47 replies to this topic

[Havenn]

Okay, test this. Just lost my drops from amon ra 2x

 

 

Amon Ra

 

Spawns 1,009,000 HP, I am first hit for 190k

 

Sura Gfists for 375k

 

2 more bombs 190-200k and it dies.

 

 

I lost loots x2

 

I was MVP x2 (though that isn't the important part)

 

the Sura was not first hit, so their Gfist counts for the 375k. not 750k.

 

 

 

This also wasted 5 minutes of my HE gum.

Edited by Havenn, 19 July 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[DrAzzy]

Okay, test this. Just lost my drops from amon ra 2x

 

 

Amon Ra

 

Spawns 1,009,000 HP, I am first hit for 190k

 

Sura Gfists for 375k

 

2 more bombs 190-200k and it dies.

 

 

I lost loots x2

 

I was MVP x2 (though that isn't the important part)

 

the Sura was not first hit, so their Gfist counts for the 375k. not 750k.

 

 

 

This also wasted 5 minutes of my HE gum.

 

Were you controlling both characters and thus able to verify everything happening (that they didn't get any hits off on MVP which you didn't see or anything else)? 

 

How close was the timing of the bomb and fist? You know how sometimes the damage numbers show before or after the damage actually gets dealt - maybe this is causing you to think you got first hit when actually got first hit, and your numbers just showed first.

 

Also, something's suspect about your data:

200*3 + 375 = 975k, that's 34k hp short of killing it - where'd that extra damage come from?

 

Can you post the replay file of this event?

[Havenn]

Was not controlling both players, though I can guarentee my load bar for bomb finished and damage displayed before the sura's fist load finished and shows the damage, I would say 0.5 sec between my bomb and the fist. My bombs do roughly 190-225k so the extra damage was in some of those bombs.

 

Went to record this next kill, the sura was not present this time. Will record if they come back.

 

 

[Havenn]

I have a theory......let me know if I am insane

 

Acid Bomb hits for 10 Hits, adding up to one total damage. 

 

Is this not counted as 'first' hit until the 10th hit has finished and the full damage displayed in yellow?

 

It seems that each time I lose drops to the Sura who camps Amon Ra with me, she will get the drops if her fist hit's during the rolling damage of Acid Bomb. Though will not get the drops if her Fist lands as my final damage displays in yellow.

 

 

 

Example:

 

 

Bomb hits

 

20k-20k-20k-20k (375kFIST Hits) 20k- 20k-20k-20k-20k-20k - Drops go to Sura, even though, they're technically the 5th hit, and not doing enough to achieve MVP.

 

20k-20k-20k-20k-20k- 20k-20k-20k-20k (375kFIST Hits) 20k - Seems to still go to Sura

 

20k-20k-20k-20k - 20k- 20k-20k-20k-20k-20k (375kFIST Hits) - Drops go to me, since my damage was completed

 

 

 

Now that me and this Sura are on good terms, I'll try to plan a video to capture it.

[Havenn]

Okay, again, a genetic cast normal Bomb on Amon Ra spawn point. Hits for 40k damage as first hit, my bombs hit for 225k, his for 120k. I am the MVP, I do not know when someone is going to bug my drops and I always use HE gum for amon ra so I log in and out, I will only remain logged in to wait for the spwn if it is less than 2 mins away, like it was this time. I am not going to hit record every 30 seconds when I log in to check the spawn and only have a few seconds to get my kill normally.

 

This needs to be tested further using the situation described above and  the situation with Gfist. I am losing a ton of gum time and items. don't do 1 melee then kill it and say it's working...Making a genetic that can hit so hard took a lot of time, and losing my drops to people doing half my damage is getting irritating, especially when time and time again, I am the MVP and their initial hit was nowhere close to get priority.

 

Maybe I can ask people nicely when they plan to bug the drops so I can film it, but otherwise, about 6 bugged drops in 2 days is really getting to me.

Edited by Havenn, 23 July 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[SergioSSA1LER]

Ok, I'm the one who "stole" your mvp, yes you hit far more than me, but i do know how the drops work, its not my fault that you dont.
Also, I found this post cus you said bugging mvp drops, i freaked out that something as that could possible happen, now i understand what happened:
>I always use bomb to get rid of the lex aeterna that some suras use with an ab slave. And to get the first hit.
>It also gets me an advantage on the drops priority.

120k x 2 = 240k
240k > 225k

 

[Havenn]

Correct behavior is for drop priority to be assigned normally, that is, priority is awarded to whoever DID THE MOST DAMAGE, with damage dealt by the first player to hit it counted double. The player who gets the MVP award has no special entitlement to the drops.

 

So dealing 1 damage should not be enough - the first player should have to deal about 1/3rd of the MVP's hp in damage in order to have drop priority. 

 

I know back in the day it worked like I describe above. If it's now assigning drop priority to someone who did ANY damage first, I would classify that as a fairly serious bug. Are you certain that your tests rule out the influence of any third parties? Have you tested the behavior of normal monsters?

 

If what you say is true, Sergio, then the previously discussed priority is false.

 

Can a GM clear up exactly how priority works?

Edited by Havenn, 23 July 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[SergioSSA1LER]

we can test it out the next hour if you like. Maybe im wrong, maybe you are wrong, maybe we are all wrong, but it would be nice to clarify this whole confusion. Also, you hit 3 bombs, i also hit 3 bombs + the normal bomb.

[Havenn]

If your normal bomb hit as first hit, your first blow wouldn't count for 240k, maybe 80k since bomb is much weaker than Acid bomb. I am not sure how to test yet since I have no idea how it even works at this point

 

It would also make sense that we landed 3 each and the initial bomb.

 

Initial bomb (40k) My 3 bombs (roughly 630k) Your 3 Bombs (roughly 360k) add's up to almost exactly his HP.

 

soooo, even furthers my confusion lol

Edited by Havenn, 23 July 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[SergioSSA1LER]

No, the first hit essentially gets all of their subsequent hits to count for double.

 

So what could possibly be happening is that someone is getting a GFist off for say... 500k and then someone else is doing 900k damage after the Sura gets the first hit. The Sura is still going to get loot if they hit the MVP first.

This is how i remember it works

We can test it out like this:
>I cast bomb on amon ra
>I get the first hit
>I wont do anything else
>You finish with Amon-RA
>I try to get the loot

If i cant get it, you are wrong and this whole post is pointless
If i can get it, there is in fact a bug

[Havenn]

That is not a successful test as it does not replicate the issue, just once again clarifies that an initial weak hit is not enough to achieve drop priority.

 

 

We need an explanation as to why 400k damage gets priority over 600k+ when the initial hit is not for 1/3 of the MVPs full HP.

 

Edited by Havenn, 23 July 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[SergioSSA1LER]

That is not a successful test as it does not replicate the issue, just once again clarifies that an initial weak hit is not enough to achieve drop priority.

Ehh... then for what are you fighting for? I don't get the concern then ._.
I thought that you were reclaiming that whoever did the first hit and did nothing else got the drop.

[Havenn]

That was the initial thought, though it was proven that's not the case. Then the 1/3 full hp first hit was on the table, but that's not the case, fighting to figure out exactly how drops work so I can stop trying to get MVP w/o the loot

[Iinker]

You don't have to do 1/3rd of the full hp in 1 hit on first hit, just have to to do 1/3rd of full hp before it dies. Sergio probably threw a bomb on Amon Ra's spawn point to get first hit and then threw 3 acid bombs to get drop priority.

[SergioSSA1LER]

it isnt just the first hit, read correctly, if you hit the first hit, every hit, will count as double.

[Havenn]

Now I see, that is kind of bananas it would work like that....welp, gunna change my tactics now

 

 

Still need clarification on AB though, is it not counted as a 'Hit' until the 10th hit and final damage display?

Edited by Havenn, 23 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Ralis]

Acid Bomb should count as a hit as soon as you finish casting it. Look at your battle log -- the message of how much damage you did appears right away, not after all the hits have finished.

[DrAzzy]

I don't think the chat window can be trusted to tell you when the damage "hits" - only when the damage displays.

 

This should be tested in PVP by casting it on one account, and watching when the HP bar on the target drops. I wouldn't be surprised if ASPD was involved, so test unarmed and unshilded with agi/aspd gear and aspd pot on vs with shield + weapon with PK up and no aspd pots. 

[Ralis]

It's as soon as you finish casting. The entire HP amount is reduced right away, it doesn't come in waves or after all numbers have appeared. You can also tell this by just watching when players / monsters die... The "damage" of Acid Bomb continues to stack up after the death animation has already occurred, so the damage occurs all at once as soon as casting is done.

[Iinker]

Does being damaged by the monster also count as first hit? If it does that'd explain the situation with the sura. If it doesn't count then the sura most likely did a normal attack before gfist.

[Ralis]

Nope, but being damaged by the monster helps towards MVP priority.

[michaeleeli]

Yeah I can confirm that the damage is always applied immediately after the cast (when your character cast animation just begins)

But, knowing its RO, things could always be absurd. Could the priority points be actually counted from the yellow numbers rather than the damage? Does anyone know how its exactly scripted?

Edited by michaeleeli, 23 July 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[Ralis]

I doubt the programmers went through the trouble of doing something extra like that. =P