25 replies to this topic

[Cybermario]

Hello, recently changed to rogue and wonder what are the best skills i could use for PVE, sure i want colo weapon and gears but i enjoy pve over pvp, wonder if people can share some builds and suggestions, thanks!

Edited by Cybermario, 08 July 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[Velouce]

As for the questionable skills, I've written a very detailed guide here: http://forums.warppo...s-reconsidered/

 

Must-Have skills are:

 

Double Attack 5

Deadly Blow 5

Poisoning Weapon 1

Combo Mastery 3

Unstable Doping 5

Gangsters Paradise 3-5

Dirty Plan 1

 

If you're planning to get Moonlight Drive (reasons speaking against it are in my guide), I'd strongly suggest you to level Smoke Bomb at least to 1, if not max, since combining Combo Mastery with Smoke Bomb and MD is probably the only reason for bothering with using it.

 

Stats:

All into Str and Agi

I wouldn't bother with VIT. If you're struggling with your max HP, use VIT runes temporary.

Personally, I don't think it matters a lot how you place STR and Agi. Most people go 41/41, I went 49/31

I don't really know the breakpoint for when Crit becomes more important than STR, especially because it enormously depends on monster level and CoA has lvl53 + mobs, making crit fall once again (= making STR more solid)

[mysticalre]

x

Edited by mysticalre, 12 August 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Cybermario]

Thanks for the advice!

[ZT0100]

Never ever max Mark of Genocide. I think that's the best advice I can give to a rogue.

[mysticalre]

x

Edited by mysticalre, 12 August 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[ZT0100]

^ Well, I am not sure how Mark of Death works exactly(I leave it at 0), but I have heard people said either great things or horrible things about it. If it works the way I think it works(10% damage boost for everybody on a marked target), then it should be pretty useful. Since a critical hit is double the amount of a hit, I am just going to say you get 1-2 extra hit for every 100 hits you do for the MoG 1.6% crit rate. And, since MoD is a 10% boost, it means you get an extra hit for every 10 hits. Also, if your hit crits(which is pretty often with rogues) with MoD on, then you deal even greater damage. So, MoD should be better than MoG. Besides, most assassins max that skill so you might not even need to max it.

 

I don't really see why even bother putting 2 extra points in DP with your build. The best use for DP, in my opinion, is for reducing the huge cooldown on MoD or SB when you really need them. I think it's better to take a point off DP and take 4 points off MoG for MoD. Again, this is all theoretical. I have absolutely no idea how MoD works. If anything, I think you should max Smoke Bomb, Hide, or even Crescent Moon for utilitarian purposes.

 

http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

 

or even this.

http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

It's to bring out the true potential of Moonlight Dance since you maxed it. You can use 2 SB/MD+DP combo every 2 minutes. This build is also PvP-able.

 

In conclusion, you can get/max more useful skills if you left MoG at 1 because MoG's 1.6% is negligible.

Edited by ZT0100, 10 July 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[mysticalre]

x

Edited by mysticalre, 12 August 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Velouce]

Mark of Death doesn't increase everyones damage, only your own. Actually, it's a shame that this nerf was taken over from sea without ever questioning it. This skill should have been the only reason to bring a rogue to raid instead of another ranger. Instead, it's just another useless skill in our grid. Considering it can miss and it WILL miss especially in higher raids where mobs are higher than lvl50 (=lower hit), and that it takes more time than a double attack (it's not just the animation but the delay that makes you unable to attack, much like when using a Boost Pot), 5 points is a bad investment. If you have a fixed raid group with a second rogue, well maybe consider this skill. It might be a bit useful if yopu combine it in enraged phases or times battles with STR Boost and Guardian.

 

Smoke Bomb Level3 imho is a must-have skill if you spend 5 points in MD. The only reason to ever cast MD is to combine it with CM and Smoke Bomb (a normal MD has a higher chance to decrease your DPS than keeping it equal to simple DBs and DAs). The lower your SB cooldown, the more often you can use MD effective. The shadow side of this, you spend 8 skill points.

 

Genocide Mark is not becoming more effective with higher tier equipment. For once, higher gear adds more AGI and more crit, so the 1,6% are less and less noticable. Furthermore, the bonus decreases when fighting higher level monsters. I have 32,04% (34,04% with MoG) on level50 monsters, 30,49% on level51. And the higher the level difference, the more % you lose per level. Against a lvl53 opponent, those 4 points in MoG probably wont even add 1% crit.

 

All together, you can consider all 3 of these as pretty useless skills, and you shouldn't worry too much about where to spend your last points. You could as well bring Cross Impact into the discussion. I mean, as long as you get the must-have skills, not much you can do wrong. If you want to do Colosseum at least a bit for the gear, focus your last skill points on stuff you need there (like maxing DI).

[KIyde]

Hums, oddly enough I tested MoD on Scarecrows and through my numbers I always get higher DPS with MoD active. Also, after dealing with Raid-wiping timers such as Ratmaster, I found it useful, as I mentioned it before combo-ing it with Boost Pots/Doping.

 

Same goes with MD, my Deadly Blow Crit has never done more damage than my MD end-hit Crit. Then again my Critical is at a solid 50% and I have 103% Hit so maybe that's why.

 

And Genocide Mark in reality is good gesture, mostly for raid groups...

 

Hums, I'd like to party with you guys or at least duel since I'm interested how your builds work. Even though in terms of gear, I'd probably lose since I don't use Colo gear other than weapons and accessories haha.

[Velouce]

Also, after dealing with Raid-wiping timers such as Ratmaster, I found it useful, as I mentioned it before combo-ing it with Boost Pots/Doping.

That's what I just said. Combining it with Boost Pots and Guardian might be a reason to use it. But without that, I'm not even sure if the time you spend on casting it will result in a big DPS bonus. MoD has a weird delay after using it, same occurs for Boost Pots and Guardian activation. I mean, you easily lose out on 1~2DAs, which have to be balanced out with the 10% damage bonus in those 30 seconds before you can speak of a gain in DPS. Imho this skill simply isn't made for how it's working in sea and our version.

 

About MD: With 5 Combo Points at the start, casting MD deals the same damage as DB followed by 2 DAs (60% for the DB, 2x 25% for the DAs), and takes the same time. The differences are, you have at least 2 Combo Points after the 2 DAs, and 3 times the chance to proc CM, Deadly Poison and the 20% crit/str buff. Also, you can move, unless you abuse the bugs in this game for MD.

 

We can raid if you want, but I doubt I can keep up with your DPS because of the HIT% difference. Probably the only reason to use CoA gear over Colo Gear, because I miss like I was blind in CoA. More interesting would be to see how DPS changes through the different stats. The real damage difference should come from balancing Crit and Attack (or Agi and Str). I have no idea if I'd be better off sacrificing some STR for AGI, but to analyze this we'd probably need closer comparable gears aswell.

[mysticalre]

Hums, oddly enough I tested MoD on Scarecrows and through my numbers I always get higher DPS with MoD active. Also, after dealing with Raid-wiping timers such as Ratmaster, I found it useful, as I mentioned it before combo-ing it with Boost Pots/Doping.

maaan thanks for making me doubt MoD for the 50th time, looks like its back to scarecrows for me

 

K BRB will update later

[mysticalre]

OK DOUBLE POST FOR BUMP

 

so I re-did the tests, not believing my old tests, and it's the same thing over again. I tried to make my damage as consistent as possible, removing as much RNG as I can

 

My stats (if anyone tries to re-do)

http://i.imgur.com/iaItrld.jpg // 2094 ATK, 40.27 crit unbuffed

 

Rotation

- Double attacks till 5/5, then deadly blow

- deadly blow any time combo master procs

 

Rules

1. Use Explorer's Concentration (+7% hit so that you never miss)

2. Poisoning weapon / Crit buff only

3. NO Doping (+20% ATK/+20% crit is a huge inconsistency)

4. ONE AGI Boost potion allowed per 5minute test (to help MoD damage)

5. Use http://www.online-stopwatch.com/ to countdown 5 minutes per test

6. Screenshot when you hear the annoying ring after 5 minutes

 

Results

1. No Mark of Death

- http://i.imgur.com/ybMEYbT.jpg (363,980 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/E5hmkPy.jpg (364,827 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/V4ibYgH.jpg (372,515 Damage)

 

Average: 367,107 Damage

 

2. Mark of Death (5/5)

- http://i.imgur.com/AhvG1wJ.jpg (369,345 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/BVDcoN0.jpg (359,885 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/qOqOoSu.jpg (353,451 Damage)

 

Average: 360,893 Damage

 

I'm willing to say that this is basically the same, it could be just +/- 2 crits of a difference. If anyone else wants to re-confirm, feel free. It's totally lame and counter-intuitive to think that +10% damage doesn't help ...

 

This is NOT the first time I tried this - I did this before a few times, and it's always roughly the same, I did it over 10 minute periods too, so I really don't know what else to say. I like this skill, but every time I try it results say otherwise

 

The only thing I can 100% say is that with 2 rogues, it's a benefit if both have it

Edited by mysticalre, 13 August 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[Velouce]

I'm pretty sure it's like I said before, you miss out on the attack(s) that would have been used instead of casting MoD. I can't test how long it takes to cast MoD because I don't have a skill point in it right now. But I remember it was not just the animation time but also after that a ~1sec delay that I couldn't attack again for. So considering you miss out on 1-2 DAs by using MoD, you already would need 10-20 DAs during MoD to reach up to the damage you would have dealed without it (10% per attack = one time the full damage of DA extra in 10 hits). Of course, we don't use only DA but it would make this calculation too complex.

 

For the same reason btw, I don't know if adding STR/AGI Boost and Guardian would make it any better, because both have a huge animation time/delay, you'd miss out on another 1-2 seconds for each of these, missing out on even more possible attacks in the meantime.

 

Btw, why you guys having so much crit? I mean, I have 32% unbuffed but a full Colosseum Set. Did you use Agi runes or something?

 

 

BTW mind if I quote your post in my guide?

Edited by Velouce, 11 July 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[archedemon]

There's inconsistencies with Deadly Blow's damage. Best to test solely with a base attack first, and then Double Attack due to Deadly Blows inconsistencies and wider damage range, along with the inconsistent times that Combo Mastery procs.

The inconsistency with Combo Mastery really hurts because, I've had it pop up back to back 4 times, and other times, I'd be lucky to see 2 or 3 spaced apart during a fight, for several fights. So you shouldn't test with it. I think it's a better way to get the raw damage, without. Right now there's too many variables with Critical Procs, Combo Mastery procs, and the effect from current base stats added with stats from gear plus range damage from combo finishers versus critical proc finishers. There is a lot going on here that could change the marks.

You would think that with MoD you would see a significantly higher mark regardless though, based off from those stats, but that really depends on proc rate and time consumption.

I'm curious what MoD would do with UD's buffs, though. I should say how well they would preform together.
Testing MoD with UD's Att buff and with the Crit buff and then without MoD.

If MoD really does increase your damage, with either of UD's procs, you should see an increasingly higher output of damage, which is where your real damage would theoretically shine, otherwise MoD is just a broken skill.

Edited by archedemon, 11 July 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[mysticalre]

x

Edited by mysticalre, 12 August 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Velouce]

It would be interesting to test this out with you, althought you'd have to take off these costumes for accurate numbers lol.

I have 49Str/34 Agi and added STR Runes into all my gear parts. It really bothers me if AGI would be the better choice by now.

[Leinzan]

CM + SB + MD requires the UD Crit boost for a real use , and with the rarity of both Crit UD + CM happening, and the animation times of SB + MD + DP if you have it at hand to repeat this process... makes in total a very doubtful result of about 9k max crit dmg with RHD gears and Desperate Apostle Dual Dagger in an aprox total of 6.2 seconds. 4.2 without DP.

 

Add the fact that walking MD is fixed, so MD has lost yet another point on my ranks, actually, I doubt I'll need it anymore...

 

But truth be told, the +10% extra from MoD really feels useful... when you have a Rogue companion, I've used it alone and I've seen the boost, is quite cool, it feels cool, but is actually a deciving scam... you guys already mentioned it, casting it makes you lose 1 or 2 DAs, which is a whole 1 or 2 hits you must recover in 30 seconds (which means you must connect 10 to 20 extra non-parried DA within those 30 seconds before actually gaining damange), and even more if you cast DP right after for another MoD when its over... hence adding up on the losing side.

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the animation time of Rolling Cutter? Or if it can be casted while moving without stopping you?

[mysticalre]

It would be interesting to test this out with you, althought you'd have to take off these costumes for accurate numbers lol.

I have 49Str/34 Agi and added STR Runes into all my gear parts. It really bothers me if AGI would be the better choice by now.

sure, just lemme know in-game and we can go try it

[KIyde]

OK DOUBLE POST FOR BUMP

 

so I re-did the tests, not believing my old tests, and it's the same thing over again. I tried to make my damage as consistent as possible, removing as much RNG as I can

 

My stats (if anyone tries to re-do)

http://i.imgur.com/iaItrld.jpg // 2094 ATK, 40.27 crit unbuffed

 

Rotation

- Double attacks till 5/5, then deadly blow

- deadly blow any time combo master procs

 

Rules

1. Use Explorer's Concentration (+7% hit so that you never miss)

2. Poisoning weapon / Crit buff only

3. NO Doping (+20% ATK/+20% crit is a huge inconsistency)

4. ONE AGI Boost potion allowed per 5minute test (to help MoD damage)

5. Use http://www.online-stopwatch.com/ to countdown 5 minutes per test

6. Screenshot when you hear the annoying ring after 5 minutes

 

Results

1. No Mark of Death

- http://i.imgur.com/ybMEYbT.jpg (363,980 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/E5hmkPy.jpg (364,827 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/V4ibYgH.jpg (372,515 Damage)

 

Average: 367,107 Damage

 

2. Mark of Death (5/5)

- http://i.imgur.com/AhvG1wJ.jpg (369,345 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/BVDcoN0.jpg (359,885 Damage)

- http://i.imgur.com/qOqOoSu.jpg (353,451 Damage)

 

Average: 360,893 Damage

 

I'm willing to say that this is basically the same, it could be just +/- 2 crits of a difference. If anyone else wants to re-confirm, feel free. It's totally lame and counter-intuitive to think that +10% damage doesn't help ...

 

This is NOT the first time I tried this - I did this before a few times, and it's always roughly the same, I did it over 10 minute periods too, so I really don't know what else to say. I like this skill, but every time I try it results say otherwise

 

The only thing I can 100% say is that with 2 rogues, it's a benefit if both have it

 

Hmm, that's odd.

 

Well, this might be a -small- change but maybe but its possible that it might because you're not using Adrenaline Rush? I think the 10% scaling damage would be a lot more noticeable if you were at 'full power' since, percentage of damage scales with greater output. Also I don't use Agi Boost potions, I use Str ones.

 

I will test this out as well tonight and will post my results using Moonlight Dance (5/5) and Dual Stab (1/5).

[Leinzan]

Try it out with only normal attacks and the lowest crit rate you can muster!!

That should bring it up to a more legit result

[mysticalre]

x

Edited by mysticalre, 12 August 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[mysticalre]

 

Hmm, that's odd.

 

Well, this might be a -small- change but maybe but its possible that it might because you're not using Adrenaline Rush? I think the 10% scaling damage would be a lot more noticeable if you were at 'full power' since, percentage of damage scales with greater output. Also I don't use Agi Boost potions, I use Str ones.

 

I will test this out as well tonight and will post my results using Moonlight Dance (5/5) and Dual Stab (1/5).

 

I'm curious how it turns out for you

 

bump what a slacker, would be nice if another rogue tried this out!

[KIyde]

bump what a slacker, would be nice if another rogue tried this out!

 

lmao sorry, since WoE started I don't have MoD anymore, I forgot to post here! my apologies

[RORose]

http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0