someone because of a different opinion than yours?

I started playing Day 1. I have progressed through the whole game the way it was meant to be progressed. I did ALL quests leveling, to include Dungeon quests, and ran dungeons of the level to aquire better gear. Note that i was doing Sanderman atlvl 48, and we were un-able to complete it due to gear. So it's not like im some super special exception. I hit 50, and immediately began farming RHD's. I was FULL RHD save for maybe 2 acc. when I began Raiding. The first week of raiding we went 3/4. the 2nd week once we had more normal Bapho gear, we entered into Arena. Once we completed Arena, we started HM bapho. HM arena was attempted, but because of the HP / Gear requirements we killed the first 2 bosses (after HOURS of wiping) and focued on HM bapho, doing them on re-sets. after maybe 2 weeks, we returned to Arena HM and cleared it. I was raiding before collo even dropped. I never had WD / Tux or Recruit. Was pure gear. As stated before, i was also and still am 31/49 no Vit. And now, look where i am now. 7.7K buffed. (with VIP) Not once did i ever socket Vit, or even buy crafted gear. The 6k Requirement you see for Raids is BUFFED. with VIP, and WITH blessing. 6k unbuffed is a lot MORE than you "need" for HM anything. At that point you are ready for the new raids.

Honestly, 6K is all you need for HM bapho. that 6k HP pool is more for Arena.. The first two bosses rotate a raid wide AOE that hits for 6.2K and there is nothing you can do to avoid it other than didge / PArry. It requires you to use abilities to live through. IE Sanc / Deluge. But, thats a part of raiding. Even with my 7.7K HP in HM bapho / Arena, i still die, and still CAN be one shotted. Though, it's VERY rare. it's more just guidelines, and to be able to "safely" progress.

Exactly this.

[RORose]

For what purpose? Gear is normalized in colo so other than pvp gears bonus pvp % having better gear helps nothing there.

standard RHD gear is good enough to do OBB runs.

Therefore there is no reason not to just skip everything between RHD and pvp gear, other than you want to progress through the content. Spending zeny when you could be saving it for ori and karnium for your pvp weapon or rare cards or something just seems wasteful.

 

To you, bottom line it's a viable option that saves some people time. If it wasn't then no one would do OBB runs to begin with. Also you can +1 those items and resell them fairly easy, without losing zeny in the process.