17 replies to this topic

[ZT0100]

60 seconds down to 20 seconds from maxing it means that it can be used 3 times as much. But how often is it used in the Colosseum? 5 seconds knock-down(5 combo points) means that you can get in 2-3 hits before the target gets back up. Do you think it's better to stun your opponent than to getting a fully charged Deadly Blow or Moonlight Dance in? I have seen videos of rogues PvPing and they usually hide around and strike with Dark Illusion. This should give them enough time for Crescent Moon cooldown, even if it's being left at level 1. Plus, rogues have Dirty Plan to reset the cooldown. I am thinking of maxing the poison buff or even Mark of Death for more DPS.

I haven't started PvPing yet because I am still a newbie. I need your input on this before I distribute my skill points. People's guides say that it should be maxed for PvP. I don't want to have to make a new rogue. Help please!

[Elysion]

you really should max poisoning

Many times ive stunned someone they get killed and i should have probably just deadly blowed. That said i am considering moving my 5 points out of moonlight and into this, because there really isnt much else to put it into, and its nice to get rangers, priests, and assassins killed with it even if you dont get the kill.

[ZT0100]

I am starting to think poison isn't the best idea for colosseum because it can work against you by allowing others to KS your weakened target. Burst damage is better than DoT damage.  I think maybe adding points into Hiding or Dark Illusion would be a better idea. But thanks for the input, for now I am completely sure that Crescent Moon shouldn't be maxed.

[archedemon]

Honestly, and some people won't agree, but from personal experience...
Burst damage > DoT in Colosseum.

Why do I say this? 

Mages.
They can and most often do, same with Rangers, kill someone with anywhere between 500 to 3k HP in a single hit, or two. Your DoT won't matter at that point. Most people are looking for that person in a weakened state to snipe. If someone is in low HP and trying to run away from his melee attacker, usually a ranged class picks them off before a DoT ever gets to kill them(because they will hp pot if they're smart).

Colo is all about Burst damage when it comes to getting kills, not DoTs. You won't be standing around 1 v 1ing people with that many people around for your DoT's to really take effect. 

You could go Crescent Moon as long as you know how long the animation time is, this way you can more effectively land your hits, if you plan to try and steal a kill with it.

For a Rogue in Colosseum, Dark Illusion is great. It gets you next to your targets quick, pair it with Smoke Bomb, and you're good to go on and off through the matches. Tip: When hidden, use Dagger Throw at your target, before it hits your opponent(since it takes time to get there) use DI. You'll land two hits = more damage in close to one shot. Get timing down and prey an Ranger or Mage don't snipe him before you can get your damage in.

They have insane burst damage, mages specifically.

 

[ZT0100]

That about sums it up, lol. I really don't like that Dagger Throw/ Di trick, though. You always have to stay away for at least 15m and hope that the DI glitch doesn't happen. Sometimes I throw the dagger and appear behind them without doing the DI damage because I am not facing the target( for some reason), and I absolutely hate that.

[archedemon]

Yeah, I have same problem. It's been happening on my assassin with Shadow Assault too. Will just stand off to the side of them, attack won't land or activate, and I'll be facing away like.. "Oh, what a pretty tree..."

When you throw your dagger though, and then use DI, you close gap almost instantly, still useful trick. So even if it doesn't land, at least you are near target, with a possible hit from your dagger too.

Deadly Blow is okay to use too, cast time and animation time is fairly quick. And with just 3 combo points, it does good damage. 

Edited by archedemon, 03 July 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Leinzan]

Dagger throw + Dark Illusion is a great start burst damange that can be executed at an extreme minimum of 10m, however from personal experience I dont recomend it on laggy enviroments with complicated target locations as colo, since that will enhance the chances of the glitch hitting in.

 

Better do the Dark Illusion alone and if you didnt get the kill but target seems alive and a little away, just throw the dagger. I've got a few kills like that.

 

About Crecent Moon, it is an awesome skill to max if you are planning to jump into the fray once your hiddings ran out.

You just go, hit left and right, find a target with about 2/3 hp, charge your combo points with its blood, throw it down while it doesnt yet run away, get more points with dual stab and double attacks and when it gets up with its remaining hp, moonlight drive it. Almost always a certain kill on running targets, and if still alive, use the dagger throw XP.

 

Having cresent moon back ASAP also helps quicken long term battles, and even take down those who seemed invincible, like a priest that focus first on healing and then on attacking.

 

if you manage to take down half of their HP while they focus on attacking you, and you decide to drop them down, having them disabled of healing while you charge your burst moonlight drive for finisher almost always will make them fall, and on top of that you can add a dagger throw.

 

Cresent Moon also helps if you are planning to run away or buy time at the end of a round XP

 

Takes experience and time, its something you will find out yourself when you check it out, but let me tell you that if you are of the Beast Rogue Style, Cresent Moon lvl 4 just wont cut it.

[Elysion]

Well wait here. Are you saying you are making a rogue for colo? Dont. Reroll. Your rogue should be strong in pve, you can do with your remaining points what you want to try and make colo better for you. Poisoning weapon is very good in pve. Further, rogues dont really have much burst. Our largest single hit is just deadly blow, MD is useful in colo in some situations but its final hit is weaker than DP. I get many kills by snagging the last 100-200 damage. Rogues double attack, + auto attack, + poison ticing, ends up doing something like 3 hits per second, which makes it very good at snagging the final few points of damage. But anyway, having poisoning max is very good value for point for pve, keep that in mind.

[ZT0100]

Dagger throw + Dark Illusion is a great start burst damange that can be executed at an extreme minimum of 10m, however from personal experience I dont recomend it on laggy enviroments with complicated target locations as colo, since that will enhance the chances of the glitch hitting in.

 

Better do the Dark Illusion alone and if you didnt get the kill but target seems alive and a little away, just throw the dagger. I've got a few kills like that.

 

About Crecent Moon, it is an awesome skill to max if you are planning to jump into the fray once your hiddings ran out.

You just go, hit left and right, find a target with about 2/3 hp, charge your combo points with its blood, throw it down while it doesnt yet run away, get more points with dual stab and double attacks and when it gets up with its remaining hp, moonlight drive it. Almost always a certain kill on running targets, and if still alive, use the dagger throw XP.

 

Having cresent moon back ASAP also helps quicken long term battles, and even take down those who seemed invincible, like a priest that focus first on healing and then on attacking.

 

if you manage to take down half of their HP while they focus on attacking you, and you decide to drop them down, having them disabled of healing while you charge your burst moonlight drive for finisher almost always will make them fall, and on top of that you can add a dagger throw.

 

Cresent Moon also helps if you are planning to run away or buy time at the end of a round XP

 

Takes experience and time, its something you will find out yourself when you check it out, but let me tell you that if you are of the Beast Rogue Style, Cresent Moon lvl 4 just wont cut it.

 

I was planning not to get Moonlight Dance, until I read your post. Crescent Moon at level 1 should be enough because I think the points are better off elsewhere, like maxing Hide. I don't think a 1 on 1 fight with somebody is going to last 20 seconds for me to use another Crescent Moon anyway. Plus, 10 seconds less on the cooldown per level just don't sound very appealing to me. 60 seconds should be okay, as long as I time it wisely! Many thanks for the tactics, my friend! Now I am quite sure I know what I really want.
 

 

Well wait here. Are you saying you are making a rogue for colo? Dont. Reroll. Your rogue should be strong in pve, you can do with your remaining points what you want to try and make colo better for you. Poisoning weapon is very good in pve. Further, rogues dont really have much burst. Our largest single hit is just deadly blow, MD is useful in colo in some situations but its final hit is weaker than DP. I get many kills by snagging the last 100-200 damage. Rogues double attack, + auto attack, + poison ticing, ends up doing something like 3 hits per second, which makes it very good at snagging the final few points of damage. But anyway, having poisoning max is very good value for point for pve, keep that in mind.

That doesn't sound right... Smoke Bomb and Dirty Plan shouldn't even be maxed for PvE. It' either a PvE or PvP build. I think MD is really helpful. I recently had some duels with people and they ran away before I could finish them. If only I had MD to finish them off!   I probably would of maxed Weapon Poisoning if I had extra points, but sadly I need the points for MD. I appreciate your thoughts, though!

[Leinzan]

Well, Im the kind of Rogue that once all my hides are on cooldown I will jump into the fray and kill whatever gets in front of me, having my CM back at a time frame equal to MD has helped me out in infinite situations already, like fighting 3 sorcerers in a row (since it can cancel their current cast), beating down a long lived priest, or fighting a heated battle with a knight or a warrior (those guys are sturdy as hell).

 

MD on the other hand should be considered a quick DoT rather than a damange burst, since it can hit the target even when its away and it will strike completely and without fail if you dont die in the process, and by that I mean that it will keep hitting even if you were knocked down, frozen or snared, if you are stunned or killed the damange is canceled. Already tested it on a sin that took me down with his Shadow Assault, my MD connected first and kept hitting even tho I was laying down on the floor, and got the kill XP

 

Also since I reseted my skills for colo I no longer have MoD, so I use the SB in 3 main situations, 1st escaping a blue circle lock on target skill from the Boss and thus canceling the damange to me and my companions, 2nd double damange with MD, which on crit MD would do an x4 adding up a devastating 9~12k combo strike in the same 3.2 seconds, I cant see my DB doing 3k crits that often, and while in hide the most I've done with that for now is 4.7k. and 3rd to jump to help on mobs, sometimes a companion needs emergency help, and its far away, so I SB and DI just to Dual Stab and CM the target and build more threat on me so it will follow around and I just take it down right there and then or use GP to run away with it following me until a tank can take it.

 

Its a matter of tastes in the end, Rogues can be beasts at times, taking down 3~5 ppl that were attacking you at the same time before finally going down.

 

Good luck out there!!

[Chocs]

Lately I've been the type to ninja-kill people and stay in hide for most of Colosseum. It has gotten me to 5th round just with a few player kills (and two very close losses so far due to trivial matters) so I haven't really found a need for more CM. It has proven useful in critical moments though --

 

[...] 1st escaping a blue circle lock on target skill from the Boss and thus canceling the damange to me and my companions [...]

So you're saying that SB will cancel those targeted circle boss AoE? I've never tried thinking it will shove the target on someone else (heaven forbid, the Priest) or it will fire on the spot anyway, but if what you're saying is true...

 

Gonna try it when I have the chance 

[mysticalre]

So you're saying that SB will cancel those targeted circle boss AoE?

yep, no one in your party takes damage as well (i.e., you don't have to move away from melee range)

[Leinzan]

just dont cancel the hidding before the blue circle disappears tho!

[xxalucard]

my 2 cents:

 

crescent moon looks nice on paper (stun every 20 seconds!), but in reality you won't need it that often and if you DO happen to need it in an emergency you can dirty plan.

 

if you want to cancel a mage's cast you don't need crescent moon... just run through their character in random directions while spamming DA, and laugh as they struggle to hold right click and turn to correctly face you.

 

you shouldn't be targeting people (unless forced to) that are at a high enough HP where you'd want to stun them over going for the kill with DB or MD.  especially because that's just asking to get KS'd. (however i can see people doing this strategically if there's some amazing #1 sorc that's a threat for later rounds, and you just want him to die.)

 

IMO the main situation you want crescent moon is when your chased by an annoying knight or ranger who are trying to finish you off-- if only to keep running and buy yourself more time.

[Velouce]

Imho using DP for Crescent Moon is wasted, anyways, the only situation where you need a lvl 4 or even 5 Crescent Moon is if you're trying to kill annoying opponents in Colosseum. But like xxalucard said, this can be easily avoided and isn't necessary. Althought, it's true that there are often people who chase you from round 1 to x, and it's a pain if these are sorcs, priests or other kind of class who can kite you and heal themself. But then still, if the fight takes over 20~30seconds, it's not worth.

[Leinzan]

Well, max it or not is a thing of tastes in the end, to me it has worked wonders, to others, might just not be worth it.

 

However, there is a moment where CM is AMAZING no matter the level, and that is to take down that annoying self healing priest or sorcerer that is just waiting for you to die and is confident enought to keep hitting you even if you are hitting him/her with all you can...

 

Just let them laught at their superiority complex, build up a bit damange an as soon as this person reaches the 4~4.5k hp DROP HIM, time for you to laught at his struggle.

[Oreot]

Respecced my Rogue and just left it at one. Maxed Poisoning Weapon, Dark Illsuion, Dirty Plan, Smokebomb, and Hiding for PvP.

[Leinzan]

Quite nice!

Good luck at it!!